fe8 Tier List & Discussion

[General Horace]

joshua's best moment is in chapter 9. he's actually one of the best units to take on the top left reinforcements

aside from that he's pretty useless though.

I guess he can tangle with Tirado in a pinch too, if Eirika is OHKO'd and you have nobody better i guess.

and what's this bullshit about ewan getting credit for bringing an energy ring, or getting the chapter 14 one if that's what you're talking about? that's absurd.

[PKL]

joshua's best moment is in chapter 9. he's actually one of the best units to take on the top left reinforcements

aside from that he's pretty useless though.

I guess he can tangle with Tirado in a pinch too, if Eirika is OHKO'd and you have nobody better i guess.

and what's this bullshit about ewan getting credit for bringing an energy ring, or getting the chapter 14 one if that's what you're talking about? that's absurd.

Its not absurd when youre comparing him to Rennac, who wont be able to reach it in time though. The point is, that he can get the ch14 eirika energy ring at 10/6 or so. Rennac cant. He also can go summoner or mage knight and have 1-2 range. Tell me, when does rennac ever get 1-2 range?

[General Horace]

if you give him credit for that, rennac gets credit for the barrier staves that allow lute, saleh, and maybe artur to A staves, killer weapons that are almost nessessary for killing orson (if you have no garm) and anything else in the secret shop. Ewan gets zero credit for clearing out that room, even people like Dozla (who is lower) have an easier time clearing out that room.

[MacLovin]

Its not absurd when youre comparing him to Rennac, who wont be able to reach it in time though. The point is, that he can get the ch14 eirika energy ring at 10/6 or so. Rennac cant. He also can go summoner or mage knight and have 1-2 range. Tell me, when does rennac ever get 1-2 range?

LIGHT BRAND FROM RAUSTEN!

[Anouleth]

Caelech sucks to kill. Joshua needs Aldusomething to do serious damage though.

Why is that a problem. What else will we do with it?

[Hawk King]

Horace, they are comparing Rennac to Ewan. PKL is just giving examples of the contributions Ewan can make. Oh, hes not giving him credit for the energy ring he starts with. He is saying Ewan is one, of several, units who can get the Chp 14 energy ring. Rennac deeserves the place he is in.

Dozla and L'arachel are better than everyone who is currently in the 6th round.

Sharpy, do you plan to keep this list updated or are we all wasting our time?

edit: Why is Franz above Nessie?? Vanessa is the best pick in this game.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Hawk King

[Anouleth]

And I agree. I personally think joshua is one of the worst draftees. Simply because he forces one of:

1. Drafting Natasha, not always going to happen

2. Slowing down to recruit him. This is bad, because he never pays off for those turns.

3. Taking a Natasha penalty which is awful

Surely draft rules should be changed to negate the cost of recruiting him?

[charlie_]

Why is that a problem. What else will we do with it?

If promotes that chapter he might not have the rank iirc.

[Hawk King]

Its really not as difficult as PKL makes it out to be. It cost 1 turn at most and avoiding a penalty isnt hard.

You dont see any rules change for Eirika route Marissa. She costs anywhere from 3-5 turns. I think Gerrik should be free to use in that map since he needs to recruit Marissa.

[Anouleth]

If promotes that chapter he might not have the rank iirc.

Even if he does, he only needs 30 WEXP, which is like, five rounds of combat. He can get that just from Caellach's underlings.

[General Horace]

ok so ewan can do something anybody on your team can do? That doesn't make him any better than rennac

I'm not saying Rennac is good, but saying Ewan can take out the south part of the desert or really any of the desert without a high chance of death is pretty ridiculous.

Edited August 10, 2012 by General Horace

[PKL]

ok so ewan can do something anybody on your team can do? That doesn't make him any better than rennac

I'm not saying Rennac is good, but saying Ewan can take out the south part of the desert or really any of the desert without a high chance of death is pretty ridiculous.

As ridiculous as saleh doing it? I dont see what the problem is. He faces 20ish hitrates for God's sake and obviously, youre not gonna expose him too much. Would rennac do it any better?

Edited August 10, 2012 by Ghost Marcia Drafter

[General Horace]

ewan facing 20ish hitrates what

he has 2 chapters to get exp before then, and one of them is done in 2 turns

I don't see how he even promotes to be honest

EWAN 10/10/01   HP MG SK SP LC DF RS 
               29 13 10 13 14 05 14

SALEH ??/06     HP MG SK SP LC DF RS
	32 17 19 16 13 09 15

for the desert stats assuming your mage knight ewan, and saleh is pretty much guarenteed 2 energy rings by this point, and ewan is guarenteed zero, so i could even bump up saleh's magic to 21. I give him a dragonshield too to help his durability, and he's very much entitled to it. I'll leave that out though. Not to mention saleh can use excalibur for more MT since ewan won't have S anima.

I don't know why you even suggested this comparison, its ridiculous in every way.

rennac is better against the enemies up near calleach anyhow, since ewan doesn't double them anyway and has equal durability (rennacs is arguably better since the axe guys)

Edited August 10, 2012 by General Horace

[PKL]

13x2+14 = 40 +20 from forest = 60. Pegknights have around 80 hit. How is that not 20ish? Even that ewan can ORKO pegknights with thunder im pretty sure. The thing is, in drafts, you know you have a low amount of units. Not having to send some of those other units for the energy ring could be argued as good utiltity because the others can focus on the objective and completely ignore ewan. Ive never had trouble, even with an average ewan, to rout that room and get the energy ring in time. He might not be the only one who can do this, but its still enough to mean more than undrafted rennac getting 2 items. He doesnt do anything if drafted other than that. Undrafted rennac can also get the warp just fine or boots and nothing else is required for that chapter. Drafting rennac can actually make obtaining warp and/or boots harder depending on your team too, since you wont be able to ferry him around and hes horrible against the pegknight reinforcements. Meanwhile, Ewan is ORKO'ing them and facing low hit from them and can contribute by chipping and summoning if you choose that. I guess Drafted Rennac has a niche in stealing the Hoplon Guard and finding the warp in the same turn, but thats too unreliable for my tastes. If your Killer critter character doesnt crit, Rennac is in for a world of hurt, since caellach has crit on him. Btw, its very easy to get Ewan 2 kills in the span of 2 turns of ch13. Hes going to be 10/6 after that. And can get out of ch14 with 10/12/1. Its rather easy to do. Im talking from experience. You however, arent, since you have never drafted Ewan.

Also, you shouldnt take everything I say seriously. I draft Saleh almost first pick all the time and no one in their right mind would compare their combat. I was just trolling lol. But I AM serious when i say Ewan>Rennac

Edited August 10, 2012 by Ghost Marcia Drafter

[General Horace]

oh you mean those pegasus knights that anybody can kill

lol misunderstanding

and how is drafted rennac harder to keep out of the way, you can still scoop him out of the way with a scrub like mage knight ewan anyway

and i don't think i've ever mentioned anything about rennac being better than ewan, im just saying you're hyping him a little to much

[eclipse]

13x2+14 = 40 +20 from forest = 60. Pegknights have around 80 hit. How is that not 20ish? Even that ewan can ORKO pegknights with thunder im pretty sure. The thing is, in drafts, you know you have a low amount of units. Not having to send some of those other units for the energy ring could be argued as good utiltity because the others can focus on the objective and completely ignore ewan. Ive never had trouble, even with an average ewan, to rout that room and get the energy ring in time. He might not be the only one who can do this, but its still enough to mean more than undrafted rennac getting 2 items. He doesnt do anything if drafted other than that. Undrafted rennac can also get the warp just fine or boots and nothing else is required for that chapter. Drafting rennac can actually make obtaining warp and/or boots harder depending on your team too, since you wont be able to ferry him around and hes horrible against the pegknight reinforcements. Meanwhile, Ewan is ORKO'ing them and facing low hit from them and can contribute by chipping and summoning if you choose that. I guess Drafted Rennac has a niche in stealing the Hoplon Guard and finding the warp in the same turn, but thats too unreliable for my tastes. If your Killer critter character doesnt crit, Rennac is in for a world of hurt, since caellach has crit on him. Btw, its very easy to get Ewan 2 kills in the span of 2 turns of ch13. Hes going to be 10/6 after that. And can get out of ch14 with 10/12/1. Its rather easy to do. Im talking from experience. You however, arent, since you have never drafted Ewan.

Also, you shouldnt take everything I say seriously. I draft Saleh almost first pick all the time and no one in their right mind would compare their combat. I was just trolling lol. But I AM serious when i say Ewan>Rennac

Sorry. . .just one point. . .

Rennac can jack the Hoplon Guard, turning that crit chance into 0.

[PKL]

Sorry. . .just one point. . .

Rennac can jack the Hoplon Guard, turning that crit chance into 0.

Derp my bad. But its still going to hurt if Caellach hits :p

[Hawk King]

Really? Who cares if Rennac can steal the Hoplon guard? You get it when you kill Caellach anyways. Something that Rennac is not capable of doing.

Rennac cant do anything to make him worthy of moving up. He is bad, and deserves to be the 2nd last pick in every draft.

Even though Ewan is pretty sucky, He is still better than Rennac.

[eclipse]

Gah, two points.

PKL, use this as a stat reference so you don't spout nonsense regarding pegasi hit rates in Chapter 15.

Hawk King, that's the wrong attitude to have in a tier list discussion.

[Hawk King]

Sorry, im just a little sick of this silly idea that Rennac > Ewan, but you are right.

On topic, using the HM enemy stats and a LV 10/12/1 Ewan's average stats (Mage Knight). The Peg knight range from 89-97 hit and Ewan will have 13 SPD and 15 LUK for a 41+20 (from the forrest) for a 61 Avoid. Thats a 28-36 displayed hit. And if Ewan is a Summoner instead for the +3 SPD as opposed to the +0 for MK, his avoid will be 67 on average giving the Peg knights 22-30 displayed hit. True hit being in the teens or lower. My money is gonna be on Ewan here.

Rennac cant take out these Peg knights because some of them have javelins and Rennac is busy digging up treasure anyway. Did I mention digging up treasure is a free action that he can do when undrafted?

Chp 16- Both useless. Ewan can summon for Exp.

Chp 17- See above

Chp 18- MK, and Summoner Ewan win here. Summoner being the best.

Chp 19- About the same. Summoner Ewan wont have D staff for torch tho.

Chp 20- Both useless.

Final- Both useless.

Ewan > Rennac

[eclipse]

Sorry, im just a little sick of this silly idea that Rennac > Ewan, but you are right.

On topic, using the HM enemy stats and a LV 10/12/1 Ewan's average stats (Mage Knight). The Peg knight range from 89-97 hit and Ewan will have 13 SPD and 15 LUK for a 41+20 (from the forrest) for a 61 Avoid. Thats a 28-36 displayed hit. And if Ewan is a Summoner instead for the +3 SPD as opposed to the +0 for MK, his avoid will be 67 on average giving the Peg knights 22-30 displayed hit. True hit being in the teens or lower. My money is gonna be on Ewan here.

Rennac cant take out these Peg knights because some of them have javelins and Rennac is busy digging up treasure anyway. Did I mention digging up treasure is a free action that he can do when undrafted?

Chp 16- Both useless. Ewan can summon for Exp.

Chp 17- See above

Chp 18- MK, and Summoner Ewan win here. Summoner being the best.

Chp 19- About the same. Summoner Ewan wont have D staff for torch tho.

Chp 20- Both useless.

Final- Both useless.

Ewan > Rennac

. . .which Ewan are you assuming again? Because if it's Ewan the Summoner, then Rennac will win Chapter 19 based on a Torch. ;/

I can't pull the dual Warp strategy in Chapter 16 reliably (since I miss more often than not, and resetting on cartridge is annoying), so Rennac gains experience by baiting the Warriors. I think Ewan can chip/heal, but he's not going to have the same insane dodge that WTA pulls (on the upside, he thinks that siege tomes are funny). In Chapter 15, I'm busy using Rennac as a combat unit, with the sole intent on getting Warp and jacking the Hoplon Guard. If he gets anything else, whee. I leave the rest to an undrafted Colm/flying unit. The most vital things that Rennac doesn't nab IMO are the Boots and Body Ring; Silver Card/Metis' Tome is icing on the cake, as are the weapons.

Next, why are we assuming that Ewan hit level 12 before promoting? It affects stats, and stuff like Speed/Magic affect how fast he kills stuff.

I've got a minimum of two horses in any given draft (Eir and Eph); I can force units to keep up with me. If I have Rennac, he goes solo down the east side in Chapter 18, because everyone else has better things to do with their time (southeast is Myrrh and someone else, because that group of three eggs hatches fast). I honestly don't care where he ends up, tile-wise - if it's a trap, he disables it. I can see Ewan the Summoner having an edge, until monsters start attacking - phantoms dying to monsters throws a wrench into my plans.

Maybe I should link that draft where Colm wound up being a combat unit, because that's my style.

[Hawk King]

Im just going off of PKL's 10/12/1 figures.

Sigh* Eclipse what is your best turncount for a FE8 draft?

We have 17 uses of warp.

Chp 16 is done in 2 or 3 turns

Chp 17: 1 or 2 turns

Chp 18: 5 or 6 turns, none of the eggs should ever hatch.

Chp 19: 1 turn

Chp 20: 2 turns

Final: 1 or 2 then 1 turns

Ive done 3 FE8 drafts and gotten these turncounts in all or them. And unless they do a poor job of drafting, anyone should be able to achieve these TCs or close to them, Rennac contributes just 2 times.

Chp 18, he can kill eggs. Every character in the game is better at this except for Colm, Josh and Marisa. Disabling traps is so useful that I COMPLETELY FORGOT Rennac could do that.

Chp 19, Rennac could use a torch but in all my drafts I make sure I have a 2nd staff user to use the Torch staff. Hey if we need him to Ewan can fill that role!

I've gotten them both in a draft. Ewan was still with the 10/1 rule and he sucked hard, but Rennac sucked even more than Ewan.