The First Exalt and Grima

[Elinor Cross]

The more I read dialogue concerning the First Exalt and about Grima it is starting to make me really wonder if Grima actually STARTED as 'Grima'.

Think about how stories change, how people are reffered to change over the years to get my logic. The game makes a lot of refferances to the First Exalt and in some cases it is made rather obvious the seem to be talking about Marth (Cordelia and Donnel's supports refferance the First Exalt's wife, with the heavily implications that it is Caeda they are talking about).

Which makes me wonder about Grima more and more.

What if Grima wasnt originally called that? What if he started off as a different dragon, like say.... Madeus? (that was the dragon from fe12 right?).

It is entirely possible, and would actually explain a lot of Grima and keep it rather in line with Awakening being a sequal to fe11&12.

What are your guy's thoughts on this?

[Samias]

Marth is known as the Hero-King and is explicitly stated to be someone who is NOT the first Exalt. They always talk about Marth and the first Exalt as two different people. Grima's origins are also unknown, except that he is a descendant of the earth dragons.

[Acacia Sgt]

Indeed, Marth and the First Exalt are at least separated by around a thousand years, dates are brought up about this in-game.

[Agro]

grima could easily be medeus but the first exalt is most certainly not marth

[Elinor Cross]

true but... maybe its the way the translation was handled? It seemed like (at least to me) that there were a lot of hints towards the first Exalt being Marth....

[Samias]

There are a lot of similarities in the First Exalt's story and Marth's story, but Marth never founded Iris/Ylisse in either version of the game, which is what the First Exalt did. Any time Marth comes up, they address him by the Hero King title, and yet the First Exalt is never given a name. "Marth" never pretends the disguise is that of the Exalt either. Timeline-wise the Archanea games are established as taking place about 1000 years beforehand, which was basically the first thing we ever knew about Awakening from the press releases and background information.

Edit: Looking for more information, there is one interesting tidbit about Naga on the North American website which somewhat explains the inconsistency between the pronouns used for Naga.

"Legends say that Naga sometimes appears as a man or woman."

So mystery of Naga's genderflopping solved, I guess?

Edited April 9, 2013 by Samias

[Naui]

Most of the countries of the Awakening were founded, according to Basilio, during a period known as the "Schism." This event isn't thoroughly explained but this would be roughly the same time as the First Exalt. Grima is at least confirmed to be a descendant of Earth Dragons like Medeus, but where exactly his origins lie is not explained well enough as well.

[Airship Canon]

(Cordelia and Donnel's supports refferance the First Exalt's wife, with the heavily implications that it is Caeda they are talking about).

To be fair, the only implication that it's Caeda is that she has the Win Spear... err Wing Spear rather, as she was a terror to Armor Knights-- of course she could've just had Luna. Otherwise, there's just as much connection between First Exalt's wife and Caeda as there is between Sumia and Caeda.

[LycopolisKing]

While I pretty sure Grima is actually Medeus ( All that "Evil in men's hearts" will revive him stuff, and would ya look at that! All that evil stored up in the Avatar ) the first Exalt isn't Marth - just some nameless clone of him, essentially.

[Lhyonnaes]

Marth lived around 2000 years before Awakening, and the First Exalt founded Ylisse 1000 years before Awakening (One gets the vague sense that Marth's lineage continued to rule the continent until Grima's cataclysmic arrival, and that after Grima's defeat Archanea was carved up into Ferox, Plegia, and Ylisse, as central government was no longer feasible in the devastated continent. As far as I know, though, this is never confirmed, but seems to be the most likely outcome with the hints we are given). He does seem a lot like Marth, but that's Fire Emblem for you.

As far as Grima, I think the strongest theory (I believe it originated on these forums a month or a month and a half ago) is that he's essentially all the Earth Dragons sealed in the Dragon's Altar, merged into one being over a thousand years of all being stuck in one incorporeal location. This explains why no Earth Dragons are encountered or mentioned in Awakening despite the Dragon's Altar playing a major part in the story, why Grima is a ginormous eldritch abomination dragon thing, and why a previously unmentioned dragon became a being of such immense power (also I believe that in the Knights of Iris book, it states that Grima is in some way connected to the Earth Dragons, though I'm unsure as to the specifics, as this is just hearsay on my part and I don't speak/read Japanese).

In terms of power and scale, Grima simply can't be Medeus or Loptous or any other Earth Dragon. But it makes a lot of sense for him to be all of them, at once.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

true but... maybe its the way the translation was handled? It seemed like (at least to me) that there were a lot of hints towards the first Exalt being Marth....

Considering people figured out First Exalt=/=Marth before english release, I doubt it.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Marth is like...... 2000 years before Chrom

And 1000 years after what might actually be Sigurd

[VincentASM]

Edit: Looking for more information, there is one interesting tidbit about Naga on the North American website which somewhat explains the inconsistency between the pronouns used for Naga.

"Legends say that Naga sometimes appears as a man or woman."

So mystery of Naga's genderflopping solved, I guess?

The localisation team added that comment.

The original just said people weren't sure whether Naga was a man or woman.

Presumably they wanted to address the fact Naga was called a "he" in the English version of Shadow Dragon. In the Japanese version, Naga is never referred with a gender-specific pronoun (which I believe is a general occurrence, especially when referring to people you've never met).

[LeThiAnh]

I see this similar to the Zelda series. Specifically towards Skyward Sword where Demise is almost like Medeus and Ganondorf to Grima. Just how like Ganondorf isn't exactly Demise, Grima and Medeus may not be the same person.

/Zelda logic

[SPSEliwoodGabriel]

Also, Tiki mentions to be 3000 years old when she gets 0-1 stats up in both Japanese and English, so yeah, Marth is 2000 years before Chrom's time, and the first Exalt was 1000 years before and Marth's descendant.

[VincentASM]

Actually, does the game explicitly state that the first Exalt is Marth's descendant?

[Silver Lightning]

Also, Tiki mentions to be 3000 years old when she gets 0-1 stats up in both Japanese and English, so yeah, Marth is 2000 years before Chrom's time, and the first Exalt was 1000 years before and Marth's descendant.

Actually, at least in the english version, all she says when she caps stats is "There is not much left I can learn in this century", not necessarily that she's 3000, though she could have said that somewhere else.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Marth is like...... 2000 years before Chrom

And 1000 years after what might actually be Sigurd

No, 1000 years before then was Anri, I think?

(IIRC, Jugdral is further back than 1000 years anyway.)

[Just call me AL]

Actually, does the game explicitly state that the first Exalt is Marth's descendant?

I don't recall any instance of such. But considering what weapon he used against Grima, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that he is.

[Book Bro]

^ Wouldn't it be implicit, considering Chrom, Lissa, and Emmeryn are both descendants of Marth and the first Exalt?

[LycopolisKing]

Of course the first Exalt is a descendant of Marth. He'd have to be if the Falchion was still being passed down and Chrom is a descendant of Marth.

[VincentASM]

Of course the first Exalt is a descendant of Marth. He'd have to be if the Falchion was still being passed down and Chrom is a descendant of Marth.

You can't say that with certainty though.

It's possible Naga granted the ability to the first Exalt and hence why Chrom has a Mark of the Exalt (while Marth does not).

My point is that it's dangerous to make assumptions, because the series is notorious for overthrowing them. For example:

Everyone thought Naga was a dude because "he's" a king and "he's" depicted as a male warrior.

[shadykid]

^ Wouldn't it be implicit, considering Chrom, Lissa, and Emmeryn are both descendants of Marth and the first Exalt?

not necessarily, the first Exalt could have married in for all we now

however, given that he wields the Falchion, he probably is

[Lhyonnaes]

No, 1000 years before then was Anri, I think?

(IIRC, Jugdral is further back than 1000 years anyway.)

Anri vanquished Medeus and founded Altea only around 100 years before Marth's games. He's Marth's great-grandfather's brother.

Given that the Earth Dragon / Divine Dragon war ended around 1100 years before Marth was born, and taking into account that Galle's pact with Loptous probably has to take place at some point during the war, it comes out that the events of FE4 and FE5 are more or less 1000 years before FE1, give or take a century or so.

I don't think the game ever explicitly stated that the first Exalt was descended from Marth, no. But he did possess the Falchion and the Fire Emblem and came to rule over what was once Archanea, so I think it's a reasonable assumption to make. I think it's also implied that he had the Falchion before performing the Awakening, and like Chrom got it upgraded to the Exalted Falchion, but again, we don't know for sure. However, until more information surfaces that provides an argument that the first exalt is not Marth's descendant, I will assume that he is.

[MasterJP28]

So Grima more or less = Madeus. If that's true and Marth isn't the first Exalt, wouldn't the first Exalt be Anri?

I don't know anything so don't quote me in this since in 100% sure I'm wrong. But that is interesting who is the first Exalt, how did Grima start, and how the f*** is Walhart a vegetarian?