fe8 Tier List & Discussion

[MacLovin]

Standard rules, free Tethys/Lords/Orson/Myyrh

One list, assuming free route choice

Units are tiered on their best routes

Rape-Train

1st round

Franz

NEssie

Artur

Tana

2nd round

Garcia

Saleh

Lute

Ross

3rd round

Gilliam

Cormag

Moulder

Colm

4th round

NAtasha

Forde

Gerik

Kyle

5th Round

Neimi

Duessel

Amelia

Innes

6th Round

Joshua

Syrene

Knoll

Ewan

7th

L'Arachel

Crash ()

Rennac

Fails at everything

MArisa

Edited August 9, 2012 by The Gentleman

[eclipse]

How is Eirika's Rennac worse than Ewan?

[MacLovin]

Ewan has the tower, and current rules allow him to get to 10/5 in tower.

Rennac has.............theiving?

Shitty combat, shitty defense, alright res, bleh HP.

His only thing is theiving, at the 2nd half of th egame.

Ewans got MK, and can torch in 'dat Rausten chapter, and assist in routes and that *****ing Gorgon egg chapter.

[Toothache]

Saleh comes in with C Staves, requiring 110 Wexp to get up to Warp use. Most of the spammable heal staves give 3 Wexp each (Heal is 2), barrier is 4. Given this, you'd need to have Saleh use healing staves across at most 37 turns without dances, assuming he had units to heal on every turn.

So basically, it's not a question of IF Saleh can get Warp, it's WHEN he gets it. Which chapters benefit the most from Warp use, and can Saleh achieve the staff rank in time to use it there? Establish this, and you can determine whether Saleh's potential for Warp is much of a benefit or a waste of time, especially if his combat would benefit instead.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Toothache

[MacLovin]

Ephraim Route!Saleh also helps prevent Eirika from dying in the desert, and adds to the routing.

[eclipse]

Rennac has Chapter 15 combat (which he's not that bad at), as well as lighting up Riev in Chapter 19. He can also disable traps in Chapter 18.

[MacLovin]

Ch15-Ewan can do it too, considering his promo paths.

ch18-Possible Mount VS Disabling traps...hmn

ch19-MK!Ewan can torch

Rennac with good combat....

lol.

11 base strength, 17 base speed, and shitty defense+ a good chance of being critblicked.

At least Dozla has 1-2 range and terrainwalk and some durability. Moulder gets availibility, 1-2 range, staves and slayer.

Not seeing Rennac outdo Ewan.

Edited August 9, 2012 by The Gentleman

[charlie_]

Just merge it to one general list, most drafts let you choose anyway.

Gerik is stupidly high, he's decent but he isn't that amazing. Gilliam is WAY too low, he should be wherr Gerik is now IMO

Also, seeing how this is a draft tier list, how about you organize it like this?

[b]1st round[/b]
Vanessa
Franz
Artur
Tana

[b]2nd round[/b]
Garcia
Saleh
Gilliam
Cormag

For example.

[eclipse]

Or, you can give Rennac a Torch (completely uncontested), and have him do the work. Also, tell me how Ewan fares against the mercs near Jehanna, because that's my use for Rennac (and as a bonus, he can pick up Warp, since he's in the area).

EDIT: Forgot about item trawling in the desert without a combat penalty.

Edited August 9, 2012 by eclipse

[charlie_]

Ewan is damn effective against the peg reinforcements in Eirika route, has unrestricted move in the desert if you haven't promoted him yet. He has 1-2 range and 7 move upon promo too. He also gets D staves so he can torch just like Rennac can.

[MacLovin]

Just merge it to one general list, most drafts let you choose anyway.

Gerik is stupidly high, he's decent but he isn't that amazing. Gilliam is WAY too low, he should be wherr Gerik is now IMO

Also, seeing how this is a draft tier list, how about you organize it like this?

[b]1st round[/b]
Vanessa
Franz
Artur
Tana

[b]2nd round[/b]
Garcia
Saleh
Gilliam
Cormag

For example.

Gilliams decent, but his 3 base speed kills his earlygame a bit.

I guess if paired with Nessie/Garcia/Artur, he's good.

Rising.

Also Rennac isn't the best at surviving that section, since the crit rates exist, and he's got B swords as well as the possibility of not doubling.

[eclipse]

Ewan's Chapter 15 options look like the following:

1. Stay unpromoted and pick off reinforcements. He's looking at 2-3HKO (if he wanders into range with anything with the words "Steel Lance" he's in trouble), and will be 3HKOing pegasi in return. I think he doubles them?

2. Promote, which means he's no longer auto-2HKO'd by Steel Lance pegasi, but he sacrifices his movement. Going down south is a death sentence; way too many things can eat him for breakfast.

Rennac, when I draft him, makes a beeline to the mercs - his crit chances seem to be a whopping 2%, and he doubles the slower ones. The axe guys have low to LOL hit rates on him, and the mages can be mitigated by a Pure Water. Thanks to Jehanna's shop, I can purchase Killing Edges, which he uses to good effect on this map (someone else can inherit them later). Lastly, he can jack the Hoplon Guard, get Warp, and survive one hit from Ugly, assuming he's at full health.

EDIT: With that setup, the only thing that he doesn't double are the Iron Sword myrms, who are not exactly a huge threat at that point.

Edited August 9, 2012 by eclipse

[Aere]

There is no way that Gilliam or Colm can save more turns than Gerik.

[MacLovin]

There is no way that Gilliam or Colm can save more turns than Gerik.

Colm gets more Statboosters, namely the energy ring.

Gilliam, I guess he's decent as a GK and helps out early on.

Oh, and growing into a clone of Duessel-minus the A ranks in all weapons.

[charlie_]

Gilliam insta promotes at chapter 8, and can ferry Eirika for a while. He's unkillable outside of magic and has full WTA, gets Garm for his speed (steel axes buff his ranks really quickly) and already has access to Silver Lances. Gerik isn't tha great in my experience.

Colm grabs a whip for nessie, the angelic robe, an energy ring and some other goodies like Pure waters. Although I'd say he's about equal to Gerik.

[PKL]

Ewan's Chapter 15 options look like the following:

1. Stay unpromoted and pick off reinforcements. He's looking at 2-3HKO (if he wanders into range with anything with the words "Steel Lance" he's in trouble), and will be 3HKOing pegasi in return. I think he doubles them?

2. Promote, which means he's no longer auto-2HKO'd by Steel Lance pegasi, but he sacrifices his movement. Going down south is a death sentence; way too many things can eat him for breakfast.

Rennac, when I draft him, makes a beeline to the mercs - his crit chances seem to be a whopping 2%, and he doubles the slower ones. The axe guys have low to LOL hit rates on him, and the mages can be mitigated by a Pure Water. Thanks to Jehanna's shop, I can purchase Killing Edges, which he uses to good effect on this map (someone else can inherit them later). Lastly, he can jack the Hoplon Guard, get Warp, and survive one hit from Ugly, assuming he's at full health.

EDIT: With that setup, the only thing that he doesn't double are the Iron Sword myrms, who are not exactly a huge threat at that point.

With the 10/5 rule, Ewan can promote by then, very easily. Ive dropped Mage Knight Ewan in a forest south of there and he ORKO'd everything except the ranger and was facing between 10-20% display hits. He's > Rennac in my experience.

[PKL]

Standard rules, free Tethys/Lords/Orson/Myyrh

One list, assuming free route choice

Units are tiered on their best routes

Rape-Train

1st round

Franz

NEssie

Artur

Tana

2nd

Garcia

Saleh

Lute

Ross

Forde

Gilliam (definetely better than forde and ross, not sure about lute) Kyle and Forde are not worthy of 2nd pick and kyle and forde are pretty much the same so they should be slashed)

Cormag

Kyle

3rd

Moulder this is just pure bias in your part. He should be a bit lower.

Colm When paired with vanessa, hes amazing, but idk if he needs to rise yet

Gerik

Natasha better than moulder in my experience unless its ephraim route, but this list is assuming best route...so

Neimi please dont tell me shes this high

Duessel

Lower Mid

Amelia

Syrene

Knoll

4th

Dozla

Ewan

Late

L'Arachel

Rennac

Fails at everything

MArisa

Should Joshua rise, and what about Ephraim ROute Saleh?

Pretty sure he could get to Warp as well.

The tier list is a mess btw...

[charlie_]

Only Creeper forgets units on his list.

Joshua and someone else is missing.

[Anouleth]

Gilliam insta promotes at chapter 8, and can ferry Eirika for a while. He's unkillable outside of magic and has full WTA, gets Garm for his speed (steel axes buff his ranks really quickly) and already has access to Silver Lances. Gerik isn't tha great in my experience.

The problem is that many times, Gilliam instapromoting comes at a high cost. If Franz, or Forde, or Kyle are in play, there's a heavy opportunity cost associated with the Knight Crest. certainly I wouldn't say he's doing anything special with it in chapters 8-10. After all, any of Franz, Forde, Kyle, Vanessa, or even Colm, Lute, Neimi and Artur can also "ferry" Eirika just as well or better than Gilliam.

Plus, why can't Gerik ferry Eirika? Gerik has better movement than Gilliam, if you forgot.

[eclipse]

With the 10/5 rule, Ewan can promote by then, very easily. Ive dropped Mage Knight Ewan in a forest south of there and he ORKO'd everything except the ranger and was facing between 10-20% display hits. He's > Rennac in my experience.

Assuming an average 10/10/1 Ewan, he's looking at 28% hit by the cavs on a fort/forest, 20-30% by the Wyvern Riders, and 40-somethingish hit by the Rangers/Paladin. The problem is that the higher hit rate stuff are the ones he can't afford to be hit by - one hit from the Paladin guarantees he dies if anything else connects, and he's not in a good situation if either Ranger hit connects. Thanks to his horrid Defenses, he'll attract all the physical attention. If you fail to block both forts, you'll also have to deal with reinforcements - not that they're anything stellar, but they still have a nonzero chance of hitting.

Rennac, on the other hand, is 3HKO'd at absolute minimum - park him in a forest, and he's got exactly one less Avoid than the Ewan above. He's also looking at five starting enemies that can actually do something to him, at most - thanks to WTA, the axe guys are down to hit rates lower than the age of most people on these forums (or 0, in the case of the Hammer guy), and a single Pure Water usage turns the mages into chip/tink damage. The most worrisome units don't appear until turn 3 at earliest - but they still 3HKO.

[MacLovin]

The problem is that many times, Gilliam instapromoting comes at a high cost. If Franz, or Forde, or Kyle are in play, there's a heavy opportunity cost associated with the Knight Crest. certainly I wouldn't say he's doing anything special with it in chapters 8-10. After all, any of Franz, Forde, Kyle, Vanessa, or even Colm, Lute, Neimi and Artur can also "ferry" Eirika just as well or better than Gilliam.

Plus, why can't Gerik ferry Eirika? Gerik has better movement than Gilliam, if you forgot.

1-Gilliam is often paired with Nessie/Garcia/Artur for earlygame backup.

2-Kyle/Forde don't have move problems and can take the second crest

3-HEro!Gerik is assumed 99% of the time.

Gilliam needs the GK promo to be useable past route split, Forde/Kyle can ferrybot and get around lvl 17-20 by the second crest.

Assuming an average 10/10/1 Ewan, he's looking at 28% hit by the cavs on a fort/forest, 20-30% by the Wyvern Riders, and 40-somethingish hit by the Rangers/Paladin. The problem is that the higher hit rate stuff are the ones he can't afford to be hit by - one hit from the Paladin guarantees he dies if anything else connects, and he's not in a good situation if either Ranger hit connects. Thanks to his horrid Defenses, he'll attract all the physical attention. If you fail to block both forts, you'll also have to deal with reinforcements - not that they're anything stellar, but they still have a nonzero chance of hitting.

Rennac, on the other hand, is 3HKO'd at absolute minimum - park him in a forest, and he's got exactly one less Avoid than the Ewan above. He's also looking at five starting enemies that can actually do something to him, at most - thanks to WTA, the axe guys are down to hit rates lower than the age of most people on these forums (or 0, in the case of the Hammer guy), and a single Pure Water usage turns the mages into chip/tink damage. The most worrisome units don't appear until turn 3 at earliest - but they still 3HKO.

PKL can take this one.

[Anouleth]

2-Kyle/Forde don't have move problems and can take the second crest

Oh, okay, Gilliam has shitty move, so he gets the Crest for free? I am not saying that Forde/Kyle should necessarily be priority over Gilliam, only that by depriving us of a badass Paladin, he is incurring a heavy opportunity cost that Gerik does not incur.

3-HEro!Gerik is assumed 99% of the time.

Hero Gerik has better move than Gilliam.

Gilliam needs the GK promo to be useable past route split, Forde/Kyle can ferrybot and get around lvl 17-20 by the second crest.

Good for them, but it's still an opportunity cost.

[MacLovin]

Oh, okay, Gilliam has shitty move, so he gets the Crest for free? I am not saying that Forde/Kyle should necessarily be priority over Gilliam, only that by depriving us of a badass Paladin, he is incurring a heavy opportunity cost that Gerik does not incur.

Hero Gerik has better move than Gilliam.

Good for them, but it's still an opportunity cost.

Uh, more along the lines of mediocre.

I can't really argue for them anymore, since I've been shot down too many times in IP chat.

[charlie_]

Hero has the same movement as great knight. Kyle/Forde generally have mediocre stats if promoted around then, so Gilliam is a better candidiate for the crest. Franz obviously moreso but Gilliam is more useful for a team with a weak earlygame which Franz stomps.

[PKL]

Assuming an average 10/10/1 Ewan, he's looking at 28% hit by the cavs on a fort/forest, 20-30% by the Wyvern Riders, and 40-somethingish hit by the Rangers/Paladin. The problem is that the higher hit rate stuff are the ones he can't afford to be hit by - one hit from the Paladin guarantees he dies if anything else connects, and he's not in a good situation if either Ranger hit connects. Thanks to his horrid Defenses, he'll attract all the physical attention. If you fail to block both forts, you'll also have to deal with reinforcements - not that they're anything stellar, but they still have a nonzero chance of hitting.

Rennac, on the other hand, is 3HKO'd at absolute minimum - park him in a forest, and he's got exactly one less Avoid than the Ewan above. He's also looking at five starting enemies that can actually do something to him, at most - thanks to WTA, the axe guys are down to hit rates lower than the age of most people on these forums (or 0, in the case of the Hammer guy), and a single Pure Water usage turns the mages into chip/tink damage. The most worrisome units don't appear until turn 3 at earliest - but they still 3HKO.

Dropping a Mage Knight Ewan down south so he can kill enemies with 1-2 range is something Rennac cant do though. Rennac never has good 1-2 range so even if he can tank mages, hes going to have to pick them off 1 by 1 in PP, costing turns possibly. Ive used both and while Rennac @ Kiling Edge is certainly nice ocasionally in player phase, he tended to be lackluster aside from the desert. Disarming traps is something that pales in comparison (and is rarely useful when you can just warp units up and skip them completely) to taking down eggs in that chapter with higher move. Lets not forget he has canto and can ferry stuff. And can have access to excalibur. Also, 10/13/1 Ewan is a better estimate for desert, considering he gets free training in chapter 14 getting the energy ring. Ewan @ pure water and a chest key can grab it without any problems whatsoever in a reasonable timeframe and he gets a bunch of CEXP there. If Ewan isnt being dropped south, he can take care of the pegs by sitting on a forest and they will have trouble even hitting him. Thanks to his 1-2 range, he can help speed up the chapter that way too.

So, Ewan can get an Energy Ring. Has 1-2 range so superior enemy phase offense despite his defenses and can contribute in better ways in chapter 18. How is Rennac > Ewan?

Edited August 9, 2012 by Ghost Marcia Drafter