Holy Crap

[Doga]

I am currently dealing with the most difficult person of all time.

This is a man who believes that Shinon is the best unit in FE10, because apparently overkilling everything that moves with Deadeye constitutes greatness.

A man who boss abuses, and is willing to say that training Kurth is totally worth it.

I can overlook these, and I can tell he has probably not played HM (then again, neither have I, but hey), but this thread is about something else. I need a way to convince this man that Soren is Ashnard's son.

He claims to have beaten the game several times, and have unlocked every character and scene, so I asked him about what he thought about Soren's heritage.

From everything I've read in the years that have passed, I can tell it's true and canon. Hell, I even showed him the page here on Serenes about it. "No, no, this isn't right. It's a theory."

Then I showed him the actual scene on youtube. "It seems too ridiculous."

Although, he seemed to believe it more when I showed him the scene, he said it was merely due to a shit-ton of fan service that this was made canon, which made me think: "Was it?" Do you think that IS made a good choice, that was previously thought out, or simply added in something interesting at the last second? I haven't brushed up on Tellius lore in a long time, but I can say that personally, it was an interesting twist. Considering Pelleas wasn't Ashnard's true son, there had to be some child out there, somewhere. The fact that Soren was a branded is too obvious. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, and these types of conversations were much more fitting, say, 4 years ago, but for some reason, I cannot let this go.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Doga

[Othin]

A bullet to the brain will ensure he'll never again voice disagreement with what you say!

[Anouleth]

There are hints in FE9. Soren gets along very poorly with Nasir; when you encounter Kurthnaga, he hides. Clearly, they were trying to point towards a dragon heritage for him. Then again, none of that links him directly to Ashnard, just to Almedha, who might not even have been thought up when they made FE9.

[bottlegnomes]

What the fuck does it matter why they made it cannon? It's in a game made by IS so it's cannon. This is like someone saying Hector wasn't clean-shaven when he was young, and when shown a scene from FE7, saying IS made him so because people don't like beards. Tell him to write IS if he has issues with it and see how much they care.

Personally, there are some hints, but none that say "HEY! GUYS! Soren is Ashnards son." I feel like they planned it. Plus from what I remember, they had PoR and RD pretty much planned out from the get-go; they just didn't have enough time/resources to make them as one game. Tough I could be very wrong about this.

Also, what fan-service? I don't remember anyone even mentioning it. Now if he said that about BK=Zelg or Bertram=Renning (especially this one as he's playable), he'd have a better case, but still not much of one.

Edited January 10, 2013 by bottlegnomes

[Loki Laufeyson]

Seems to me this guy didnt unlock that scene. Granted its high likely that he didnt because the steps are wonky as fuck. But come on. Its not just a fan theory. Also, yeah the fan theory is kinda stretching it because i recall being on an FE forum quite a time before RD even came out. No one really speculated that Soren was Ashnard's kid. There was speculation of Soren's laguz traits and some people were like "dragon" because of the reasons below. But some also thought raven because of wind magic and the dark hair.

Theres also little hints buried everywhere. Like Anouleth said about Soren and Nasir butting heads, Soren for some unexplained reason, bolting when the dragons happen in PoR. If you look deep enough, you can see some striking similarities between Soren and Dheginsea of all people. Both rather be neutral. Both can be highly morally ambiguous. Both have similar features. The resemblance between Soren and Kurthnaga is also a bit in-your-face if you care to look. (i mean physically of course.) And then theres Almedha in RD. Its no coincidence they have the same eyes and a lot of the same insecurities. Soren's resemblance to Rajaion's official art is also present. Given that Soren is branded and we know of only one union between a dragon laguz and a beorc, its pretty safe to connect the dots. And then..theres the scene in the epilogue which seals the deal. What is there not to get?

Edited January 10, 2013 by Dunban

[Doga]

I personally have no issues with it being canon. I guess after all, there's no point in convincing this person if he refuses to believe it once given proof.

I replayed PoR recently, and when I got to the scene where the group encounters Dragons, I did pick up on Soren's behavior. It's really quite interesting going back to the previous game with the knowledge obtained in the sequel.

[Just call me AL]

Just asking out of curiosity. This guy wouldn't happen to frequent YouTube a lot, would he?

I mean, crud. It took me a long while to see that scene in FE10 that reveals Soren's Daeinese lineage. I didn't have any problems believing Soren was Ashnard's son beforehand.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Little Al

[Zkirsche]

But Shinon IS the best unit in Fe10. He can solo 4-E-2 with just a double bow and resolve/adept.

[Vicious Sal]

But Shinon IS the best unit in Fe10. He can solo 4-E-2 with just a double bow and resolve/adept.

But that's the easiest map to solo like ever! =p

[Silith]

Not if your name is Black Knight in chapter 1-9.

[Vicious Sal]

Not if your name is Black Knight in chapter 1-9.

I was actually being sarcastic. ;) Especially since 4-E-2 is impossible to solo entirely.

[Silith]

You could just walk up to the Burger King with a hammer and finish it on the first move.

[Vicious Sal]

You could just walk up to the Burger King with a hammer and finish it on the first move.

Only on EP though.

But that still leaves the southern half of the map. =/

In any case, the guys you are dealing with is a thickheaded twat and he needs to open his eyes, sounds like he probably won't however.

[Silith]

Wait am I missing something? Doesn't max str Ike 1RKO the Burger King with the hammer?

[aku chi]

The Black Knight starts on a Cover tile.

[Narga_Rocks]

The Black Knight starts on a Cover tile.

That's what Parity is for.

[Silith]

That's what Parity is for.

Thanks for saying that. I thought everyone was born with a brain but people make things harder then it's supposed to be.

[Paper Jam]

There do seem to be some people who don't like the idea that Soren is Ashnard's son. Maybe it's the fact that it would make Soren an accessory to his father's death... but that doesn't make him any worse than Jaina from World of Warcraft. It's not like Soren struck the killing blow. (He couldn't, even if you wanted him to.)

Actually, Jill is a better example.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Paper Jam

[Comet]

I personally have no issues with it being canon. I guess after all, there's no point in convincing this person if he refuses to believe it once given proof.

I replayed PoR recently, and when I got to the scene where the group encounters Dragons, I did pick up on Soren's behavior. It's really quite interesting going back to the previous game with the knowledge obtained in the sequel.

Yeah, I found a line of the BK's dialogue that hinted to the plan or conspiracy between him and Sephiran.

[Paper Jam]

Yeah, I found a line of the BK's dialogue that hinted to the plan or conspiracy between him and Sephiran.

At Port Toha, at the end of chapter 11? Yeah, I liked that too.

I remember when information about Radiant Dawn started coming out, and when I found out that the Black Knight had been working for Sephiran all along, I immediately remembered that scene.