Connecticut Elementary School Shooting

[Constable Reggie]

What argument against guns? After asking a few questions about gun control (in a pretty laughable way), he insults the interviewee in an incredibly pathetic manner.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Original Alear]

I think Piers Morgan deserves a medal for sticking to his guns in the whole debate on gun control. The petition to get him deported just because he is arguing against guns was laughable, and not to mention totally contradictory to the first amendment. Hypocritical.

Lol. The first amendment is not "all US citizens should uphold the free speech of all people within the territory of the US at all times."

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

We reserve the right to deport. Especially someone who still serves the crown of England! :P The government is the expression of our (the citizens) will. Not of your (a noncitizen's) privileges when you visit here.

(hahaha so how did that bluff go?)

But actually, I believe that some of what I just said does hold true, and trying to wave the rights we guarantee to ourselves as those you also must have while here, is irrelevant, and even laughable. Mind, the 1st amendment has meaning to me personally, so on that level, I'm pretty much with you.

But still, I still agree that the petition was likely laughable and stupid and meanspirited. It's absolutely against any kind of positive spirit I can imagine, that a journalist and TV host - especially one with a decent tenure in the US - would have such actions directed against him by citizens of the US. I feel I can say this freely, without even having read anything he said. Even if he said something dumb, mean, insensitive, or whatever, he should probably be treated like any US-born journalist who said such things.

I don't think he deserves a medal, however. Using free speech in the face of criticism by meanspirited morons is not "medal" material, IMO. In fact, simply having the freedom to speak is not validation of one's words.

(If you disagree, assess how you feel about my posts, and then tell me how you feel about my freedom of speech. I mean, Tangy or whoever could easily delete this, but I'm saying what I want. Do you think my posts generally honor the dignity of human existence, fulfill the intent that created the granting of rights to my person, etc., in the USA? I'd tell you they do the opposite.)

I admit I haven't read his statements, nor have I actually looked into anything you are talking about. If you give me some quotes, maybe I could give you my opinion on whether someone who spends time talking about an issue everyone is talking about and gets some flak for doing so and doesn't back down deserves a medal, because he managed to do so while on TV.

(But further on down the line, if change is felt to occur, I guess we could talk medals.)

I will note that Michael Savage (a conservative talk radio host I do not much care for), who comes across as a very hateful man, is supposedly "banned" in the UK.

http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom

I would suggest that open borders are just as important as free speech, and it's terrible that this man (terrible as he is) would not be able to enter another country on the basis of his speech, hatred, paranoia, loathing, whatever, of other people. I agree the incitement of hatred and violence is troublesome, and scary. As to whether his presence on some sort of banlist is hypocritical, I can't say, as I know nothing about the laws and values of the United Kingdom on the level that I can address selectively closed borders against someone like this. Certainly the US lacks open borders from a legal standpoint, and others, and has their own watchlist (IIRC, Sufjan Stevens AKA Cat Stevens was on it because he made a hateful comment about Salman Rushdie when a fatwa was issued against Rushdie).

Edited January 10, 2013 by Mouse

[Anouleth]

let's not give piers moron any medals ever ok

[Constable Reggie]

I admit I haven't read his statements, nor have I actually looked into anything you are talking about. If you give me some quotes, maybe I could give you my opinion on whether someone who spends time talking about an issue everyone is talking about and gets some flak for doing so and doesn't back down deserves a medal, because he managed to do so while on TV.

The interview the petition was a reaction to was pretty hilarious to watch, to say the least. Instead of debating Pratt's argument or even acting somewhat professionally, he basically devolves into a blundering idiot spewing insults everywhere.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Raven]

let's not give piers moron any medals ever ok

I was exaggerating with the medal thing, but his decision to not be swayed by the gun-loving communities of the USA, and keeping his head (literally) with the whole deporting thing is quite commendable, I think. He is saying what many people think with regard to this debate.

Edit: Also, the Alex Jones - Piers Morgan "debate". I feel embarrassed for Alex Jones just watching it.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Raven

[Constable Reggie]

Alex Jones is just as big an idiot as Piers Morgan is. That doesn't mean Pierce Morgan is still not a huge idiot. I still can't believe you find him commendable. Ad hominem attacks when faced with a rational pro-gun argument is commendable?

Edited January 10, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Anouleth]

alex jones is a bigger idiot i think, at least piers moron isn't a nutjob conspiracy theorist

[Raven]

Alex Jones is just as big an idiot as Piers Morgan is. That doesn't mean Pierce Morgan is still not a huge idiot. I still can't believe you find him commendable. Ad hominem attacks when faced with a rational pro-gun argument is commendable?

I don't follow Piers at all. This gun debate's the first time he's properly popped up on my radar, so this is my first impression I've had of him. He's lobbying for assault rifles to be banned, which is something I agree with. Whatever else he's said or done in the past, I'm not aware of.

[Anouleth]

I don't follow Piers at all. This gun debate's the first time he's properly popped up on my radar, so this is my first impression I've had of him. He's lobbying for assault rifles to be banned, which is something I agree with. Whatever else he's said or done in the past, I'm not aware of.

piers moron used to be a writer and editor for various british tabloids. it's claimed by some that he was involved in phonehacking. he's also known for a long-running feud with ian hislop (editor of the Private Eye).

[Constable Reggie]

So apparently anyone who wants stricter gun control, you commend? Because I personally discredited his stupid ass regarding the topic when he showed he can't properly debate rational gun advocates and has to bring in literal nut jobs just to look good.

Do you commend Mrs.

? Should she get a medal? Edited January 10, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Raven]

piers moron used to be a writer and editor for various british tabloids. it's claimed by some that he was involved in phonehacking. he's also known for a long-running feud with ian hislop (editor of the Private Eye).

Ah... the phone hacking scandal. That was an interesting time. Okay cheers for the background info on this guy. I'll look him up some more in my spare time. Probably tomorrow when I'm bored at work.

So apparently anyone who wants stricter gun control, you commend? Because I personally discredited his stupid ass regarding the topic when he showed he can't properly debate rational gun advocates and has to bring in literal nut jobs just to look good.

Do you commend Mrs.

? Should she get a medal?

Whoever this woman is, if she is responsible for a piece of legislation, she should at least know what all the articles being affected are. So no, no medal for her. In a previous post I stated that my medal comment was exaggerated, so how about chilling a bit and take that comment with a pinch of salt. I'm simply saying I agree with Piers' views regarding better control of assault rifles and large-capacity magazine clips, which is across the lines of what Obama himself is pushing for, is it not? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Constable Reggie]

I wasn't expecting you to take the medal comment so seriously.

Instead of actually defending the reasons behind his idea of banning assault weapons/magazines, he basically just attacked the other side personally (not their argument). I don't find that commendable and see no reason to agree with his assertion when he can't back it up and makes an idiot of himself.

[Anouleth]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20975608

'the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun'

or, apparently, the stern, commanding voice of a teacher

"The teacher, who had been grazed by a pellet, then intervened. He is reported by US media to have warned the suspect that there would be no shooting in his class, at which point the gunman put down his weapon and police officers arrested him."

see, declaring schools to be gun-free zones works

Edited January 11, 2013 by Anouleth

[Constable Reggie]

Man, why didn't the Sandy Hook teachers think of that? It's so obvious!

[Rehab]

I've heard at least in one instance that an appeal to empathy actually can stop some attackers, as in somebody got a person who was mugging her to stop and run away, just by yelling something along the lines, "Ow! You're hurting [might've been stabbed] me! I'm bleeding! Why are you doing this?!" at him. It's a lucky thing the shooter there didn't have enough conviction to ignore the teacher.

[Raven]

I wonder how many people are out and about during the day wondering, maybe even being fearful, of someone opening fire whilst they attend school, go to the shops, or even the cinema. I find it unnerving. I believe I'd be constantly on the lookout for anything and everything suspicious. Much like going through a busy market area with parked vehicles in Pakistan. But I don't live in the USA, or Pakistan for that matter, so what do I know. You can't outthink a bullet, so why bother thinking about such things. Deal with it if/when it does happen. C'est la vie.

Maybe people of the USA can tell me how they feel when they go about their daily lives, school, shopping, cinema, anything involving leaving the house, and why they feel this way.

[Constable Reggie]

I don't, because I'm not paranoid. Massive school/mall/theater/etc shootings are not an everyday occurrence, contrary to popular belief.

[Esau of Isaac]

I wonder how many people are out and about during the day wondering, maybe even being fearful, of someone opening fire whilst they attend school, go to the shops, or even the cinema. I find it unnerving. I believe I'd be constantly on the lookout for anything and everything suspicious. Much like going through a busy market area with parked vehicles in Pakistan. But I don't live in the USA, or Pakistan for that matter, so what do I know. You can't outthink a bullet, so why bother thinking about such things. Deal with it if/when it does happen. C'est la vie.

Maybe people of the USA can tell me how they feel when they go about their daily lives, school, shopping, cinema, anything involving leaving the house, and why they feel this way.

Oh yeah, that's the US for you. Every day I drive to work I take care to scan the roadside for roving gangs of bandits armed with AK47s, and smartly remember to keep my trusty RPG buckled tightly in the backseat in case of emergency. I also take care to keep my Kevlar vest properly secured at all times. It's rare when dealing with customers that I am not shot at point-blank range at some point in the day, so I have to remember to take all necessary precautions to survive in daily life.

Such is the dog eat dog world of the United States. If only we could live in Eudaimonic harmony like more civil countries such as the UK. Alas. *sigh*

[Duff Ostrich]

My new toy:

Should the text of Mrs. Feinstein's bill put a harsh limit on magazine size (10 is the number being thrown around) it will be too late to stop me from enjoying every one of the twenty rifle rounds this beautiful thing is capable of carrying. If not, or if the bill fails, then its all the same to me, because I've been saving up for this gun for eight months.

The gun shop I was at was actually selling a 30 round magazine for the Five-Seven, but I didn't want to spend another hundred dollars.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Duff Ostrich

[eclipse]

I wonder how many people are out and about during the day wondering, maybe even being fearful, of someone opening fire whilst they attend school, go to the shops, or even the cinema. I find it unnerving. I believe I'd be constantly on the lookout for anything and everything suspicious. Much like going through a busy market area with parked vehicles in Pakistan. But I don't live in the USA, or Pakistan for that matter, so what do I know. You can't outthink a bullet, so why bother thinking about such things. Deal with it if/when it does happen. C'est la vie.

Maybe people of the USA can tell me how they feel when they go about their daily lives, school, shopping, cinema, anything involving leaving the house, and why they feel this way.

Guns? What are those? I'm far more afraid of bad drivers than guns. Hell, my LUNCH has a higher probability of killing me than a madman with a firearm.

Don't believe everything the news tells you.

[Raven]

I don't, because I'm not paranoid. Massive school/mall/theater/etc shootings are not an everyday occurrence, contrary to popular belief.

I appreciate that fact. However they happen a lot more than I feel comfortable with.

Oh yeah, that's the US for you. Every day I drive to work I take care to scan the roadside for roving gangs of bandits armed with AK47s, and smartly remember to keep my trusty RPG buckled tightly in the backseat in case of emergency. I also take care to keep my Kevlar vest properly secured at all times. It's rare when dealing with customers that I am not shot at point-blank range at some point in the day, so I have to remember to take all necessary precautions to survive in daily life.

Such is the dog eat dog world of the United States. If only we could live in Eudaimonic harmony like more civil countries such as the UK. Alas. *sigh*

I had no idea it was that bad. There's no need to take such precautionary action, surely.

And don't worry, the UK is not exactly a haven of safety either. People get knifed every day. My stab vest's always on.

My new toy:

Should the text of Mrs. Feinstein's bill put a harsh limit on magazine size (10 is the number being thrown around) it will be too late to stop me from enjoying every one of the twenty rifle rounds this beautiful thing is capable of carrying. If not, or if the bill fails, then its all the same to me, because I've been saving up for this gun for eight months.

The gun shop I was at was actually selling a 30 round magazine for the Five-Seven, but I didn't want to spend another hundred dollars.

That looks nice... I can't read the details on the gun due to image size so I'm gonna have to ask you what it is. If handguns were legal to own here, I think I'd go for a Walther P99. Has been a personal favourite of mine since I owned a BB replica of it when I was about 13.

Guns? What are those? I'm far more afraid of bad drivers than guns. Hell, my LUNCH has a higher probability of killing me than a madman with a firearm.

Don't believe everything the news tells you.

You're right. I guess those kids were just unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Such is life.

[Anouleth]

My new toy:

Guns are not toys, and if people think they are, they should have no problem with the government placing restrictions on their "toys".

Should the text of Mrs. Feinstein's bill put a harsh limit on magazine size (10 is the number being thrown around) it will be too late to stop me from enjoying every one of the twenty rifle rounds this beautiful thing is capable of carrying. If not, or if the bill fails, then its all the same to me, because I've been saving up for this gun for eight months.

And how, exactly will you be enjoying these bullets?

The gun shop I was at was actually selling a 30 round magazine for the Five-Seven, but I didn't want to spend another hundred dollars.

It's just a toy, anyway. No need to break the bank, right?

[Esau of Isaac]

He is very obviously joking with the use of the word "toy," Anouleth. He's calling it a toy in the same way I'd call a new hot rod a toy.

Also:

And how, exactly will you be enjoying these bullets?

Obviously by shooting up the nearest school crammed full of children.

[Duff Ostrich]

That looks nice... I can't read the details on the gun due to image size so I'm gonna have to ask you what it is. If handguns were legal to own here, I think I'd go for a Walther P99. Has been a personal favourite of mine since I owned a BB replica of it when I was about 13.

It's the FN Five-Seven, known to be popular with law enforcement and therefore automatically popular with everyone else. FN as a company (found in Belgium) is really cool because at least one factory deliberately sabotaged their product as a means of fighting German occupation.

My dad has a Walther PPK, and he loves it. I don't know much about the P99 other than its another James Bond gun (which is cool anyway) and its issued to German police.

Guns are not toys, and if people think they are, they should have no problem with the government placing restrictions on their "toys".

I was being facetious, but I don't understand the logic of your statement. I most certainly do have a problem with the government putting restrictions on my toys. Video games are a good example.

And I suppose it is worth noting that recreation and responsibility are not mutually exclusive. Not being a hunter, I can only legally use my gun for recreational purposes, and as someone who doesn't actually want to shoot living creatures I am completely okay with that.

And how, exactly will you be enjoying these bullets?

By remorselessly murdering target paper. Some people prefer human silhouettes or images of shambling zombies, but I like having several standard targets on one sheet. That way I get to dedicate one target per gun I bring with me, and see which I was most accurate with. Usually that distinction goes to my dad's Smith and Wesson M&P Pro, though I now suspect that the Five-Seven will set the new standard.

No need to break the bank, right?

...That was the idea, yes.

[Original Alear]

I wonder how many people are out and about during the day wondering, maybe even being fearful, of someone opening fire whilst they attend school, go to the shops, or even the cinema. I find it unnerving. I believe I'd be constantly on the lookout for anything and everything suspicious. Much like going through a busy market area with parked vehicles in Pakistan. But I don't live in the USA, or Pakistan for that matter, so what do I know. You can't outthink a bullet, so why bother thinking about such things. Deal with it if/when it does happen. C'est la vie.

Maybe people of the USA can tell me how they feel when they go about their daily lives, school, shopping, cinema, anything involving leaving the house, and why they feel this way.

I can't think of any time I've actually worried about anything like that for a significant duration, except around 9/11 (I live about an hour from NYC and my dad was at work in Manhattan) when I was in middle school. Sometimes I do spend some time thinking about escape routes. And I know my dad spends or spent time wondering why grand central and penn station were never attacked, and about the security measures around his own building. He doesn't seem to spend as much time thinking about gun control, though. My mom works across the river from the city, I'm pretty sure she could see the towers hit. And I don't think my dad had a cell phone at the time. I also knew other people who had folks in the city. And I was totally stupid and confused at the time, and had no idea what was going on.

And, also, the same day, I went to a wake (or a funeral, if you don't know what wakes are) for a kid (younger than I am now, probably a freshman in college) who had died, IIRC, on 9/11, perhaps a short time before the planes hit, while jogging with a friend. Heart just stopped. It was a strange juxtaposition for him to be dead, and for 9/11 to have happened on the same day.

As for myself, I've had more things that feel like close shaves with weather than bullets. Like a downed power line in my back yard during a winter storm, the year before Sandy that started an electrical fire.

Incidentally, people on the other side of the line have a tree with branches that go down, and didn't get the tree or the branches taken down, and the branches went down again during sandy. We didn't have an electrical fire during sandy, though.

And a while ago, when I was in New Hampshire with a friend who lives there, a black bear (mother) and 2 cubs were probably around 20-40 ft from us. I had always heard that was the "maximal" environment for a mother bear to attack, but actually she and the cubs ran off (and we in the other direction). I suppose I'm glad we didn't have his guns on us at that time? I don't think I would have shot anyway.

You know, part of it is pretty fucking simple. It's not that safe to drive, or be in the car, or cross the street, and that doesn't stop me from going places. I can see why gun control might help things become more safe. But the fact that there could be additional safety doesn't mean that the lack of perfect safety drives me to an intense fear of being shot at any time. That's because there's no such thing as 100% safety, being as YOU and ME will both die (or so I have reason to believe).

Not only do I go to such events as you describe without care, but I also went to the 9/11 memorial garden when it opened. I can't say it was astoundingly moving, but it was a touching experience.

To be fair, being gunned down seems more likely for me than being in a building when a plane crashes into it. But the CT massacre didn't make me fear for my safety...what made me scared were some footage of scared children who had survived the attack, particularly one girl that looked like a 1st grader in a class I had taught as an assistant teacher in sunday school years ago (like back when I was in high school), and a parent who said he felt most helpless finding out that the school his child attended had been attacked, but that he was given no information at the time about the safety of his child(ren). I was reassured somewhat by later thinking and reconsideration, however. Still, even though those connections weren't logical, and I don't remember anything about the student I actually taught anymore, it still hurt to remember how sweet kids that age are, and to think about them going through something like that. As well as to think, if I was scared or hurt at all, what it must be like for a parent, not just one involved in the massacre, but any parent.

I mean, jeez, remember the subway bombings in London and Spain (...Barcelona?)? I'm not reminding you of 'em cuz they're in Britain or Europe, for all I know there've been bombings in the US subs too - I'm just saying, I think I'd rather try and escape a shooter or two with high powered weapons than be trapped underground.

But I still use subways. And in fact, some of the many fun moments I've had in my life involved getting on and off subways.

Now I'm pretty sure none of this defends the right to bear arms or anything else involving policy recommendations, I'm just trying to explain some of the feelings I have related to tragedies, and why for me, it's more valuable to be more inclusive, more accepting.

As for guns I guess I'd go with a mauser rifle if I had to buy a weapon (i.e., was conscripted into a militia or something). I don't know the name or the make or whatever, but it smells particularly terrible when fired, was used during world war ii, and hurts me when I fire it.

Ah and mouse maus mauser.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Mouse