How to break this game - Nihil build (96.41% invincibility)

[MAttSTER]

This is MAtt5TER of GameFAQs. I'd like to share with this board my theoretical most perfect set up. (And to help me make it perfect)

Repost from (see post #33 for latest build)

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/643003-fire-emblem-awakening/66128166

Nihil is a reoccuring Skill in previous Fire Emblem games that kept other Skills from activating. This game is heavily dependent upon Skills, so Nihil would have been too broken here. But wait! Dual Strikes don't trigger defensive activation Skills, and Vantage preempts offensive activation Skills! Nihil indirectly exists in this game!

The idea behind this set up is to prevent enemies from attacking or activating Skills. The lead will have low Magic stat and deal 0 damage with Celica's Gale. The 0 damage prevents Counter from having an effect, and there will be up to 4x Dual Strikes from the Pair Up partner. If the Dual Strikes can deal the full 80 or 99 damage, then the enemy does not even get a chance to attack. Vantage keeps the pair from being touched at all!

Notable Skills this build bypasses:

Counter, Hawkeye, Lethality, Pavise+, Aegis+, Luna+

RECIPE

-Skill Setups-

Lead - Lucina [Dark Flier]

Vantage

Dual Strike+

Charm

Bowbreaker

Limit Breaker

(Celica's Gale)

Support - Morgan (M) [sorcerer]

Limit Breaker

Tomefaire

All Stats +2

Magic +2

Hit Rate +20

(Waste: forge +Lv5 MT, +Lv3 Hit)

-RallyBot-

Rally Spectrum

Rally Love

Rally Magic

Rally Skill

Rally Luck

Olivia [Dancer]

Special Dance

AnathemaBot [Manakete]

Anathema

(Dragonstone+)

-Breeding Route-

1. Avatar(F): +Mag/-Def

2. Chrom + Olivia --> Lucina (keep this family's Magic low!, keep Def/Res low enough to lose half HP in 1 hit!)

3. Miriel + Ricken --> Laurent + Avatar(F)

-Preq-

Kill off everyone unnecessary to maximize the chances of Morgan getting Magic barrack surge. >_>

~Directions~

1. Apply Rallies.

2. Have unpaired Lucina attack enemy and lose half HP.

3. Have Olivia use Special Dance on Morgan.

4. Move Morgan to Pair Up with Lucina

5. Place AnathemaBot next to Lucina

4. Watch massacre during Enemy Phase. The AnathemaBot will never be attacked because its Def/Res are higher than Lucina's

This setup is near-invincible and nearly guarantees one-round kill, even against Apotheosis (The Strongest One's Name) bosses. Without being touched.

-Calculations-

Morgan's Dual Strike rate

= ( Morgan's Skill + Lucina's Skill ) /4 + Support bonus + Skill bonus

= ((class base + Skill mod + Limit Breaker + All Stats+2 + Tiki's Tear + Rallies) + (class base + Skill mod + Limit Breaker + All Stats+2 + Rallies + Pair Up bonus))/4 + Support bonus + Skill bonus

= ( ( 38+4+10+2+2+10 ) + ( 41 + 3 + 10 + 2 + 10 + 5 ) ) /4 + 60 + 10

= 104%

Morgan's Attack

= class base + Mag mod + Limit Breaker + Tomefaire + All Stats+2 + Magic+2 + Tiki's Tear + Rallies + Special Dance + weapon MT + weapon rank bonus + barrack surge

= 44 + 10 + 10 + 5 + 2 + 2 + 2+ 10 + 2 + 15 + 2 + 4

= 108

Morgan's effective Hit

= (Skill*3+Luck)/2 + weapon Hit + weapon rank bonus + Hit Rate+20 + Charm + Anathema

= ((class base + Skill mod + Limit Breaker + All Stats+2 + Tiki's Tear + Rallies)*3 + (class base + Skill mod + Limit Breaker + All Stats+2 + Tiki's Tear + Rallies))/2 + weapon Hit + weapon rank bonus + Hit Rate+20 + Charm

= (( 38 + 2 +10 + 2 + 2 + 10 )*3 + ( 45 + 1 + 10 + 2 + 2 + 12 ))/2 + 60 + 5 + 20 + 5 + 10

= 232

= Magic Numbers =

- assumed Dragonskin mod = (damage - 3) / 2, round down

- Waste's low Hit is not a problem here because it can hit even the fastest enemy reliably: Anna w/ 70 Spd & 65 Luck

Anna's Avoid = (Speed *3+Luck)/2 = (70*3+65)/2 = 137

Morgan's hit rate = 232 - 137 = 95% (true hit: 99.55% )

Alt.3 Sorcerer's Avoid, highest Avoid in the game

= (Speed *3+Luck)/2 = (60*3+99)/2 = 139

Morgan's hit rate = 232 - 139 = 93% (true hit: 99.09% )

- damage to alt.3's Sorcerer, the highest Res w/ 80 HP

Total damage

=((attack - Res -3 )/2, round down) *4

= ((108 - 64 -3 ) /2, round down) *4

= 80 ***killed***

- damage to Anna, the highest Res w/ 99 HP

Total damage

= ((attack - Res -3 )/2, round down) *4

= ((108 - 55 -3) /2, round down) *4

= 100 ***killed***

As you can see, near-invincibility! According to the numbers, the Pair will kill everything before an attempt at an attack is made!

Help me out!

There are actually two ways to carry out this strategy, and they both have some sort of disadvantage.

1. Celica's Gale + Waste

This combo hits for enough damage against all bosses.

BUT Waste+Anathema has a 93% chance of hitting the fastest enemy (Alt.3 Sorcerer boss). Factoring True Hit*, this is a 99.09% chance. This is a 96.41% chance that all 4 Waste will hit (hence the topic title). This is high, but does not guarantee a solo of the entire Apotheosis/TSON maps.

2. Celica's Gale + Brave Axe

For this combo, damage is 1 Attack too low! Hit is fine, though:

There's the damage calculation for General Morgan's Brave Axe

= class cap + stat mod + Limit Breaker + Axefaire + All Stats+2 + Strength+2 + Tiki's Tear + Rallies + Special Dance + Brave Axe + rank bonus + barrack

= 50 + 11 + 10 + 5 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 10 + 2 + 17 + 1 + 4

= 116

against Alt.4's Berserker

damage dealt

= (Attack - Def ~ Dragonskin)*4

= ((116 - 64 -3)/2, round down)*4

= 96

You see. If Attack was even one higher, perfection would have been possible.

Your job: find a way to either

1. get Waste to hit more accurately.

or

2. Add 1 more Attack to Morgan.

Things that don't work: weapon triangle (axe vs. axe), Pair Up bonus (b/c Morgan is the supporter)

Yes, I know Long Bow and friends potentially ruin this. Hence, the Bowbreaker.

[Junkhead]

Too long, didn't read.

[Da Bear]

Too long, didn't read.

I did it's actually an extremely useful scheme... until you realize that you don't really need it...

[MAttSTER]

Too long, didn't read.

tl;dr ver: here's how to kill anything in 1 round and avoid Counter!

I did it's actually an extremely useful scheme... until you realize that you don't really need it...

You don't need it in the sense that there's more than one way to beat the hardest chapters. But this obsoletes everything in terms of potential. Every skill set and every team posted on this board just got outclassed because they don't ensure chapter clears as mathematically proven as this build.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Narga_Rocks

[Da Bear]

You don't need it in the sense that there's more than one way to beat the hardest chapters. But this obsoletes everything in terms of potential. Every skill set and every team posted on this board just got outclassed because they don't ensure chapter clears as mathematically proven as this build.

I know I'm just saying it's a bit much... still a great effort though!

[Raine]

problems with the concept:

1. No one is going to sacrifice their entire team of 40+ characters to keep only 5 characters for a few DLC maps.

2. a single character with all those rally skills is pointless imo-- give a character either rally heart or rally spectrum for the all stat bonus. They're only gonna be able to activate one of those bonuses at a time and you might as well raise all stats for a full round.

EDIT: If you /really/ want to use the anathema character, you might as well add Hex for the +15 to hit for the waste

Edited May 13, 2013 by Raine

[eclipse]

It works until you run out of Celica's Gale, which isn't the easiest to replace. Also, can you factor Tonics into this mix?

[Da Bear]

It works until you run out of Celica's Gale, which isn't the easiest to replace. Also, can you factor Tonics into this mix?

Celica sells Celica's Gale...

Also tonics and Tiki's tear don't stack.

Edited May 13, 2013 by bearclaw13

[Othin]

You don't need it in the sense that there's more than one way to beat the hardest chapters. But this obsoletes everything in terms of potential. Every skill set and every team posted on this board just got outclassed because they don't ensure chapter clears as mathematically proven as this build.

Or you just do something simple and renewable and win with it anyway and save yourself the trouble.

The level of preparation just isn't worth it at all.

[MAttSTER]

problems with the concept:

1. No one is going to sacrifice their entire team of 40+ characters to keep only 5 characters for a few DLC maps.

2. Magic +2 is a rather useless skill-- add dual guard + for at least SOME defense so Luci doesn't get her butt handed to her.

3. having a low magic score is really gonna save Luci from counters-- but this doesn't prevent other sources of damage from getting through. She won't have a high enough def or res to prevent herself from getting killed in some other way. Not to mention she doesn't have any sustainability skills.

1. Make 2 saves: one is your regular, the other to show show Anna who the real god is.

2-3) Magic +2 is absolutely necessary. Do you see how Morgan just barely kills Anna with Magic +2? Heck, if Anna was in the forest, this build wouldn't work!

I don't think you understand how this build works. Supporter Morgan attacks 4 times with Vantage and kills the enemy before the enemy attempts to attack. What good is Dual Guard+ here?

Edited May 13, 2013 by MAttSTER

[Anouleth]

I don't know the specifics of the map to know if you can do this turn 1, but if Morgan can attack something on turn 1 and lose HP from that, he can use Vengeance to deal more damage. Since he has more than 50 skill, his activation rate is 100%, and he doesn't use any other activation skills that conflict with it. You'd replace All Stats +2, and then replace Magic +2 with something that boosts his accuracy, like Lucky 7. That would increase his accuracy to 100%. You can also do this with the Brave Axe, I guess.

If Morgan can't reach an enemy on the first turn... I guess he can use a Naga's Tear, but that only gives +2 damage with 100% Vengeance activation. You'd need a Seraph's Robe and a Naga's Tear to be used on the first turn to get +5, then you could remove Strength +2 to make room for Vengeance. And Morgan can't use both items on the first turn. I don't think using them in preparations leaves you with reduced HP.

One last possibility for Morgan to artificially increase his HP total is for him to reclass. However, the biggest max HP bonus Morgan can acquire from class changing into Sorcerer is +5, which is no better than a Robe. He can get +7 from reclassing if he starts off as a Villager, but obviously that forces him to have Donnel or Donnel's son as his father. Berserker offers much more fruitful HP gains. By reclassing Morgan from Trickster to Berserker on turn 1 gives him +11HP, so Vengeance does an additional 5 damage. That would let him 4HKO.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Anouleth

[Hawk King]

This is so unpractical it shouldn't even be thought of. To need to rely on the barracks random chance of giving +4 MAG to a specific unit is kind of absurd.

Although to humor you, you could give lethality to the lead unit to slightly increase the chances of success. You still wont reach 100% reliability though.

[Elieson]

Or Rally bot/ Olivia gets attacked instead of Vantage Nihil god and within one turn you lose your precious dancer.

[Rehab]

Good on you trying to push the system to the limit, in any event. I enjoy seeing these kinds of topics/ideas for that alone.

[Othin]

Good on you trying to push the system to the limit, in any event. I enjoy seeing these kinds of topics/ideas for that alone.

It'd be enjoyable if the maker had the sense to present it as a fun idea rather than actually insisting that it's good.

[MAttSTER]

Vengeance

Vengeance can only be activated from the lead unit, but this necessarily risks Counter(+Miracle).

This is so unpractical it shouldn't even be thought of. To need to rely on the barracks random chance of giving +4 MAG to a specific unit is kind of absurd.

Although to humor you, you could give lethality to the lead unit to slightly increase the chances of success. You still wont reach 100% reliability though.

1. You only need barracks, rallies, Olivia, etc. for one map. For everything else, just pair up damaged Lucina and Morgan and you're done.

2. The only enemies that Morgan can't get 100% Hit against also have Dragonskin, so Lethality won't work.

Or Rally bot/ Olivia gets attacked instead of Vantage Nihil god and within one turn you lose your precious dancer.

The AI attacks the unit with the lowest Def/Res. Here, the only unit whose Def/Res aren't maxed is Lucina, so the AI will always attack Lucina. Alternatively, use Rescue chains. The only map where you need Olivia/RallyBot is TSON, and that map is big enough for to hide.

[Anouleth]

Vengeance can only be activated from the lead unit, but this necessarily risks Counter(+Miracle).

Really? I didn't know that.

[Tables]

I have a question about this setup. How does it get 4 attacks before the enemy gets one? As best I understand it, Celia's Gale + Vantage gives you two attacks before the opponent attacks, then you get your other two (assuming your fast enough to double, I presume you are).

[Da Bear]

I have a question about this setup. How does it get 4 attacks before the enemy gets one? As best I understand it, Celia's Gale + Vantage gives you two attacks before the opponent attacks, then you get your other two (assuming your fast enough to double, I presume you are).

Enemy attacks -> Vantage activates -> Lucina misses -> Morgan hits twice -.> Lucina misses -> Morgan hits twice.

[Tables]

Enemy attacks -> Vantage activates -> Lucina misses -> Morgan hits twice -.> Lucina misses -> Morgan hits twice.

Ah, yes, it seems obvious in hindsight. Somehow it didn't click that Morgan's Celia's Gale strikes twice as well.

[Deshiva]

Personally i think if you do all this for a setup like this you could also have a morgan with aversa, then have him as sage with shadowgift. Don't see much reason to be sorceror if he is supporting, sage gets better mag cap. And with that you could put anathema on morgan too, iirc area skills do work from support position but correct me otherwhise.

"Edit"

Nevermind, just checked who you married for morgan, mutant offsprings XD

Edited May 13, 2013 by Deshiva

[Othin]

There's no way you're holding off TSON enemies with this setup. You have no Armsthrift and you're attempting to solo with Brave weapons; you can't possibly hold enough tomes between two characters to kill them all.

[Zkirsche]

There's no way you're holding off TSON enemies with this setup. You have no Armsthrift and you're attempting to solo with Brave weapons; you can't possibly hold enough tomes between two characters to kill them all.

5 characters, if you include Rally bot/anathema bot/Olivia. You could also keep Chrom around and have him stand next to Lucina for convoy access, so long as they face < 40 enemies in a turn it's fine.

Can Demoiselle affect paired up units? Also, finding a way to get hex on Lucina would work. (Instead of bow breaker)

Edited May 13, 2013 by kirsche

[Jakkun]

Small issue, but what about Mire/Double Bow?

You can only attack/abuse Vantage with 1-2 Range, but those kinda ruin it.

I know Lucy has Bowbreaker, but Archers generally have good accuracy.

I might be worried about getting sniped.

[Meteor]

Small issue, but what about Mire/Double Bow?

You can only attack/abuse Vantage with 1-2 Range, but those kinda ruin it.

I know Lucy has Bowbreaker, but Archers generally have good accuracy.

I might be worried about getting sniped.

They could also conceivably have Hawkeye, which would really hurt Lucina. Maybe TSON simply doesn't have enemies with those weapons?