The Lunatic Club

[Ownagepuffs]

Been bugging me for a while, who would you guys say is the better mother for Lucina and a better wife for Chrom in Lunatic/L+ mode between Sully and Sumia?

[General Banzai]

Been bugging me for a while, who would you guys say is the better mother for Lucina and a better wife for Chrom in Lunatic/L+ mode between Sully and Sumia?

Sully

Sumia is awful and Chrom doesn't need the stats she gives

[Czar_Yoshi]

2-4 are perfect for boosting your actual units that will be seeing most ingame use anyway also why would you not get Anna asap

Actual units? As in the children? Because I tend to bench most of my non-Chrom/Avatar and their spouses team around Cht.15.

I don't get Anna asap because I'll only be missing her for about 4 chapters, for all of which I'll have Libra. On the other hand, I get to put her Paralogue's exp somewhere where it counts: on units who still have ~10 chapters left instead of those who've gotten as strong as they're going to get and only need to be present for 5 more (fairly easy) chapters.

Sully

Sumia is awful and Chrom doesn't need the stats she gives

Yes he does. Sumia with a Chrom support can double the Archers in Cht.3 at base, which is incredibly useful. Sumia's not tanking anything in Lunatic+ no matter who her support is.

In terms of Lucina, Sumia passes an easy GF to Lucina and has a second daughter in a more useful starting class. Sully can't say either of those and is honestly a fairly weak choice in Lunatic+.

Post# 3000. Whomp whomp.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Vanilluxe]

Edited July 15, 2015 by Vanilluxe

[Ownagepuffs]

Now if the listed growths here are correct,there is a 10% difference in strength growth between Sully and Sumia. Sully!Lucina also has 1% higher Strength growth than Sumia!Lucina.

A lot of early chapters also value flight, which gives Sumia a better chance of leveling up. There's also a quicker support, which means higher chances of dual strikes. Also Cynthia > Kjelle.

I'm pretty convinced that it is Sumia > Sully. But I'd like to hear an argument for Sully.

[General Banzai]

Actual units? As in the children? Because I tend to bench most of my non-Chrom/Avatar and their spouses team around Cht.15.

I don't get Anna asap because I'll only be missing her for about 4 chapters, for all of which I'll have Libra. On the other hand, I get to put her Paralogue's exp somewhere where it counts: on units who still have ~10 chapters left instead of those who've gotten as strong as they're going to get and only need to be present for 5 more (fairly easy) chapters.

Yes he does. Sumia with a Chrom support can double the Archers in Cht.3 at base, which is incredibly useful. Sumia's not tanking anything in Lunatic+ no matter who her support is.

In terms of Lucina, Sumia passes an easy GF to Lucina and has a second daughter in a more useful starting class. Sully can't say either of those and is honestly a fairly weak choice in Lunatic+.

Post# 3000. Whomp whomp.

The only children who are really viable for no-grind are Lucina, Kjelle, Laurent and Morgan, purely by virtue of when you can get them. Anyone else joins too late to build up support bonuses + reliable pair-up attacker partners, which are the real keys to Luna+.

Earlygame chapters like Chapter 3 are best done with dynamic switching of pairup partners to deliver tailored bonuses toward different enemies, everyone's getting a piece of the pie at that point. Outside of earlygame Chrom's defensive capabilities are too inherently trash to make him a viable combat unit without a defense-oriented pair-up partner. In fact I'd say he's better as the pair-up partner himself, delivering high bonuses, elevated pair-up attack percentages, and with inherently strong MT making his pair-up attacks not totally worthless.

Gale Force is the single most overrated thing in this game

Also, Cynthia's starting class is probably one of the most worthless classes in the game by the time you get her. At least Kjelle can be someone's armor + steroids.

Sully is the best Aegis+ attacker you'll get for most of the game all things considered.

[Czar_Yoshi]

But Pegasus Knight is a bad starting class for children. If the kid already has Galeforce, they're going to reclass into another first tier class before they promote. Since Pegasus doesn't give any good skills, it's a waste of 10 levels. If they don't have Galeforce, they have to reclass from Pegasus to Pegasus, so they'll miss out on skilla other first tier classes have to offer.

Peg gives the only tier 1 healing skill in the game. It's awesome.

The only children who are really viable for no-grind are Lucina, Kjelle, Laurent and Morgan, purely by virtue of when you can get them. Anyone else joins too late to build up support bonuses + reliable pair-up attacker partners, which are the real keys to Luna+.

Nah?

Earlygame chapters like Chapter 3 are best done with dynamic switching of pairup partners to deliver tailored bonuses toward different enemies, everyone's getting a piece of the pie at that point. Outside of earlygame Chrom's defensive capabilities are too inherently trash to make him a viable combat unit without a defense-oriented pair-up partner. In fact I'd say he's better as the pair-up partner himself, delivering high bonuses, elevated pair-up attack percentages, and with inherently strong MT making his pair-up attacks not totally worthless.

Good thing Sumia's well suited to being a lead.

Gale Force is the single most overrated thing in this game

Saying stuff is overrated is overrated.

Also, Cynthia's starting class is probably one of the most worthless classes in the game by the time you get her. At least Kjelle can be someone's armor + steroids.

Sully is the best Aegis+ attacker you'll get for most of the game all things considered.

What makes her so much better than everyone else?

[Irysa]

Perhaps not on Luna+, but on regular Luna, Cynthia and Severa's paralogues are definitely not that hard to do in nogrind immediately after they show up, which was at the same time Morgan's appeared, right after Lucina joined. I'm doing them in my run right now. Severa's also allows you to reach Cynthia so...

Also, Chrom + Sumia is totally viable to tank nearly all of Chapter 5 on the fort, and also tanks Chapter 7 easily. Those two chapters alone will rocket Chrom forward in levels, and then Chapter 8 Sumia lead is awesome since the speed pairup Chrom's giving her lets her double all the Myrmidons and Dark Mages very reliably with a Javelin, and Chrom's uber high DS chance converts that into an ORKO reliably. Plus flying.

[Knusperkeks]

Not sure if it's easily doable without using drugs from the shop, but my ~160 stats Dark Knight MU could handle about 7 of the enemies before he got killed, just for reference.

Nowi could handle 9 enemies, but if you position her as a vanguard in the forest tile, she will get focused by 4 archers and is likely going to die. ~110 stats without dragonstone at the time, I gave her +4 speed/+5 hp permanently from permanent stat boosters.

She did have a ~170 stats Donnel as a pair-up with Eirika's though, so most enemies died after 1 attack and two dual strikes, she was able to double about half the enemies. Rally Spectrum trivialized most of the fights.

After the chapter they had the following stats:

GreatL lv 6 Chrom(20 Lord into GL) 113 total stats.

GreatK lv 4 Sumia (PK11->DF15->GK) 174 total stats.

Donnel Hero 6 (Villager15->Merc10->Hero) 180 total stats.

27 Nowi 121 total stats. w/o dragonstone 156 with.

MU lv 3(18 Tac->15 GM->DarkK.) 168 total stats.

Cordelia lv 7 (PK11->DF) 110 total stats.

Sully lv 3 Paladin (Cav17->Paladin) 109 total stats

Vaike lv 6 Hero (Fight16->Hero) 118 total stats.

That was the basic setup.

Question about Donnel!Nah:

There is nothing Nowi could pass on so I'm thinking of pushing her through some advanced class upon reaching her 30th level, but I'm not certain which one would be the best, thinking of Wyvern Lord for Swordbreaker to get Swordbreaker+Sol/Axebreaker Nah.

TL;DR: Getting Cynthia right after her chapter is unlocked is definitely doable on regular lunatic without any dlc.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Knusperkeks

[Czar_Yoshi]

Perhaps not on Luna+, but on regular Luna, Cynthia and Severa's paralogues are definitely not that hard to do in nogrind immediately after they show up, which was at the same time Morgan's appeared, right after Lucina joined. I'm doing them in my run right now. Severa's also allows you to reach Cynthia so...

You also don't have to clear Severa's paralogue before accessing Cynthia's, just unlock it. And Cordelia is useable right off the bat in Lunatic, making this not too big of a problem.

Question about Donnel!Nah:

There is nothing Nowi could pass on so I'm thinking of pushing her through some advanced class upon reaching her 30th level, but I'm not certain which one would be the best, thinking of Wyvern Lord for Swordbreaker to get Swordbreaker+Sol/Axebreaker Nah.

Ingame, just keep reclassing back to Manakete for extra stats. They'll help more than any skill you could pick up and it's a big hassle building weapon ranks on Nowi anyway (especially as she's just lost a ton of durability from the class change).

[isetrh]

After making some changes to what my final team will be, the children who stick out as usable in-game are Sumia!Lucina, Chrom!Cynthia, and Virion!Severa. It seems somewhat unreasonable to try to train Sumia, Cordelia, and Virion all to 20/15 to pass on good skills, while also training my Avatar, so I'm not sure how to allocate exp.

One idea I'm playing around with is to promote Virion early and then use him as a hard support for Cordelia, not worrying about trqining him any further. Another is having my Avatar go through Tactician->Grandmaster for Rally Spectrum since her asset/flaw are crappy (+Skill -Def for postgame) and Morgan won't be appearing (lol at marrying his dad Yarne in-game, or even recruiting him since I want him to inherit Swordbreaker).

Honestly though I have no idea what I should do. plzhelp

[General Banzai]

I beat Lunatic+ for the first time

Classic, no grind, no galeforks

My team:

Sorcerer!FemMU x Chrom

Sully x Frederick

Nowi x Gregor

Henry x Cordelia

Bow Knight!Lucina x Kjelle

Tiki x Anna

Valkyrie!Lissa x Libra

Unless otherwise mentioned, classes were default

I feel like I can really be part of the club now, yay

[isetrh]

I was thinking of using Cordelia as a Falcon Knight Staffbot. Being able to Staff-grind would help her get hitched to Virion in spite of not giving Support bonuses he particularly wants without spreading exp too thin by making her another lead unit. Even if she isn't passing Galeforce to Severa, passing Lancefaire would help Severa to get Galeforce herself. Plus I have a Falcon Knight in the meantime.

I'm worried about her low Magic though. She can have any Spirit Dusts I get if they'll help, but that can only do so much. Has anyone here used Cordelia as a Staffbot? If so, was her Magic a problem?

Edited December 19, 2014 by isetrh

[Chloe Neo]

Playing on lunatic +:

I grinded my characters soly on DLC maps

Was completed on newcomer/casual mode

FemAvatar was paired with chrom and everyone else was random

Got 15 gameovers in one chapter

Enjoyed every second of it apart from chapter 21 that wrecked me.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I was thinking of using Cordelia as a Falcon Knight Staffbot. Being able to Staff-grind would help her get hitched to Virion in spite of not giving Support bonuses he particularly wants without spreading exp too thin by making her another lead unit. Even if she isn't passing Galeforce to Severa, passing Lancefaire would help Severa to get Galeforce herself. Plus I have a Falcon Knight in the meantime.

I'm worried about her low Magic though. She can have any Spirit Dusts I get if they'll help, but that can only do so much. Has anyone here used Cordelia as a Staffbot? If so, was her Magic a problem?

She won't pick up support points as a staffbot unless she's doing the staff action directly to Virion. I've used Cordelia as a staffbot simply because I've had multiple runs where I tried using her as a lead unit and even with Vaike as a support, her damage output is pretty poor when she joins and eventually becomes irrelevant. Her low Mag is indeed an issue and as a staffbot, she's barely good for much more than patching someone up for a dozen or two HP until she can use Recover (she can Rescue too, I guess, but the range will be pretty pathetic). Come to think of it, I think I actually leaned way more on her Rally Speed than anything she did with a staff.

[isetrh]

She won't pick up support points as a staffbot unless she's doing the staff action directly to Virion. I've used Cordelia as a staffbot simply because I've had multiple runs where I tried using her as a lead unit and even with Vaike as a support, her damage output is pretty poor when she joins and eventually becomes irrelevant. Her low Mag is indeed an issue and as a staffbot, she's barely good for much more than patching someone up for a dozen or two HP until she can use Recover (she can Rescue too, I guess, but the range will be pretty pathetic). Come to think of it, I think I actually leaned way more on her Rally Speed than anything she did with a staff.

I see. Well, Rally Speed is cool. Thanks!

[Czar_Yoshi]

Cordelia will be able to start Rescue chains, but can't make cross-map Rescues and can't heal for very much HP. While she does have utility as a Staffbot (in addition to several others, don't try making her your main healer), you'll have to keep in mind that her abilities are less impressive than everyone else's.

Basically, she can be used as a Staffbot as long as you keep in mind that she'll be less powerful than the others.

[Gradivus.]

Finally finished Lunatic.

Earlygame was ok-ish (aside from C2 which is annoying) as I didn't do much for good TCs and rather pushed many kills into my +speed avatar. C11-17 were smashed hard by him, 18 is hard as fuck if you go the slow way, 19 and 20 are difficult because of those additional Generals and Dark Knights. Rescue chain 1-turning saves the day though. I had to get creative with those chains as I had no Galeforce, and ended up needing spotpass!percival to defeat 20, whose group was soloed by MU + staffbots (no comment about my exp distribution). C21 would have been insane if it wasn't for MU, actually I had planned to get Gregor to Axebreaker, but it didn't work out, so MU became a Sorc and spammed Nosferatu tomes for this and 3 further chapters. C25 ate a rescue chain and Grima goes sucking from 44 Skl Vengeance + Waste hitforge from MUxAversa. Is C26 on loony actually realistically possible without Galeforce (nosferatank alone doesn't help against grima)? since most strats apparently rely on killing a Berserker, weakening grima, rescuing the unit and then killing grima and the initial enemy spam hyperonslaught is hardly survivable from EP2 on.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Gradivus.

[Ownagepuffs]

Hey guys.

You wanna hear about good design choices?

How about deciding it would be okay to spawn risen that are 3strong5me on like every fucking shop after clearing chapter 4?

Lunatic discourages grinding, but it shouldn't discourage fucking shopping.

So like it's been a long time since I've played Lunatic and last time I did minor grinding this time I'm going for a clean no grind. I'm a lot better at Fire Emblem since then so I decided to play it fair with Awakening. Because I'm not yolo-dashing to the outrealm gate, I have to play efficiently. I'm noticing how clever the enemy placements are in the early game. It's enough to violently molest you if you fuck up your positioning but not enough to overwhelm you to the point of it being impossible. I'm at chapter 5, but I'm gonna wait for these damn risen to get off the tonic shops. I've allowed spot pass shops and all the bonus shit to make life easier since it allows for cool shit like Gae Bolg Frederick which is hilariously awesome and Sumia can use Finn's lance at base.

/end diary

Oh yeah, right. The questions.

I've been wondering who to pair Cordy with because Cordy flies and flying rocks. I'm thinking either Vaike, Lon'qu, or Frederick. But Frederick x Cordy is a cringe worthy support so I'd rather avoid it. Lon'qu just seems like superfluous speed between the two of them and Vaike is kinda blah but I've also always wanted to try out Vaike x Cordelia.

I'm also trying to decide upon male Robin's wife. Sumia x Chrom is like my favorite couple ever so that's staying. Sully looks to be the obvious choice because availability and Morgan will start as a Cav but Kjelle doesn't seem too impressive. There's Nowi and Cordy but I'm wondering if they'll be able to S rank early enough to make Morgan worth it.

[Vanilluxe]

-

Edited July 15, 2015 by Vanilluxe

[Czar_Yoshi]

Technically, those skirmishes encourage shopping once you know about them in advance... You can stock up ahead of time, or run the risk of making do without... And more often than not you'll have a surplus for endgame. Especially if you get burned early on and blow all your cash the moment you can.

Cordelia x Vaike is just a few Str short (made up for through a small combination of tonics, forges, a level up and/or an upgrade from Javelins -> Short Spears) of being able to ORKO the DMs in Cht.8 without DSes, which does wonders for getting her started. He's one of her stronger options on Lunatic, and she's by far the best reason to keep him around after ~Cht.6.

If you get the Seed of Trust from Renown, give Avatar and his future wife all the event tiles for the next two chapters after recruiting her, and get at least one support boost + use the seed on the chapter where you don't get the boost, the two will get C and B immediately (so Avatar could be at B with Cordelia after Cht.8 and B with Nowi after Cht.9). From there, S is pretty quick, especially if you save Par.2/3 for more support. So yes, they're both very feasible and strong options.

[Ownagepuffs]

Cool, I'll try out Vaike then. Thanks for the advice.

Now that leaves Avatar's wife. Any particular reason to not tie the knot with Sully? Or is Nowi just a bazillion times better.

And another question. If Morgan starts at a base class with 2 weapon types (I.e. Cavalier) does s/he start with C weapon rank in both weapons? That'd be pretty convenient.

[Roivann]

And another question. If Morgan starts at a base class with 2 weapon types (I.e. Cavalier) does s/he start with C weapon rank in both weapons? That'd be pretty convenient.

Yes, she does. Edited December 29, 2014 by Rovan

[Ownagepuffs]

Chrom just died to 31% Displayed and C support w/ Sumia + being adjacent to C support Fred in P-1 and I don't know what is life anymore. But hey at least is isn't as bad as the 4% crit game over I got in C1. Man this run has been super unlucky and my Avatar is Spd screwed despite having Spd as an asset. All of my anger.

A part of me wants to recruit Donnel because I want his momma to be proud of him but then is realize how fucked up the map is for him lol. They really went out of their way to make them all Axe users.

Regardless, w/o Yolo outrealm grinding I'm starting to see the nuances of Lunatic mode and I think it is a damn fine difficulty and I'm starting to get the feeling that the gameplay was designed around this mode.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Cool, I'll try out Vaike then. Thanks for the advice.

Now that leaves Avatar's wife. Any particular reason to not tie the knot with Sully? Or is Nowi just a bazillion times better.

And another question. If Morgan starts at a base class with 2 weapon types (I.e. Cavalier) does s/he start with C weapon rank in both weapons? That'd be pretty convenient.

Nowi has the closest thing in the game bar Veteran to immunity to Lunatic's high IL cap. Combine that with Veteran on their children and she really is that good. It's less of a reason not to pair with Sully and more of a reason to go with Nowi- honestly the biggest thing I can hold against Sully is that she comes at a time when you don't have the flexibility to be making a big team.

A part of me wants to recruit Donnel because I want his momma to be proud of him but then is realize how fucked up the map is for him lol. They really went out of their way to make them all Axe users.

A few high exp Thieves and several Archers standing in very narrow corridors where they're easy to trap, as well. And no zerg rushing AI either. Par.1 is entirely dependent on how patient you are- if you want to blaze through it, you can but will miss Donnel. If you don't mind spending upwards of 200 turns stalling and breaking weapons, it's the most lucrative training map in Lunatic(+) relative to its position in the story.

You don't have to spend that long to get a lot out of it, though. I'd advise sending your best tank on a rampage (as unequipped as possible) to stop the Killer Lance Thief (sure, you can buy more, but it's really nice for Cord), and having some squishies stand outside b the wall of the boss room. There are two Archers in there, and you can lure them, break their bows and get a ton of Staff exp and two easy kills for Donnel (should get him his level if he gets to whack them first) while your more competent trainees (this is a good place to level Chrom, Sumia and an other pre-Cht.3 recruits you plan on keeping) unravel Avatar's mess.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi