Schoolteacher Mafia

[Elieson]

Oh wait Derp misread his role bomb effect.

Still, from my side, godfather !Bal just doesn't make sense compared to a failed scan on you, and you having the only essentially unprovable role.

[scorri]

But seriously. Look at Elie's argument against me. He claims that his action failed against me (can't be proven) and that he should have died if he was the killer. Which is a complete misrep of Manix's role. He's not saying anything about my argument, he's just slinging mud at me.

[Elieson]

Look I'm at work I can post more later.

Why else would I have been redirected, Roleblocked through a complex role combo(during a phase in which no one was confirmed town I might add) and silenced?

[Balcerzak]

N3 I was on Shinori. Shinori was the target of the mafia's kill that evening. There seems little point in redirecting Shinori here, unless they were really paranoid about Shinori blocking the night-kill.

N4 I was on Manix. Manix was cleared by Eli day 3. This implies Eli knew Manix didn't have a NA, and there would be no reason to have the scum team attempt to redirect him.

[scorri]

Elie: Silence makes you look better, you just claim redirected, and as for the roleblock, that's the only one I'm fuzzy on. The only thing I can guess is them hoping to make you look better in case there was a cop cc?

[scorri]

N3: Redirect could have been roleblocked? We've seen that getting killed doesn't stop your night action with Neko and Shinori had always been suspicious of Helios.

N4: Could have hit me?

[Balcerzak]

There's absolutely no reason for Eli to mis-fake-claim Manix's role. What possible benefit could there be that isn't a contradiction.

Scum!Eli:

Misread Manix's role when he copped him, think he kills a la traditional bomb.

Eli is sole remaining scum.

Manix is still chosen to die! Contradiction.

Scum!Eli:

Read Manix's role correctly, but chooses to claim otherwise in a three-man endgame, with one other person who has been almost aggressively tunneling on scorri the whole game, who already has a vote down for her, and who needs no prompting to be convinced. Claims Manix's role did something else, simply so he can verify scorri's bulletproof... which furthers his aims... how?

Town!Eli:

Misread Manix's role when he copped him, didn't bother to read it during the flip.

Occam's Razor approves.

[Balcerzak]

N3: Redirect could have been roleblocked? We've seen that getting killed doesn't stop your night action with Neko and Shinori had always been suspicious of Helios.

N4: Could have hit me?

N3: Helios fakeclaimed not only that he was redirected, but that he was redirected to Kaoz and into a roleblock. He was trying to frame Kaoz for some sort of nexus-like behaviour. He claimed to be almost positive that the roleblock hadn't come from Shinori. Sure he was scum and maybe he was lying, but unless his intent was to soak Shinori's roleblock for no real reason...? I mean, nobody else was claimed roleblocked that night, AFAIK.

N4: You claimed bulletproof in-thread on Day 3. What possible motive would Helios have to redirect a town bulletproof onto anywhere else? The bulletproof ain't going nowhere. That's worse than just idling, as he could have been caught in the act by Kaoz, the tracker.

[scorri]

[Shinori]

I love you so much.

[scorri]

(Thank eclipse for that song)

[Balcerzak]

I could conceivably unvote until Eli isn't at work and can address the topic with his full attention. I'm honestly not sure what good that would do however.

The fact is, as soon as this day phase cropped up, immediately after Eli claimed only the name of the person he scanned, you leapt to vote on Eli.

Ordinarily a member of the town would assume upon not seeing their own name come up in the scan, that perhaps Eli is trying to taunt the scum he found before delivering judgement. That's what I would assume, at any rate, and I would either hold off voting until more information, or simply go ahead with the cross-vote and wait for judgement rendered.

A member of the scumteam however, would instantly realized they're fucked, and unable to cross-vote with the other man in the three-way, would immediately need to rush to vote for the cop.

[scorri]

If you noticed, Elie called out Pablo and then taunted me. That's where I made the leap.

[Balcerzak]

Let's look back to the Silence.

Suppose you're mafia this game. You've had a relatively bang-up job so far. A smashing success. Aside from the one lucky vig-shot N1, you haven't lost a member, and your opposition the cult have been eliminated. It's 9-man today, and you've got a team of 3.

Kaoz is criminally inactive and unlikely to vote, maybe Rocker too. If you send in your silence, then you're likely at 3 out of six, a stall majority, or at least a very good chance of if you play your cards right pushing another successful mislynch. It's getting rather late in the game though, and slip-ups and tells have been piling up, so you need your full strength in case you have to divert someone from looking too hard at one of your members.

So, you do the only natural thing, and you decide to silence on of your own.

...right?

[scorri]

And then it comes down to this situation and lo and behold, it works. The scum team counterclaimed each other. I'm pretty sure they're at a point where we can't predict what they'd do.

[scorri]

Look, I'm aware I'm probably not going to change your mind. You've been tunneling me all game and Elie just confirmed you as town. In your eyes, there's literally no reason you shouldn't be voting me. I've made my argument and I've done all I can. Like it or not, there's nothing really left I can do.

[Balcerzak]

##Unvote:

I'm going to go back and run through the vote history one more time. I'll let Elieson press the case for awhile.

[scorri]

He's not pressing the case. He's sitting back, mostly ignoring my accusations and letting you do all the work. Though at least some of that can be explained by him being at work.

[Elieson]

I'll be home in one hour. One quick thing though. If the redirector idled on te night i was rolebloked through Shinori, why didnt he use his alternative, killing role?

[scorri]

How do you know he didn't?

[scorri]

No, wait, seriously.

- During the night, you may respond to your role PM with "Night X - Catch, <PLAYER>!" You will use your throwable blade to kill <PLAYER>. Since this is a throwing weapon with amazing accuracy, any attempts to trace the kill back to you will fail. You may only use this ONCE, and this will replace the mafia kill.

How in the world do you know the Helios didn't use his special kill? It's a ninja kill. There's no way you could know if he used it or not.

[scorri]

Ok, well, I'm heading to sleep. I'll be around tomorrow evening.

[Elieson]

So, this is just one example I found of Elie saying one thing and then a short time later saying something completely different. The time in between these quotes was ~40 minutes and he goes from saying Rocker should out his targets only if he was successful and then says he wants Rocker to out his targets.

Another example of a switch like this is with SB. He goes from "SB should get lynched" to "Well, my case on SB was bad, so one of Helios, Kaoz, or scorri should be lynched because they're who people are voting for" to switching back to Bananas for... the exact same reasons he'd been on him in the first place, but this time leaves himself open to being able to switch to someone else.

Also, have some

Did I say that? Really? The underlined part above. Please show me where I told him to out his targets only if he was successful. I said post targets and if he was successful. I asked for all the information, not some on some sort of conditional situation. I was asking this to learn if there is some other form of roleblocking/redirection/safeguard/whatever. It turns out Kay had a self scan-dodge, so I don't know what else is out there. Bal already covered this, but I wanted to clarify for myself, since I was the one who said it and all.

Think; Look at the flips for a second. Rocker was doc. Manix can't screw with an action taking place, Kay couldn't aside from stopping a killed player from dying temporarily, and I've already shown myself as capable of scanning players. This leaves either you with some sort of reflexive scan-block or role block or something, or TownSG!Bal lied and targetted you instead of Rocker. Now, based on my scan, it's 2:1. Otherwise it'd be game over. The only way I thought Bal could possibly be scum was if he was allied with you and he Safeguarded you the other night, but he didn't. This is essentially all the proof I need, because you're still lying about your role, unless town!Bal honestly made a derp and lied about it for whateverthefuck reason. My N5 scan failed, and look who was alive during that night.

Your case on me banks on Balcerzak being a liar, due to the results which have occurred. I failed my N5 scan, and Bal claims to have targetted Rocker to ensure that I could be protected to get my scan off (when the Redirector was already dead). I targetted you, scorri, and failed. If I had information on you, and got a town scan, I'd have cleared you publically, as I did for Manix and Bal (and Prims, though I wasn't actually clearing him). I have absolutely no motivation to run a scan and not actually out the results with myself being successful. You're also doubting the claim that Shinori claimed being redirected to me, on a night in which I got no results from a scan. Why would I work to actually get myself redirected? I can't think of a possible benefit of that even occuring? I really can't think of one. Scum hasn't flipped anything with informative roles, ajd Watcher and Tracker were both town, so even if I were scum, I wouldn't even learn anything about other town roles by getting myself hooked and having it provable by multiple players.

I cannot see the benefit of actually doing that.

N1, Prims scan successful, I haven't outted that I'm cop yet.

N2, Kaoz scan failure, due to Shinori's RB being redirected to me (SB and Shinori both outting that I was visited by Shinori and Shinori only).

N3, Manix scan success, but I come back into the game silenced.

N4, Balcerzak scan success/failure, redirected to Rocker so I learned Rocker's role (already proven, rendering me absolutely useless)

N5, scorri scan failure, ???Reasons???

N6, Balcerzak scan success, no fuckups.

If I were to have been lying all this time, you insist on pushing that I indeed coordinated getting myself roleblocked, silenced, redirected, and then somehow again coming up with a failed scan before getting Balc's role on my second attempt (why would I scan you again, I already failed once after the redirector and roleblocker were killed, and I already knew Manix's role). You're sitting here, telling me and Bal, that I intentionally sabotaged my own scan (proven), and then took 3 night phases of intentional failure, in order to try to make myself look good. There's only 3 of us left, and I've got a town result on Bal, who did the obvious thing on multiple occasions. He cannot possibly be your scumbuddy now, so lying from him means absolutely nothing. If he wanted me dead, he'd have safeguarded me (and probably Rocker too) at any point so scum could kill me without protection or watch or whatever.

And here you are, still the only player with a passive role, swearing up and down that I staged this. That I staged myself actually getting myself roleblocked by Townori. Can you please tell me on what logical premise that sabotaging myself is good for anything, especially when it's been proven?

I say again, nice try. Your behavior in the thread is one thing, but you're pointing fingers at things which don't actually make sense when you look at the outted results thus far.

[scorri]

1) Yeah, Bal already pointed out that I misread your post there. Sorry, my mistake. Like I had said though, that was only one example.

2) You keep on talking about these results like they're a sure thing. The only ones we know for sure are that you visited Manix and then were silenced (which doesn't actually screw with your results you claimed) and that you were roleblocked by Shinori once. Every other time you've claimed something went wrong, we don't know for sure that it did. Stop trying to prove your innocence with improvable results.

3) Way to ignore that little slip of yours there, by the way. Please, enlighten me. How do you know that Helios didn't use his ninja kill one of those nights that we saw no redirect?

[Elieson]

N1: Helios roleblocked

N2: roleblock redirected to Eli. Shinori confirms, and was not scum.

N3: Helios "claims" redirected, must have idled

N4: Eli claims redirected.

N2 is the most suspicious link to me here, as not only does this waste scum!Helios's action, but also scum!Elieson's.

Fuck i had a big post and it shit on my face.

Balcerzak said in that post, and at least one other, that Helios must have idled.

You said repeatedly that Helios lied. He's scum, it's pretty obvious that he's a liar.

N3, Helios claimed to have been redirected to Kaoz, so I'm assuming he lied since Helios flipped scum and no one else claimed redirected. Therefore, I'm assuming he used his Ninja-kill because there's nothing saying that he did or didn't. It's either that, or he targetted Kay/Manix/you with a redirect (which by PoE, I'm highly doubting he would've targetted you).

So scorri, I have no fucking clue if he did or not. Since Bal seems so sure that he Idled, and you are so sure that he lied (kind of a given based on what's happened), I'm doing simple math and working with what's out there, that you and Balcerzak have been discussing. I don't know if he idled or targetted a passive role like Manix or Kay or used his ninja kill, but I'm pretty damn sure that townBP!scorri and townSG!Balwouldn't know either. He either idled (pointless for scum), took a risk and redirected an -at the time unknown- passive, or used the Ninja-kill. Go ahead and tell me what you honestly think he did, based on what's turned up.

So I ask again. If you're so sure that Helios did or didn't use his ninja kill or idle or whatever then are you equally sure that I've lied about myself being hit by redirects and roleblocks and all that jazz on multiple occassions (especially the super complicated ShinoriRB scenario in which was proven by 2 now-confirmed players)