Archers are not that bad

[Shikinoyume]

ever since i told my friends that i have 2 archers in my main team everyone starts raging on me for having them.

they say archers are bad and are useless on the enemy phase as well.

"they have no str, def, or res, no matter what class, and any class that uses a bow is crap"

and i recently discovered that Inigo (who inherited Gale force) he has for 2 runs now made the ultimate Bow knight, or assassin

its completely ridiculous, he also has patience and lucky 7 with the option of getting either lethality or Astra or both! and they are extremely good on him

he has less options if i go bow knight but still REALLY good

you just Arrow down your enemy Gale Force switch to a sword and prepare for the enemy.

or arrow 2 enemys then have Olivia Dance for him then switch to a sword its way to good @-@

Gale force is sooooooo broken @-@

(the other archer is Owain also as an assassin, if you were wondering)

you probably were not wondering though

Ps: Lon'qu Father's Champions!

and i know assassins are not really "archers" but its close enough they are bow uses :/

basically cooler looking bow knights on foot

Edited March 8, 2013 by Shikihime

[Integrity]

imaknow

The only thing I use archers for is getting BOWBREAKER for my darling daughters to make their careers as pegaponyprincesses easier.

[PuffPuff]

The only thing I use archers for is getting BOWBREAKER for my darling daughters to make their careers as pegaponyprincesses easier.

Forgetting to hold her tight in the process. =P

-----

Bowknights may get bad defenses, but their good offenses and movement more than make up for it! If only the Sniper class would give you Hawkeye, it otherwise would be a wonderful skill to have.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Katarina

[Elieson]

The reason archers get a lot of flak is because while they may have power, they lack use on the Enemy phase of a turn.

Now Galeforce has the ability to minimize that, but considering you had to get him Galeforce to make him useful with a bow as a BowKnight, when he'd be pretty useful with most other forms of combat regardless, is eehhhhhhh.

Think of it this way. Without Galeforce, how useful is a bow-locked unit?

Turn1 Player Phase: Attack/Chip/Kill an enemy.

Turn1 Enemy Phase: get attacked by up to 4 enemies and counterattack 0 of them because they all have steel lances/spears/hand axes/tomes, and attack you right up to your face.

Versus say a Sage, who counters everything that attacks them always and forever (minus Longbow users), or a Warrior with a HandAxe, or Swordmaster with Amatsu, or a Paladin with a Javelin/ShortSpear.

See what I'm getting at? Even if Archer-other Bow-based units have the opportunity to attack on player phase, it's not worth it's weight in salt if they need Galeforce to function decently. Bow Knights have lower stat caps as it is, compared to other classes like Assassin, and considering the generally small and clustered maps, you should have no problem having a unit with better potential pull off something like using a bow and tradeshuffling or Galeforce gear switching.

That's just the way it is. This game is pretty kind to archers in that they can Dual Attack with other units pretty effectively, and that Bows pretty commonly outdamage other in-game based weaponry bar Tomes, but one thing they simply have trouble doing is countering enemy units on the back half of a turn.

[Integrity]

Think of it this way. Without Galeforce, how useful is a bow-locked unit?

Turn1 Player Phase: Attack/Chip/Kill an enemy.

Turn1 Enemy Phase: get attacked by up to 4 enemies and counterattack 0 of them because they all have steel lances/spears/hand axes/tomes, and attack you right up to your face.

Versus say a Sage, who counters everything that attacks them always and forever (minus Longbow users), or a Warrior with a HandAxe, or Swordmaster with Amatsu, or a Paladin with a Javelin/ShortSpear.

This might be the single most loaded statement on the boards right now. :(

I'm not going to go all-out and say "archers > hand axers" at basically anything except picking fliers, but dude. You're making archers out to be dead-useless.

[Shadow Mir]

The reason archers get a lot of flak is because while they may have power, they lack use on the Enemy phase of a turn.

Now Galeforce has the ability to minimize that, but considering you had to get him Galeforce to make him useful with a bow as a BowKnight, when he'd be pretty useful with most other forms of combat regardless, is eehhhhhhh.

Think of it this way. Without Galeforce, how useful is a bow-locked unit?

Turn1 Player Phase: Attack/Chip/Kill an enemy.

Turn1 Enemy Phase: get attacked by up to 4 enemies and counterattack 0 of them because they all have steel lances/spears/hand axes/tomes, and attack you right up to your face.

Versus say a Sage, who counters everything that attacks them always and forever (minus Longbow users), or a Warrior with a HandAxe, or Swordmaster with Amatsu, or a Paladin with a Javelin/ShortSpear.

See what I'm getting at? Even if Archer-other Bow-based units have the opportunity to attack on player phase, it's not worth it's weight in salt if they need Galeforce to function decently. Bow Knights have lower stat caps as it is, compared to other classes like Assassin, and considering the generally small and clustered maps, you should have no problem having a unit with better potential pull off something like using a bow and tradeshuffling or Galeforce gear switching.

That's just the way it is. This game is pretty kind to archers in that they can Dual Attack with other units pretty effectively, and that Bows pretty commonly outdamage other in-game based weaponry bar Tomes, but one thing they simply have trouble doing is countering enemy units on the back half of a turn.

IMO, bows still have a place since hand axes and javelins aren't powerful enough to be worth it unless forged.

[Shikinoyume]

Bowknights may get bad defenses, but their good offenses and movement more than make up for it! If only the Sniper class would give you Hawkeye, it otherwise would be a wonderful skill to have.

it would be really great if Snipers got that skill that Rolf and Shion got in RD even though it was not really a skill

where they could use a bow from 1-3 range

or if there were a Double bow in this game ._.

that would work

IMO, bows still have a place since hand axes and javelins aren't powerful enough to be worth it unless forged.

I was going to respond to that with the exact same thing you beat me to it xD

Now Galeforce has the ability to minimize that, but considering you had to get him Galeforce to make him useful with a bow as a BowKnight, when he'd be pretty useful with most other forms of combat regardless, is eehhhhhhh.

Think of it this way. Without Galeforce, how useful is a bow-locked unit?

they are still pretty Useful, in their own right

isant that what you are suppose to do?...

re-classing and inheriting to make Units who would other wise be not that good, or who don't fit your play style be good enough to fit?

Edited March 8, 2013 by Shikihime

[Shadow Mir]

it would be really great if Snipers got that skill that Rolf and Shion got in RD even though it was not really a skill

where they could use a bow from 1-3 range

or if there were a Double bow in this game ._.

that would work

I was going to respond to that with the exact same thing you beat me to it xD

The Double Bow is in this game, but it's 2-3 range... and only given out randomly in Infinite Regalia.

[Folt]

IMO, bows still have a place since hand axes and javelins aren't powerful enough to be worth it unless forged.

Not to mention Lunatic+ gives all enemies hax skill combos like Counter + Vantage (or Hawkeye) or something else, so an Archer would in theory be quite safe on the player phase, including early on in the game.

[Shikinoyume]

The Double Bow is in this game, but it's 2-3 range... and only given out randomly in Infinite Regalia.

well thats lame... has it always been like that?

i could swear it was like 1-2?

if its 2-3 why not just call it a "Long bow+ "?

lol

[Shadow Mir]

well thats lame... has it always been like that?

i could swear it was like 1-2?

if its 2-3 why not just call it a "Long bow+ "?

lol

No. It was 4 range (and restricted to snipers) in FE9, and 1-2 range in RD.

[Shikinoyume]

No. It was 4 range (and restricted to snipers) in FE9, and 1-2 range in RD.

thats what i figured, thanks! ^-^

4 range explains why its called a "Double" Bow double the range

or being able to hit 1-2 "double" as in close and far range

but why 2-3?... we already have long bows...

even though they were not THAT good, i would have preferred Crossbows over another Longbow

Edited March 8, 2013 by Shikihime

[Elieson]

I'm not saying bow users are horrible, but you don't see people rushing to reclass Chrom to Sniper/Bowknight, do you?

In terms of efficiency, bow usrrs have a niche. That niche isn't clearing out hordes of enemies.

Though as I said, the power behind bows is pretty hard to replicate without LATEGAME / Postgame rarities.

[shadowofchaos]

In Lunatic, I never really used archers as soon as I got other classes to get bows to pick at fliers.

But, if you want to be a troll on streetpass, you HAVE to put counter on one. It's just GLORIOUS.

Pretty much what Lunatic+ throws at you to say "lol, no."

Edited March 8, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Shikinoyume]

I'm not saying bow users are horrible, but you don't see people rushing to reclass Chrom to Sniper/Bowknight, do you?

I did actually i got him Ageis and made him a Bow Knight (only so he could still use Flachion)

and he has a Brave bow + aether, its too good

But, if you want to be a troll on streetpass, you HAVE to put counter on one. It's just GLORIOUS.

Pretty much what Lunatic+ throws at you to say "lol, no."

lol i did that to a Assassin gave him Sol and Counter + wrath, and Gale force and Quick burn

Ps: Love Olivia

Edited March 8, 2013 by Shikihime

[sunshineYON]

Bows are Lance Mt right? What if they had the weight(oh wait that's not in this game) of swords and Mt of Axes? Would the no counter attack on the enemy phase still make them cumbersome? Or make them default 2-3 range, would that make them too broken? I know for sure 1-3 Range is teribad broken, i.e. Marksman + Double bow, but RD archers were very good just because of the Marksman class. Shinon and Rolf ripped shit up in that game.

[dondon151]

RD snipers were not very good either

[nyttyn]

There's also the problem of Virion sucking massive balls and the only decent snipers not being worth a dick coming far too late since by then you have access to far superior units.

Honestly if you really want to you can get away with using archers on normal or even hard, but on lunatic and above why bother? You're going to be too busy breaking the game with Gale Force Notsferavatar and Morgan anyway.

I honestly cannot think of a single scenario in which I would rather have an Archer over, say, a Dark Mage, or hell just a regular Mage. Even the whole Longbow's range thing is gimmicky at best because you only get one of the damn things on most playthroughs, and the only reliable source of Longbows is a oneshot deal which also requires hitting 720 renown at least once

Edited March 8, 2013 by nyttyn

[someonewhodied]

Snipers are good.

Longbow/Double Bow

Counter

Renewal

Sol

Lifetaker

Armsthrift

Done.

[Elieson]

So we are talkin Grindgame/Postgame then

[Titamon]

So basically, Archers are only good when you power-level them and put together special skill sets for them?

[nyttyn]

Sounds like the definition of "Not worth it," to me, especially considering I could have a far more insane Dark Mage for the same degree of investment. Let's face it: Archers are fucking terrible, in every sense of the word. They are just outclassed by everything except Villager, and Villager is basically a joke class only there to say "Fuck you for using Donnel."

Edited March 8, 2013 by nyttyn

[Renall]

Archers are not that bad.

They're not that good either.

If I really wanted to use bows I'd whip out an Assassin or (better still) a Warrior. Love me dat Virion!Yarne Warrior with Bowfaire. Stahl!Yarne would be even better, but I needed him elsewhere in my current run. But I wouldn't keep him a Sniper under any circumstances. Warrior has identical SPD and DEF but +7 STR, to say nothing of Axes. Stick a Brave Bow and Counter on that, not some wussy Sniper.

There are a few advantages, but not nearly enough. I suppose on a Streetpass team a forged Longbow or Double Bow user would be fun and not immediately suicide onto a Nosferatank, so they have a place there, but the fact that Virion is a bit sluggish and Noire is rather late makes them hard to recommend to me.

[Faye]

I use Bow Knights because mobility. D: At least they can use just swords no problem.

[Sublime Manic]

and i recently discovered that Inigo (who inherited Gale force) he has for 2 runs now made the ultimate Bow knight, or assassin

its completely ridiculous, he also has patience and lucky 7 with the option of getting either lethality or Astra or both! and they are extremely good on him

he has less options if i go bow knight but still REALLY good

Bow Knights & Assassins are NOT locked to using JUST bows the way Archers and Snipers are. And when people say that Archers are bad, they're usually referring to Archers/Snipers specifically.

I also really like Inigo as a Bow Knight with Galeforce, which does let him use a bow for his first kill on player phase if you want, yes. I like it more for making him a mounted male Galeforce unit that can ferry my Hero Severa across maps easily, though.