Legault! Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 For one, the idea was to have Olivia Pair Up with Avatar until married. Which is inefficient for a number of reasons, including "eh" pair up bonuses and the inability to meaningfully dual attack. For two, according to research, Chrom needs enough support points for a C in order for the game to prioritize him marrying anyone over the Maiden, which means you'll probably be wasting extra time in Ch 11 to get him married to Olivia. It might not matter to most for the purposes of RTUs, but it is a mark against her. Is this how it works? I thought it was simply a matter of highest-support-points; if you're right, then Chrom!Inigo's plausibility goes out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 For one, the idea was to have Olivia Pair Up with Avatar until married. For two, according to research, Chrom needs enough support points for a C in order for the game to prioritize him marrying anyone over the Maiden, which means you'll probably be wasting extra time in Ch 11 to get him married to Olivia. It might not matter to most for the purposes of RTUs, but it is a mark against her. I have gotten a C with Olivia with no skirmishing between 11 and 13, and I was doing stuff like 2 turning chapter 11, what Legaut's suggesting actually isn't hard. Just don't let him actually activate C rank with any female. If it's actually worth it on the other hand is a different story, but it's definitely possible, and is probably Inigo's best bet since Chrom also is capable of not caring who his support is, bonus being that he gets to have exp all to himself since he doesn't have a partner he has to share exp with ever. Inigo will basically have to work off Chrom's stats, which is still pretty good. He's still probably better of fathering Kjelle, cause he makes her berserk as a cav. As to answer the poll, I'd say best possible outcome, because that at least would provoke discussion on how to best pair up parents. For example: I've found that Cordelia+Kellam is an award winning combo. If this works well for the kid, I don't know. but it at least gives Severa a Rally that gives Defense and Speed or Move, so that's at least pretty sweet utility. I think another thing that has to be considered is recruitment order. For example: Yarne would like to be in sooner the better because he's awesome, but you can easily wait till late to recruit him because he's just that good and his chapter is that annoying. Kjelle's chapter is the easiest, so you could probably recruit her ASAP, along with Morgan, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Wouldn't a breakdown on how each pair benefits each kid be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) Which is inefficient for a number of reasons, including "eh" pair up bonuses and the inability to meaningfully dual attack. Pairing Olivia with anyone isn't easy. Avatar x Olivia isn't really worse than anyone else, but is probably better than most since Avatar is much more likely to be able to sustain himself on mediocre Dancer support bonuses than other units. Of course, if your goal is simply to get Olivia married, the easiest way is to marry or kill off Chrom's other candidates and get her an insta-marriage with him. I am not disagreeing with you, but yeah. I have gotten a C with Olivia with no skirmishing between 11 and 13, and I was doing stuff like 2 turning chapter 11, what Legaut's suggesting actually isn't hard. Just don't let him actually activate C rank with any female. Do remember that Chrom gets married immediately after Ch 11; if he doesn't build enough points for a C with Olivia in that map, he won't marry her. For some reason they decided to have Chrom's last marriage candidate join without any time to even grind skirmishes for supports. Edited March 23, 2013 by Red Fox of Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) Do remember that Chrom gets married immediately after Ch 11; if he doesn't build enough points for a C with Olivia in that map, he won't marry her. For some reason they decided to have Chrom's last marriage candidate join without any time to even grind skirmishes for supports. I got a C after chapter 12, not that hard. EDIT: Er sorry, victim of super skimming. Immediately at chapter 11? ....Uh ok. Harder than I thought. Edited March 23, 2013 by grandjackal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Doofina, in practice how many female parents reach S support in an efficient playthrough of HM? I could see maybe Sully, Sumia, and Cordelia. The only one that in my mind is a sure thing is Avatar-F assuming a Chrom S-rank, which is just good common sense to me assuming a female Avatar is picked (if not, Chromvatar's still getting a quick A-rank, so they could both swap over to wife candidates fairly quickly). But of those only Kjelle is really arguably worthwhile to try recruiting, at least in a turncount sense. But that would sort of defeat the purpose if you're like "OK, you're never actually going to recruit Brady because Maribelle is a piece of shit who doesn't have time to get married." Yet trying to compare the kids in any context other than caps is going to assume either some amount of grinding or just writing off half the children as not viable to bother with no matter how easy their parentage is to arrange. And comparing at caps is grossly unrealistic. Basically I don't know how you would even do it for this sort of endeavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) As to answer the poll, I'd say best possible outcome, because that at least would provoke discussion on how to best pair up parents. For example: I've found that Cordelia+Kellam is an award winning combo. If this works well for the kid, I don't know. but it at least gives Severa a Rally that gives Defense and Speed or Move, so that's at least pretty sweet utility. I think another thing that has to be considered is recruitment order. For example: Yarne would like to be in sooner the better because he's awesome, but you can easily wait till late to recruit him because he's just that good and his chapter is that annoying. Kjelle's chapter is the easiest, so you could probably recruit her ASAP, along with Morgan, etc. My issue with best possible outcome is mainly having to do with the fact that more often than not, that happpens to be the Avatar, and assuming the Avatar is the parent all the time is obviously unrealistic. Edited March 23, 2013 by Levant Fortner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 It's best if you assume the parent is being used when rating the kids, it's just common sense. You don't really need to assume reclassing or specific parents when rating the kids either I don't think, because the children still have some unique characteristics and trends. Lucina and Morgan are obviously the best but I think you might be able to rate the other kids in comparison to each other with no father assumed. Yarne is probably among the best of the children. His mother is so good statistically that she'll pass down good bases for him and he also has some ridiculous growths too. At worst, he's a decent combat unit but at his best, he's pretty comparable to the rest of your team without much effort. Cynthia and Gerome are probably among the better children too. Unlike Yarne, they're less guaranteed to be good fighters but they do have unique utility compared to the others. Cynthia for example can immediately promote to Falcoknight for high move + rescue while still being a great pair up partner. Gerome can get Carrier easily through inheritance and serve as a good farrier and supporter when you promote him (Wyvern Lord is a great choice on him), so no matter what you'll probably find a use for him. Nah, Severa, and Inigo are all basic combat units. Of the three, Inigo is probably the worst. He doesn't get good skills from Olivia and Olivia's bases are pretty bad and she doesn't level that quickly from what I've heard, so his bases aren't going to be good. He also comes really late too since his paralogue is one of the most difficult. Nah has that same issue too, although she can be a good tank and has 1-2 range, so she can be decent I suppose. I'm not sure how Severa stacks up compared to Nah. I guess it depends on what skills she gets and whether or not her inheriting Galeforce in a reasonable time frame is all that feasible. Laurent can also perform a support role like Cynthia and Gerome as a Rescue bot and staff user should he promote immediately. Brady is a joke but everyone knows that. I don't know how good Noire is, she's probably in the same boat Severa and Nah are, but she's an archer which really sucks in this game apparently. So you can basically get something like: Morgan>Lucina>Yarne>Cynthia>Gerome>Laurent>Nah>Severa>Noire>Inigo>Brady? I don't know really. This is pretty much theorycraft so feel free to shoot down anything I said if its incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) My issue with best possible outcome is mainly having to do with the fact that more often than not, that happpens to be the Avatar, and assuming the Avatar is the parent all the time is obviously unrealistic. Then we consider the opposite: who is best for Avatar. Once that's figured out, Avatar becomes eliminated as a possibility for others so we can have an actual conversation rather than assume that Avatar is an omnisexual polygamous hermaphrodite. Edited March 23, 2013 by grandjackal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khan of Blades Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 [...] rather than assume that Avatar is an omnisexual polygamous hermaphrodite. ...But s/he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Then we consider the opposite: who is best for Avatar. I have little doubt that the answer to this is Chrom. Only Sully could possibly compete in my mind. Anyone else isn't good enough or comes too late. Like, Panne would be a good candidate, but Avatar could be married to Chrom by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 On the whole OliviaxChrom thing, you actually only need one support point, granted none of the other pairs have any. This actually isn't that hard to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) On the whole OliviaxChrom thing, you actually only need one support point, granted none of the other pairs have any. This actually isn't that hard to do. Uhhh, wasn't that debunked? I remember someone saying that one support point wasn't enough... Edited March 23, 2013 by Levant Fortner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Uhhh, wasn't that debunked? I remember someone saying that one support point wasn't enough... I never saw that. You can just pair up Olivia with Chrom. He's strong enough to warrant it, he doesn't need pair up bonuses by chapter 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Uhhh, wasn't that debunked? I remember someone saying that one support point wasn't enough... It was. I don't remember who, but someone had a Chrom with multiple support points with Maribelle but not enough for a C and Chrom still married Maiden. He did some testing on it for the eventual results, so it's not like he just remembered wrong. Technically, the idea of getting enough for a C rank is still a guess, but it definitely won't work with just one support point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 It was. I don't remember who, but someone had a Chrom with multiple support points with Maribelle but not enough for a C and Chrom still married Maiden. He did some testing on it for the eventual results, so it's not like he just remembered wrong. Technically, the idea of getting enough for a C rank is still a guess, but it definitely won't work with just one support point. Oh, I'm sorry I was misinformed. But it's still easy because chrom has lighting fast supports with both Olivia and Sumia. PEMN, but it seems like some characters have higher growths for supports than others. I had Sumia paired with chrom and they entered like three battles and were ready to get a c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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