MarkyJoe1990's Fire Emblem Hack Reviews (Video Series)

[SB.]

What hacks actually do you like though? I don't ever remember seeing you go "oh, I like this hack".

[Klokinator]

He loves DotF. He can't stop playing it!

[Parrhesia]

So what you're saying is that all your talk about being so great and so much better at design than everyone else is backed up by precisely fuck-all?

[MarkyJoe1990]

What hacks actually do you like though? I don't ever remember seeing you go "oh, I like this hack".

It's hard for me to say. Most hacks have some severely crippling flaws. While Project Z is the closest thing that I want out of the community conceptually (Varied, creative level design ideas, amusing colorful cast of goofballs, etc.), it's done extremely poorly.

I kind of liked Dondon's project (I played an earlier version, mind you), but it's marred by lots of trial and error difficulty that don't add challenge, and instead pad out the time you spend playing it. When you know what to do though, it's very satisfying to conquer the challenges tossed at you, and it's clearly VERY carefully thought out.

Dream of Five (Again, earlier version)... I give it a lot of flack, but if it tried to make the characters a bit more likable and compressed the level design a bit, and fixed some of the other, more minor flaws, I'd call it the definitive commercial-styled fire emblem hack. It does a lot of things well, but... it's just an extreme chore to play, especially when you get to the maps that make FE6's maps look god damn microscopic.

Nintenlord Saga is... well it's kind of a similar boat to Project Z, but more diluted. Fairly creative designs, but kind of meh in execution, and some levels have outright offensive designs.

So uh... yeah. While I give Dream of Five a lot of flack, I don't hate it nearly as much as I let on. I consider it the best Fire Emblem hack out there, but it's... just kinda meh.

EDIT:

So what you're saying is that all your talk about being so great and so much better at design than everyone else is backed up by precisely fuck-all?

Most critics don't make what they criticize. That said, I've made a bunch of bad-mediocre quality hacks, and two that I consider good, but aren't finished (Fire Mumblem: Revised Edition and Fire Mumblem: Chronicles of Lussaria).

So yes. I do have something to back this up. Of course, you could play Fire Mumblem: Revised Edition or Fire Mumblem: Chronicles of Lussaria and see for yourself. Maybe you won't like them. Good! Tell me why so I can improve it (Preferably the latter game, since the former isn't being worked on anymore). I crave perfection, and anything you say will help.

Edited March 4, 2014 by MarkyJoe1990

[Siuloir]

So what you're saying is that all your talk about being so great and so much better at design than everyone else is backed up by precisely fuck-all?

Siskel and Ebert didn't direct films. Did that make them unqualified to review them?

While I think MarkyJoe can at times be a little harsh, considering that the writing he examines is Fire Emblem, rather than say, George R.R. Martin/Steven Eriksen/Patrick Rothfuss etc. al, I don't think his arguments are 100% fallacious. Even Blazing Sword, which is lauded for its story, has a ton of issues. That said, I also have considerably different conceptual wants than he does.

It's also worth keeping in mind that the majority of people scriptwriting for hacks are relatively young, far moreso than the average author or game designer.

[Arch]

I wanted to give you the opportunity to prove your superiority. It didn't have to be about popularity, it's about putting up or shutting up.

[MarkyJoe1990]

I wanted to give you the opportunity to prove your superiority. It didn't have to be about popularity, it's about putting up or shutting up.

Then why would you base the value of any level I make on majority vote? Popularity can play a huge influence on how that plays out. =\ Edited March 4, 2014 by MarkyJoe1990

[Arch]

It's easy to conduct a blind poll; the authorship didn't even have to be mentioned. It could've just been framed as "the original vs. the proposed revamp." It's a cop-out, Marc.

[MarkyJoe1990]

... I need to think about that one. I'm unsure of whether I think you're right or not. I find it to be a cop-out to shirk criticism and challenge someone to do your work for you instead of considering whether what they have to say is valid or not.

Additionally, I really don't want to design a chapter for your project because of the potential risk of time wasted, but if it's good, and there IS justice in this world, that won't be a problem, and more people will take me seriously.

So. Let me think about this a bit more. I'm starting to think I am copping out, but maybe I'm just irrationally intimidated that people will think I'm some coward barking in the dark corner.

Edited March 4, 2014 by MarkyJoe1990

[Klokinator]

To be fair, you dish out the criticism and bash people's projects all the time for various reasons and nothing seems to please you. While I don't find you to be the ultimate authority on game balance or lack thereof, I think that for once putting your money where your mouth is and showing what you deem to be a "good" level of design would certainly help your cause a lot more than this back-and-forthing.

Like it or hate it, Astra has put a lot of time into his game. Arch has put probably more time into his creative and innovative projects than the next two guys combined, and constantly bashing them without showing exactly where they're going wrong is just making you look bad in the long run. If you came out with a better revised version of, say, the first three DoF chapters, or of whatever EN chapter you're referring to, people would take you more seriously than they're doing right now.

Actions speak louder than words.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Klok

[MarkyJoe1990]

To be fair, you dish out the criticism and bash people's projects all the time for various reasons and nothing seems to please you. While I don't find you to be the ultimate authority on game balance or lack thereof, I think that for once putting your money where your mouth is and showing what you deem to be a "good" level of design would certainly help your cause a lot more than this back-and-forthing.

Like it or hate it, Astra has put a lot of time into his game. Arch has put probably more time into his creative and innovative projects than the next two guys combined, and constantly bashing them without showing exactly where they're going wrong is just making you look bad in the long run. If you came out with a better revised version of, say, the first three DoF chapters, or of whatever EN chapter you're referring to, people would take you more seriously than they're doing right now.

Actions speak louder than words.

Alright. I downloaded Elibian Nights again. I want to fix Raven's chapter. I presume beating Hector's tale will bring me to it after completion?

[Arch]

I find it to be a cop-out to shirk criticism and challenge someone to do your work for you instead of considering whether what they have to say is valid or not.

Additionally, I really don't want to design a chapter for your project because of the potential risk of time wasted, but if it's good, and there IS justice in this world, that won't be a problem, and more people will take me seriously.

So. Let me think about this a bit more. I'm starting to think I am copping out, but maybe I'm just irrationally intimidated that people will think I'm some coward barking in the dark corner.

I've listened to criticisms and responded where I've felt criticisms were valid, and prided myself on being open to radical changes for the sake of improving quality. It isn't a cop-out on my part.

And I'd just like to clarify one thing; it isn't a question of "justice," it's a question of merit. This is a chance to prove that you aren't a coward barking in the dark corner.

Raven's Tale will unlock after you clear the first three.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Arch

[Siuloir]

To be fair, you dish out the criticism and bash people's projects all the time for various reasons and nothing seems to please you. While I don't find you to be the ultimate authority on game balance or lack thereof, I think that for once putting your money where your mouth is and showing what you deem to be a "good" level of design would certainly help your cause a lot more than this back-and-forthing.

Like it or hate it, Astra has put a lot of time into his game. Arch has put probably more time into his creative and innovative projects than the next two guys combined, and constantly bashing them without showing exactly where they're going wrong is just making you look bad in the long run. If you came out with a better revised version of, say, the first three DoF chapters, or of whatever EN chapter you're referring to, people would take you more seriously than they're doing right now.

Actions speak louder than words.

I think Klok nailed it (it being the overall point this trends toward) - Being critical is one thing, but only speaking about the flaws in generalities rather than concrete, pointed examples is more often less than helpful, and it's hard to find a more concrete example than 'this map right here is what I consider good'.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Siuloir

[NobodiePichu]

I think the problem here is that over half of the hacking/game creating community here think when making a fire emblem hack, exactly in the words I just used. what i mean is that people think of the game there making as fire emblem first, a hack second and a game last, a bad thought process to use. the amount of content here would be a lot larger if people where just encouraged to experiment with what can be done story wise, game play wise, narrative wise and the such. that and people should try to think of it as a game first and then go through the steps when making a game (story boards, concepts and the such.) which has it's own set up that would help boost content.

EDIT: I personally wanna see fun game making and seeing what can be done in the scope of the concept. not making a close approximation of a fire emblem game and maybe adding some bells and whistles too.

Edited March 5, 2014 by ShinyPichu

[Brendor]

Eeeeeeeehhhhh. Not a big fan of FPSes.

Bioshock is the game that got me into the genre. You could try Fallout, it's a lot more ambiguous as you can change perspectives on a whim and have a myriad of weapon types as well as an actual world an adventure and a stat and skill system so it's an RPG at the same time. Just a thought, could be an interesting set out of your comfort zone.

[MarkyJoe1990]

I went and played the newest version of Raven's chapter. For some context, the only version of this chapter I knew was the one where you fight that bolting sage dude as the boss. I had a level design idea for that chapter that I wanted to put into play.

But this is completely different. Instead, you fight this assassin dude with Raven and try to survive with the other units. It took me off guard.

Firstly, I actually think this is the best chapter in the game, and without "But that's not saying much" attached to that sentence. It's difficult, but doable. It has an interesting idea (Raven fighting the assassin one on one) that bolsters the challenge instead of turning it into a chore, and it's clear the creator put a lot of thought into making it not easy to break. Also good positioning.

If I were to find any fault in it, it's that there are houses in it that you can visit for prizes, but since this hack has no long-term benefits due to it's structure, it's kinda pointless.

So yeah. Not remaking that one. The chapter that follows on the other hand... I might try that one, since so far, I find it very boring to play.

[NobodiePichu]

i found ravens part 2 interesting with the idea of friendlies helping you from some seize-able fort's, but the problem was that they didn't really change much, just die a lot.

[Parrhesia]

Siskel and Ebert didn't direct films. Did that make them unqualified to review them?

Their standards were achievable. Mark's don't seem to be - even his own attempts to reach them have largely failed catastrophically. 'A couple of bad-mediocre hacks,' as he himself puts it, and two he implies he considers inferior to Do5 (as he states, 'the best hack out there'.) Siskel and Ebert didn't make films, but they never claimed they could do better personally - Mark did claim that, and then couldn't do better, and when given a chance, a direct chance to 'improve' on a chapter anonymously, bottled out.

Now he's finally seemed to partially put his money where his mouth is, and I guess we'll see the results of it later. But you can't have it both ways here.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Parrhesia

[NobodiePichu]

Their standards were achievable. Mark's don't seem to be

i agree with the rest of that statement but I'm going to have to call BS on the marks don't seem to be. his standards are perfectly achievable, it's just people don't take the time to really try and make hacks following those principles they just try to make "as close to fire emblem game standard" games which result in bland design and uninteresting stories, because they will never be fire emblem games and they shouldn't try to be.

[MarkyJoe1990]

After yesterday's events, I decided to sit down and seriously think about what the hell I am doing, and I came to some conclusions.

EDIT: ... AND THEN I CHANGED MY MIND. After playing a bit of Dream of Five and Elibian Nights, I am fully reminded of why I dislike these hacks. They are a god damn chore to play. The pacing is abysmally bad. I've edited this post immensely to reflect this.

Their standards were achievable. Mark's don't seem to be - even his own attempts to reach them have largely failed catastrophically.

My standards are achievable. I suppose the reason people think otherwise is that I don't talk often enough about the things I do like. Not that any of them are FE hacks.

My favorite video game is Castlevania: Rondo of Blood and I think it is nearly flawless. I can't even think of anything off the top of my head that could count as a criticism of the game. It's just really damn good and I love it and aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh <3

'A couple of bad-mediocre hacks,' as he himself puts it, and two he implies he considers inferior to Do5 (as he states, 'the best hack out there'.)

The two good hacks I've made are too short/unfinished to really call them better than Do5. However, I'll gladly compare Chronicles of Lussaria's currently finished chapters side by side with Do5's.

Do5's first chapter purposely makes it's first map huge because it adds an extra bit of challenge to LTCers. But that means most average players are going to experience a couple of turns of nothing interesting going on. This is LTC favoritism at the expense of good pacing for most players. It's only a few turns, mind you, but it's completely unnecessary.

Comparatively speaking, Chronicles of Lussaria's prelude doesn't have this pacing flaw. The map size is much smaller, and you can even bait the boss out from his initial positioning. The boss has 7 move, and will move even if you aren't in his range given you trigger an area event that covers the bottom half of the map (I will be changing this so he only agros when you're in range, since even I think it's too generous). On top of that, it tosses a few bonus tasks your way: visit the two houses on the map, and beat the chapter in less than 4 turns. All of these things can be done and will keep you invested in the gameplay from beginning to end, and I think it's possible to even get a 3-turn clear with all bonus tasks cleared. For those who just want to play the chapter without obtaining the rewards recieved from completing bonus tasks; the boss will eventually start moving on his own if you dawdle for too long, and even then, it's a VERY short walk.

Do5's Chapter 1 is paced awfully. Aside from getting a unit that has awful hit rate (Amelia), I find it very difficult to break past the initial rush of enemies within a comfortable amount of time. I usually have to block the entrance and chip away at the enemies, which isn't very fun. After that, the rest of the chapter is just a trudge of bait 'n switch, shopping, visiting villages, and eventually killing the boss. There's not a lot to admire here. Also, in the version I played, an arbitrary ambush spawn occurs from the left of the map, and there's no real reason to suspect it, so you can file that under dickish game design 101.

CoL on the other hand... has a very dynamic chapter 1, and it's a million times better paced. Your team is cut down to 5 units, and the rest of your team reinforces over the next few turns from some of the buildings. One of the villages is in serious danger of being destroyed, and it has the first healer of the game. Chapter 1 also has a gimmick with your monk character. He's drunk, which lowers his skill and speed. You can either leave him drunk, which will net you a bonus task reward at the end of the chapter, or have him remove the status so he can fight better. Both him and your archer reinforce on turn 2 and are in a very bad spot. The other two ally reinforcements aren't in as much danger, but if you don't catch up to them, they will be targeted by the boss, who starts moving after a few turns. If I were to find fault in the chapter, it'd be that there is an exploit that nets a 2/3-turn win depending on whether your archer crits the boss or not. It needs fixing, or I at least need to program around it. Either way, the chapter is designed in such a way that you will constantly be doing stuff and progressing.

I can't really compare Do5's chapter 2 with CoL's interlude, but there's less to do in CoL's interlude, so point goes to Do5 for that one.

Siskel and Ebert didn't make films, but they never claimed they could do better personally - Mark did claim that, and then couldn't do better, and when given a chance, a direct chance to 'improve' on a chapter anonymously, bottled out.

Now he's finally seemed to partially put his money where his mouth is, and I guess we'll see the results of it later. But you can't have it both ways here.

Okay. When people accused me of saying I could do better, I didn't know if I actually said that or not, but ran with it because I figured asking if I did would make me look stupid. Still, that counts as me making the claim.

... Yes. I believe I can do better. I might even go and improve Raven's Tale Part 2 since it's awful to play. However, even if I don't, I don't think I care enough to prove myself by way of improving someone else's work, especially when I could just work on my own damn hack and prove it THAT way, which I am. Thinking about all this made me question why I even care about proving myself to you all anyway. To get the respect of the community? I barely know any of you. To gain influence so future hacks are better? Maybe I cared before, but I'm not sure I do anymore. I have the actual Fire Emblem games to play. Stuff that's made by actual professionals. Not to mention I could just make hacks myself, and shape them into something I enjoy. Much easier than hoping some random Joe pulls a miracle out of his rear and somehow makes a good hack.

I am very proud of my current hack, Fire Mumblem: Chronicles of Lussaria from a gameplay standpoint, and I think the first few chapters alone show that I am capable of making something that's much better paced and enjoyable than the current hacks out there. The humor needs some refinement, but I'll fix up those kinks as I go along.

Now... with all that said... if there is one thing I do agree with, it's that I'm not a very good critic. I pick out flaws, but I rarely give suggestions on how to improve them. I could also afford to be less harsh in general.

So lemme point out a few things. I can't force myself to enjoy Elibian Nights's gameplay, but I will say that if it just improved it's gameplay, I would like it. It has a lot of really interesting ideas that I think will be influential to newer hacks. Stuff like Merlinus's chapter really inspire new ideas, and even if Raven's Tale Part 2 isn't very fun to play in my opinion, I like the whole slave gimmick. There's a lot of other neat ideas the game has that I probably would not have thought of, and it follows the lore of FE7 pretty well. Good portraits, well written dialogue, and uh... well okay, some of the stories are terrible, but they're at least well presented.

To improve the gameplay, it needs to do the following:

1) Make the maps smaller, or pace the large maps better so they keep the player consistently interested throughout. Pacing is the main problem, but they also just feel really long-drawn out most of the time.

2) Make player phase more meaningful. Currently, the enemies are weak but numerous, and that generally means that getting a good unit with 1-2 is enough to wipe them out without much strategy (Read: Hector's Tale for the most part). If they were lowered in number, but had an upped skill stat to compensate, it would be more effective. The player would have to try to safely kill as many enemies as possible so that they face as few counter attacks and enemy phase facings as possible. This also makes archers more useful, by the way.

3) Because of how the hack is structured, there is no long-term consequences to plan for. This means that I have no reason to, say, open chests unless they give me stuff that contributes to playing efficiently, or lowers my turn count in the chapters they are available in. Most of the chests don't actually do that however. If the enemies were dangerous enough, and the map designs were made in such a way that whatever items these chests provide would be meaningful to the battles, I'd think twice about skipping them. For example, I remember there being legendary weapons in the chests of Eliwood's map, but I saw no reason to care that they were getting stolen because Harken and his brave sword were all I needed to wipe out enemies fast and furious. Currently, the achievement system is the only motivation to doing a lot of this busy work, but that assumes you care more about a superfluous 100% completion than actually having fun.

4) Fix the more minor problems that hinder enjoyment:

• Stop making everything a dang route mission. Use it when enemies won't dawdle around like morons waiting for me to approach and murder them. Eliwood's tale feels like it should be a boss kill mission.
• When I played Zealot's chapter, no one had a torch, and it's a fog of war route mission. That means I have to walk around the map searching for these stray enemies. I turned the game off once that happened. Thankfully, Arch updated the map so Zealot has a torch.
• I'd list more specifics, but I haven't played many of the new chapters, and I'm kind of sick of playing the damn game. I don't enjoy it with what it is right now.

Anyway, I think that's all I have to say. Edited March 6, 2014 by MarkyJoe1990

[MarkyJoe1990]

In other, less controversial news. New Decay of the Fangs, and this time, I'm in a much perkier mood!

http://youtu.be/EInVOl_tk2I

EDIT: Updated the link, but the video is still rendering at the time of this writing.

Edited March 7, 2014 by MarkyJoe1990

[Siuloir]

If you can't be bothered to care how the community feels, I don't understand why you bother interacting with it, or you bother reviewing hacks. You could just quietly sit and work on a project and not distract yourself by engaging with a community you principally interact with through snark and derision. I'm saying this without rancor - If you don't care about the community, you don't care about proving yourself, why not just go into a creative void and work? How much could you have gotten done in the time you invested in the above post?

While I do agree that the majority of Fire Emblem hacks suffer from large maps and pacing issues, I think your invective is a bit scathing and dismissive, and you continue to, whether by accident or design, paint yourself as being a cut above others investing in the same hobby you do (others whom you again, 'do not know' and do not care for, and whom you no longer have a desire to influence). At this point I really think your agenda might be better served by just divorcing yourself from the social side of things and working on a project, if that's what you enjoy. Howver, this contradicts with the fact that you have a Youtube channel and do LP Reviews - You clearly do want some form of attention given to the things you do.

I don't know what to tell you, to be frank. I guess you can continually direct effort toward defending yourself and deriding others, but all I know is that if it's your product and your process you care about, you should go embrace those and stop worrying about the community. You're wasting your time elsewise.

[MarkyJoe1990]

If you can't be bothered to care how the community feels, I don't understand why you bother interacting with it, or you bother reviewing hacks. You could just quietly sit and work on a project and not distract yourself by engaging with a community you principally interact with through snark and derision. I'm saying this without rancor - If you don't care about the community, you don't care about proving yourself, why not just go into a creative void and work? How much could you have gotten done in the time you invested in the above post?

While I do agree that the majority of Fire Emblem hacks suffer from large maps and pacing issues, I think your invective is a bit scathing and dismissive, and you continue to, whether by accident or design, paint yourself as being a cut above others investing in the same hobby you do (others whom you again, 'do not know' and do not care for, and whom you no longer have a desire to influence). At this point I really think your agenda might be better served by just divorcing yourself from the social side of things and working on a project, if that's what you enjoy. Howver, this contradicts with the fact that you have a Youtube channel and do LP Reviews - You clearly do want some form of attention given to the things you do.

I don't know what to tell you, to be frank. I guess you can continually direct effort toward defending yourself and deriding others, but all I know is that if it's your product and your process you care about, you should go embrace those and stop worrying about the community. You're wasting your time elsewise.

During these past few days of reflection, I asked myself similar questions. I don't even remember why/how I deluded myself into thinking I could do this reviewing stuff. I think it started with a comment I made on the original Fire Mumblem: Revised Edition thread back on Sanctuary of Strategy.

I think after I finish Decay of the Fangs, the only FE hack reviews I'll do from there are my older hacks. After that, I might do the actual Fire Emblem games, then find something else to do for my channel. I feel like only doing FE hack reviews has kind of reduced me to a one-trick pony anyway.

Edited March 7, 2014 by MarkyJoe1990

[Brendor]

Just lp fallout and stop pmsing all over everything

[Tryhard]

Just lp fallout and stop pmsing all over everything

If he doesn't know bioshock, what are the chances?

(my favourite video games are better than yours)