Sunwoo Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 My current Awakening file has a female MU, and I got curious about something: I know the site says that Sumia is top priority for Chrom in the case of equal supports, so I decided to test this. I grinded all of Chrom's possible wives so that they had enough support points to unlock a C support, but I didn't activate any of them. If support points do indeed cap at a certain point and don't increase if I don't activate a support, then everyone was at equal support levels. I then entered chapter 11, where I stuck Olivia with Chrom the entire chapter and had Chrom destroy everything. Once the chapter was done, I waited to see who Chrom would marry. Lo and behold, it's OLIVIA. Does this mean that the priority on the "supports and marriage" page is wrong -- which has the priority as Sumia > Maribelle > Sully > Olivia > feMU? I didn't test it yet to see if Sumia is indeed higher than the other three, but if I'm understanding how the supports work and if I didn't screw up anything, then Sumia should have taken precedent over Olivia. And yet, Chrom married Olivia instead of Sumia despite the two theoretically having equal support points. For ease of testing, I did grind Sumia, Sully, and feMU so that they had enough points to unlock an S support with another guy, but I didn't activate those supports. Chrom had no supports, but enough support points to unlock a C with his possible wives then proceeded to destroy half the chapter with Olivia. Sumia, Sully, and feMU had built up supports C-A with Gaius, Stahl, and Frederick with enough points for an S but none of them were married. In the end of the chapter, Chrom married Olivia and not Sumia. Is this old news or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Hmm... say, did you stopped grinding for support points as soon the C Support became available or did you grind some more after that? I can't say I know of the Support Points gain system, but it may be possible you didn't hit the cap (if there is any) with the other girls, and let Olivia gain more than them? Actually, just what is known of the Support Points system...? It may help somewhat or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 It would make sense in one way, since Olivia is already the toughest to get Chrom married to despite the game obviously shipping Sumia the most. The only other thing I can think of is that the game does actually have some way of recording support points further than a "cap" to get to the next level before that level is activated, but that would seem...weird. Maybe try grinding out Sully, Maribelle, and Avatar in Ch 11 with Chrom and see if any of them marry him over Sumia, too. And Sumia as well, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 Hmm... say, did you stopped grinding for support points as soon the C Support became available or did you grind some more after that? I can't say I know of the Support Points gain system, but it may be possible you didn't hit the cap (if there is any) with the other girls, and let Olivia gain more than them? Actually, just what is known of the Support Points system...? It may help somewhat or so. Let's see ... my intent for this playthrough was to marry Maribelle to Chrom after I finish testing (and therefore forgot to grind her supports with another guy, whoops), so I'm pretty sure Maribelle at the very least has been glued to Chrom since she showed up, well after she unlocked her C support with him. Sumia, Sully, and feMU didn't really interact with Chrom after I unlocked the C. I don't know how the support points system works, honestly, but I'm assuming it works like it does in the other games. To take FE7 for example, I can put Lyn next to Rath for as long as I want, but if I don't activate their C support first then all those extra turns that could have gone towards a B had I activated the C first wouldn't count for anything at all. I'm assuming FE13 supports work the same way, although I cannot say for certain. If I didn't screw up and if my assumptions about the support system are correct, then Olivia should have priority over Sumia in marriage. I know that Sumia has priority after Olivia if I had Chrom avoid Olivia. Much to my surprise, SULLY is after Sumia and not Maribelle. I married Sumia to Gaius so that Chrom wouldn't auto-marry her. Avoided Olivia again. Sully, feMU, and Maribelle all had equal supports with Chrom. Sully pops up at the end of the map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrahunter Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Could is possibly be that Olivia is also the exception to the support rule? Seeing as how its impossible for her to obtain any rank of support with Chrom before he is married mayhaps it is intended for her to be allowed to gain support points past Cap during that chapter to make up for this? I must say it would be hilarious if Olivia had highest priority for Chrom, would certainly make one wonder why all the Sumia shipping and acknowledge that Olivia is the best waifu for Chrom other then FeMU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Considering the circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised if it's to make pairing Chrom with Olivia easier. Although, to be honest, the only way to be sure about this if this is done with all of them having the same support points. Probably better if it's before any of them have the C Support available, in order to have better results knowing they haven't reached a "cap". As in, collecting even just 1 point at least. Edited April 8, 2013 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 Unfortunately, I have no idea how the support points work or anything like that, all I can say for sure is what happened as a result each time I played the game under specific conditions. So, to sum up everything I did: 1. I had Sumia, Sully, Maribelle, and female Avatar gain enough support points to unlock a C support with Chrom, but did not activate any of them. 2. Chrom had no supports activated. Not even with guys. 3. Sumia, Sully, and female Avatar had activated supports C-A with other guys for ease of testing. They had S supports unlocked but not activated. Maribelle only had a C support with Chrom unlocked because I forgot about her. 4. I paired Olivia with Chrom in chapter 11 and had Chrom clear approximately half the map to ensure he and Olivia gained enough support points. 5. I am playing on normal casual mode. 6. After each girl married Chrom at the end of chapter 11, I restarted the chapter. I then activated her S support with one of the other guys (or in the case of Olivia just had her avoid Chrom) before starting so that I could determine which girl took priority afterwards. According to my methodology, the priority is Olivia > Sumia > Sully > Maribelle > female Avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) I suppose it would be a little tedious and time-consuming, even if it would be the best way to figure things out. After all, if all have 0 points, then Villager Girl has the highest priority, as soon as they all tie with at least 1, she no longer has any chances. It's possible there are other triggers like that, but we'd have to deal with exact values to find out. Since for example, you may unlock a support after a chapter/skirmish, but surely you gathered more than 1 point in there, therefore you can't tell when exactly it unlocked, right? So long it's like that we're dealing with only approximates and we're not sure if they really have the same amount of points, and that's even still not considering if all need the same amount of points to unlock the support so even if you stop after they unlock... So yeah... perhaps it may just complicate things... Edited April 8, 2013 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Unfortunately, I don't have the time to figure all that out at this very moment. And you're right that we don't know how the support points work and whatnot. Maybe when I have more time to test stuff in Awakening I'll count the number of battles it takes each pair to activate supports to see if they are the same. EDIT: Although it still doesn't explain how Maribelle, who spent the longest time glued to Chrom, was the second lowest for him in priority in my file. Edited April 8, 2013 by Sangyul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Whelp, I'm gonna go buy a bunch of bond seeds from Streetpass and actually have a visual indication (i.e. The bond seeds are greyed out) to see when support points have capped, and points are kept track of. As in I'm gonna go Normal Casual and get to Chapter 11 without any support points (i.e. Village Girl marriage if I don't stick Chrom to anyone) and then only use one bond seed without Chrom getting attacked or attacking in order to get a fixed amount of points. It might be that Chrom's "before C support" with Olivia may be hard coded to have a point higher than everyone else's "before C Support" or whatever. I'm gonna do this for both versions of the game, just because I'm gonna be thorough like that. Edited April 8, 2013 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Okay i hope this can help: What i done regarding the Pairs Maribelle - Killed in Chapter 5, never deployed again until chapter 11 Sumia - Killed in Chapter 3, never deployed again until chapter 11 Olivia - Deployed in chapter 11(her joining chap) FeMU - Never used beyond chapter 1, 2, and 11 Okay i forgot Sully I soloed all the chapter with Chrom with no pair up For: Maribelle - Rescued Chrom. Thats it Olivia - Danced Chrom once Sumia - Paired with FeMU to stand adjacent to Chrom before Chrom killed the last Mage opponent in the map, assuming both get Support points this way FeMU - read Sumia Result - Sumia So, yeah Edited April 8, 2013 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Uhh... well, getting the units killed in Casual or Classic does not affect anything regarding Chrom's pairings at the end of Chapter 11. I had Sumia get killed in Classic, but Chrom still married her instead of Olivia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Im just putting all the details just in case..... I read somewhere(in gfaqs) that getting killed affect your support points, which is why i listed that they got killed in that chapter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocturnal YL Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 @JSND This could mean either they get different support points depending on the pairing (that Sumia gets more support points than the rest), or battling would give more support points than utilities (dancing, healing...). This could also mean the game is screwing with us and Sumia still has the highest priority, parhaps making exception for Olivia on the "cap" thing. Also, according to your description, your MU did not gain any support points with Chrom. Only Sumia did. One way to better test this is with the seeds. For all possible pairs, use one seed and participate in no battles or healing, to eliminate possible per-unit differences (though I don't think they exist in this game). I think one seed is enough to get a pair to C, so if Olivia really doesn't have a cap, then my method is still flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 "If support points do indeed cap at a certain point and don't increase if I don't activate a support, then everyone was at equal support levels" I apologize if this feels like a nitpicking or something With the same data, i tried to do this: Sully - Paired with Chrom Fight one Skirmish - C Unlocked Fight one more Skirmish Fight Leonardo Spotpass Twice Sumia - Paired with Chrom at chapter 11 Solo all but 3 enemies, with only one wave of reinforcement Result is still Sumia. So, theres technically a cap with the support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Sumia - One Leonardo Olivia - Solo chapter 11 Olivia Okay, so MAYBE Sumia has the highest priority if everyone is equal, but at a condition where she and Olivia is capped, Olivia get the priority Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocturnal YL Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Well, so the cap thing is made clear. Variable cap comes to mind, though I don't think that's the case. I tried to look into other sites to see if they have anything better to say on the matter. 2ch wiki doesn't seem to even list any ordering, and ge-ota heya has wrong information. Edited April 8, 2013 by nocturnal YL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashiane Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Well, also remember that due to the events in Chapter 3, Sumia already starts out with a few support points with Chrom, so at the beginning (unless he already has a C support with Sully and/or Fem!Avatar) Sumia gets priority. I think that's the reason Sumia's stated to have the highest priority and also the reason why most people recommend marrying Sumia off - to either Gaius, Frederick or Male!Avatar, with Frederick being your best choice as without support grinding you can usually get them married by Chapter 8 - or killing her. Leaving her single - or alive - is risky if you want Olivia. EDIT: The Fire Emblem wikia has a list, but it goes like this: Sumia > Maribelle > Sully > Olivia > Fem!Avatar. Edited April 8, 2013 by Vashiane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 "Well, so the cap thing is made clear. Variable cap comes to mind, though I don't think that's the case." I actually think its a variable cap Heres with same data as above Originally, the purpose of this testing was to test if the ammount of enemies in Chapter 11 is just that huge Sumia - 2 Leonardo, 1 Brom, 1 Skirmish, 1 Nephenee Olivia - Solo chapter 11 Olivia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Interesting. This might mean my biggest complaint about marrying Chrom to Olivia might have been overblown... Well, also remember that due to the events in Chapter 3, Sumia already starts out with a few support points with Chrom, so at the beginning (unless he already has a C support with Sully and/or Fem!Avatar) Sumia gets priority. I think that's the reason Sumia's stated to have the highest priority and also the reason why most people recommend marrying Sumia off - to either Gaius, Frederick or Male!Avatar, with Frederick being your best choice as without support grinding you can usually get them married by Chapter 8 - or killing her. Leaving her single - or alive - is risky if you want Olivia. EDIT: The Fire Emblem wikia has a list, but it goes like this: Sumia > Maribelle > Sully > Olivia > Fem!Avatar. Bold: That won't work... Edited April 8, 2013 by Levant Fortner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Well, also remember that due to the events in Chapter 3, Sumia already starts out with a few support points with Chrom Honestly, until we can view the memory locations in the 3DS, we really don't know. The fact that he can marry the village girl kills that assumption when he has zero support points with all the girls. Despite that you can assume that simply because of the CG movie "Lovebirds" in Chapter 3 and how it would make sense... and supports have been with variable starting points since FE6.... Because of the existence of the Generic Village girl, we cannot assume that Sumia gets starting support points with Chrom. Edited April 8, 2013 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashiane Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Honestly, until we can view the memory locations in the 3DS, we really don't know. The fact that he can marry the village girl kills that assumption when he has zero support points with all the girls. Despite that you can assume that simply because of the CG movie "Lovebirds" in Chapter 3 and how it would make sense... and supports have been with variable starting points since FE6.... Because of the existence of the Generic Village girl, we cannot assume that Sumia gets starting support points with Chrom. Oh yeah. Forgot all about her, to be honest. But I've read several guides stating that for the best chance to marry Olivia you HAD to marry off or kill Sumia because she could somehow override the support points you get with Olivia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Technically thats already proven wrong now..... Science: One Several Guides: Zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashiane Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Technically thats already proven wrong now..... Science: One Several Guides: Zero [/shrugs] I probably should have tested it myself before I started posting random information, I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 kill Sumia I know you're saying that a guide said that so I'm not directly stating it at you, but that doesn't work even on Classic Mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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