FE13 and Eirika

[NeonZ]

Don't forget that she'll get one of those long end of chapter conversations in Smash Brethen 2, so her characterization in Awakening isn't just limited to that first DLC map.

Regarding her class... If they had included her as a promoted unit, wouldn't she have been a Paladin? I figure they included her in her starting level to have her as an unmounted sword fighter. And the "Bride" class of her DLC version is addressed in the DLC itself.

[nocturnal YL]

Join the club.

Also tell Intelligent Systems with your wallet as in don't buy the bride DLC.

I didn't buy that DLC. Same for the other episodes 1 and 2 of the past hero subseries. Didn't get Champion of Yore 2 and 3 either. Series 1 DLC just look so weak to me, save for Infinite Regalia (which is awesome) and maybe Rogues and Redeemers 3 (Ike looks ridiculous, but at least it's a challenging map).

The same reason Sigurd's named weapon in the game is a lance not a sword for no reason. Because IS wanted it to be.

I'm not surprised by that one. He is shown using both Tyrfing and Sigurd's Lance in his battles.

Don't forget that she'll get one of those long end of chapter conversations in Smash Brethen 2, so her characterization in Awakening isn't just limited to that first DLC map.

Regarding her class... If they had included her as a promoted unit, wouldn't she have been a Paladin? I figure they included her in her starting level to have her as an unmounted sword fighter. And the "Bride" class of her DLC version is addressed in the DLC itself.

Haven't read that recruitment conversation myself. I believe it says something like Eirika finding a strange item while rushing on her way to the battlefield, which is why she is fighting in that outfit.

And yeah, she should have been a paladin. Same for Seliph. Them being sword units might be references to their background (Eirika's stats and Seliph's origin).

[Mysterique Sign]

Eirika is the most traditionally feminine of the female Lord characters with the possible exception of FE 9 Elincia (but not FE 10 Elincia)

Eirika is pretty naive, as has been pointed out

Lancefaire is a female exclusive skill

The Bride class kicks ass

Making her a Paladin with Swordfaire would make more sense than making her a Swordmaster IMO

[RJWalker]

So here's a question. Who was Eirika marrying that she's now in a bride's dress?

Deploying Flameshields.

[nocturnal YL]

So here's a question. Who was Eirika marrying that she's now in a bride's dress?

Deploying Flameshields.

Japanese FE communities raised the same question when this DLC was announced.

Serious explanation: Since she just picked a random item and was reclassed as a result, she's not actually going to marry anyone.

Eirika is the most traditionally feminine of the female Lord characters with the possible exception of FE 9 Elincia (but not FE 10 Elincia)

Eirika is pretty naive, as has been pointed out

Lancefaire is a female exclusive skill

The Bride class kicks ass

Making her a Paladin with Swordfaire would make more sense than making her a Swordmaster IMO

The Bride class is good for Eirika, perhaps. But it's also available for all female units. Compared to Dread Fighter, Bride is... much less useful. It's less universally applicable than Dread Fighter.

Agreed with the Paladin with Swordfaire part.

[Othin]

Eliwood is already a Paladin with Swordfaire, and so is Eldigan. You can't give everyone that treatment.

[Darth_Lavos]

MagicLeafy asked, what do I mean when I say I don't like how FE13 treats Eirika (and the Bride class too). Well, here's my take on it:

• SpotPass
  Unlike other lead characters, Eirika starts off as a level 1 unit. I don't know if this is a good thing (makes her usable much earlier) or a bad one (puts her in line with starting [true] non-main [not true] units). I'd say a bad one. She should have been the last unit in the FE8 queue, being the overall main character of that game.

The main character of FE8 is the last character of the queue. Also, Eirika being first and Ephriam being last makes a lot of sense with trying to convert previous Lords into FE13 classes. Their really isn't a lance using equivalent to Ephriam's Lord class, as he didn't have a mount and Knight really doesn't fit, so he had to be one of the later ones on the queue to get a mount and fit into the class system. Eirika on the other hand was basically a swordmaster on a horse, and neither Paladin or Great Knight really fit that bill, and neither does just being a swordmaster. Easiest solution was to put her a myrmidon to give a more 'canonical' class.

• Champions of Yore 1
  She's gullible? Easy to deceive? Is that how history has painted her? That's oddly unfair to her..

I thought this was more attributed to her kindness and innocence, as she was for most of FE8(As previous posters have explained with Orson and Lyon).

• Smash Brethren 2
  Bride class. The class itself isn't bad by intention, but as I mentioned before, I hate that class because it has a high face value (cap total, Rally Love) but with less-than-stellar usefulness.* That aside, it also means that DLC Eirika will start with Sword E (Quick: what class was Eirika in before she changed to bride?), and without any immediate way to change her into an advanced class (since she starts as a level 23 bride). Maybe it's not intended by IS, but all these have made her rather crippled, at least in terms of starting abilities.
  * There's the high magic cap with next to no way to use magic because Shoskstick is both powerless (Mt 11) and melee-only (the only magic in the series to be so). Also, Bonds is crappy and Rally Love is worse than Rally Spectrum, although some argue that it's a powered up Rally Movement.

First of all, Rally Love. You seem to think that because it's a dumbed down version of what is arguably the best skill in the game(And one with very limited availability at that) it's a bad skill? Secondly, Bonds. Free healing over 10% of the HP cap for everyone in a 3 tile radius is not crappy. Thirdly, because IS decided split all weapons between Bride and Demon fighter Magic had to be on one side, and stave and bows had to be on the other. Can't have one class with dedicated range or magic. Axes usually end up going with the male and lances and swords were split to give both classes a higher hit melee weapon. Personally I would have rather both classes just had access to a melee + magic, but their aren't many ways they could have split up who got what weapons without it being onesided in one way or another.

• General
  Alright, so the above seem to have made her somewhat more... traditionally feminine. What's the deal? Well, a big one, to me. Being the main character of the first FE game I have seriously played and completed, I'd say she's... well, she defined what an FE princess looks like to me. Brave, has a strong resolve, and can generally get ahold of herself and fight on despite having a personal, emotional side. FE13 basically took all of those away, in both story and statistical terms. Does this game hate her or what?

Between Spotpass being spotpass and DLC characters being "Einherjar" FE13 took away most story from most all characters. By statistically I'm guessing you mean the Bride class. Bride class was put in because IS didn't want Demon Fighter to be put on females(most likely to stop from putting Res+10 on Peggy/falcon knights) and IS wanted females to have a DLC-exclusive class to counter it. Not to represent Eirika as a character. They probably wanted to give the DLC class to a Lord, so that narrows the options down to Lyn, Eirika, and Micaiah. If anything she got special treatment(IMO) in getting the class. They most likely wanted to put who they thought was the best lord from a marketing standpoint to be the Bride class(as they obviously didn't do it canonically as they did with the Dread Fighter) to sell more DLC.

[nocturnal YL]

The main character of FE8 is the last character of the queue. Also, Eirika being first and Ephriam being last makes a lot of sense with trying to convert previous Lords into FE13 classes. Their really isn't a lance using equivalent to Ephriam's Lord class, as he didn't have a mount and Knight really doesn't fit, so he had to be one of the later ones on the queue to get a mount and fit into the class system. Eirika on the other hand was basically a swordmaster on a horse, and neither Paladin or Great Knight really fit that bill, and neither does just being a swordmaster. Easiest solution was to put her a myrmidon to give a more 'canonical' class.

Well, in most cases, the queue pattern goes like this: Main characters and main villains take the last few slots, and the remaining ones queuing up in an order roughly equivalent to the availability in the original game. Eirika's positioning seems to suggest that she's been demoted from being main character, which feels strange to me. But perhaps like Othin said, Sword Paladin has been used too many times and there's no other equivalent that can be given to her. And I agree that I'll probably like it less if they give her Swordmaster (I already don't like that Seliph is one, but I guess they're avoiding making every past lord Paladin).

I thought this was more attributed to her kindness and innocence, as she was for most of FE8(As previous posters have explained with Orson and Lyon).

Well, that's one way to put it, considering how she tried to be courteous at first in this DLC. Hubba's way to describe her is less than stellar though (not that he's putting other card spirits in better light).

First of all, Rally Love. You seem to think that because it's a dumbed down version of what is arguably the best skill in the game(And one with very limited availability at that) it's a bad skill? Secondly, Bonds. Free healing over 10% of the HP cap for everyone in a 3 tile radius is not crappy. Thirdly, because IS decided split all weapons between Bride and Demon fighter Magic had to be on one side, and stave and bows had to be on the other. Can't have one class with dedicated range or magic. Axes usually end up going with the male and lances and swords were split to give both classes a higher hit melee weapon. Personally I would have rather both classes just had access to a melee + magic, but their aren't many ways they could have split up who got what weapons without it being onesided in one way or another.

Moreso than saying Rally Love is useless, I'm more annoyed that... How sould I put it?

Well, Dread Fighter gets Res+10 and Atk+10 (essentially Str+10 and Mag+10), both of which have no non-DLC equivalent that are anywhere as powerful.

On the other hand, Bride gets All+2 (on others), Mov+2 (on others) and Recover+10 (on others), and all of Bride's skills can somewhat be replaced (with Relieve, Renewal and Rally Spectrum).

If Dread Fighters get what's like 5 times Res+2 (as useless as Res+2 is in itself) and what's roughly like weapon-faire (which is useful), shouldn't Brides at least get skills that, say, bestows All+4 and Mov+1, and make nearby units restore 40 HP (or half of max HP)?

And for the split weapons, I can totally see the reason - among the 6 weapon types, give #1, #3 and #5 to Dread Fighter and #2, #4 and #6 to Bride, simple as that. I even correctly predicted Lance/Bow/Staff before the Bride class is made known. It's the unintended side effects that bug me - Dread Fighter gets all 3 weapon types that can cast magic at range (Levin Sword, Bolt Axe, tomes), while Bride gets zero. Simply swapping bows and magic would make things much more balanced. Alternatively, making Shockstick less useless would immediately solve the problem.

Bride doesn't look bad in itself if it's not for the overpowered Dread Fighter. That class gave me false antipation that other DLC classes would be like that. I expected something like "when attacked, Atk+5" and "passive Def+10".

Between Spotpass being spotpass and DLC characters being "Einherjar" FE13 took away most story from most all characters. By statistically I'm guessing you mean the Bride class. Bride class was put in because IS didn't want Demon Fighter to be put on females(most likely to stop from putting Res+10 on Peggy/falcon knights) and IS wanted females to have a DLC-exclusive class to counter it. Not to represent Eirika as a character. They probably wanted to give the DLC class to a Lord, so that narrows the options down to Lyn, Eirika, and Micaiah. If anything she got special treatment(IMO) in getting the class. They most likely wanted to put who they thought was the best lord from a marketing standpoint to be the Bride class(as they obviously didn't do it canonically as they did with the Dread Fighter) to sell more DLC.

I don't want Res+10 to exist in the first place. Males can become broken with this skill too - there's the Sorceror class for that.

I do agree on the promotion stuff. While I don't like the Bride class and Eirika getting the class would add to my gripes on how the game treats her, I'd say this is better than the alternative of a Bride Lyn, Micaiah or Celica, in terms of how will it appear visually.

If anything, I feel somewhat better if you're putting the matters that way.

[Dragrath]

And because Dread Fighter got Swords first.

I hated that... the Demon fighter got all the good weapons leaving the bride with... lances and trash...

considering I only bring 1-2 staff wielders and that their main purpose is fighting... I also prefer staff wielders to be magic specialists... aka sage or bust...(highest magic cap for staff wielders)

but the real issue for the class is the look weird using lances and bows while wearing that dress... honestly tomes and swords and staffs are what they should have been given... but dread fighter took tomes and swords... -_-

[Folt]

I hated that... the Demon fighter got all the good weapons leaving the bride with... lances and trash...

considering I only bring 1-2 staff wielders and that their main purpose is fighting... I also prefer staff wielders to be magic specialists... aka sage or bust...(highest magic cap for staff wielders)

but the real issue for the class is the look weird using lances and bows while wearing that dress... honestly tomes and swords and staffs are what they should have been given... but dread fighter took tomes and swords... -_-

Eh, we already have Grandmaster and Dark Knight serving your purpose for magic-wielding swordsmen, and the Trickster class serves your needs for a healer with a sword. Staff users wielding tomes are easy to get thanks to Sage (or Valkyrie), and Staff users that can wield Lances and Axes can be found on War Monks/Clerics and Falcon Knights. Bride is perhaps one of the only classes that I've seen on the player side that can wield both Bows and Staves, just like Demon FIghter is one of the only classes I've seen on the player side that can wield both Axes and Tomes ('bout freaking time in my opinion).

Besides, I'd rather have had the Lance on the Demon Fighter than the Sword, offense-wise.

[PuffPuff]

Between Spotpass being spotpass and DLC characters being "Einherjar"

It's as if they've got this idea off of Valkyrie Profile.

Who wouldn't!?

Edited March 9, 2013 by Katarina

[Thunderfox]

I didn't buy that DLC. Same for the other episodes 1 and 2 of the past hero subseries. Didn't get Champion of Yore 2 and 3 either. Series 1 DLC just look so weak to me, save for Infinite Regalia (which is awesome) and maybe Rogues and Redeemers 3 (Ike looks ridiculous, but at least it's a challenging map).

Ah, if you had you bought them you would've seen Eliwood getting made fun of hardcore. Perhaps not in the same way, but your point of Eirika getting singled out, not quite accurate.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Thunderfox

[Emperor Hardin]

Orson had the face of a villain, hence why I saw his betrayal coming

Really Eirika should have seen it coming, I mean even without noticing that concealed sword, you just don't trust a guy like that over Seth (i'd have given Seth the sacred stone at the beginning of the game)

Now am I right, or am I right

Orson doesn't have the face of a villain.

He has the face of a Jeigan.

[Othin]

There really isn't a better way to distribute the six weapons than the way it turned out.

[Emperor Hardin]

There really isn't a better way to distribute the six weapons than the way it turned out.

Still Bride as a class, involving wearing a cumbersome wedding dress in the middle of a bloody battlefield! I get the weapons, but why didn't they go with Master Knight or some sort of variation on Halberdier/Recruit 3?

[Othin]

A Halberdier or a Master Knight as a female-only class with lance/bow/staff access?

[Emperor Hardin]

A Halberdier or a Master Knight as a female-only class with lance/bow/staff access?

Lachesis was the only Master knight in FE4's first generation. The class used Lances, Bows, and Staves. It being a female only class is no more of a stretch then Dread Fighter being male only, as the latter is a promotion of the unisex Myrmidon/Hero classes.

I was suggesting a Halberdier type class, as in similar but not the same. Basically a lightly armored female fighter who uses Staves and Bow in addition to Lances. It might even look similar to Anna's merchant class.

[Mysterique Sign]

So they can kick ass in all their finery

[bookofholsety]

Lachesis was the only Master knight in FE4's first generation. The class used Lances, Bows, and Staves. It being a female only class is no more of a stretch then Dread Fighter being male only, as the latter is a promotion of the unisex Myrmidon/Hero classes.

I was suggesting a Halberdier type class, as in similar but not the same. Basically a lightly armored female fighter who uses Staves and Bow in addition to Lances. It might even look similar to Anna's merchant class.

Considering that the Master Knight's defining trait was its use of all weapon types save Dark, it seems downright silly that a FE13 Master Knight would use only half of the available weapon types (and that it'd be missing swords, which are kind of the primary weapons of both Leif and Raquesis). As for the Dread Fighter's male-only status, while the Mercenary line is (finally!) unisex in FE6 and FE13, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case in FE2.

I can sort of see why you went for Master Knight, though - it's pretty hard to think of any past classes, especially ones dominated by females, with a strong association with at least two of these three weapon types. As much of a stretch as it is, it certainly fits better than any other class if you don't take into account it missing the Master Knight's original defining trait. The only other thing that really comes to mind (not counting classes which are already in vanilla FE13) is FE10's Silver Knight. I guess were I in IS's shoes, I'd also have gone for an original class for the female-exclusive DLC class... I just wouldn't have done something quite as absurd as the Bride. :P

[Folt]

As for the Dread Fighter's male-only status, while the Mercenary line is (finally!) unisex in FE6 and FE13, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case in FE2.

Just looked up which of the playable Gaiden Characters can become a Dread Fighter. All are male. So yes, that's probably why Dread Fighter is male only.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Folt

[nocturnal YL]

Ah, if you had you bought them you would've seen Eliwood getting made fun of hardcore. Perhaps not in the same way, but your point of Eirika getting singled out, not quite accurate.

Poor guy, even he himself doesn't have self-confidence. I recallt that he's basically like "I'm useless compared to Lyn and Hector" in the DLC chapters he's in.

There really isn't a better way to distribute the six weapons than the way it turned out.

Well, like I said before, swap bows and tomes. Then both Dread Fighter and Bride would both have usable physical and magical weapons. Axes and Bolt Axe for Dread Fighter, and lances and tomes for Bride.

I would, speaking for myself, rank the weapon types as:

Wpn      My    Range  Range   Other
Type   Rating  (Phy)  (Mag)   Comments
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Axes    *****   1-2    1-2    Purchasable physical ranged axes aren't
                             powerful, but at least both physical and
                             magical units can use axes for ranged attacks

Tomes   ****           1-2    Best power among all 1-2 weapons, but not
                             usable by physical units such as Cordelia

Lances  **      1-2           Not usable by magic units lacking Str like
                             Miriel; the only magical attack option is
                             Shockstick, which has a range of 1 only

Swords  **       1     1-2    You'll have to enter the random regalia lucky
                             draw if you want range 1-2 Ragnell from DLC;
                             Levin Sword less powerful than Bolt Axe

Bows    *        2            Accurate with class buster bonus, but cannot
                             fight back and is physical only

(Range for all-class weapons purchasable at will only, not counting regalia, random weapons and class-locked weapons)

...Which I hope explains why do I not like the weapon type distribution. Dread Fighter is way too overpowered and Bride isn't as strong, simple as that. And I don't think changing the class's name or appearance alone can atone that - it is, to me, more about the skills and weapon types.

[Folt]

Poor guy, even he himself doesn't have self-confidence. I recallt that he's basically like "I'm useless compared to Lyn and Hector" in the DLC chapters he's in.

Well, like I said before, swap bows and tomes. Then both Dread Fighter and Bride would both have usable physical and magical weapons. Axes and Bolt Axe for Dread Fighter, and lances and tomes for Bride.

I would, speaking for myself, rank the weapon types as:

Wpn      My    Range  Range   Other
Type   Rating  (Phy)  (Mag)   Comments
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Axes    *****   1-2    1-2    Purchasable physical ranged axes aren't
                             powerful, but at least both physical and
                             magical units can use axes for ranged attacks

Tomes   ****   		1-2    Best power among all 1-2 weapons, but not
                             usable by physical units such as Cordelia

Lances  **      1-2   		Not usable by magic units lacking Str like
                             Miriel; the only magical attack option is
                             Shockstick, which has a range of 1 only

Swords  **   	1 	1-2    You'll have to enter the random regalia lucky
                             draw if you want range 1-2 Ragnell from DLC;
                             Levin Sword less powerful than Bolt Axe

Bows    *        2            Accurate with class buster bonus, but cannot
                             fight back and is physical only

(Range for all-class weapons purchasable at will only, not counting regalia, random weapons and class-locked weapons)

...Which I hope explains why do I not like the weapon type distribution. Dread Fighter is way too overpowered and Bride isn't as strong, simple as that. And I don't think changing the class's name or appearance alone can atone that - it is, to me, more about the skills and weapon types.

Dread Fighter with Swords/Axes/Bows would frankly be outclassed by Warriors, Heroes, and Assassins, and I daresay Bow Knights as well. Sword/Axe/Tome allows a weapon combo (Axe + Tome) that no other class can get.

And as far as Bride goes, it's supposed to be the foil to the Dread Fighter class. The Dread Fighter class is more built for offense, so the Bride, while an ok fighter, was built more along the lines of utility and support, as reflected in their skills.

[Othin]

As things currently stand, Dread Fighter and Bride share between them a total of three unique weapon combinations and each have a good mix of physical and magical abilities. Swapping bows and tomes would mean they would have precisely no unique weapon combinations and simply leave Dread Fighter as a slightly more versatile physical class and Bride as a slightly more versatile magic class. In other words, that switch would obliterate the point of having the classes at all.

Any other switch would have its own share of problems. Not all of them quite as bad, but there simply isn't a better arrangement to go with.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Othin

[Emperor Hardin]

Just looked up which of the playable Gaiden Characters can become a Dread Fighter. All are male. So yes, that's probably why Dread Fighter is male only.

There weren't any female archers or soldiers/armor knights in FE2 either, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Folt]

There weren't any female archers or soldiers/armor knights in FE2 either, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

That just means that Archers and Soldiers/Armor Knights were exclusive to males in Gaiden as well.