I finally used Levn!Arthur

[Renall]

Hack Levin/Lewyn to be Deirdre's husband.

Now Seliph truly is the Alpha and Omega.

Also he doesn't have Pursuit anymore. Owned.

[Rapier]

In my opinion, Sety will be an amazing unit no matter who you paired his parents with. Arthur however will be an average unit if paired with parents that are not Lex and Tiltyu and Levin and Tiltyu. So I'd rather have two awesome units than one god-tier unit and a meh unit. Sety doesn't quite need Holsety, but Arthur surely appreciates it... And he'll be helping right from the start, since he comes earlier than Sety. If the problem turns out to be money, just let him visit the villages on Chapter 6.

Of course, one could argue that only Celice matters and the others are just a bunch of bench-warmers. Kay then.

[RJWalker]

I do like Lewyn as Ced's father more because I'm a sucker for CANON but pairing Lewyn with Tiltyu will give you 2 more god units instead of just 1 more if you pair him with Fury because Ced is always god regardless of who his father is but Arthur will only be decent otherwise.

[The Fir Coat]

Claude!Sety is almost as powerful as Levin!Sety in terms of enemies he can kill, and he can use Fortify when he can't keep up.

Non-Levin!Arthur is stuck with Wind and (possibly) Elfire and isn't really worth even deploying after chapter 7.

Either one dominates with Levin as their father.

[bottlegnomes]

Azel!Arthur is actually very good. He's got high magic, something no other Arthur can really say, and pursuit in addition to the stuff he usually has.

[Chiki]

Azel!Arthur is actually very good. He's got high magic, something no other Arthur can really say, and pursuit in addition to the stuff he usually has.

But somewhat subpar compared to Lex!Arthur.

[CT075]

i'm pretty sure most arthurs (i would argue that this figure includes levin!arthur but that's partially just me) are inferior to lex!arthur

[Chiki]

i'm pretty sure most arthurs (i would argue that this figure includes levin!arthur but that's partially just me) are inferior to lex!arthur

I don't see how you could argue that unless you argued Levin would otherwise pair up with Fury.

[CT075]

you're probably right

[bottlegnomes]

But somewhat subpar compared to Lex!Arthur.

While I can't really say, I'm willing to believe that. But it doesn't change that Azel!Arthur is better than average overall.

[Narga_Rocks]

Doesn't Lex!Arthur need a magic ring and Thoron to OHKO with wrath on most enemies later on? With Lex as a father, you pretty much have to choose between Arthur and his sister. Of course, most people don't care about Tinny so maybe a non-issue?

[CT075]

yeah in hindsight levin!arthur is solidly better on about every count but i will personally always use lex!arthur <3

[Rapier]

Lex!Arthur is actually nice because both children can promote quickly with Elite. I doubt they'll be able to face other units with low HP though, so Wrath is kind of unpractical unless you can OHKO and other units can protect Arthur/Tinny.

[Chiki]

I remember Mekkah arguing it was impractical years back. Give Arthur or Tinny a Magic Ring, Thoron and get him down to 1 HP by the Arena, and that's pretty reliable and very practical.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Olwen

[The Fir Coat]

Azel!Arthur is actually very good. He's got high magic, something no other Arthur can really say, and pursuit in addition to the stuff he usually has.

He's also stuck with crappy weapons and has terrible move for a lot longer because he struggles to get EXP. He'll only have about 3 more Magic than Levin or Claude!Arthur at level 30, and this is assuming you were able to get Azel to 30.

Once you get him to promotion he'll be a good unit, but getting him there is extremely painful since he isn't taking enemy phase hits and he is struggling to get kills for pretty much the entire second gen. Pretty much everyone else in the generation has an easier time getting EXP aside from non-Holyn Pattys and gimped Lesters (and Tinny I guess).

Lex!Arthur does benefit from some good skills, but while his gimmick has around 78 Attack after promotion with Thoron, before Elthunder and promotion happen it is only managing 42 attack and he still has WTD against the dark mages in chapter 7.

[MacLovin]

Lex seems to be a decent dad for every pairing. Hell, I use Lex/Lachesis alot and give Delmud the pursuit ring. Lex/Fury provides a fast growing Fee and tanky Sety with Ambush.

Lex/Artur seems to require the magic ring to function though.

[bottlegnomes]

He's also stuck with crappy weapons and has terrible move for a lot longer because he struggles to get EXP. He'll only have about 3 more Magic than Levin or Claude!Arthur at level 30, and this is assuming you were able to get Azel to 30.

Once you get him to promotion he'll be a good unit, but getting him there is extremely painful since he isn't taking enemy phase hits and he is struggling to get kills for pretty much the entire second gen. Pretty much everyone else in the generation has an easier time getting EXP aside from non-Holyn Pattys and gimped Lesters (and Tinny I guess).

Lex!Arthur does benefit from some good skills, but while his gimmick has around 78 Attack after promotion with Thoron, before Elthunder and promotion happen it is only managing 42 attack and he still has WTD against the dark mages in chapter 7.

I never had any trouble getting him to grow, but as we all know PEMN, so who knows (by which I mean others probably do, just not me). Plus it's been forever since I played FE4.

Edited April 9, 2013 by bottlegnomes

[Mekkah]

Pre-promotion, Lex!Arthur has like 8-11 Mag, and he can only use C-level spells until you get Tinny. He can have the Magic Ring.

So for Ch6 and Ch7, he has like 22 Atk (10+5+7), or 44 with Wrath. It seems to me that he's borderline or just a little short of OHKOing here.

For example:

Armour lv 10 (steel lance): 50 hp, 28 atk, 96 hit, -12 avo, 13 def, 1 res

- Can't OHKO.

Thunder mage lv 10 (thunder): 36 hp, 18 atk, 114 hit, 4 avo, 2 def, 8 res

- Exactly enough to OHKO, but for example if he hasn't proc'd Mag twice, or his base Mag is lower (for example because Tiltyu didn't make it to L30), then he doesn't OHKO.

He can get the Darna Castle dudes, but since he's going to recruit Tinny he's prolly not gonna be there.

Then in Ch8 he gets Elthunder, so like 29 Atk (10+5+14), 58 with Wrath.

Armor lv 18 (steel lance or steel bow): 58 hp, 30 atk, 100 hit, -8 avo, 15 def, 1 res

- 1 short of OHKO

Thunder mage lv 18 (elthunder): 44 hp, 26 atk, 108 hit, 8 avo, 2 def, 10 res

- OHKO

At Ch9 he promotes and gets Tron, so like 39 Atk, which after Wrath makes 78, so that OHKOs pretty much anything that's not a superboss.

So on the whole, I'm not too convinced on this pairing to get OHKOs reliably enough to negate the disadvantages. Especially when you throw things like Brave weapons, long-range things (ballista/bolting/etc) and bosses with too much HP/Res to OHKO in the mix. Not being able to OHKO is fine for most dudes, but for Arthur it can mean instant death. Not too fond of that.

[Chiki]

If we're debating in an efficiency context, (I'll call it pseudo-efficiency since it isn't true efficiency), neither Levin!Arthur nor Lex!Arthur will be seeing much combat as they have low move. It isn't worth talking about either of them before promotion. Note that Lex!Arthur will likely be promoting earlier than Levin!Arthur, thanks to Elite, as the main source of exp both of them have is through the Arena. Lex!Arthur therefore has the opportunity to get more action than Levin!Arthur.

If you're worried about long-range attacks, then heal Arthur enough so that he can take a hit but still be in Wrath range. Bosses are food for Leg Ring Celice with a 50-100 kill Silver Sword, not Arthur. Nor is Levin!Arthur going to kill bosses. Arthur is just useful to obliterate common enemies. Problem solved. If one has half a brain, they should be able to use him effectively.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Olwen

[CT075]

i think part of the argument is that in an efficiency context it's better to have lex up as close to sigurd as possible (since his combat isn't exactly *bad* although it isn't stellar without hero axe) rather than in the back with tiltyu

i think i always ended up doing azeltiltyu or levintiltyu on my efficiency runs though so idk

[Chiki]

i think part of the argument is that in an efficiency context it's better to have lex up as close to sigurd as possible (since his combat isn't exactly *bad* although it isn't stellar without hero axe) rather than in the back with tiltyu

i think i always ended up doing azeltiltyu or levintiltyu on my efficiency runs though so idk

I don't see the necessity. Lex has pretty horrible combat; no Pursuit and awful accuracy. Sigurd with Leg Ring will far outpace him regardless.

Even if Lex does save a couple turns, it seems a bit weird to be so anal about turns when Levin!Tiltyu itself costs plenty, and does not save turns at all. I think in this context we've already admitted that we aren't going for maximum efficiency.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Olwen

[CT075]

i remember it being useful to have silver axe lex mopping up whatever sigurd didn't finish (it was passable, nothing worth tying up over but definitely workable)

in an actual full ltc run arthur doesn't exist period (and even if he did holsety wouldn't) so yeah allowances are being made here

Edited April 9, 2013 by CT075

[Chiki]

Why bother mopping up what Sigurd didn't finish, though? Does that make the chapter quicker?

[CT075]

actually there were times when it helped reliability if not flat turn saving (this was a while ago so the specifics are edgy)

i remember in c4 in particular there were times when a leftover pegasus knight or mage or whatever would end up compromising reliability (by chipping sigurd at 50% hit or whatever for like 15 health)

[Chiki]

I don't see why that's unique to Lex, though. Surely Fury or Beowulf can do the same?