The Lunatic Club

[Lu Bu]

I finished Hard/Classic last week, just got to Chapter 4 in Lunatic/classic game now. Think it should be smooth sailing from here?

Edited April 14, 2014 by Lu Bu

[LordFrigid]

I really need a bit of help on Paralogue 16. The thing is, everything goes fine and dandy until I cross the first door and the first set of walls crumble. Having 17 promoted enemies with forged Silver Weapons and level 4 Tomes piling on me after I spend 40 minutes maneuvering and making those Mire Sorcerers spend all their ammo against my team is getting really, really old, and got me in a very bad mood.

I don't have any Sorcerers nor Snipers, so I can't really hit the guys on the bottom room before its walls crumble. I also don't want to solo Avatar that if it's possible, since she is already pretty strong by herself thanks to a couple of Risen Skirmishes I was able to clear until they became too strong (gotta love those General and Great Knight Risen, they're so easy to kill if you're a Tactician, Dark Flyer or Dark Knight).

Admittedly I haven't played Paralogue 16 in a while. How overleveled is your Avatar? You don't have to throw her in the middle if you don't want to, sticking her on the edges of the enemy ranges (might take a few moments to count the squares) and having her pick off a few people, then taking down the rest on your next turn should be manageable if she can take the hits. Or if you have the capability to kill 17 enemies in one turn, you could send her in and unequip her.

I finished Hard/Classic last week, just got to Chapter 4 in Lunatic/classic game now. Think it should be smooth sailing from here?

Ch 5 is sort of a pain, but otherwise it's not too bad. If you're knowledgeable about things like reinforcements and enemy movement patterns (i.e. do they sit around until you're in their range, do they start moving on a certain turn, etc.) that's a plus, but not strictly necessary.

Edit - Welcome to Lunatic Mode, btw!

Edited April 14, 2014 by LordFrigid

[Lunatic Shade]

Admittedly I haven't played Paralogue 16 in a while. How overleveled is your Avatar? You don't have to throw her in the middle if you don't want to, sticking her on the edges of the enemy ranges (might take a few moments to count the squares) and having her pick off a few people, then taking down the rest on your next turn should be manageable if she can take the hits. Or if you have the capability to kill 17 enemies in one turn, you could send her in and unequip her.

Ch 5 is sort of a pain, but otherwise it's not too bad. If you're knowledgeable about things like reinforcements and enemy movement patterns (i.e. do they sit around until you're in their range, do they start moving on a certain turn, etc.) that's a plus, but not strictly necessary.

She's a Tactician 20/Grandmaster 15/Dark Flyer 15/Great Knight 10/ Dark Knight 5 (Veteran, Galeforce, Ignis, Luna, and Rally Spectrum, although I swapped Luna for Rally Movement for now) - maxed out Str and Def. Since she got there after Chapter 13, I figured I would use the Paralogues to train the children I plan to use - Kjelle (she's already a Knight 10/Mercenary 10/Pegasus Knight 1), Nah (the next one I need to recruit to open up the Second Seal shop, or so I was told), Morgan, Cynthia, and Severa. The other kids will be recruited but not trained, and I'll abuse their Paralogues to get more levels. Avatar is basically doing Rallybot duties while the rest of the shmucks try to catch up - they'll never will of course, but my Shepherds are a Communits group and they share their EXP equally, and by that I mean the nomenklatura characters get all EXP while the proletariat gets nothing (and in true Bolshevik fashion, the weak nobility got the shaft - so screw you Virion, Maribelle, and Cherche; you are going to be the glorious Chromian Revolution's cykas). Did I mention my game got influenced by the Ukranian crisis halfway through?

I suppose I can fall back to tanking everybody with Avatar, if my next infallible plan doesn't work out - Lucina tanking everybody on a pillar with some Rally Spectrum hot action. She'll still have to dodge or Aether-counter two or three attacks from the 8 guys on the bottom room, or I'll be resetting for the fourth time after a 40-minute marathon of Wait > Dance > Heal > End > Wait > Dance > Heal > End fun. But the odds are on my favor, I guess - 5 * 15% = 75%, so statistically Aether should activate at least once before it's too late.

[LordFrigid]

That's actually 1-(.85^5) ~ 55.6% I think; .85 being the chance to NOT Aether on any of the five hits, subtracted from one to get the chance of proccing an Aether in there somewhere.

Nice choices on the child units, btw. I've ended up running Morgan/Cynthia/Severa/Lucina for my last few runs...though trying to orchestrate all the Galeforce passdowns (rushing Sumia to 15 DF within 10 Chapters, particularly) was.......interesting.

Do you have Physic access yet? If you want, you can drop Avatar in the middle of everything, unequipped, (seems like you have enough Def to take a load of hits), against a wall if having 1-2 less enemies able to hit you helps, and on your turn 1) Physic her as necessary and 2) Send a weaker unit to the very edge of the enemy range. That should pull off enemies in small, manageable groups. You could also just send them in kamikaze style but Rescue them out after they've netted themselves a kill.

[Lunatic Shade]

Oh my, you're right on the % thing - why the hell did I summed it straight? I'm aware that PERCENTS! DON'T! WORK! THAT! WAY! I do believe you Anglo-Saxon people call it a "brain fart", or "J'ai un blanc" if you're from that ice desert on the Northern part of the continent, I believe they call it Winterfell or Angmar or something.

I'll dust up a Wind tome and try to have Avatar tank the initial barrage - since Lucina has Galeforce, she can go on snipping the scraps, and if I manage to make a Dark Knight get on Kjelle's reach, the better, since she can wield 1RKO them with a Beast Killer.

Yeah, the Galeforce passdowns are the worst thing on a non-DLC grind run - I got both Avatar and Sumia to get it, but Cordelia didn't make it yet (she's halfway there, though). I even had a feverish dream that I could pass Galeforce to Inigo, Owain and Brady, and when I finally wake up I had already spent a Second Seal on Lissa and Maribelle (Lissa I managed to "salvage" promoting her to Falcon Knight and acting as a secondary staff user to Anna, but I don't know what to do with poor Maribelle).

Is there any Paralogue worse than Nah's? I mean, except for Severa's, because I'm pretty sure an escorting mission on Lunatic Mode will be as fun as getting cancer. On both testicles. When you're a woman. Yay.

[Lu Bu]

It may not have been Lunatic Mode, but during Severa's Paralogue I just kind of use rescue and pull her back to my starting location, which causes her to take the central route with the rest of the team instead. Probably will work the same way in Lunatic and make things much easier.

If she still somehow gets ahead just pull her right back, all is well!

[XeKr]

I finished Hard/Classic last week, just got to Chapter 4 in Lunatic/classic game now. Think it should be smooth sailing from here?

Just don’t overuse Frederick too much and you should be fine. The hardest part is over (though beware Chapter 5, as mentioned).

Also re: your post in the other topic which is relevant here...

And then I went to Lunatic and now I am not so sure. I haven't read any guides or anything mind you, to not spoil myself, but it seems like Lunatic is a sporting event where Fredrick and Avatar (mostly Fredrick) kills/tank everything while the rest of the team take turns playing with their balls...kinda kills the whole team building atmosphere to me. Does this change for the better later? I don't want to have to grind too much.

It’s up to you. You can have a small team (or even just Avatar) beat everything (Frederick will fall off hard), or you can use a larger team. You might need to spend some time babying other units (feeding them kills, etc) to get them to fight competently, but they’re fine once over that hump. It can be rewarding to see your weaklings eventually fighting very well after trained up (especially no-grinding runs).

If you like larger teams, I recommend getting Rally Spectrum so your Avatar can support everyone.

[Lu Bu]

Will a large group really work without a DLC? I mean I can see solo or small group working easily yah, but I am having a tough time babying people (Right now everyone is practically Donnel to me)

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Without grinding, I'd say the limit for a "large" group is 5 combat pairs (4 on Lunatic+; I've tried on several occasions to do 5, but the 5th always ends up experience starved and then cut). The rest can be filled with staff users, Olivia, ralliers, or classes that can pair to said staff users for +Mov or +Mag.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Yo. Just a post to inform this thread that i will (finally) begin a Lunatic run very soon. But im a wimp and will be doing Lunatic/Casual. Deal with it.

Grinding will be involved cuz this is me feeling around about how this mode really works.

[XeKr]

Will a large group really work without a DLC? I mean I can see solo or small group working easily yah, but I am having a tough time babying people (Right now everyone is practically Donnel to me)

The Donnel comparison has been made before, but like Donnel, they're usable with some investment.

Anyway, it typically depends on the growth potential of units you choose and your ability at efficient exp allocation and reclassing.

In general, a larger team probably means several children, maybe a few with Veteran/Aptitude, and perhaps Manaketes who can all be effective with less levels or have otherwise accelerated leveling. Panne is also a character with 2nd gen-like growth potential, during the main game.

If it’s your first Lunatic run or so, or using more of the 1st gen, you should consider using a smaller, more consolidated team with more filler utility units (Libra, Anna, Olivia, etc). Perhaps Chrom+Avatar, their children, then another family or 2 (or something like Tiki/Say’ri).

Another thing to keep in mind is the usage of uneven combat pairs, where one does most of the fighting and the other is mostly for Pair Up bonuses. A bit weaker bonuses and Dual Strikes, but more combat units overall and you can distribute exp accordingly. Avatar with pocket Chrom and Nowi with pocket Gregor are the commonly cited examples, though I’m partial to Wyvern!Panne with pocket Assassin!Lon’qu too (or Wyvern!Lon’qu with Taguel!Panne). And if you do use children, the parents are often good Pair Up bots for them.

Without grinding, I'd say the limit for a "large" group is 5 combat pairs (4 on Lunatic+; I've tried on several occasions to do 5, but the 5th always ends up experience starved and then cut). The rest can be filled with staff users, Olivia, ralliers, or classes that can pair to said staff users for +Mov or +Mag.

For the most part that’s good advice, though I’ll note I trained at least 5 usable lategame units by Chapter 21 or so (all children near 20/20 in a No Second Seal challenge) and none had Veteran. In a more typical run, I probably could have added another child (and had some Veteran/Aptitude children), maybe Tiki/Say’ri, then Flavia/Basilio later and continued training Avatar (if he could reclass) for more units. At some point you’re running out of slots, due to how Pair Up works and because it’s very nice to have some Rescue Staves, Rally users (especially Spectrum and Speed), and Olivia.

It does depend a bit on however much Paralogue exp you manage as well. More children is more chapters is more exp.

Edited April 15, 2014 by XeKr

[Czar_Yoshi]

I even had a feverish dream that I could pass Galeforce to Inigo, Owain and Brady, and when I finally wake up I had already spent a Second Seal on Lissa and Maribelle (Lissa I managed to "salvage" promoting her to Falcon Knight and acting as a secondary staff user to Anna, but I don't know what to do with poor Maribelle).

Oh, it's very possible if you're stubborn and use your resources right. And get a little lucky with Anna/can streetpass yourself.

Basically, before Par.1 sell the Supreme Emblem (or something else really valuable) and buy a huge amount of Heal staves, along with a Master Seal from Anna, have your Avatar as overleveled as possible (with plenty of Spd/Lck and at least a B with Chrom, preferably A).

In Par.1, use Avatar x Chrom to distract as many enemies as you can (unequipped, you don't want them to die), kill the ones who won't cooperate with Fred, Miriel, Sumia, anyone, and have Donnel x Lon'qu (with Spd boosters if needbe) tank a ton of hits to give Lissa staff exp. Keep breaking weapons until she reaches 10 or 15 Sage, I usually go for 15. There should be enough weapons, if there aren't don't sweat it. Grab the treasure, feed the enemies to whoever wants them, and exit.

Do the same thing for Maribelle, Lissa can reclass to DF immediately after rescuing her. Maribelle should go Valkyrie -> DF. There's a nice little island on Par.2 you can use to stay safe and tank Archers, this paralogue requires more patience than the last one.

Once both of them are Dark Fliers, they're probably strong enough to take a couple of squads of Risen for exp, and even if not there's still plenty of chapters for them to train in. The reason I chose to use the Paralogues for exp farming is that you don't get rushed at the start of Par.1 and Par.2 has a very good turtling spot. You can use Marth's Falchion in Cht.4 for infinite damage to heal, but it's a lot trickier to set up.

Olivia is a lot harder if you want to get Inigo early (and pass Lucina Galeforce, which I usually do). She goes to Lv.30 with dances in Cht.11, ideally you should have a tanky Sorc with Mire on hand to kill the thief and then distract the enemies. Olivia is a good candidate for the Naga's Tear and Dracoshield if you still have them. For Cht.12, forge her a Beastkiller with +5 mt (use an Arms Scroll if you need it), and have her clear out the bottom LHS pocket with Chrom before retreating. Have Avatar and another tanky unit hold the choke immediately above where you start off, don't be afraid to break weapons and if you have any Rescue to spare you can let Olivia Rescuebomb the ranged units behind the choke, particularly the Bow Knights. If you're careful, Olivia can get all the kills on this map. For Cht.13, others will need to help due to the amount of Bows, but Olivia should be almost Lv.15 and you have at least two Galeforce units to kill the Warriors/Snipers with.

All this works on Lunatic+ as well, but Cht.12 gets pretty hairy.

[Jac]

So im new to these forums and i've beaten Lunatic CAS 3 times and I convinced myself that I was finally ready for Luna+

I wasnt ready. For anything.

All i can say is that i love/hate it a lot and i normally get stuck on chapter 2 and i've restarted a few times completely so that fred/chrom get level ups. I am prolly not doing this right but i would like a bit of assistance for chapters 2/3 since they are hell. I think im okay with dual shield units and luna/vantage anything this early on. But Hawkeye/Luna is easily the worst. Also Counter Archers are hell.

Im very sure i have a long way to go. But it's my first run so i expect that much.

If it matters, my avi is +skl - hp because im weird and i know hp maxes at 80 still but i dont want any of my other stats to drop.

Also i am a dlc hussy and love grinding so after i beat the hard stuff i think i'll be good to go? hopefully?

[Lunatic Shade]

Oh, it's very possible if you're stubborn and use your resources right. And get a little lucky with Anna/can streetpass yourself.

Basically, before Par.1 sell the Supreme Emblem (or something else really valuable) and buy a huge amount of Heal staves, along with a Master Seal from Anna, have your Avatar as overleveled as possible (with plenty of Spd/Lck and at least a B with Chrom, preferably A).

In Par.1, use Avatar x Chrom to distract as many enemies as you can (unequipped, you don't want them to die), kill the ones who won't cooperate with Fred, Miriel, Sumia, anyone, and have Donnel x Lon'qu (with Spd boosters if needbe) tank a ton of hits to give Lissa staff exp. Keep breaking weapons until she reaches 10 or 15 Sage, I usually go for 15. There should be enough weapons, if there aren't don't sweat it. Grab the treasure, feed the enemies to whoever wants them, and exit.

Do the same thing for Maribelle, Lissa can reclass to DF immediately after rescuing her. Maribelle should go Valkyrie -> DF. There's a nice little island on Par.2 you can use to stay safe and tank Archers, this paralogue requires more patience than the last one.

Once both of them are Dark Fliers, they're probably strong enough to take a couple of squads of Risen for exp, and even if not there's still plenty of chapters for them to train in. The reason I chose to use the Paralogues for exp farming is that you don't get rushed at the start of Par.1 and Par.2 has a very good turtling spot. You can use Marth's Falchion in Cht.4 for infinite damage to heal, but it's a lot trickier to set up.

Olivia is a lot harder if you want to get Inigo early (and pass Lucina Galeforce, which I usually do). She goes to Lv.30 with dances in Cht.11, ideally you should have a tanky Sorc with Mire on hand to kill the thief and then distract the enemies. Olivia is a good candidate for the Naga's Tear and Dracoshield if you still have them. For Cht.12, forge her a Beastkiller with +5 mt (use an Arms Scroll if you need it), and have her clear out the bottom LHS pocket with Chrom before retreating. Have Avatar and another tanky unit hold the choke immediately above where you start off, don't be afraid to break weapons and if you have any Rescue to spare you can let Olivia Rescuebomb the ranged units behind the choke, particularly the Bow Knights. If you're careful, Olivia can get all the kills on this map. For Cht.13, others will need to help due to the amount of Bows, but Olivia should be almost Lv.15 and you have at least two Galeforce units to kill the Warriors/Snipers with.

All this works on Lunatic+ as well, but Cht.12 gets pretty hairy.

Hm, I may try this on my next run after I finish my current one - I'll do a Male Avatar run for variety.

Off-topic, but I really grew to hate the random level up bonuses and random skills activation. That's kinda stupid on a strategy game, if your strategy has to account for random chance (usually it goes on the form of "I'll soften this guy up with this strong unit first and GOD DAMN IT STOP CRITING IT YOU DOLT!").

I wish the stats were point-bought with different costs depending on each character's stat weight, and skills would be activated on command by expending MP or something.

Edit: I forgot to mention, I didn't even think of farming Staff EXP for Lissa or Maribelle because I never played it on Normal or Hard - I jumped straight to Lunatic, because you either do things Demosthenes way, or you're not trying hard enough.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Lunatic Shade

[Interceptor]

All i can say is that i love/hate it a lot and i normally get stuck on chapter 2 and i've restarted a few times completely so that fred/chrom get level ups. I am prolly not doing this right but i would like a bit of assistance for chapters 2/3 since they are hell. I think im okay with dual shield units and luna/vantage anything this early on. But Hawkeye/Luna is easily the worst. Also Counter Archers are hell.

I'd suggest looking at the link in my sig, and also checking out SoC's video guide for getting past the initial chapters.

The most reset-heavy RNG-prone challenge is Ch. 2, so generally you want to spend the first couple of maps prepping for it.

If it matters, my avi is +skl - hp because im weird and i know hp maxes at 80 still but i dont want any of my other stats to drop.

It does matter; that's a really hard stat combo to make work. And just FYI, all of the stat flaws reduce your max stats. HP flaw takes 1 away from all of STR/MAG/LCK/DEF/RES, in addition to the lower base. +DEF/-SKL and +DEF/-LCK are the easiest ones to make work for Lunatic+.

Also i am a dlc hussy and love grinding so after i beat the hard stuff i think i'll be good to go? hopefully?

Once you can grind, you're all clear for Lunatic+. It's very easy to make a team that can deal with Counter etc. once you have unlimited access to weaponry and level-ups. So if you are going to grind, I'd suggest making a plan that will get you there.

Off-topic, but I really grew to hate the random level up bonuses and random skills activation. That's kinda stupid on a strategy game, if your strategy has to account for random chance (usually it goes on the form of "I'll soften this guy up with this strong unit first and GOD DAMN IT STOP CRITING IT YOU DOLT!").

Part of the strategy in Fire Emblem comes when you have to think on your feet and make adjustments based on random events that happen. This is one of the things that makes Lunatic+ such a cool challenge.

I wish the stats were point-bought with different costs depending on each character's stat weight, and skills would be activated on command by expending MP or something.

Well, there's always fixed Mode in FE9, I guess.

[Seevea]

Im doing a run of Lunatic atm. Just beat Ch3. Do I get a cookie?

Just did the same thing. You don't need a cookie, you need an aspirin =[

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Edit: I forgot to mention, I didn't even think of farming Staff EXP for Lissa or Maribelle because I never played it on Normal or Hard - I jumped straight to Lunatic, because you either do things Demosthenes way, or you're not trying hard enough.

It's still possible to staff farm them up, though not in such an extreme manner if full Renown isn't available. In that case, going for Dark Flier with them is probably only really practical if using DLC. Still, even a 20/1 Sage/Valk can completely devastate much of the early-mid story mode.

I jumped straight to Lunatic too (with a no grind, no Nos caveat and very limited spoiler knowledge on the game) and I have mixed feelings about that playthrough, mostly because my unfamiliarity with the game and just rolling with whatever seemed easiest resulted in the game evolving into an Avatar/Chrom duo run by chapter 19.

On the other hand, having Chrom propose to my Avatar based on something like 9 support points and no support ranks was a pretty hilarious moment.

[Jac]

I'd suggest looking at the link in my sig, and also checking out SoC's video guide for getting past the initial chapters.

The most reset-heavy RNG-prone challenge is Ch. 2, so generally you want to spend the first couple of maps prepping for it.

It does matter; that's a really hard stat combo to make work. And just FYI, all of the stat flaws reduce your max stats. HP flaw takes 1 away from all of STR/MAG/LCK/DEF/RES, in addition to the lower base. +DEF/-SKL and +DEF/-LCK are the easiest ones to make work for Lunatic+.

Once you can grind, you're all clear for Lunatic+. It's very easy to make a team that can deal with Counter etc. once you have unlimited access to weaponry and level-ups. So if you are going to grind, I'd suggest making a plan that will get you there.

I do love SoC's vids on lunatic + and thanks to him i got thru prologue/ch 1.

I DIDNT KNOW THAT

I'll go ahead and change that. But my god i use armstrift so much. would the -lkc affect me that much?

[Interceptor]

I'll go ahead and change that. But my god i use armstrift so much. would the -lkc affect me that much?

It will hurt, which is why I'd suggest +DEF/-SKL instead. That's what I used in my playlog. It does hurt your accuracy early, but you can power through that with WTA and Pair-Ups.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Note that it also works the other way around too. If you pick a main stat, there's a few related stats that will take a more minor boost to their caps. See http://serenesforest.net/fe13/char_max.html for the exact figures.

Note that even a -Luck Avatar will still be able to reach 44, which is an 88% activation of Armsthrift. A Luck Tonic (a dirt cheap consumable) can bump that to 46 Luck for 92% activation. A pretty good rate if I do say so. If you're really worried about a particularly rare weapon or expensive forge, though, there are easy ways to bring that up to 100%. These include Limit Breaker, Rally Luck/Spectrum, or pairing up with a Great Lord, Swordmaster, War Monk/Cleric, Dancer, Lodestar or Bride (some support levels may be required).

[Interceptor]

Another issue with -LCK flaw on Fem-vatar is that it also cascades down to the second and third-best units in the game: Morgan and Lucina. You hurt caps, bases passed down, and growths. Each of those things is small individually, but it does add up.

Fortunately, Chrom is one of your best answers to crappy LCK, since he's an absurdly convenient Pair-up partner for his family when it comes to that stat.

[Jac]

I'll suffer with for now :(

I'll just fix it on the next couple of runs i'll do.

Thanks!

[Loki Laufeyson]

lol

Lunatic.

lol

Dis mode...

Most of you who know me and my play habits with FE know that i do not usually do really tough difficulties. This game offers us nancies some relief which is nice and with this relief, it becomes extremely fun! Like, me grinding like a three hundred year old rusty cog pays off in fun and hilarious ways. WATCH THE STAHL SWORD THINGS IN THE FACE WITH 2 HP AND VANTAGE! AAAA

Those first four chapters were murder. Frederick Emblem in full force with Avatar hitching a ride. There were resets there too cuz Fred hates mages lots.

Im up to chapter 14 now. Getting Morgan was...interesting. Especially cuz i married Lissa this run and Morgs is left as a cleric. I got my Loki Avatar to help with the sticky spots and hes a great utility unit right now cuz Trickster class. Well well...that reclass back in that file ended up being a good decision after all.

So...Just what do i need to expect out of the children's paralogues?

[xcel]

So...Just what do i need to expect out of the children's paralogues?

In my current L+, I got Brady, Cynthia, Kjelle, Inigo, Laurent, Owain and Severa (and I did most of their paralogues for the first time).

Since you're on Lunatic and grinding, all of the children's paralogues should be pretty easy. Those on the Ylisse side of the map have more base class enemies while those on the Valm side have more promoted units.

Some notes from my experience:

• For Brady's paralogue, if you want to keep all villagers alive, having multiple Galeforce units helped in clearing out the initial flock of enemies around the starting area.
• For Inigo's paralogue, if you want Inigo to get 5 kills, having Inigo with max stats, All +2, and Galeforce (and some lucky crits and Dual Strike) helped.

Edited April 15, 2014 by xcel

[Loki Laufeyson]

Poor Inigo...

I heard his paralogue is BALLS in Lunatic even with a decent team. Oh well. Ill manage. Probably with a roflstomping Gerome. (this Gerome is going to be barking mad powerful. Im planning it out~~)

Owain's should be easy enough for me cuz hes Avatar's kid this time around. And Galeforce! :v