So has anyone hacked this and/or Shadow Dragon...

[Kysafen]

So that the hit/critical rates/weapon triangle calculations are the same as in the GBA series? I'd actually like to have an incentive to have weapon triangle advantage and use myrmidons/swordmasters, call me crazy.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Kysafen

[dondon151]

but there already are strong incentives to have WTA and to use myrms/SMs.

[Junkhead]

What would those be, dondon?

[Kysafen]

What would those be, dondon?

Oh yeah, that one part in chapter 10x where Roro uses those hammers!

...for H1 and Normal.

[Xinnidy]

In higher difficulties WTA is quite valuable because it nullifies enemies' C-A weapon rank bonuses.

Swordmasters also have +10 innate avoid, 30 speed cap and high speed base, 8 move, and insta-C sword rank.

I don't get it. :?

[Jedi]

In FE12 Lunatic Swordmasters are among one of the only classes that doubles in the late game.

There are plenty of incentives also in FE11 the Wyrmslayer and their great speed.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Jedi Of Connacht

[Kysafen]

In higher difficulties WTA is quite valuable because it nullifies enemies' C-A weapon rank bonuses.

Swordmasters also have +10 innate avoid, 30 speed cap and high speed base, 8 move, and insta-C sword rank.

I don't get it. :?

Swordmasters had +15 Critical bonus in FE7/8, and +30 in FE6. And are you seriously suggesting that SD/SM's weapon rank bonuses outdo FE6-8's WTA, and that +10 avoid does jack fuck? For reals?

[Xinnidy]

Swordmasters had +15 Critical bonus in FE7/8, and +30 in FE6. And are you seriously suggesting that SD/SM's weapon rank bonuses outdo FE6-8's WTA, and that +10 avoid does jack fuck? For reals?

In higher difficulties heck yes.

A rank Axes give +15 hit, you nullify that, he loses 10 hit and you gain 10 hit if your weapon rank is C+, and he loses 1 atk while you get +1 atk if your weapon rank is A.

That is a 25 hit/1 damage disparity from weapon triangle alone.

Due to the nature of the hit rate RNG and Speed and Luck's weight on Avoid, dodging tends to be less reliable in DS FEs but it's not rendered null.

Swordmasters are also one of the few classes that don't get doubled in H3 lategame. In fact, they can even double with effectiveness weapons competently, that helps their niche a lot.

Edit: Grammar derp.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Roxie

[Jedi]

Swordmasters had +15 Critical bonus in FE7/8, and +30 in FE6. And are you seriously suggesting that SD/SM's weapon rank bonuses outdo FE6-8's WTA, and that +10 avoid does jack fuck? For reals?

I don't think that she was trying to imply against FE6 [which the huge crit rate is nice in], nor 7/8 even when that's for sure the avoid bonus is much better then their minor critical rate bonus in those 2 games.

In FE7/8 the Critical bonus is so minor compared to FE6 it may as well not even exist, anyone can get higher with a killing edge and supports backing them up, granted SM's will have a slight edge with the same stuff but hey others get close enough that I thought i'd mention it

In FE11/12 the avoid bonus is nice considering the very very VERY accurate weapons, and with the MU's support in FE12 or whomever else the SM in question gets supports from and you got yourself a very dodgy SM in a game where dodging is considerably harder to pull off.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Jedi Of Connacht

[Kysafen]

So I'm going to presume, "No, SM/SD has not been hacked so that myrmidons aren't fucked, fighters/warriors aren't broken, choosing your units based on class isn't banal since the only three stats that are actually worth a fuck are HP, Strength, and Speed, and you can actually make relying on unit dodging a real, feasible tactic throughout the entirety of the game."

Gotcha.

Also, hard modes based on broken enemy stats are fucking idiotic.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Kysafen

[Xinnidy]

I don't even know what you're trying to downtalk about.

FE11 has an "evil hack", made by blazer, I don't know about much else.

FE12's translation patch could be considered a hack depending on how you want to see it.

None of them have been hacked for WTA modifying as far as I know.

Swordmasters are good.

Warriors kinda suck in H2-H3.

Defense is about as important as HP. Ridiculously low skill and luck can make units bad.

Dodgetanking in GBA FEs can be ridiculously easy to pull off and I think FE12 (11 not as much) did it better. FE13 probably does it better than both.

Hard modes in FE12 are really creative as far as I know. The only thing I'm not very sharp about is ambush spawning.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Roxie

[PKL]

So I'm going to presume, "No, SM/SD has not been hacked so that myrmidons aren't fucked, fighters/warriors aren't broken, choosing your units based on class isn't banal since the only three stats that are actually worth a fuck are HP, Strength, and Speed, and you can actually make relying on unit dodging a real, feasible tactic throughout the entirety of the game."

Gotcha.

Also, hard modes based on broken enemy stats are fucking idiotic.

Fighters Warriors broken in DS games...hahahahahaha

hahahahahahah

hahhahaha

Sorry but WHAT? Also, while its true that dodging is tougher in DS games, its not hard to see hit below 60s at all even in H2. Plus, if u really want to dodge, swordmasters are THE way to achieve it. 30spd cap, 30 lck = 15 more avo + 10 natural avo and then supports add up to that too. Its not tough to get really low hits if you want them.

Also Strength Speed have always been the most relevant stats in FE. Not HP, you meant Defense, right?

Also, your last sentence confirms to me that you havent played the harder modes of FE12. Since they're much more than just raw stats. Lunatic for example, has a lot of difficulty that doesnt come JUST from the stats.

Last but not least, its hard to take you seriously with that attitude...

[riariadne]

implying HP matters more than defense

as a CLASS maybe GBA SMs are better in theory. But excluding Rutger, in implementation they are simply not very good at all. In FE11 and 12 there are times where switching over to SM for effective weaponry is valuable, whereas in GBA they have merely average offense and awful durability who can be replaced very easily.

There are basically no hacks that are of notable length for the DS FEs in the first place, but if you want to use your plebeian myrmidons you could just play FE7 with like Guy

[Kysafen]

Fighters Warriors broken in DS games...hahahahahaha

hahahahahahah

hahhahaha

Sorry but WHAT?

Also, while its true that dodging is tougher in DS games, its not hard to see hit below 60s at all even in H2. Plus, if u really want to dodge, swordmasters are THE way to achieve it. 30spd cap, 30 lck = 15 more avo + 10 natural avo and then supports add up to that too. Its not tough to get really low hits if you want them.

Except in most other games you could have everyone else dodge. And I'm fully aware of Swordmaster dodge rates. Still doesn't keep them safe from being hit by devil weapons/magic, and everyone else H2 and up.

Well, since there are no such romhacks that would make Shadow Dragon/Shin Monshou a legitimately enjoyable game to play, I guess I'm done with this thread.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Kysafen

[PKL]

Except in most other games you could have everyone else dodge. And I'm fully aware of Swordmaster dodge rates. Still doesn't keep them safe from being hit by devil weapons/magic, and everyone else H2 and up.

Well, since there are no such romhacks that would make Shadow Dragon/Shin Monshou a legitimately enjoyable game to play, I guess I'm done with this thread.

My Unit is broken period. Doesnt mean Fighter is a good class overall.

And I dont understand your logic here. How does not being able to dodge consistently = not enjoyable game? Would you rather play FE8/FE7, where you can be literally invincible?

Edited January 11, 2013 by BASEDRyan

[Xinnidy]

Because MU isn't broken as any other class.

And berserker/hero totally don't trivialize Warrior.

Barst is only curbstomping normal mode and maybe H1. Even then he's not the best unit in the game.

Except in most other games you could have everyone else dodge.

Explain how is that a good thing for Swordmasters when everybody can do it and take more hits to boot.

And I'm fully aware of Swordmaster dodge rates. Still doesn't keep them safe from being hit by devil weapons/magic, and everyone else H2 and up.

Then why did you ditch it when I pointed it out.

And why would a luck-based thing be reliable to begin with.

And why do you claim that dodge is useless in H2 and against magic. Rather, have you even played H2 for longer than the earlygame and used supports effectively?

Well, since there are no such romhacks that would make Shadow Dragon/Shin Monshou a legitimately enjoyable game to play, I guess I'm done with this thread.

It's still enjoyable to me so *shrug*

Edited January 11, 2013 by Roxie

[PKL]

What was that about hitrates?

I can't

hear you

too busy dying of laughter

EDIT:

This is like, as accurate as enemies get in H2

Even against a Thoron sage, you could potentially dodge with supports and swordmaster class.

A 69, while unreliable, is still a chance to miss.

Against Hardin himself with WTD. You can still get some nasty good hitrates vs him. Didnt have Lightsphere because Im just warping ppl around testing hitrates in H2 Bow Run lol. And again, I dont see how dodging has to be reliable. Its a random thing that you could get every once in a while. If anything, the flawed games here are the GBA ones for having way too shitty hitrates.

Edited January 11, 2013 by BASEDRyan

[Espinosa]

And again, I dont see how dodging has to be reliable. Its a random thing that you could get every once in a while. If anything, the flawed games here are the GBA ones for having way too shitty hitrates.

It's true that on easier difficulties SMs' avo makes them nearly impossible to die when facing axe users with supports in range. But when hit rates go from, like, 90 to 50, then it's not something to rely on still, even though when you know being hit won't kill you, avoiding an attack makes you save a Physic use or whatever. Could be a good or bad thing depending on whether you're really keen on getting your healers up in levels for promotion and stats that enable them to enter combat at some point and whatnot.

FE6 is the sole offender when it comes to hit rates in the GBA games IMO. The reason why enemies fail to hit you in the other games is mostly because their bases are not strong enough, even on hardest difficulties (hence the FE7/8 prepromotes dodging pretty reliably). FE6 really did make reliability a problem with the weapons' hit (and to a much lesser extent the introduction of s rank and tactician bonuses).

[shadykid]

So, someone's mad they can't run through the game on higher difficulties on autopilot?

great

and for how "amazing" GBA swordmasters supposedly are, they're all mediocre except for Rutger

[Neuts]

I like the modifications to dodge and hit rates; hit rates are usually high enough that you have to assume everything will land. This makes the game less diceroll-happy and, on higher difficulties at least, forces you to learn how the AI works (even though it's dumb as shit).

and for how "amazing" GBA swordmasters supposedly are, they're all mediocre except for Rutger

Yeah, I've never been fond of units who'll only gain strength and defense if you have the favor of the great RNG gods.

[shadykid]

Speaking of lolAI in this game, one time there were four units who could've 2HKOed MU's remaining HP at solid hit rates

So logically, one attacks Merric, another attacks Rody, a 3rd attacks Catria, and the last one attacks....idk, Palla? (doesn't really matter)

[PKL]

The AI was intentional. Enemies target lower def mostly. It goes like, if that hit alone can kill = priority, if not, attack lowest def. There are exceptions to this in some maps/enemies though.

Edited January 14, 2013 by BASEDRyan

[Neuts]

It just doesn't think past single actions; enemies will prioritize hitting a more fragile unit that their friends can't reach over teaming up to take down a slightly more sturdy unit.

It's definitely intentional. An AI that actually thinks (and sends its entire force at you in an organized, smart formation) would make for a pretty hard game, though it would be a lot of fun for Casual mode.

[bottlegnomes]

Fighters Warriors broken in DS games...hahahahahaha

hahahahahahah

hahhahaha

This.

Also, FE12 SMs > SMs in any game but maybe 5 and 6 (literally solely because of Rutgar), and FE12 WTE > WTE in any other game. Not sure about 13 because I haven't played it, so I don't include it in here.

SMs in 12 are actually useful because they're one of the few classes that can dodge reliably, and with javelins and hand axes taking a big nerf and magic swords actually being fairly good, they have decent 1-2 range combat. It's still not great, but that just helps to make bow users and magic users more useful for 2 range.

Overall, FE12 is probably the best balanced FE I've played, at least from a class standpoint; characters can be absolute shit on higher difficulties from my understanding, but that's more because the higher difficulties are pretty, well, hard. In H1, most of the characters are decently balanced.

[shadykid]

I know its intentional that the AI prioritizes damage above all else, but its still hilarious (especially considering earlier games' AI didn't do this)