Nostalgia Mafia Game Over

[Shinori]

Because there is no way aere is getting lynched at the moment so if you had to buss someone it would have to be a different scum partner.

[Bluedoom]

Uh-huh. Good point. >.<

[Bluedoom]

wait wah? I've been targeting Rapier ever since D1, why are you talking about this phase?

[Grace]

1) But here's the problem. I'm interpreting your post to imply that you might know what would happen with him. And it did seem a little like detracting attention away from him, but eh

2) "I'm confused" implies that you weren't sure on your read on me, which was slightly scummy at that point in time, iirc?

3) I'm aware, which is why I said that that point was a stretch.

Rapier hardbus: towncred too strong ("Hey I suspected this person for most of the game!" - someone in this thread during D1)

[Bluedoom]

1) But here's the problem. I'm interpreting your post to imply that you might know what would happen with him. And it did seem a little like detracting attention away from him, but eh

2) "I'm confused" implies that you weren't sure on your read on me, which was slightly scummy at that point in time, iirc?

3) I'm aware, which is why I said that that point was a stretch.

Rapier hardbus: towncred too strong ("Hey I suspected this person for most of the game!" - someone in this thread during D1)

1) Here's My problem: I'm interpreting your case against me to be a huge OMGUS, and you can get away with it because everyone finds me scummy now.. What better than to mislynch the person who suspects you and fly under the radar?

See, I can make misinterpretations too.

2) Slightly scummy at that time doesn't matter if its not the present.

3) Ok cool.

So you are actually giving me shit for calling out Rapier? Alright, let's talk about how good your D1 play was: Jump on Shinori was meh and not very noticable(to me at least at that point), so you could actually get away with it. BBM accusing you of echo(and questioning me why I didn't give you shit) looks like distancing. Then you move on to Eli wagon and apparently you're cool with lynching Eli and not doing any more scumhunting. When eclipse calls you out and I too, you end up switiching to SB for reasons already stated so its nothing new. And when you do go on the Aerewagon, your vote's reasoning is "Claimed unnightkillable and is iffy." which is bullshit because you didn't bother expanding on the iffiness. I see Anouleth and Sage getting shit for that but why didn't anyone question you?

[Bluedoom]

Almost forgot, you also joined in on the role discussion which DOES NOTHING tohelp town. I did too, but at least it was,m I don't know, DURING NIGHT PHASE?

The fact that BBM poked at me for not finding you scummy,a nd you poking at me for 'backing down on you' + BBM 'scanning you' irks me.

[Bluedoom]

Also leaving for school because I have an exam, won't be on for like 5-6 hours or soemthing(or even more, because chem exam this wednesday)

[Grace]

I have half a mind to just fullclaim to shut you up

also note: you may have missed where I thought you were iffy during D1, cbf finding the quote right now (going home) but it's there

so uh about that "you can get away with it now that everyone is suspicious of you"...

I'll address the rest of the post when I get home, but I want you to actually notice stuff during N1 as well, because that isn't a void of content

and also read my posts again, and look at my justifications for things again (which might be replies after being prodded). I will admit the Aere vote was quite weak though. And look at his responses since, it's not too far of a stretch to say that he's being anti-town (and when he softclaimed as well).

back later.

[Grace]

I have half a mind to just fullclaim to shut you up

also note: you may have missed where I thought you were iffy during D1, cbf finding the quote right now (going home) but it's there

so uh about that "you can get away with it now that everyone is suspicious of you"...

I'll address the rest of the post when I get home, but I want you to actually notice stuff during N1 as well, because that isn't a void of content

and also read my posts again, and look at my justifications for things again (which might be replies after being prodded). I will admit the Aere vote was quite weak though. And look at his responses since, it's not too far of a stretch to say that he's being anti-town (and when he softclaimed as well).

back later.

[scorri]

Ok, so Aere. It's true I'm strongly considering vigging you tonight right now, yes. But, if you manage to convince me that you're not scum, or someone else jumps out as obviscum, I may choose to instead shoot someone else. So don't give up. Also, if you flip town, your reads will be rather useful. So, it'd be nice if you could give us a list of reads.

That being said, it does seem kinda likely to me that scum used their mass hook last night to try and make us waste another phase lynching Aere. Now, to me, that means one of two things. Either Aere's scum and they were trying to save him via lynch doc'ing him after the mass hook, or he's town and they're just trying to waste our time. I'm not sure which one it is, but it's not really relevant now unless something else comes up.

Moving past that,

Anouleth, Sage, kirsche: I'd like to see more from all three of you.

On Marth. I'll admit that his actions and views have been widely fluctuating and something just doesn't seem quite right here. Would be ok with this lynch.

Rapier I'm less sold on. I'd like to see some more from him so that I can settle my read on him a little better.

As always, if you're not mentioned it means I'm either neutral or town on you.

[Prims]

After further thought, I'm actually okay with Rapier lynch because it occurs to me that in spite of the game claim, scum could've just picked an EO role without an obvious effect, like Shinori's vig/commuter combination (this would even account for the N1 extra kill). Limited shots would make it easy to fakeclaim a different EO role, too. Snike's reasons I agree with.

Also #526 potential slip??? This was before Aere explicitly claimed Lynchproof. There could've been gov or whatever. Worthless without Aere flip but fascinating.

Finally got around to reading Sage's content. Why did you ignore Elie's claim and scorri's sub-in at that point? Elie paragraph feels like beating a dead horse given that you never mentioned whether you believed in him being cop or not. #647: How am I only avoiding death "for a couple of days" when it basically puts both scum and SK off from killing me any way other than mislynch (something that has never happened to me on this forum)? What passive town role should I have picked? For the record I did not look through all the games while picking my role and had no idea Bal's self-watcher was a Thing. #807: Why did you find Rapier's gameclaim scummy?

Got to Marth's turnaround on Aere from N1 and uuuugh. I had actually been soft townreading him up until recently but it's hard to deny the shit he's been trying to pull looks terrible. Rapier and Marth are both frustratingly silly-scummy and hard to read as a result (surprise, it's Rapier and Marth) but I don't believe they're buddies and feel the most confident on Kevin regardless. But ergh, I'm flipflopping and I think I'd lynch Rapier over Marth in this situation right now if it came down to them. Don't see the scum benifit in Marth's N1 tirade and his D1 posting was :townvibes:.

Question: is any SF history buff aware of a scum role with the kill flavor "beaten to death"?

Also, for Marth, why Rapier over Kevin regarding wagons? What do you think about what Kevin -has- done?

[Prims]

Messed up my tags in the Sage paragraph.

Finally got around to reading Sage's content. #523: Why did you ignore Elie's claim and scorri's sub-in at that point? Elie paragraph feels like beating a dead horse given that you never mentioned whether you believed in him being cop or not. #647: How am I only avoiding death "for a couple of days" when it basically puts both scum and SK off from killing me any way other than mislynch (something that has never happened to me on this forum)? What passive town role should I have picked? For the record I did not look through all the games while picking my role and had no idea Bal's self-watcher was a Thing. #807: Why did you find Rapier's gameclaim scummy?

[Paperblade]

I wouldn't read too much into flavor. I like flavor but I don't like giving hints based on it.

[Grace]

(this would even account for the N1 extra kill). Limited shots would make it easy to fakeclaim a different EO role, too.

Actually it wouldn't, because the vig shot couldn't be used until N2 ;/

So they have to had something else that could have done it.

[Prims]

Okay then.

List of games that could probably be the source of eclipse's death:

#3 - Pokemon Tactical Game (very unlikely - i think they'd rather pick the massblocking jack)

#4 - Theatre Mafia / Elieson (unlikely)

#6 - JB's FE10 Mafia / Manix

#8 - Shining Force Mafia

#9 - Sacred Stones Mafia / scorri (unlikely)

#11 - Touhou Mafia / Aere (unlikely unless there's a scumgov)

#12 - Carnival Phantasm Mafia / Psych

#15 - Choral Mafia II

#16 - Kamen Rider Ryuuki Mafia / Prims (but really)

#17 - Mafia of the Manly Men / Cam

#18 - Schoolgirl Mafia

Leaving:

#2 - Train Mafia II

#5 - Agent Minimafia / Sage

#7 - MtG Mafia (???)

#14 - Duel Terminal 2 Mafia / Snike

#19 - Etrian Oddysey / Rapier

manix did you pick MAFIA TRACKER VIG

[Grace]

manix did you pick MAFIA TRACKER VIG

I couldn't pick a killing role either, as well as some other restrictions,

way ahead of you. In fact to pick tracker/vig would go against two of my restrictions.

[Zkirsche]

Omg 11 Pages and I have like 2 minutes.

I picked PtG mafia to stop anyone getting that damned Nidoking or the kidnapper person.

Also I think scorri said I completely ignored the Aere wagon, but I don't think I was there for it.

Will expand on this and reread later.

[Kay]

I'm also getting vigged tonight because you are all convinced I am scum.

All the more reason to contribute while you're still alive.

My well is incredibly poisoned. If I make claims about player X, you guys may or may not believe me because of prior activities, and I feel less confident in my reads because of that.

They'll believe you next day if you flip town.

[Grace]

wait wah? I've been targeting Rapier ever since D1, why are you talking about this phase?

point still reamins that it looks like a hardbus because of that

1) Here's My problem: I'm interpreting your case against me to be a huge OMGUS, and you can get away with it because everyone finds me scummy now.. What better than to mislynch the person who suspects you and fly under the radar?

See, I can make misinterpretations too.

This is so passive aggressive I don't know where to start.

How would that make me fly under the radar if it was a mislynch, pray tell?

Also check this from D1:

gut check on Marth for reasons I can't quite put my finger on yet, although #427 is tipping me off more than the rest of his posts (as well as the one I quoted first)

So yeah, about that "and you can get away with it because everyone finds me scummy now.".

So you are actually giving me shit for calling out Rapier?

I'm giving you shit because of possible association reads, which means it is a fairly weak point.

Have you noticed that I also don't like what Rapier has been doing either?

Alright, let's talk about how good your D1 play was: Jump on Shinori was meh and not very noticable(to me at least at that point), so you could actually get away with it. BBM accusing you of echo(and questioning me why I didn't give you shit) looks like distancing.

And yet I was called out on it? And it's that actual situation with my interactions with BBM that look favorable for me (see Prims' post #808 near the start).

How does someone giving me shit (BBM) count as distancing, hmm?

Then you move on to Eli wagon and apparently you're cool with lynching Eli and not doing any more scumhunting. When eclipse calls you out and I too, you end up switiching to SB for reasons already stated so its nothing new.

Tunneling is bad and you know it. And nice way to ignore my posts that said I didn't want people to stop scumhunting. At that point I had jumped to the conclusion that Elie was going to be lynched because there was no counterwagon at that time, which was quite stupid of me.

And when you do go on the Aerewagon, your vote's reasoning is "Claimed unnightkillable and is iffy." which is bullshit because you didn't bother expanding on the iffiness. I see Anouleth and Sage getting shit for that but why didn't anyone question you?

And? Just because I'm not getting shit for it doesn't mean I'm scum, because it would take the entire playerset (which has to include town) to be ignoring me. Which is possibly an oversight by people. I don't know. I already addressed the weak Aere vote in saying it was as such; but actually look at this:

Aere posts didn't stand out in particular on this reread

Anyway. Honestly don't feel like lynching a cop claim, and Aere's softclaim actually irks me. Unnightkillable is an easy fake to use, and in addition to being not very memorable and kind of iffy:

I did say most of the reasons why I didn't find Aere town. The iffy part was his post content which I noted didn't stand out on a reread. Maybe I should have been more clear, I can accept that point.

[eclipse]

And so I die with the SAME ROLE without using it. AGAIN. One of these days, Ho-oh the Wonder Chicken will rise!

[Bluedoom]

point still reamins that it looks like a hardbus because of that

Alright dude. I totally bussed Rapier. It was my gameplan ever since the game started./sarcasm

This is so passive aggressive I don't know where to start.

How would that make me fly under the radar if it was a mislynch, pray tell?

Also check this from D1:

So yeah, about that "and you can get away with it because everyone finds me scummy now.".

The aggressiveness was intended.

How would it make you fly under the radar? The very fact that everyone's on my case means everyone needs a checking. Its not like you're the sole person who's going to take the blame if I'm mislynched.

That D1 post of yours you quoted? Guess what? That impression on me didn't have much conviction. It was a mere gut read- its about as weak as my confused view on you. So, can you please stop DIGGING for hidden meanings in my posts? Because you aren't looking very good with that.

I'm giving you shit because of possible association reads, which means it is a fairly weak point.

Have you noticed that I also don't like what Rapier has been doing either?

I shall answer this with my next point, which is:

And yet I was called out on it? And it's that actual situation with my interactions with BBM that look favorable for me (see Prims' post #808 near the start).

How does someone giving me shit (BBM) count as distancing, hmm?

Possible Associated reads Manix, based on interaction. BBM's called you out but was never strong in his case. Like there was no conviction. It was like a subtle attempt. Again, why are you using Prims' word like it matters? Opinions can differ, and finally, if you're going to counter this statement, I ask again:

How does my vote on Rapier look like a bus? Because if its your gut talking, then my gut says you might be scum buddies with BBM, take that!(edgey style)

Tunneling is bad and you know it. And nice way to ignore my posts that said I didn't want people to stop scumhunting. At that point I had jumped to the conclusion that Elie was going to be lynched because there was no counterwagon at that time, which was quite stupid of me.

No, you didnt EXPLICITLY say it, but your attitude towards it was apathetic. You acted like even if we tried scumhunting better the result would be the same and Eli would most likely be lynched. Again, we had a good no. of hours before phase end to actually hunt and possibly find a better player to lynch. But noooooo, instead you sounded like you were discouraging scumhunting.

And? Just because I'm not getting shit for it doesn't mean I'm scum, because it would take the entire playerset (which has to include town) to be ignoring me. Which is possibly an oversight by people. I don't know. I already addressed the weak Aere vote in saying it was as such; but actually look at this:

I did say most of the reasons why I didn't find Aere town. The iffy part was his post content which I noted didn't stand out on a reread. Maybe I should have been more clear, I can accept that point.

No it doesn't mean you're scum, but its also double standards. Again, Sage and Anouleth had to explain themselves well, why let you off the hook? You're missing the point- I'm giving you the due shit because others haven't and I wish they had questioned you earlier because I don't like the double standards.

Aere not standing out doesn't tell me whether you think he's scum or not. It just means you thought he was forgettable. Again, I repeat, you didn't do any scumhunting on your own except for voting Eli(and midn you, scumhunting doesn't involve voting someone. I'm an example of that, IMO.) then you jump on SB with a huge echo, and then jump on Aere because 'claimed unnightkillable" and the echoing lol.

I see you conveniently ignored my post about you role-speculating and other crap. You could've used that time to read ISOs and actually do something instead of whining about how there could be powerful roles in the game.

See Idc if you find me scummy for defending Aere, I mean I knew people would probably disagree with me. I did so because it actually seems plausible for Aere to actually do something like pick DP as town. I mean wtf, why would mafia out such a restriction and then say they pick DP when obviously there would be better choices? You would think they'd have fakeclaimed their restriction (which BBM did). I only changed my opinion because mafia actually had a lynch doc and lookinf at what kirsche said, I thought that was some sort of a scumslip.

[Grace]

The above post actually is making me cringe a bit because of twisting my stance and general stuff.

that said I'm about to go to bed, but I will address three points (and the entire post in the morning):

How does my vote on Rapier look like a bus? Because if its your gut talking, then my gut says you might be scum buddies with BBM, take that!(edgey style)

Nice. Here's some simple logic for you:

Statements:

- I think you are scum

- I also think Rapier is scum

=> implies that it is a bus because I think you are both scum

I feel like you're overreacting at this point and attempting to make me look bad by twisting and assuming stuff about what I'm saying. Like with the gut feeling part. This isn't my gut talking, so please stop assuming such things.

No it doesn't mean you're scum, but its also double standards. Again, Sage and Anouleth had to explain themselves well, why let you off the hook? You're missing the point- I'm giving you the due shit because others haven't and I wish they had questioned you earlier because I don't like the double standards.

Then explicitly say you want me to answer it, don't jump around the question with statements like what you said (what I originally quoted). It doesn't strike me as being very conducive to productivity when you're attacking me for a reason could you could have gone about in a more pro-town manner.

I see you conveniently ignored my post about you role-speculating and other crap. You could've used that time to read ISOs and actually do something instead of whining about how there could be powerful roles in the game.

Or I completely forgot about those posts because they were on the next page >_>

Lame explanation aside, why are you assuming that I wasn't doing such things? Just because I don't post all my thoughts in thread immediately doesn't mean I'm not looking through posts and rereading/ISO's anyway and formulating thoughts.

Again, this feels like you're trying to twist my actions (or lack thereof)(which you can't prove).

Question Marth: Do you think I am scummier than Rapier? If so, why don't you have a vote on me?

And some work for everyone else that isn't Marth: Analyse this exchange and explain who looks worse out of us two. Consider tone, content and motivation when doing so, thanks.

[Grace]

and by "this exchange" I don't just mean these last two posts, consider all the back and forth posts between us during D2

[Bluedoom]

I'll answer this your post when I get back later but:

Look you may have 'forgotten' but do you realize that you misinterpreted my posts during N1("he selectively answered so he'd look better!") Yeah, I could've forgotten to answer that too because, Idk, thought that quoting that rule helped my case??

Again, I'm saying you're showing double standards and digging deep into my posts.

[Bluedoom]

The above post actually is making me cringe a bit because of twisting my stance and general stuff.

that said I'm about to go to bed, but I will address three points (and the entire post in the morning):

Haven't you like, been doing this to me forever now? (ie. Questioning ED1 stuff, accusing me of bussing using WIFOM, and other crap)

Nice. Here's some simple logic for you:

Statements:

- I think you are scum

- I also think Rapier is scum

=> implies that it is a bus because I think you are both scum

I feel like you're overreacting at this point and attempting to make me look bad by twisting and assuming stuff about what I'm saying. Like with the gut feeling part. This isn't my gut talking, so please stop assuming such things.

Then look at my stance:

--> BBM flipped scum

---> I think you're scummy.

=> Implies he could've distanced himself from you.

So why are you questioning my interpretation?

Then explicitly say you want me to answer it, don't jump around the question with statements like what you said (what I originally quoted). It doesn't strike me as being very conducive to productivity when you're attacking me for a reason could you could have gone about in a more pro-town manner.

Alright, my bad.

Lame explanation aside, why are you assuming that I wasn't doing such things? Just because I don't post all my thoughts in thread immediately doesn't mean I'm not looking through posts and rereading/ISO's anyway and formulating thoughts.

Again, this feels like you're trying to twist my actions (or lack thereof)(which you can't prove).

Yeah, I don't know what goes on in your mind, and maybe you have been formulating thoughts or w/e, but when I don't see you actively scumhunt, try to actually make some sort of contribution and just sheep people, then it requires attention. Lemme show you how you sound right now:

"Manix, just because my profile states that I'm 16 and male doesn't actually mean I'm sixteen and male, you don't know who's sitting behind this PC! I could be an old woman demanding respect from you youngsters!"

And again, for the last time, YOU keep twisting my posts, trying to find some hiddne meanings in them when I obviously have had no intent. If you're going to defend yourself by saying I don't know what goes on in your mind, how can you assume what goes on in my mind? Srsly?

I find Rapier more scummy than you because he actually doesn't post any new content or really does anything. He didn't even answer my question in N1 which was how he could change his opinion of Kay from defensive to decent over I don't even know how many posts because at that point clearly she looked unmemorable. Not to mention she kept her vote on a person who wasn't going to get lynched any time soon especially when town was almost set on a lynch. He's been avoiding questions and has just been sheeping anyway. Prims, I think this answers your question too, although if we were set on a kirsche lynch, I wouldn't mind that either.