darkkfan Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 So I'm on my second playthrough and the part where lucina is fighting for basilio as khan. Having beat the game before, I don't really recall any explanation for why Lucina would be doing this. Does it have something to do with Basilio's death? Maybe there was an explanation and I just missed it, but this game seems to leave a lot of loose ends like that (I guess time travel will do that to a game) although some of the time travel stuff is explained really well, other parts they just kind of glossed over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 It's difficult to say without knowing what was supposed to happen. From the look of things, Lon'qu would've been Basilio's champion had Marth not shown up. But Marth can beat Lon'qu, and Chrom can beat Marth... so how would this have changed the outcome of the events? Furthermore, why would Flavia losing be beneficial to Marth? I can't see any reason. And Chrom losing wouldn't benefit Marth at all, because then Flavia and Basilio probably wouldn't be as impressed with Chrom and wouldn't have offered him soldiers. Which, regardless of who actually became Khan, would mean Plegia would easily steamroll Ylisse. Again, did this happen in Marth's timeline or not? If it didn't, what was the point of doing it? I suppose the only other thing I can think of is that Marth wanted to be present in order to ensure that Chrom won the tournament, including throwing the match if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The only thing I can think of is regarding Basilio's death. If I remember correctly, when he confronted Walhart, he didn't wanted Flavia to fight since she was the ruling Khan. Perhaps she thought she would alter his mindset if he had been the ruling Khan during the war with Valm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocturnal YL Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Marth probably wanted to make sure Chrom's side would win, yeah. In Lucina and Chrom's C support, Chrom mentioned that Lucina was actually the stronger of the two, and she just purposedly lost to him so that she could keep on sparring with him. Perhaps she did the same in that Feroxi match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melonhead Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Maybe Lon'qu would have won against Chrom, and Marth beat him and held back against Chrom in the actual fight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 ^Rock-paper-scissors style! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkkfan Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 The only thing I can think of is regarding Basilio's death. If I remember correctly, when he confronted Walhart, he didn't wanted Flavia to fight since she was the ruling Khan. Perhaps she thought she would alter his mindset if he had been the ruling Khan during the war with Valm. Hmm. so if Flavia had fought Walhart instead, she would have won? That's interesting. It's similar to the idea that Lon'Qu would have beat Chrom even though Lucina is stronger, because Basilio is definitely stronger than Flavia from their level 10 stats when they join. Marth probably wanted to make sure Chrom's side would win, yeah. In Lucina and Chrom's C support, Chrom mentioned that Lucina was actually the stronger of the two, and she just purposedly lost to him so that she could keep on sparring with him. Perhaps she did the same in that Feroxi match. A good theory. It certainly didn't seem like she was throwing the fight during my last battle with her on Lunatic+ lol!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Hmm. so if Flavia had fought Walhart instead, she would have won? That's interesting. It's similar to the idea that Lon'Qu would have beat Chrom even though Lucina is stronger, because Basilio is definitely stronger than Flavia from their level 10 stats when they join. I wouldn't know if Flavia had been able to defeat Walhart if she had had the chance to fight him. Most likely she couldn't have either. Wait, I just realized, those fights to determine who is the ruling Khan happen once a year. Considering the 2 year time skip... well, at least in the changed time line Flavia was still the Khan after the skip. Though if the circumstances of the fight with Walhart were still not that different, then in the original time line Flavia was also the ruling Khan at least for that year. Well, I can't say for sure, but since Chrom still had to visit them in the original time line for help, I'm pretty sure Chrom also won that one. Unless Basilio had still offered to help against Plegia, since they still helped Ylisse in the original time line, isn't it? Edited February 21, 2013 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRei Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Would Walhart have even been an issue in Lucina's future? Based on what I recall around chapter 6, things wouldn't have even gotten to that point since Plegia would've stolen the Fire Emblem and painted a swath of blood across the land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkkfan Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Would Walhart have even been an issue in Lucina's future? Based on what I recall around chapter 6, things wouldn't have even gotten to that point since Plegia would've stolen the Fire Emblem and painted a swath of blood across the land. I would answer yes to this question, simply because Lucina knew about Basilio's death. But I may be wrong about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Would Walhart have even been an issue in Lucina's future? Based on what I recall around chapter 6, things wouldn't have even gotten to that point since Plegia would've stolen the Fire Emblem and painted a swath of blood across the land. Considering Walhart killed Basilio in the original time line, yes, he was. In fact, everything in Valm remained unchanged in both time lines at least pre-Chapter 12 (except for Say'ri's death depending on when it happened), so pretty much they still attempted to invade. Ylisse and Ferox still won the war with Plegia, it just took longer since Emmeryn's death didn't become a huge tide-turner in the original time line. It's highly likely that Chrom was able to recover the Fire Emblem once they defeated Plegia. And for the record, they still won against Walhart in the original future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Wait, I just realized, those fights to determine who is the ruling Khan happen once a year. Considering the 2 year time skip... well, at least in the changed time line Flavia was still the Khan after the skip. Though if the circumstances of the fight with Walhart were still not that different, then in the original time line Flavia was also the ruling Khan at least for that year. It's every five years. I always thought that Lucina fought there just so that she could duel with dad again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hmm. so if Flavia had fought Walhart instead, she would have won? That's interesting. It's similar to the idea that Lon'Qu would have beat Chrom even though Lucina is stronger, because Basilio is definitely stronger than Flavia from their level 10 stats when they join. I don't know which base stats you're looking at, Flavia's bases wreck Basilio's either way, i'm going with the theory that Lucina threw it (though you wouldn't think so on Lunatic+.....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 While there are nice plausible purposes, I think the fact that they didn't mention it means it was likely something not all that important, e.g. she simply wanted to test out Chrom's strength. The dialog and a certain comic that I probably shouldn't mention suggest that Lon'qu was beaten like, right before, and then "Marth" took the stage, and Flavia mentioned that the tournament was "soon"--we don't know exactly when it happened after that conversation but if there was a few day time period that'd be enough time for "Marth" to find out, beat Lon'qu, and become Basilio's champion. As for why she wanted to test out Chrom's strength, perhaps out of worry of what he was like at this time period (how strong he was etc.) or just because she was feeling sentimental and wanted to duel her dad for old times (ala the C support, where she purposely pretended to be beaten so that she could keep sparring with her dad). Hopefully that rambling made a little sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkkfan Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 I don't know which base stats you're looking at, Flavia's bases wreck Basilio's either way, i'm going with the theory that Lucina threw it (though you wouldn't think so on Lunatic+.....) Hmmm… I suppose. Assuming they both have Silver Axes, Basilio 3HKOs Flavia and Flavia 4HKOs Basilio, but she has the speed to double him, so I guess you're right about her bases being a little bit better. I'm looking for the video of Walhart fighting Basilio so I can calculate his stats to see if Flavia fighting would have made a difference, but I can't seem to find it anywhere online. In any case, Lunatic Flavia has 35 speed so even with max speed, Walhart couldn't double her. Plus, Flavia has an A in swords, so she would get a WTA bonus over Wolf Berg. So, I would say that Flavia would actually have a better chance of winning or at least surviving. But I'm probably reading into this too much like Miriel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algae Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) I would answer yes to this question, simply because Lucina knew about Basilio's death. But I may be wrong about this. Could also have been an attempt to get close to him to change the timeline. She could influence him regarding the war with Valm, similar to how she prevented Emmeryn's assassination. Granted, her throwing the match and/or wanting to fight/make herself known to Chrom makes more sense. Edited February 22, 2013 by Alg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 From the look of things, Lon'qu would've been Basilio's champion had Marth not shown up. But Marth can beat Lon'qu, and Chrom can beat Marth... so how would this have changed the outcome of the events? Furthermore, why would Flavia losing be beneficial to Marth? I can't see any reason. Lon'qu lost to Marth because she's a woman and he's not good with women. Who knows what would have happened if Lon'qu faced off with Chrom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinderSkye Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 There are a lot of little things which could be a little better handled, e.g. the Chekhoving of Tiki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLeafeon Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I always thought that Lucina fought there just so that she could duel with dad again? That was my theory as well. Perhaps she also wanted to get to know her father more by battling with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Lon'qu lost to Marth because she's a woman and he's not good with women. Who knows what would have happened if Lon'qu faced off with Chrom. A friend of mine actually suggested this to me when I hadn't thought of it before. It makes me wonder, though, how Lon'qu would be able to tell that Marth is a woman because I doubt she took off her mask. And anyway, I always thought that Marth just beat Lon'qu through pure skill, because Marth IS supposed to be a pretty powerful swordsman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLeafeon Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 A friend of mine actually suggested this to me when I hadn't thought of it before. It makes me wonder, though, how Lon'qu would be able to tell that Marth is a woman because I doubt she took off her mask. And anyway, I always thought that Marth just beat Lon'qu through pure skill, because Marth IS supposed to be a pretty powerful swordsman. Her battle voice makes it VERY VERY clear. She might have done a decent job disguising her voice in the cutscenes, but her battle voice is 100% feminine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRei Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I think I read somewhere that it's better explained in the manga version. Something like, he brushes against her during their battle and subconsciously realizes she's female, and his body reacts accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocturnal YL Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 A friend of mine actually suggested this to me when I hadn't thought of it before. It makes me wonder, though, how Lon'qu would be able to tell that Marth is a woman because I doubt she took off her mask. And anyway, I always thought that Marth just beat Lon'qu through pure skill, because Marth IS supposed to be a pretty powerful swordsman. The same way we as players knew she's a woman even before the game was out? Nintendo Dream's comic's explanation:[spoiler=Nintnedo Dream comic; read left-to-right] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Someone translate that entire comic and post it. I want to read it. Every. Single. Page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Stalker X Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Someone translate that entire comic and post it. I want to read it. Every. Single. Page. I believe I remember Vincent mention that the 'Heroes of Shadow' would be working on translating those comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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