Bonds of the Beloved: Feedback

[Anacybele]

Just telling you, no 10 year old kid picks up a swing with a sword within an hour or so. At the very least, we're talking days.

Wait, what? xP "picks up a swing with a sword"?

[eclipse]

Hmm. . .could've been worded better.

"Gets proficient with a particular sword swing".

[Anacybele]

Ohhh. I see now.

I never said Nick gets proficient in an hour. Sure he gets a little better, but I wouldn't say proficient.

[Might Gaine]

Just got here, and just finished reading the fic.

I'm going to be brutally honest here. It's sappy, features pairings I've never particularly thought about/cared for, and is sweet almost to the point of diabetes. And, ABOVE ALL ELSE, it... it... IT...!!!

Is a very nice fic and it's kinda fun to read. I look forward to the next chapter. <sincere>

On the matter of Nick's supposed hypercompetency: I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter unless it's relevant to the plot.

I know it's mentioned that Sain isn't as big as a Berserker, but out of sheer curiosity, is he as big as Oswin or Hector?

[Anacybele]

Just got here, and just finished reading the fic.

I'm going to be brutally honest here. It's sappy, features pairings I've never particularly thought about/cared for, and is sweet almost to the point of diabetes. And, ABOVE ALL ELSE, it... it... IT...!!!

Is a very nice fic and it's kinda fun to read. I look forward to the next chapter. <sincere>

On the matter of Nick's supposed hypercompetency: I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter unless it's relevant to the plot.

I know it's mentioned that Sain isn't as big as a Berserker, but out of sheer curiosity, is he as big as Oswin or Hector?

Heh, oh wow. I never thought I could make fics featuring certain pairings appeal this much to someone who wasn't fond of those pairings in the first place.

No, I'm serious. I didn't think I had that much skill, lol. Otherwise, I wouldn't have placed those warnings in the OP.

Anyway, no, Nick's skills with a blade aren't relevant to the plot. I just wanted to start the story out with the lives of Sain and his family. I like stories that start this way, because it helps me get to know the characters early on. However, Nick's courage and knowledge of the outdoors DOES become relevant, but these are things that he's learned from his father beforehand.

As for your question on Sain's size, he might be as big as Oswin or Hector. I never really considered comparing them. But I'd say Sain is around RD Ike's build. The muscularity Sain already has in FE7...yeah, I can imagine him growing stronger over time. He just wouldn't work out as adamantly as Ike does. I mean Ike got big and bulky in just three years, whereas it took Sain four times as long to get that far. xP

Edited October 3, 2012 by Anacybele

[CT075]

just because something isn't exactly relevant doesn't make it unimportant

it kind of breaks that immersion when you have to go back and question if it's possible

[Anacybele]

Huh. Yeah, I guess that's true too. Hmm...

[Might Gaine]

Heh, oh wow. I never thought I could make fics featuring certain pairings appeal this much to someone who wasn't fond of those pairings in the first place.

No, I'm serious. I didn't think I had that much skill, lol. Otherwise, I wouldn't have placed those warnings in the OP.

Anyway, no, Nick's skills with a blade aren't relevant to the plot. I just wanted to start the story out with the lives of Sain and his family. I like stories that start this way, because it helps me get to know the characters early on. However, Nick's courage and knowledge of the outdoors DOES become relevant, but these are things that he's learned from his father beforehand.

As for your question on Sain's size, he might be as big as Oswin or Hector. I never really considered comparing them. But I'd say Sain is around RD Ike's build. The muscularity Sain already has in FE7...yeah, I can imagine him growing stronger over time. He just wouldn't work out as adamantly as Ike does. I mean Ike got big and bulky in just three years, whereas it took Sain four times as long to get that far. xP

Although I'm normally pretty chill about ships in general, my preferred ones for 7 are Hector/Farina, Eliwood/Lyn, Eliwood/Ninian, and Hector/Florina. I'm not against reading fics about other ships, it's just that I normally don't use Sain, Kent, or Fiora much in the grand scheme of things and I kinda tend to forget about them.

I totally understand having a little swordsmanship lesson at the start of the fic, it's a slice of the family's life.

I haven't played RD, just most of PoD.

just because something isn't exactly relevant doesn't make it unimportant

it kind of breaks that immersion when you have to go back and question if it's possible

That kind of thing almost never bugs me, personally.

[Anacybele]

Although I'm normally pretty chill about ships in general, my preferred ones for 7 are Hector/Farina, Eliwood/Lyn, Eliwood/Ninian, and Hector/Florina. I'm not against reading fics about other ships, it's just that I normally don't use Sain, Kent, or Fiora much in the grand scheme of things and I kinda tend to forget about them.

Ah, I see. I actually prefer EliwoodxLyn to EliwoodxNinian, but I like HectorxLyn even more than EliwoodxLyn (and I don't like KentxLyn at all), so... Yeah. And SainxFiora is my favorite FE7 pair, so that left Eliwood with Ninian. And I can't see Eliwood choosing an unnamed woman over her or Lyn. xP

I totally understand having a little swordsmanship lesson at the start of the fic, it's a slice of the family's life.

Yup, exactly.

I haven't played RD, just most of PoD.

Oh, my bad. I didn't know. But do you mean PoR?

[Might Gaine]

Oh, my bad. I didn't know. But do you mean PoR?

Yes. Yes I do.

[Anacybele]

Ah. Well, if you haven't played RD, have you seen what RD Ike looks like? You can easily find official art of him through Google or FEPlanet.

[Shuuda]

Just a few comments from scanning over the third chapter.

First of all, you might want to lay of the modern language. I found it rather weird to read words like "douche" or "awesome" in a story set in a Fire Emblem universe. Those words don't really fit into the setting, which has a clear medieval slant to them. I'm not saying you need to be all "curs" and stuff, but I think it would be better if you layed off the slang and modern phrases.

Secondly, I can't help but notice that the entire chapter seems to be one long scene. It makes the pace of the story feel achingly slow when it dawdles on the same thing for so long.

[Anacybele]

Just a few comments from scanning over the third chapter.

First of all, you might want to lay of the modern language. I found it rather weird to read words like "douche" or "awesome" in a story set in a Fire Emblem universe. Those words don't really fit into the setting, which has a clear medieval slant to them. I'm not saying you need to be all "curs" and stuff, but I think it would be better if you layed off the slang and modern phrases.

Uh, I'm pretty sure I've seen the word awesome in Fire Emblem. Another thing, what about Sully in Awakening?

Secondly, I can't help but notice that the entire chapter seems to be one long scene. It makes the pace of the story feel achingly slow when it dawdles on the same thing for so long.

You should actually read the chapter then. There are multiple scenes. The breakfast scene in the beginning (which I'll admit is a tad long, but I wanted to shed some light on what Kent's been up to as well as display some sibling rivalry between Nick and Emily), then the short talk between Sain and Kent, then the sword training scene, then there's the groups trip around town, then there's the scene where Sain and Kent go to the tavern for their private chat and all, then there's the scene with Fiora when they get back to the house, then Nick has a nightmare, then Kent and Fiora talk for a bit by themselves.

I appreciate your critique, but did you like anything about the story/chapter regardless of flaws? Telling me would greatly encourage me to keep going and make me more comfortable with fixing any errors that are pointed out. :)

[KitheOfEvrark]

I finished reading all three chapters so I thought I'd give my take.

You sure use a LOT of dialogue. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it might make the chapters more interesting if you made the conversation to exposition ratio less imbalanced. As Shuuda described, it makes the pacing feel inconsistant. For example, in the third chapter they spend a really long time over breakfast, then speed through a highlight reel of their trip on the town, then have another fairly extended conversation.

Now for the characters. Children can be a pretty big pitfall, but I thought you did an ok job with the two kids. Sain was mostly in character. I rarely used Fiora in FE7 so I can't really comment on whether she was in character or not. Kent, however, seemed pretty out of character to me. His seriousness was one of the trademarks of his personality in the game and he seems to have lost that in this. This seems especially odd since he's now a steward. With Kent's personality, I would expect that increased responsibilty and stress would cause him to grow more a lot more serious rather than less.

With the plot events, there were a few things that struck me as odd. First, I didn't quite understand the altercation with Sain and the guy who is apparently enough of a jerk to wish to beat up a random kid. I just didn't get how a rolling canteen could have injured someone at all, let alone enough to piss them off like it did that guy. The other thing that stood out as odd was Sain's parents' "dark secret." That's...a really weird curse to say the least. I honestly thought Kent was joking at first. Out of all the things this apparently powerful sage could have done to their child, he chose a curse of incessant flirtation? Not death, deformity, mental disability, or something of that nature but an uncontrollable desire to hit on women? I'm not sure if it's what you intended, but to me it sounded like an attempt to excuse the less honorable parts of Sain's character.

To sum up, the biggest flaws in my opinion are the pacing, Kent's character and some of the story events.

Edited March 2, 2013 by KitheOfEvrark

[Anacybele]

I finished reading all three chapters so I thought I'd give my take.

You sure use a LOT of dialogue. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it might make the chapters more interesting if you made the conversation to exposition ratio less imbalanced. As Shuuda described, it makes the pacing feel inconsistant. For example, in the third chapter they spend a really long time over breakfast, then speed through a highlight reel of their trip on the town, then have another fairly extended conversation.

Yeah, you're probably right about that. I really wanted to show the guys catching up and then the kids fighting over Kent though, and couldn't figure out how to balance out so much dialogue. xP

Now for the characters. Children can be a pretty big pitfall, but I thought you did an ok job with the two kids. Sain was mostly in character. I rarely used Fiora in FE7 so I can't really comment on whether she was in character or not. Kent, however, seemed pretty out of character to me. His seriousness was one of the trademarks of his personality in the game and he seems to have lost that in this. This seems especially odd since he's now a steward. With Kent's personality, I would expect that increased responsibilty and stress would cause him to grow more a lot more serious rather than less.

I thought Kent was as serious as he was because there was a big war going on. Yes, he was serious in his duties as steward, but if he's just going on vacation and trying to relax, I don't think he'd need to be that serious anymore.

With the plot events, there were a few things that struck me as odd. First, I didn't quite understand the altercation with Sain and the guy who is apparently enough of a jerk to wish to beat up a random kid. I just didn't get how a rolling canteen could have injured someone at all, let alone enough to piss them off like it did that guy. The other thing that stood out as odd was Sain's parents' "dark secret." That's...a really weird curse to say the least. I honestly thought Kent was joking at first. Out of all the things this apparently powerful sage could have done to their child, he chose a curse of incessant flirtation? Not death, deformity, mental disability, or something of that nature but an uncontrollable desire to hit on women? I'm not sure if it's what you intended, but to me it sounded like an attempt to excuse the less honorable parts of Sain's character.

If you don't like the idea of the curse, that's fine. Not everyone has to like it. But I thought it was a really interesting idea, so I went with it. As for the guy that Sain beat up, he'll later turn out to be a bandit, which explains his behavior.

[monkymeet]

Sorry I can't give a much more detailed critique, but this is a little writing tip.

When writing dialogue, it should be like talking. Are these conversations that people would actually have? Think of your favourite books and how dialogue is handled. Don't fall for the:

"blah blah," she muttered.

"blah blah," he said.

"blah blah," they added.

Just because they said something doesn't mean you have to explain how they said it. Huge conversations in writing are tricky since you don't want to make people just have words thrown at them. The word "said" isn't a bad word, despite what (at least mine did) secondary school teachers tried to force (I think even Hemmingway was quoted that those dialogue words are superfluous, but that might not be the correct author). Varying dialogue with actions, personal thoughts, reflections, general things will spice up conversations. There're ways to have the same conversation conveyed with less dialogue!

(Also, three people conversations are weird if all three have equal parts in the dialogue. I find it difficult to balance, myself)

I guess the biggest suggestion is to pay attention to how your favourite authors handle dialogue and learn from them. John Steinbeck and Douglas Adams are two of mine, and even though they have vastly divergent styles, one can learn from both.

Edited May 29, 2013 by monkymeet

[Anacybele]

Thank you, but I prefer not to use the word said too much. I believe doing so makes it repetitive and boring. I will use it on occasion, however.

Also, I prefer that when people critique me, they also point out a positive thing or two about my work. It makes the whole post less discouraging. Not that you're trying to do so or anything, you're just trying to give me a tip. I'm just saying for future reference.

And I would use favorite authors, but the thing is, I don't have any since I hardly read at all. I just don't like it nearly as much as I do writing. xP

Edited May 29, 2013 by Anacybele

[monkymeet]

Sorry... I understand what you mean by discouraging. I'm an amateur writer who takes it pretty seriously. It's a very personal dream that no one I know personally really supports but I wish I could write novels and share my (sick and dark) ideas with everyone. I'm not foreign to harsh feedback (and I've gotten some really rough ones). But, I honestly believe in order to become a great writer sometimes one has to take some brutal blows... T____T

I really feel that one of the most important things to become an amazing writer is to look at the greats. Don't feel that reading has to be high-brow and pretentious, even dialogue in manga/anime and movies/TV shows can use close attention. Think of it as... why should people read your writing when you don't want to read theirs?

Sorry, I'm a pretty blunt b*tch. I enjoy some of your ideas, and really think you have potential if you are willing to make a serious effort!

(ikexelincia 4eva)

[Anacybele]

Yes! Finally someone here that understands what I'm saying! Others just claim I want people to sugarcoat the truth when that's hardly the case at all. You're absolutely right. I take it seriously too, but knowing what I'm doing correctly is also very helpful. It doesn't hurt to give an artist or writer a little praise once in awhile. It doesn't mean that you're saying the story is omg amazing or that you don't have to add critique to it.

A little harshness does go a long way too. I've listened to some harsh critique in my day and it paid off a lot.

And don't worry, you're not being rude or anything. I'm not offended. :) But, um, I HAVE been making a serious effort...

[Parrhesia]

Thank you, but I prefer not to use the word said too much. I believe doing so makes it repetitive and boring. I will use it on occasion, however.

Oh, come on. Nobody actively gets bored by use of 'said' as opposed to trying desperately to find fifty variants of it, which is honestly just distracting and takes attention away from the dialogue.

[Anacybele]

Oh, come on. Nobody actively gets bored by use of 'said' as opposed to trying desperately to find fifty variants of it, which is honestly just distracting and takes attention away from the dialogue.

It bores me. xP I get tired of seeing it over and over and over and over again. I do still use it occasionally though. It's just part of my writing style that I use said less than other authors, I suppose.

[Life]

So here are my current thoughts (it's a break from my own work and research).

I know that you love long chapters. That's fine. But the format drives my brain crazy and I lose total interest in continuing on. I find that I need to skim your stuff because I just get bored.

My suggestion: Stop double spacing between paragraphs and indent each paragraph. And stop finding synonyms for the word "said". You describe how every single sentence and it just doesn't flow when that happens. Here's a personal example from my own work of how I escaped that second trap.

Dale pressed a button on his phone to buzz his secretary.

“Yes, Mr. Smecker?”

“Cindy, what’s the schedule like today?”

There was a pause as his secretary checked the daily planner. “The Giller meeting is tonight, Mr. Smecker. And Mr. Bullington is also attending.”

The problem with this site is that it's too wide and that makes the format look slightly weird here. But in Microsoft Word, it's hella dope. In addition, I don't feel the need to explain how they're talking because you can imagine it.

This falls under "show, don't tell". You're still telling. Show instead. Let my mind do the work, not my eyes.

EDIT: In addition, you have a very bad habit in your writing. You'll either have a very static conversation (expressed by straight-up back and forth talking with no descriptions for their actions at the same time) or only description. You need to learn to marry the two.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Life

[Anacybele]

I don't know how to indent paragraphs on here the way you can in MS Word. Could you show me? And I tried to use indent tags the way I normally do, but for some reason, they only indent the first paragraph and leave the rest the way it was. :/

As for the said thing, I'm afraid I won't use it more than I already do. I find it boring and repetitive. I even said so in the post above yours. I apologize, but this is a suggestion I simply will never agree to take. I don't mean to be rude or anything.

However, I will try to add more description between dialogue lines, as you said. I do notice that I could do so a little more often, I just find myself at a loss as to what to put there sometimes. I'll do my best to fix this.

Thanks for the advice. :)

Edited November 2, 2013 by Anacybele

[Life]

I don't know how to indent paragraphs on here the way you can in MS Word. Could you show me? And I tried to use indent tags the way I normally do, but for some reason, they only indent the first paragraph and leave the rest the way it was. :/

Use literal spaces. Hit the spacebar about five to ten times (personal preference) and then don't double space between paragraphs. It'll make your life a lot easier.

On Word, I set it for an auto indent of half an inch and use that instead of TAB. I also format my page so that there's no spaceing between lines or paragraphs.

As for the said thing, I'm afraid I won't use it more than I already do. I find it boring and repetitive. I even said so in the post above yours. I apologize, but this is a suggestion I simply will never agree to take. I don't mean to be rude or anything.

That's not what I meant. Rather than find adjectives for "said", describe actions instead of how the person spoke. It changes up the sentence structure and makes it more enjoyable to read. Or describe the situation between sentences. Here's an example from my work.

"Kacie fucking Myers? Are you shitting me?" Matthew was furious. He lit a cigarette and sat down beside Shawn. "This better be a joke."

The dialogue sounds a lot smoother and allows for a lot more imagination just because it allows for proper imagination. It describes the scene but doesn't go into overkill.

However, I will try to add more description between dialogue lines, as you said. I do notice that I could do so a little more often, I just find myself at a loss as to what to put there sometimes. I'll do my best to fix this.

Always a good thing. Read some fiction and look at the way authors write. It's what I do and each time I write something, it sounds better than the last passage.

[Anacybele]

Use literal spaces. Hit the spacebar about five to ten times (personal preference) and then don't double space between paragraphs. It'll make your life a lot easier.

On Word, I set it for an auto indent of half an inch and use that instead of TAB. I also format my page so that there's no spaceing between lines or paragraphs.

Oh! Well duh, why didn't I think of the spacebar? xP

That's not what I meant. Rather than find adjectives for "said", describe actions instead of how the person spoke. It changes up the sentence structure and makes it more enjoyable to read. Or describe the situation between sentences. Here's an example from my work.

The dialogue sounds a lot smoother and allows for a lot more imagination just because it allows for proper imagination. It describes the scene but doesn't go into overkill.

Oh, oh, okay, I see now. My mistake, sorry about that. xP Thanks!

Always a good thing. Read some fiction and look at the way authors write. It's what I do and each time I write something, it sounds better than the last passage.

Okay, gotcha.