Stat Caps and Unit Questions

[Jamesiluce]

Hi so I've been working on chapters for a hack and I was just curious about some things that deal with the stat caps of the units.

1. I haven't altered any of the classes caps as of yet I'm not sure if its a good idea or not so is there anything that I should base that decision on?

2. I'm also not sure whats considered too high of a growth rate for a character I think the ones I picked are ok, some are too high , but no one caps more than four stats on average.

3. The game has 30 playable characters as of now plus one secret character. How many of them should be pretty good compared to others that may suck or just be lacking a little?

4. Should I add more characters? Maybe like secret ones?

5. As of now 18 of the 30 will cap at least one stat on average. 1 will cap 4 stats on average and 3 will cap 3 stats on average. Mostly the speed stat. Is that good or bad?

Any advice or insight would be appreciated.

[Mage Knight 404]

Pretty much every question here is ultimately subjective to the creator's needs. Do you want your units to be really good, high growth units? Do you want to boost the enemies' stats high to compensate? Do you want ~30 player characters? Do you want more? Less? This one should probably coincide with how long your project is; too many units may end up with a bloated cast with excess units of a single class/weapon type, but again, it's up to you, the creator. Are you sure you're okay with 4 stats capping on average? Most will tell you that this is too high, but again, it's what you decide to make of it and do with it.

[Jamesiluce]

Pretty much every question here is ultimately subjective to the creator's needs. Do you want your units to be really good, high growth units? Do you want to boost the enemies' stats high to compensate? Do you want ~30 player characters? Do you want more? Less? This one should probably coincide with how long your project is; too many units may end up with a bloated cast with excess units of a single class/weapon type, but again, it's up to you, the creator. Are you sure you're okay with 4 stats capping on average? Most will tell you that this is too high, but again, it's what you decide to make of it and do with it.

Ya I get that its all subjective. I was kinda looking for other opinions to hep make the game more fun/playable for everyone. I mean personally I don't mind a unit or two caping 4 stats. Honestly it at least makes the game beatable so I don't have to worry too much about the game being too difficult. As for the number of characters I have the game laid out to be 32 chapters. I think thats rather long maybe its not. I hope its not too long and I can't fit it or something. But a new character per map seemed about right numberwise. I don't think I over used any classes most being 3 pegasusknight and 3 bishops. Theres no playable nomad though but I do have 2 archers so I am considering changing one. I also have a soldier unit that I guess I could make into a nomad but I think it would be weird where he is in the game.

Also is it hard to add a preist class from FE8 to the game?

[Agro]

32 chapters is quite long, unless you're doing it FE7/FE10-style and splitting up the cast for a bit. It isn't hard to import the priest class at all, you only need to import the animation and the map sprites.

[Jamesiluce]

32 chapters is quite long, unless you're doing it FE7/FE10-style and splitting up the cast for a bit. It isn't hard to import the priest class at all, you only need to import the animation and the map sprites.

Ya the plan is to split up into 2 groups that in a sense don't even know about enach other until late in the game. And alright that doesnt sound too hard. Idk how to do that yet but at least I know it isnt bad. My other Idea was to take the monk class and split it to where some use lightmagic and others just use staves but I'd have to customize that and I feel thats beyond me at this point.

Is there a specific thing I need to do to keep the characters from losing stats when I switch between the groups?

[GreatEclipse]

Stat caps should only be a major concern if you think anyone can reach them before the game is practically over and you are fighting enemies powerful enough for them to matter. When balancing characters, the whole game needs to be taken into account, not just 20/10-20 stats.

Make as many characters as you can make interesting personalities and/or stat builds for, any more than that is too many. If you have any doubts about particular balancing issues, post the characters in question and I will gladly give my advise.

[Agro]

Is there a specific thing I need to do to keep the characters from losing stats when I switch between the groups?

Currently there are three things you can do: have no prep screen until they meet, use the character banner, or use Lyn's mode. Having no prep screen is probably a bad idea, and Lyn mode is kind of iffy at best; the most I can recommend is using the character banner hack. This will make certain units greyed out in the preps screen and allow you to keep their stats. Only bad thing with this is that 1. you can still trade items and 2. them being in the preps screen kind of implies that they're there.

[Jamesiluce]

Currently there are three things you can do: have no prep screen until they meet, use the character banner, or use Lyn's mode. Having no prep screen is probably a bad idea, and Lyn mode is kind of iffy at best; the most I can recommend is using the character banner hack. This will make certain units greyed out in the preps screen and allow you to keep their stats. Only bad thing with this is that 1. you can still trade items and 2. them being in the preps screen kind of implies that they're there.

In Arch's video he said something about making them into NPC's or something at the end of the chapter then turning them into players in the chapter that uses them. Any ideas about that?

[Agro]

IIRC turning them into NPCs will cause them to be unloaded from the RAM and they'll lose their stats, same as if they turned into enemies.

[Jamesiluce]

Stat caps should only be a major concern if you think anyone can reach them before the game is practically over and you are fighting enemies powerful enough for them to matter. When balancing characters, the whole game needs to be taken into account, not just 20/10-20 stats.

Make as many characters as you can make interesting personalities and/or stat builds for, any more than that is too many. If you have any doubts about particular balancing issues, post the characters in question and I will gladly give my advise.

If the game is 32 chapters there better be a decent number of characters reaching 20/20. granted that one group kinda gets screwed over due to how many chapters they are in but I think I compensated that with more enemies. I have messed with their stats as of yet but I know the first 3 chapters are a breeze and can be soloed by the main character. But that being said I haven't boosted the boss stats like I wanted to yet especially the 1st boss cause right now the only difference between him and his subordinates is his extra 2 Hp. So ya I know I got plenty of fixing to do still.

[Alfred Kamon]

Then how did FE8 manage to have a gaiden chapter with Ephraim and to have prep screen back with Eirika without displaying the units from Ephraim's side till they met later on?

Or am I just confusing things and there wasn't a prep screen at all? (but I was pretty sure there was)

Does FE8 work differently for this?

Edited October 18, 2012 by AlfredKamon

[CT075]

fe8 works differently

i've actually wrote a short doc as well as a modification patch if you want to see the innards

BASICALLY they make use of a unit attribute in memory that FE7 doesn't have

i've been meaning to look into how lyn mode works but i've been too busy asphyxiating myself via homework

[Jamesiluce]

fe8 works differently

i've actually wrote a short doc as well as a modification patch if you want to see the innards

BASICALLY they make use of a unit attribute in memory that FE7 doesn't have

i've been meaning to look into how lyn mode works but i've been too busy asphyxiating myself via homework

James' opinion for spending ur time:

Whatever helps me > things that may help me > random facts > homework

[CT075]

things that affect what i do with my time

paid hacking request >>> school > irl friends > irl distance friends > team overtroll > other online friends > hacking projects > unpaid hacking requests >>>> online people who have opinions about what i do with my time

(not pictured: hacking requests for people who bug me about it without paying, which are so far to the right that this post isn't wide enough to contain it)

Edited October 18, 2012 by CT075

[Jamesiluce]

things that affect what i do with my time

paid hacking request >>> school > irl friends > irl distance friends > team overtroll > other online friends > hacking projects > unpaid hacking requests >>>> online people who have opinions about what i do with my time

(not pictured: hacking requests for people who bug me about it without paying, which are so far to the right that this post isn't wide enough to contain it)

Aww yours is better than mine. O well.

So today I boosted the hp of all enemys on the first map to 100 and played through it. It turns out that my main character can still solo the map without dying if I add another sword to his inventory. He killed everyone on the map minus one guy at 20~ Hp and the boss at full before his weapon broke. Is that too stong of a character to start?

[Agro]

Yes.

[Jamesiluce]

Yes.

I mean he really isnt strong hes got all base myrmidon stats with a lil extra hp its just the base skill and speed are 11 12 compared to everything else at like 2 or 3

[GreatEclipse]

People do in fact perform solo runs, so the fact that someone could pull it off if they have enough patience should not by itself be a problem. If they can achieve a reasonably low turn count at minimal risk with just that one unit, then you need to make some changes. If you want to upload the chapter, I could play it and give my input.

Edited October 19, 2012 by GreatEclipse

[Jamesiluce]

People do in fact perform solo runs, so the fact that someone could pull it off if they have enough patience should not by itself be a problem. If they can achieve a reasonably low turn count at minimal risk with just that one unit, then you need to make some changes. If you want to upload the chapter, I could play it and give my input.

I can do that in a little bit I want to add in the character stat changes in nightmare first that way the boss feels like he is at least a lil stronger than the rest of the enimies. Can you expain to me what I have to do so you can download it? I've never made a patch or anything before.

[GreatEclipse]

A patching tutorial is in the Hacking Resources section. Do not worry, it is not difficult. You then need to upload the patch, something I cannot help you with, having never done it, but again that should not be difficult.

[Jamesiluce]

A patching tutorial is in the Hacking Resources section. Do not worry, it is not difficult. You then need to upload the patch, something I cannot help you with, having never done it, but again that should not be difficult.

well I must be bad at this if I can't figure it out. I followed the tutorial and it wont create a ups just a file that cant be extracted

[Jamesiluce]

Currently there are three things you can do: have no prep screen until they meet, use the character banner, or use Lyn's mode. Having no prep screen is probably a bad idea, and Lyn mode is kind of iffy at best; the most I can recommend is using the character banner hack. This will make certain units greyed out in the preps screen and allow you to keep their stats. Only bad thing with this is that 1. you can still trade items and 2. them being in the preps screen kind of implies that they're there.

Can someone explain how to use the character banner hack? Is is something I need to do myself? And also can someone explain what using Lyn mode would do in this case? I'm not sure how to decide what mode my hack is in either.

[Agro]

The character banner hack involves using a pointer table that gets written to, um... an address. I can't remember which address it was, sorry--if you open up the patch in UPS and used "get patch data" it'll give you a bunch of offsets--one of them will be where it gets written to. If you've got something written there already you can repoint the table in the same way you can repoint the item table or the class table.

Basically at that address you'll make a bunch of pointers that take you to a list of characters that are banned for that chapter. It's a little confusing, so I'll give you a worked example:

55 67 30 08 43 32 56 08 80 70 30 09

This is what it would look like. The first four bytes are a pointer to a list of banned characters for the prologue (i.e. chapter 0x00--it corresponds to the chapter used in the Chapter Data Editor, not the Event Reference Table). So you'd go to address 0x306755 if you wanted to ban some characters from the prologue. Let's say I wanted to ban Isadora, Dart and Legault from the Prologue. At 0x306755, I would write this:

33 34 36 00

The first three bytes are the character numbers. It works similar to the Effective Bonus Pointer in the Item Editor if you've ever used it before. SO this would grey out Isadora, Dart and Legault in the battle preps screen. The 00 is a terminating byte; it tells the game to stop reading for characters.

From this it follows that if you wanted to ban characters for Chapter 1, you'd go to address 0x563243 and do the same, and so on, and so forth.

Using Lyn's mode would just mean that you would have to only use characters in the tutorial slots (i.e. Kent (tutorial), Rath (tutorial), Lyn (tutorial)) for the first however many chapters you want. Then after you're done with that group, you'll have to use Lyn's Mode Ending (the whole credit roll thing at the end of Chapter 10) and then you can switch over to your other group. But you won't be able to switch them back and forth; you can really only do it once.

If your hack started from the Prologue and you haven't used the Start in Eliwood Mode patch then you are most likely in Lyn's mode. Also take a look at the colour of your save in the save menu--IIRC, green means Lyn's mode, Grey is Hector Mode, and blue is Eliwood mode (I could be wrong on this front).

[Jamesiluce]

The character banner hack involves using a pointer table that gets written to, um... an address. I can't remember which address it was, sorry--if you open up the patch in UPS and used "get patch data" it'll give you a bunch of offsets--one of them will be where it gets written to. If you've got something written there already you can repoint the table in the same way you can repoint the item table or the class table.

Basically at that address you'll make a bunch of pointers that take you to a list of characters that are banned for that chapter. It's a little confusing, so I'll give you a worked example:

55 67 30 08 43 32 56 08 80 70 30 09

This is what it would look like. The first four bytes are a pointer to a list of banned characters for the prologue (i.e. chapter 0x00--it corresponds to the chapter used in the Chapter Data Editor, not the Event Reference Table). So you'd go to address 0x306755 if you wanted to ban some characters from the prologue. Let's say I wanted to ban Isadora, Dart and Legault from the Prologue. At 0x306755, I would write this:

33 34 36 00

The first three bytes are the character numbers. It works similar to the Effective Bonus Pointer in the Item Editor if you've ever used it before. SO this would grey out Isadora, Dart and Legault in the battle preps screen. The 00 is a terminating byte; it tells the game to stop reading for characters.

From this it follows that if you wanted to ban characters for Chapter 1, you'd go to address 0x563243 and do the same, and so on, and so forth.

Using Lyn's mode would just mean that you would have to only use characters in the tutorial slots (i.e. Kent (tutorial), Rath (tutorial), Lyn (tutorial)) for the first however many chapters you want. Then after you're done with that group, you'll have to use Lyn's Mode Ending (the whole credit roll thing at the end of Chapter 10) and then you can switch over to your other group. But you won't be able to switch them back and forth; you can really only do it once.

If your hack started from the Prologue and you haven't used the Start in Eliwood Mode patch then you are most likely in Lyn's mode. Also take a look at the colour of your save in the save menu--IIRC, green means Lyn's mode, Grey is Hector Mode, and blue is Eliwood mode (I could be wrong on this front).

is there a limit on how many I can ban? I'm not sure I follow this but thats because I havent messed too much with changing individual pointers. Am I using a hexeditor to make the changes? I'm sure you've explained it well I just havent workd with it yet is all.

[Nintenlord]

is there a limit on how many I can ban? I'm not sure I follow this but thats because I havent messed too much with changing individual pointers.

No.

Am I using a hexeditor to make the changes? I'm sure you've explained it well I just havent workd with it yet is all.

Yes.