The Lunatic Club

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

...wut? The first 5 chapters you can't grind, by that point I would imagine you'd have an army to hold their own. I've only managed with a def+ and a mag+ avatar.

Well, that is pretty much the thing. By the time Donnel arrives, he's way behind everyone the player would have chosen to use at that point. So it's pretty much beat chapter 4, then hit the DLC to train him up, because attempting to bring him to chapter 4 would likely end in his innards splattered all over the walls. For this reason, I gave him a shot during my grind run and left him behind during my no grind.

The early chapters of a no grind require more resets because the army isn't quite going yet. Crit-gibbing and 2 range are the big early game ways to safely weaken or take out Counter enemies, so if a high volume of enemies spawn with Counter, it's a map reset. Later on Rescue Staves are buyable, plus stuff like Galeforce, Sol, and Nostanking (if so inclined) become available to help make things significantly less luck based.

[Khainiwest]

That's correct. I have nothing to say to DLC grinders, who live in a different world as far as I am concerned.

To clarify, are you trying to talk down to me in an elitist tone, or do you only come across that way?

Well, that is pretty much the thing. By the time Donnel arrives, he's way behind everyone the player would have chosen to use at that point. So it's pretty much beat chapter 4, then hit the DLC to train him up, because attempting to bring him to chapter 4 would likely end in his innards splattered all over the walls. For this reason, I gave him a shot during my grind run and left him behind during my no grind.

The early chapters of a no grind require more resets because the army isn't quite going yet. Crit-gibbing and 2 range are the big early game ways to safely weaken or take out Counter enemies, so if a high volume of enemies spawn with Counter, it's a map reset. Later on Rescue Staves are buyable, plus stuff like Galeforce, Sol, and Nostanking (if so inclined) become available to help make things significantly less luck based.

You hit fast enemies hard enough for donnel to finish them, the best cannidates are thieves/archers. Aptitude quickly pushes him to usable means, maybe I was just lucky with my run.

[Interceptor]

To clarify, are you trying to talk down to me in an elitist tone, or do you only come across that way?

I have no idea what the concept of "elitist" even means to you, so you'll have to come to your own conclusions. I would have just ignored you if I knew that your definition of "story gameplay" included DLC grinding.

[Khainiwest]

I have no idea what the concept of "elitist" even means to you, so you'll have to come to your own conclusions. I would have just ignored you if I knew that your definition of "story gameplay" included DLC grinding.

This isn't a question of "type" of gameplays. You're playing through the story, whether you DLC grind or not, you have to defeat the chapters, that is the objective. So your opinion is not a definition, while mine, kind of is.

I apologize that I went into a thread called "lunatic/Lunatic+" where the only requirement of discussion is, well playing the difficulty. While you limit yourself based on the fact you either can't, A) afford it, or B) have a fallacious sense of pride, I can enjoy both worlds, with different goals.

Though you never actually presented a retaliation to, well a logical assessement beyond is con's, which in this case does not outweight his pro's, considering his armsthrift will be even more necessary with a limited budget. Just dismissed a clearly legitimate point based on..LB/+2 which is irrelevant to my original point. (As majority of characters would carry limit breaker, thus his stat cap would still be in the same rut).

Edited April 29, 2013 by Khainiwest

[Interceptor]

This isn't a question of "type" of gameplays. You're playing through the story, whether you DLC grind or not, you have to defeat the chapters, that is the objective. So your opinion is not a definition, while mine, kind of is.

That's fine; you can have any asinine definition that you like; I work with meanings, not labels. I was only pointing out that if I had known beforehand, I wouldn't have even bothered.

I apologize [...]

It's no problem, don't worry about it.

While you limit yourself based on the fact you either can't, A) afford it, or B) have a fallacious sense of pride, I can enjoy both worlds, with different goals.

I know that you couldn't help but make a clumsy, hamfisted implication here; but for the record, I own all of the DLC, I just don't play them (only picked up the DLC to support FE). I have no idea what a "fallacious sense of pride" is. That phrase sounds like something put together by someone who thought that "fallacious" was a cool word, but didn't bother to see what it meant.

Though you never actually presented a retaliation to, well a logical assessement beyond is con's, which in this case does not outweight his pro's, considering his armsthrift will be even more necessary with a limited budget. Just dismissed a clearly legitimate point based on..LB/+2 which is irrelevant to my original point. (As majority of characters would carry limit breaker, thus his stat cap would still be in the same rut).

Armsthrift is handy, but not exactly necessary. I mean, in my case, Gregor is popping out Bullions all over the place with Despoil, nobody uses anything higher than Iron unless it's a special occasion (like Longbow... figure I might as well), and I'm sitting on 35k that I don't know what to do with.

Donnel is just a class set and stat caps to you. That's fine, but it's very bland, so don't expect me to care enough to argue about a unit under such boring criteria.

[Ice Sage]

So I finished Lunatic + classic today.

Early game gave me lots of trouble, but it got easier after that.

counter is so annoying >_>

[shadykid]

It would. Pretty much have to break out the DLC for him.

There are a lot of early resets in a no grind Lunatic+. The farther the player gets, though, the (hopefully) better the army can cope with Counter spam, so the threshold for needing to reset gets a bit higher. At least for me, I was resetting a couple dozen times per map in the early game. By the end, it was maybe 2-3 times.

that was the point, it's almost impossible to do a no-grind, no-reset run (heck, even with grinding you might be forced to reset once)

[Othin]

There's nothing to discuss if you're freely grinding. Go ahead and do grind if you want, but jumping into discussions about a clearly different playstyle and insisting that everyone rate characters based on your playstyle is asinine.

This thread isn't specifically about non-grinding runs, but the conversations in which Donnel was called terrible obviously were.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Othin

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

that was the point, it's almost impossible to do a no-grind, no-reset run (heck, even with grinding you might be forced to reset once)

Barring insane luck, yeah, it's pretty much impossible. When I did my run that allowed grinding (mind a minimal amount, so I wasn't fielding a team full of super pairs), I tried to play out almost any given randomization first before resetting. The majority of the failed attempts ended in me being able to kill the Counter enemies fast enough, despite having a team full of capable pairs. Someone would always get cornered by a small horde of Counter enemies and that would be the end of that. It helped me refine my tactics, but when I decided to do my no grind run, I decided I was sick of those scenarios, so I started resetting until the enemy setup was something I was at least somewhat confident I could take down without relying too much on luck.

[Anouleth]

This isn't a question of "type" of gameplays. You're playing through the story, whether you DLC grind or not, you have to defeat the chapters, that is the objective. So your opinion is not a definition, while mine, kind of is.

I apologize that I went into a thread called "lunatic/Lunatic+" where the only requirement of discussion is, well playing the difficulty. While you limit yourself based on the fact you either can't, A) afford it, or B) have a fallacious sense of pride, I can enjoy both worlds, with different goals.

Though you never actually presented a retaliation to, well a logical assessement beyond is con's, which in this case does not outweight his pro's, considering his armsthrift will be even more necessary with a limited budget. Just dismissed a clearly legitimate point based on..LB/+2 which is irrelevant to my original point. (As majority of characters would carry limit breaker, thus his stat cap would still be in the same rut).

I don't get how armsthrift is even more necessary with a limited budget. Armsthrift only directly affects gold you spend on purchasing and forging weapons... if you have a limited budget, you will likely still be spending money on Tonics, Seals, healing staves, and certain stat boosters (Energy Drops being far more efficient than forging additional mt on weapons), but you'll be spending a smaller portion of income, or perhaps even none at all on weapons and forges (dropped weapons being plentiful).

Indeed, the marginal impact of armsthrift doesn't seem particularly high unless you use it on rare weapons or reach very high levels of luck... consider that a unit with 25 luck is only getting double the number of uses out of a forged weapon. So essentially, if you were to give this hypothetical unit a +4 Steel Axe costing 5880, it would be like he had two such axes. Or you could just give a unit with the +2 strength skill, which isn't hard to acquire, two +2 Steel Axes, costing 4900, and get the same results. And since Gregor, Cordelia, and Robin don't have particularly good luck anyway, it's unlikely you'll see them go significantly above that 50% activation rate, and for the vast majority of the game they will be in that region or below. The only exception is Donnel who has ridonkulous luck and can easily reach 80-90% Armsthrift activation, but I wouldn't really say that's worth his abysmal earlygame and consuming your first second seal.

[darkkfan]

I tried to play out almost any given randomization first before resetting. The majority of the failed attempts ended in me being able to kill the Counter enemies fast enough, despite having a team full of capable pairs. Someone would always get cornered by a small horde of Counter enemies and that would be the end of that. It helped me refine my tactics, but when I decided to do my no grind run, I decided I was sick of those scenarios, so I started resetting until the enemy setup was something I was at least somewhat confident I could take down without relying too much on luck.

I try to play out the scenarios too on my no grind-run. Usually when I reset right away it is either because there is a combo somewhere that gives me almost 100% of dying (I'll probably still play it out just in case) or because like 90% of the map spawned with counter. Of course, if I had to keep resetting dozens of times and I kept getting RNG screwed (like chapter 6 for me), then I'll probably throw this all out the window.

You just need to make it through Ch2, basically. Everything else pales in comparison, so you should direct all of your effort/planning towards overcoming that particular challenge.

Yeah, so far I've found this to be true. I mean, I'd say Ch.5 is by far the worse but it is the same idea and I suppose that if I used Avatar as much as I should have this wouldn't be the case.

You just need to make it through Ch2, basically. Everything else pales in comparison, so you should direct all of your effort/planning towards overcoming that particular challenge.

Yeah, so far I've found this to be true. I mean, I'd say Ch.5 is by far the worse but it is the same idea and I suppose that if I used Avatar as much as I should have this wouldn't be the case.

BTW I didn't read the whole argument but Interceptor was right, Donny is practically (perhaps even completely) unusable in an early-game (before you can spam rallies) no-grind luna+ setting.

[Zer0]

Hey guys! I'm new here, but I may be a part of the lunatic club. I beat it on casual, though. I like Softresetting level ups for good stats.

[1% critted]

In my experience, Donnel in vanilla Lunatic is actually a good unit if you know put enough effort into him, even in a no DLC run. If you trap the archers in paralogue 1 with 3 units, Donnel can gain a lot of EXP from them. You can get him to level 5 in that chapter just with that method.

I forged him a bronze lance after the chapter, and fed him every kill that I could. I had him at level 10 in chapter 6 and reclassed him using an anna second seal. After that he was unstoppable.

But in a resources/exp distribution way, Donnel is worthless and other exp can go to better units.

I've finished Lunatic classic 5 times now and Luna+ twice. But I always use a party of 6 early game units (3 couples) if I use Female avatar, and 8 early game units if male avatar, and then use add their children to the party. My first two runs I tried training a lot of characters but it was a no-no near chapter 20 because Chrom was way underleveled. So I've never finished it using only early game units and training them in the main game but hey, at least I had a full endgame party.

[Missile]

Anyone get a strategy for chapter 19 but with 2 turns or more ? It's seems really impossible :/

[Galenforcer]

Chapter 12 looks pretty impossible. What should I do?

[Othin]

Anyone get a strategy for chapter 19 but with 2 turns or more ? It's seems really impossible :/

It depends. What exactly is your goal that requires taking two or more turns? Just getting some extra Exp? I guess you could hide your weak guys with Pair Up, then have your other guys in range of just 1-2 enemies on the enemy phase so they'll survive, then just go for the usual 1-turn strategy on Turn 2?

[Interceptor]

Chapter 12 looks pretty impossible. What should I do?

Make use of the chokepoints, take care of the Beastkillers. Don't be afraid to use Cherche if you need to. What are your assets?

[Galenforcer]

+ Speed/ - Defense.

A lot of horsemen rush on the first turn and none of my team except Frederick can take more than two or three hits.

[Missile]

It depends. What exactly is your goal that requires taking two or more turns? Just getting some extra Exp? I guess you could hide your weak guys with Pair Up, then have your other guys in range of just 1-2 enemies on the enemy phase so they'll survive, then just go for the usual 1-turn strategy on Turn 2?

The main problem is the two dark knights and the three paladins too close, they can kill the staffbots easily...

(actually I want morgan to get some level up since he was to busy to spam Rainbow cry in chapter 18)

[Othin]

The main problem is the two dark knights and the three paladins too close, they can kill the staffbots easily...

(actually I want morgan to get some level up since he was to busy to spam Rainbow cry in chapter 18)

Do you have enough able fighters to hide the staffbots on for that turn?

Also, what class is Morgan in your game? He might be able to get levels in Ch20, especially if he still has access to magic. Although spamming Rally Spectrum will be valuable there, and the rest of the game... If he's your primary Rally Spectrum user, getting him levels will require the high cost of not using the skill in exchange for the small reward of having him fare better in battles he'll probably be too busy spamming Rally to take part in directly anyway. So if it's a lot of trouble, you may not need to bother.

[Interceptor]

+ Speed/ - Defense.

A lot of horsemen rush on the first turn and none of my team except Frederick can take more than two or three hits.

You are very seriously under-trained if you don't have anyone who can take some real damage. Is it possible for you to block the two-wide spot right above where you start, and send a small force to deal with the mounts to the left? You should at least have a Beastkiller that you can use. Once you stop the horsemen, you can hold out in the center for as long as it takes (heal by using a staff and then using Olivia to back the healer out). Just deal with any leaks to the left or right as they come.

[1% critted]

Also remember that (I may be wrong about this), promoted classes have a lower priority in attack turn under unpromoted ones, unless there is already a planned 2 hit KO from two units. If you position someone with high defense, that can't kill the cavs with the paladin, or with enough defense unequipped, you can stop them from being overwhelmed. After that is a matter of sending everyone else to the left, since the rightmost knights won't get to where you are two quickly.

The left most group with the bow knights move at turn 3, and the right most bow knight will move at turn 5. I'm not sure at which turn the enemies at the ship move since I always aggro them, but you can aggro only one side ( like the paladin and 3 cavs in the left bridge) without aggroing the boss. The first turns are the hardest, after that it's all about proper position and that starting chokepoint, abuse the hell out of it.

Hope this helps.

[Galenforcer]

After enough 1st turn resets, finally managed to conquer Chapter 12. It's pretty easy after getting a good 1st turn.

Chapter 13 here I come...

[Missile]

Do you have enough able fighters to hide the staffbots on for that turn?

Also, what class is Morgan in your game? He might be able to get levels in Ch20, especially if he still has access to magic. Although spamming Rally Spectrum will be valuable there, and the rest of the game... If he's your primary Rally Spectrum user, getting him levels will require the high cost of not using the skill in exchange for the small reward of having him fare better in battles he'll probably be too busy spamming Rally to take part in directly anyway. So if it's a lot of trouble, you may not need to bother.

Well only five actually (with pair up) and only Chrom, MU and Lucina (and maybe Lon'qu) can really survive this huge wave of ennemies.

Morgan is a tactician (his father is Chrom, so excellents bases... for his level). But you're probably right, He will be too busy to spam Rally Spectrum, maybe i can get him some level up (one kill, one level up) on chapter 20 but after that :/

[Elieson]

I had 6 competent units. What I did was rush everyone to the left corner and formed a right angle triangle with a rally user (in my case, Avatar) in the exact corner of the map. For me, Lissa turned out solid as a rock, and with a Kellam pairUp, I had her stand adjacent to him (well, she shifted between above adjacent and right adjacent, for Mend purposes), while a unit 2 squares from Avatar just held their position. They were all Tonic'd, and each held Concoctions just in case. Also Sol because Sol.

(For reference, it was Cordelia, Nowi and Donny each with a defensive pairUp, avatar, Lissa, Kellam, Fred and someone else I don't remember who, probably Gregor).