FE9 Draft Tier List and Character Discussion

[Ema Skye]

[spoiler=Standard Ruleset from DTE, with the exception of Free Reyson]Drafting:

1. This draft is for 5 players.

2. Ike, Titania, Reyson and one of Tibarn, Naesala or Giffca are free for all to use.

3. Nasir and Ena will be drafted as a pair.

4. The game will be played on Fixed Hard Mode.

Rules:

1. Undrafted units may recruit characters, Rescue and Shove/Smite undrafted characters and NPCs, trade, Escape, and dig up items in the desert.

2. Undrafted units may not do anything not listed above, including but not limited to meatshielding, building Supports, opening Doors and Chests, and Arriving.

3. There are limits to how much BEXP may be used, and this is explained in detail below.

4. Partner and Other units may do as they please without penalty.

5. Defend chapters count the last played Player Phase for turns if the timer is waited out.

6. Chapter 27, Part 2 is not counted for final turncounts.

Penalties:

1. Undrafted units have a 4 turn penalty, per unit per chapter (Chapter 17 counts as 4 chapters).

Exceptions:

1. Reyson and Janaff/Ulki may be used to obtain the Knight Ring if undrafted. They may not perform any other disallowed actions without penalty.

BEXP Limits:

1. Use the table below to determine how much BEXP you're allowed to give your units when you're first able to give them BEXP. Characters are listed as either a level (such as 10/--) or an amount (such as 2.xx). You may use BEXP to get them to the level shown or give them the amount shown (Example: 2.xx would mean you're allowed to cap off their current level, then give them 2 more levels).

2. At the beginning of each chapter, you may give your units 50 EXP worth of BEXP.

3. Once you reach Endgame, you may distribute BEXP freely to whomever you wish.

4. Titania may not be given BEXP until Endgame.

Ike:            +0.xx
Boyd:   		+0.xx
Oscar:          +0.xx
Rhys:   		+4.xx
Soren:          +3.xx
Mia:            +3.xx
Ilyana: 		+3.xx
Rolf:   		+7.xx
Mist:   		+6.xx
Marcia: 		+2.xx
Lethe:          +0.00
Mordecai:   	+0.00
Volke:          12/--
Kieran: 		13/--
Brom:   		12/--
Nephenee:   	10/--
Zihark: 		+1.xx
Sothe:          09/--
Jill:   		+2.xx
Astrid: 		+5.xx
Gatrie: 		+2.xx
Makalov:        +3.xx
Stefan: 		+0.00
Tormod: 		14/--
Muarim: 		+0.00
Devdan: 		+1.xx
Tanith: 		+0.00
Reyson: 		+0.00
Janaff: 		--/10
Ulki:   		--/10
Shinon: 		+6.xx
Calill: 		--/08
Tauroneo:   	+1.xx
Ranulf: 		--/12
Haar:   		+1.xx
Lucia:          +3.xx
Bastian:        +3.xx
Geoffrey:   	--/13
Largo:          --/10
Elincia:        --/07
Ena:            --/15

Red means the unit costs turns. Blue means that the unit may cost turns depending on the team. Units are rated in a vacuum.

-First Pick-

Jill

Marcia

Oscar

Tanith

Kieran

-Second Pick-

Mordecai

Mist

Boyd

Lethe

Soren

-Third Pick-

Tormod

Astrid

Ilyana

Calill

Muarim

-Fourth Pick-

Mia

Nephenee

Volke

Gatrie

Zihark

-Fifth Pick-

Makalov

Haar

Ranulf

Sothe

Shinon

-Sixth Pick-

Elincia

Janaff

Rolf

Rhys

Geoffery

-Seventh Pick-

Ulki

Bastian

Largo

Lucia

Devdan

-Eighth Pick-

Tauroneo

Ena/Nasir

Brom

Stefan

Rate/Hate/Appreciate

Edited November 17, 2012 by Lucina

[ZemZem]

You listed Rolf twice.

I haven't drafted in FE9 quite yet, but I'd expect Makalov to be a bit higher than where he is currently.

[Florete]

Ilyana below Calill, Tormod, Elincia? Tormod maybe because of his Move, but desert and a sizable availability advantage should get Ilyana above Calill. And Elincia should be, like, sixth pick at best. Poor combat and durability and only three maps of usefulness. Rescue is not that good.

Haar > Ranulf. Practically the same availability, flight, no gauge should overcome any combat win Ranulf has (if any). Recruiting is a only possibly a problem for whoever drafted Marcia.

Bastian as sixth with Lucia as eighth is strange. I'm not even sure I'd put Bastian > Lucia, and they shouldn't be so far apart. Lucia's crit, Spd, and access to Silver Forges should close the gap if not put her higher. There's not much long-range utility left in the game for Bastian, either, and I can only see him being so high a pick for the one or two people who didn't get any other Sage. EDIT: Oh, Bastian was listed twice.

Brom is missing.

That's all that stands out to me for now. Maybe also switch Tanith and Boyd since Tanith just comes too late to be a good first pick.

I haven't drafted in FE9 quite yet, but I'd expect Makalov to be a bit higher than where he is currently.

I thought about that, too, but then remembered that he's only reasonable to recruit for the person who drafted Marcia.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Red Fox of Fire

[Ema Skye]

@ZM: Makalov's so far down because he's only really worth drafting if you have Marcia. If you don't have Marcia, you're risking a Marcia penalty to recruit him (you've got to send some units to protect undrafted Marcia from getting you penalties, costing you turns).

If you have Marcia though, Makalov is pretty awesome, probably about 2nd or 3rd round material, because you don't need to slow down to recruit him. Marcia can safely fly over to her brother by herself, letting the rest of your units to plow their way to Gashilama. Also, Makalov costs a few turns to recruit (IIRC, somewhere from 2-4).

@Red Fox: Ranulf can shove your mounts in the last stretch of the game. Haar can't. Haar's not really a good pick for anyone. You've got to protect undrafted Jill, or you need to have a second mount to clear the map while Jill stays behind for Haar. It's a lose-lose situation for everyone.

Forgot Brom, and also had Bastian twice (Need to spend more time checking over the list I guess ._.). Bastian is in seventh pick now, as is Brom.

Tanith/Kieran/Boyd could be in any order. I currently have Tanith over top due to how valuable flight is in the part of the game when Tanith is around, which I see as more valuable than Kieran stomping the 7 chapters before Tanith shows up. Boyd's also a valuable asset for the earlygame, especially in Ch.7 where the more units the merrier.

As for Ilyana, she's just really slow. She's helpful in the desert, but you'd only really need her if you don't have Marcia, Jill, Mordecai or Soren. The fliers can fly over to Maurim with the Laguz Lance and clear the map in 2 turns. Mordecai can smite Titania, Oscar or Kieran to Maurim for a 4 turn clear (PKL did that here. Soren can do the same thing as Ilyana, but he has an easier time doubling Maurim (Ilyana needs a speedwing to even consider the possibility of doubling Maurim, whereas Lv.20/5 Soren with a Speedwing will double Maurim. Calill also has a much easier time seige nuking Shiharam than Ilyana, again due to higher attack speed. I can agree with you about Elincia being rather high (even though PKL thinks that she's pretty good for her maps), but Rescue staff will save more turns in Ch.26, 27 and Final than Ilyana will, even though Mist does the mounted Rescue staff better. I couldn't see her below Rhys or Sothe though, because Rhys doesn't save that many turns, and Sothe can help save turns on Ch.13 by opening chests..

Edited September 10, 2012 by HORSEBIRD

[Shadow Mir]

What's with Tanith being first pick and not Boyd??? I'd imagine someone coming as late as her not being first pick material. Also, I'm not feeling Elincia being fourth pick at all.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[MacLovin]

How is Sothe this high?

[Ema Skye]

@Golden Cucco: Flight is a powerful tool in FE9, even if you show up late like Tanith (and even Tanith still has about 11 chapters of the game left), not to mention that the higher move will save more turns. Ch.21 really likes flight, as does Ch.25. Tanith's join time will rely on you to pick characters that join early, like Mia, Nephenee and Boyd, in the unlikely he's still around. First picking Boyd is an invite for Player five to grab both Kieran (a really good Paladin) and Tanith (a really good flier). Tanith's Reinforcements are absolutely incredible in maps like Ch.18 (they can deal with the wyverns at the beginning), Ch.21 (sleep staff bait) and Ch.25 (annoying route mission where our ponies are gimped).

@Sharpy: Sothe gets you nice stuff in the desert, like Boots, Guard and a statue frag (useful for having Lethe show promoted Jill). Not to mention that he'll also get you Wrath and Resolve, and also save you some turns in Ch.13 by forcing the ravens to retreat.

[Florete]

@Red Fox: Ranulf can shove your mounts in the last stretch of the game. Haar can't. Haar's not really a good pick for anyone. You've got to protect undrafted Jill, or you need to have a second mount to clear the map while Jill stays behind for Haar. It's a lose-lose situation for everyone.

Haar is a reliable last-minute flier. Ch 24 is more easily cleared with a flier, he can drop someone at the top on 25, go over the trees on 28, and drop Ike off in Final. If Ranulf started with 16 gauge I could see him higher, but Demi Band stats (possibly needing to share it, as well) + late game shoving when you have nearly as many picks for such a job at this point as you do fliers is not that special. Needing a second mount (you already have Titania) is only a problem for the person who drafted Jill, and protecting unused Jill is not a problem as long as you know where Haar appears.

Forgot Brom, and also had Bastian twice (Need to spend more time checking over the list I guess ._.). Bastian is in seventh pick now, as is Brom.

What makes Bastian > Lucia?

As for Ilyana, she's just really slow. She's helpful in the desert, but you'd only really need her if you don't have Marcia, Jill, Mordecai or Soren. The fliers can fly over to Maurim with the Laguz Lance and clear the map in 2 turns. Mordecai can smite Titania, Oscar or Kieran to Maurim for a 4 turn clear (PKL did that here. Soren can do the same thing as Ilyana, but he has an easier time doubling Maurim (Ilyana needs a speedwing to even consider the possibility of doubling Maurim, whereas Lv.20/5 Soren with a Speedwing will double Maurim. Calill also has a much easier time seige nuking Shiharam than Ilyana, again due to higher attack speed. I can agree with you about Elincia being rather high (even though PKL thinks that she's pretty good for her maps), but Rescue staff will save more turns in Ch.26, 27 and Final than Ilyana will, even though Mist does the mounted Rescue staff better. I couldn't see her below Rhys or Sothe though, because Rhys doesn't save that many turns, and Sothe can help save turns on Ch.13 by opening chests..

Ilyana's sheer availability lead over Elincia is not something that will be made up by the Rescue staff. Siege tome use and just being there so early is not something anyone will pass up for a late game Rescue staff user that can't even keep herself alive. I don't know about Rhys, but Sothe shouldn't be that high, anyway. Ch 13 is really his only claim to fame, but that can be reasonably made up by Chest Keys and the enemy Ravens themselves who actually get to a few chests by turn 7.

Sothe gets you nice stuff in the desert, like Boots, Guard and a statue frag (useful for having Lethe show promoted Jill). Not to mention that he'll also get you Wrath and Resolve, and also save you some turns in Ch.13 by forcing the ravens to retreat.

Boots is the only thing he'd get. You won't have enough time to get the others unless you're recruiting Stefan. Chest Keys just as easily get Wrath and Resolve, especially considering the lateness of Resolve (more units to choose from to get it).

Tanith's Reinforcements are absolutely incredible in maps like Ch.21 (sleep staff bait)

You have to slow down too much for this to matter. By the time they reach the range of the Bishop near Ena, you've probably killed him already, or he's used it up.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Red Fox of Fire

[Shadow Mir]

@Golden Cucco: Flight is a powerful tool in FE9, even if you show up late like Tanith (and even Tanith still has about 11 chapters of the game left), not to mention that the higher move will save more turns. Ch.21 really likes flight, as does Ch.25. Tanith's join time will rely on you to pick characters that join early, like Mia, Nephenee and Boyd, in the unlikely he's still around. First picking Boyd is an invite for Player five to grab both Kieran (a really good Paladin) and Tanith (a really good flier). Tanith's Reinforcements are absolutely incredible in maps like Ch.18 (they can deal with the wyverns at the beginning), Ch.21 (sleep staff bait) and Ch.25 (annoying route mission where our ponies are gimped).

Sounds good enough for me.

[Hawk King]

I would put Oscar above Jill. He saves a bunch of turns early on and Jill costs at least 1 turn to recruit.

Also if this is based on the newer rules that dont give Marcia and Jill an initial Bexp dump then Jill wont be able to 2 turn Chp 15 and Oscar will also be better for Chp 16.

[Ema Skye]

Marcia also costs a turn to recruit, so with that logic Oscar should also be over Marcia. Once Jill shows up, she either beats Oscar or ties with him in turn counts (although Oscar has the benefit of being easier to shove/smite). The turns Oscar saves in the early game are matched by Jill in Ch.15, Ch,17 (especially -2 and -4), Ch.21, Ch.24, Ch.25 and Ch.28.

New rules aren't standard yet, this list still uses the current ones in DTE. If we get a rule change, then we'll work on correcting this list to fit the new rules.

[PKL]

Haar is a reliable last-minute flier. Ch 24 is more easily cleared with a flier, he can drop someone at the top on 25, go over the trees on 28, and drop Ike off in Final. If Ranulf started with 16 gauge I could see him higher, but Demi Band stats (possibly needing to share it, as well) + late game shoving when you have nearly as many picks for such a job at this point as you do fliers is not that special. Needing a second mount (you already have Titania) is only a problem for the person who drafted Jill, and protecting unused Jill is not a problem as long as you know where Haar appears.

Haar costs a lot of turns to recruit and his combat is pretty mediocre aside from the Brave Axe.

What makes Bastian > Lucia?

Probably sieging. Ive always found Lucia > Bastian though.

Ilyana's sheer availability lead over Elincia is not something that will be made up by the Rescue staff. Siege tome use and just being there so early is not something anyone will pass up for a late game Rescue staff user that can't even keep herself alive. I don't know about Rhys, but Sothe shouldn't be that high, anyway. Ch 13 is really his only claim to fame, but that can be reasonably made up by Chest Keys and the enemy Ravens themselves who actually get to a few chests by turn 7.

Agreed with Ilyana>Elincia. Elincia is a pretty bad pick. Im testing Rhys in a draft and he's like, one of the worst draftees imo. He helps Ike train for ch7 a bit but thats about it.

Boots is the only thing he'd get. You won't have enough time to get the others unless you're recruiting Stefan. Chest Keys just as easily get Wrath and Resolve, especially considering the lateness of Resolve (more units to choose from to get it).

Ive gotten Physic and Boots in 3 turns. You have to be creative though. Undrafted Volke can get the statue frag. Chest Keys arent plentiful btw. You have to slow down in chapter 10 to get them, not to mention that you might have used one of the early ones for Armorslayer. So you have like 3-4 which will ideally be used in Chapter 13 to save turns.

You have to slow down too much for this to matter. By the time they reach the range of the Bishop near Ena, you've probably killed him already, or he's used it up.

Not really. I dont think you have to slow down at all.

Answers in quote.

[Hawk King]

With the newer "unofficial" rules I would say Oscar is the best. With the current rules I would go Marcia > Oscar > Jill.

Oscar saves half a dozen turns before Jill shows up. After that, Jill doesnt really save that many turns over Oscar. As long as the Oscar drafter drafts well, They will on lose by 1 turn in Chp 15, 17-1, 17-2, and 17-4. and im not sure after that.

[MacLovin]

Brom>Stefan?

Stefan does cost turns, but so does Brom.

Or do Stefans great bases and immediate useability count over Broms availibility and durability and 1-2 range.........

[PKL]

What good is Brom's 1-2 range if he cant ORKO with it? He also takes too long to get anywhere. Brom costing turns to recruit depends on the team btw.

[Anouleth]

Why is Bastian not in the bottom? 80% of the time (100% if you want to count Rhys) you will have a siege tome user already and have no use for him. AKA, 80% of the time he is a last round pick, certainly behind Lucia and Ulki.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Anouleth

[Florete]

Haar costs a lot of turns to recruit and his combat is pretty mediocre aside from the Brave Axe.

What? No, he does not. He costs no turns to recruit unless you've drafted Jill (and even then it depends on the rest of your team), certainly not a lot at all. And this is versus Ranulf here, who doesn't fly and doesn't even have combat until turn 3 of every map unless using the Demi Band for even more mediocre combat.

Ive gotten Physic and Boots in 3 turns. You have to be creative though. Undrafted Volke can get the statue frag. Chest Keys arent plentiful btw. You have to slow down in chapter 10 to get them, not to mention that you might have used one of the early ones for Armorslayer. So you have like 3-4 which will ideally be used in Chapter 13 to save turns.

Physic wasn't mentioned originally but yeah. And it depends on your team whether or not you have to slow down to get them in Ch 10. On my recent run with Titania, Lethe, and Ike (well, and Mist), I couldn't beat it faster than 4 turns, but that also enabled me a boss kill and I got the extra chest key drop. Plus there's Ravens I mentioned for Ch 13, more in 16 you might get, and more in 27 just in time for the Resolve scroll. You simply won't need to open enough chests throughout the game.

On a side note for the desert items, the thieves can't lay full claim to them anyway since everyone has a chance to find them.

Not really. I dont think you have to slow down at all.

If you have Tanith, yeah, especially with free Reyson. I recently did that map with Tanith and I only bothered having them distract some guys in the middle. They appear too far back.

[PKL]

What? No, he does not. He costs no turns to recruit unless you've drafted Jill (and even then it depends on the rest of your team), certainly not a lot at all. And this is versus Ranulf here, who doesn't fly and doesn't even have combat until turn 3 of every map unless using the Demi Band for even more mediocre combat.

Ranulf has smiting utility though. He really helps with it. Haar requires you to wait in ch11 for jill, recruit her and might have to take a penalty in ch23 in order to recruit him. Unless you leave someone behind that can take all those enemies including Haar at once...

Physic wasn't mentioned originally but yeah. And it depends on your team whether or not you have to slow down to get them in Ch 10. On my recent run with Titania, Lethe, and Ike (well, and Mist), I couldn't beat it faster than 4 turns, but that also enabled me a boss kill and I got the extra chest key drop. Plus there's Ravens I mentioned for Ch 13, more in 16 you might get, and more in 27 just in time for the Resolve scroll. You simply won't need to open enough chests throughout the game.

If you say so, I usually find that there arent enough chest keys.

On a side note for the desert items, the thieves can't lay full claim to them anyway since everyone has a chance to find them.

The chance of anyone finding them is small though. Their guaranteed item finding is awesome.

If you have Tanith, yeah, especially with free Reyson. I recently did that map with Tanith and I only bothered having them distract some guys in the middle. They appear too far back.

Answers in quote.

Edited September 11, 2012 by CR-S0I

[Ema Skye]

So much stuff to respond to, but I've read it.

Here's what I'm doing:

Elincia to bottom of 6th

Ilyana over Zihark to top of 4th

Bastian to 8th pick below Lucia

[Florete]

Ranulf has smiting utility though. He really helps with it. Haar requires you to wait in ch11 for jill, recruit her and might have to take a penalty in ch23 in order to recruit him. Unless you leave someone behind that can take all those enemies including Haar at once...

Lethe, Mordecai, and Muarim are already around with Shoving utility, and free Reyson lessens the value of Shoving anyway. Does Jill actually need to take her spot on Ch 11 to show in Ch 12? I don't remember ever not seeing her in Ch 12 in all the drafts I've done. Either way, Jill appears by when, turn 4? 5? Most early teams are not going to be able to beat the map before she appears. The fastest it can even be beaten is three turns and you need Marcia for that (and who knows if she can even manage it under the ruleset). In Ch 23, if you have Jill on the spot just to left of where Haar arrives (it is actually one of the starting spots you can put your units in), she can talk to him and move far enough away that no enemies can reach her. The other enemies could potentially be problematic, but it isn't unlikely that the cavs/paladins at least will appear at the same time as Haar (I usually get them all at once) and by this point, you should have enough units that you can spare one or two to hold off those enemies. Someone like Brom can actually make himself useful for this.

Point being, while you may need some foresight to do it, recruiting Haar should cost you nothing. It's only going to be a problem if you drafted Jill and want her leading the way, but only one person gets Jill. There are still chapters where flight is very useful in the game (I listed them in a previous post), and Haar's only significant combat loss is Spd (even against Ranulf's non-Demi Band stats), but you should be able to spare a Speedwing for him. Then Haar has access to Brave and Killer weapons, steel forges (until he reaches A weapon levels for Silver forges), and ranged weaponry while Ranulf is stuck with an 8 MT/0 Crit Claw.

I just don't see how Shoving/Smiting utility this late in the game is seen as superior to an extra flier with semi-decent combat.

The chance of anyone finding them is small though. Their guaranteed item finding is awesome.

It is awesome, but it is not the only way.

[Hawk King]

Yes, Jill needs to appear in Chp 11 for her to come ind Chp 12. And she comes on turn 5. Any team should be capable of 4 turning Chp 11 so by extension, Haar costs at least 1 turn to recruit. Possibly more for whoever drafts Jill.

[Florete]

At first I wondered how that was reasonable, then I remembered the middle path you can take where the BK appears.

Eh...I still think 1 turn (that probably not just any team can save) isn't enough to put Ranulf over Haar, especially for people who don't have one of the other three fliers.

EDIT: Hey, wait...just by counting squares, it takes 32 spaces (4 turns for Titania, 5 spaces to make up for 3) to reach the Arrive point in Ch 11 going up the middle, but then I know there are enemies that block you on the narrow path by the BK house and you still have to take at least one turn to kill the Knight on the Arrive square. The west route is a similar number of squares but is even more fucked in terms of enemies blocking you. How often do people actually do this in 4 turns or less in drafts? I've gone over all the drafts I've done and 5 has always been my minimum. Went over some drafts from others and not finding any who beat it in 4 turns...

Edited September 11, 2012 by Red Fox of Fire

[Hawk King]

In my 1st and only FE 9 draft so far, I worked out a 4 turn strategy for Chp 11, but then I realized Jill didnt come until turn 5. And I needed to recruit her since I had drafted Haar.

Im still not done with this playthrough, btw.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Hawk King

[PKL]

Not everyone can get Mordy Lethe or Muarim tho. Ive had Ranulf in a draft before and those 2 spaces of his and better wt than lethe are amazing. Like, he always shaves a turn somewhere. He was one of the MVPs of my most recent draft run (the one where I almost beat/tied non-restricted Theory Marcia by 1 turn without flight) Haar comes too late and there's not as much demand for a flier THAT late. Unless somehow that drafter doesnt have a paladin at all. The only chapter you would really want Haar in, if you dont have a flier is Chapter 25 and even then, you can 5 turn it with a lot of different combinations of draftees (Tormod is amazing for this but there are other ways). The rest of the chapters a paladin can do it, sometimes slower, yes, but with ranulf around, it gets a lot quicker with his smiting. Probably quicker than with Haar.

@HK- Also, chapter 11 in 4 turns is impossible with only Titania. Ive tried a lot of times (like seriously, its the chapter Ive spent the most time trying to optimize in drafts because that map is a prick) and can safely say that. Titania needs to move every single square every turn and its almost impossible to do because of her frailty and not being able to ORKO armors in one side and getting blocked by enemies if you go north. There's the issue of the boss being a prick and almost killing Titania too, especially with that sword of his. I doubt it is plausible to do it reliably at any rate.

Edited September 11, 2012 by CR-S0I

[Caliban of Sycorax]

recruiting Jill in C12 isn't hard, though. Marcia probably can't solo the ravens before Jill arrives, and Jill also can tank them with the Laguzguard (they do 3x2 on her except for Seeker who does 5x2, IIRC).