Lunatic+ playlog/guide/walkthrough - COMPLETED

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I've done it multiple times without Spotpass shops, although each of those runs took as much advantage of Anna shops as possible. Early game leans on Fred and Robin a lot because they're the only really durable ones with 2 range (Vaike technically fits this category to an extent too, I guess, but he's still significantly squishier due to his lack of Def).

The two F!Robin builds I've successfully run multiple times are:

Tact 20 ->Tact 10+ -> GM 10 -> Dark Flier 15 -> Hero 15 -> (Paladin 15) -> Dark Knight 15

Tact 20 -> Dark Mage 10+ -> Sorcerer 10 -> Dark Flier 15 -> Hero 15 -> Dark Knight 15

I stopped using Paladin in the first route because I realized Aegis was pretty unnecessary. These builds basically have Ignis/Vengeance to deal with early Counter (in addition to toting Thunder everywhere). Later on, Galeforce kiting in conjunction with Concoctions, then Elixirs means Robin should generally never die. I've even done this first route while banning out any life drain and regen (I typically ban out Nos in the first place, but this axed Sol too).

I did do one M!Robin run going for a crit build. I can't remember the exact details and it wasn't as fine-tuned, but I think I went something like:

Tact 20 -> Barb 10 -> Berserker 15 -> Hero 15 -> Warrior

I nicknamed him Casinovatar because he stacked crit skills (I regret not fitting Dark Mage in there somewhere) and carried around a bunch of Killer Axes, which meant he either died immediately or turned into a blender of doom. Coupled with Sol, his life tended to fluctuate like crazy during any given map (I may have also been playing him more recklessly on purpose).

In general, an important milestone is taking down Paralogue two if one wants to make use of physical units because that's the earlier place to acquire Hand Axes and Javelins. For a similar reason, the early Killing Edge and Killer Lance are pretty important for allowing physical attackers to try and contribute (plus, stacked with Solidarity and Anathema, they ain't half bad for reliability).

[Interceptor]

Have you tried a run-through without buying items from summoned teams? I'm interested in devising a speed-run like that, so I'd be curious as to how one may go about it regularly.

Not personally. This guide is approaching two years old (when I started, the Bonus Box items were only released up to Gae Bolg), and was intended to help average players complete Lunatic+, so I voraciously devoured whatever Spotpass items were available to help increase reliability. Mostly that took the form of Levin Swords, OHKO weapons, early Mire tomes, and Physic staves.

You can squeeze out speed and resources if you're willing to do things like rig misses/crits or reset for favorable skills. That's the way that people classically approached L+, and eventually you get a strong enough Robin that you don't have to worry about such things.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I'd rather avoid digging too deeply into Renown or rigging skills/crits if possible, will cross that bridge when I get to it.

If it helps put that into perspective, it takes less than an hour (possibly lower than 40 mins if you're fast) to grind out enough Renown for the Gradivus (assuming you do it with GG access), and it might even save that much time alone.

If you still want an alternate strat, the Gae Bolg would be a good place to start looking- it can't counter the DM but is otherwise pretty strong and adds a good amount of durability to Fred.

[Knusperkeks]

Thanks for your kind words, Interceptor.

Right now I'm fixing the syntax and trim everything down a little bit. There are too many little errors to count them all. Also: formatting.

I'm at chapter 9 right now, so the next update should look more pleasing to the eye (I hope).

[Czar_Yoshi]

I think I'm going to do a few test runs up to Cht.5 to get a better idea of what Robin's stat spread will be by then and what is/isn't reasonable to get in terms of stat thresholds, weapon ranks and supports in a 1000 Renown + full BB setting. Ideally I want 16 Mag (after Spirit Dust) + A Tomes, Robin x Sumia C, Chrom x Fred C, Chrom x Sumia B, and Robin around Lv.15-17 by the end of Cht.4.

Minor Prologue optimization: if Robin moves into place on turn 1 before Fred kills the Myrm, s/he can blast it first with Thunder (free wexp even if it misses, which is really likely) for a tiny bit more chip exp. Also Fred should trade away Chrom's weapons for turn 2 so he doesn't DS, Robin will get more hits in on the Myrm that way.

D Tomes with 35 Thunder uses remaining whooo. Robin is such a terrible shot. I'm not going to keep this one because both of my levels so far have been terrible but I still want to see how far it'll go by the end of Pro.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Knusperkeks]

In before people position +10 avoid Myrmidon's on top of a fort and bombard them with Mire for free A rank tomes.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Oops, wait no that's normal. In Lunatic you only get wexp for the first five attacks on an enemy (I don't think the exact number is recorded elsewhere, but I just tested it and it's five).

[Knusperkeks]

Oops, wait no that's normal. In Lunatic you only get wexp for the first five attacks on an enemy (I don't think the exact number is recorded elsewhere, but I just tested it and it's five).

I think it's called lunatic penalty. It's mentioned in the experience gain formula, didn't check the weapon exp formula.

[Czar_Yoshi]

OK, I'm working on Cht.1 now and think I'm getting somewhere. I'm not ready for a full write-up, screenshots and all yet but it's got a ~50% success rate right now, counting resets for skills. It's not completely skill resistant, but it's movement patter proof and has acceptable thresholds (12 Spd and 10 Str- +4 over base in both assuming a Spd asset, which you should hit around 50% of the time if you can get to Lv.8 in Pro) for a +Spd build, and also gives no kills to Fred and 1-2 to Chrom, which is nice. No Elixir uses period, and Vulneraries are only used in response to bad RNG as well. Also it works without Thunder, so high usage Prologue strats are OK.

Basically with those numbers Robin can 1RKO Fighters that lack HP+5 with a Fred support and the Bronze Sword. The only skills you really don't want to see are Luna+ on the bottom Merc and Hawkeye on Hammertime- the Boss missing Hawkeye isn't critical but it helps a lot. It's still doable even if both of those skills are present, but a lot more random.

On turn 1, Robin x Fred head to the bottom fort and take down the Fighter with Fred unequipped (more wexp for Robin and he dies anyway). They usually won't take significant damage unless he has both Luna+ and Hawkeye, but even then it doesn't matter. Chrom and Lissa get in the position KTT's kiting strat uses (Lissa one right and all the way down, Chrom to her left) to pick up Virion and Sully (other positions change how the top Merc and one Fighter move, which is something to look into). EP, nothing happens assuming the Fighter died.

Turn 2, the Fort heals pretty much everything Robin took unless she ate a Luna+. If her health is near full, have her do nothing, otherwise use the turn to take a Vulnerary. Sully pairs up with Chrom and Virion with Lissa (Chrom has the Rapier equipped). Sully then moves into range of the top Merc to pull him with Lissa standing adjacent (separate Virion from Lissa) for a little Avo.

EP, Robin fights some Fighters and one Merc. The Fighters all die, and the Merc takes over half its HP. Robin usually lives unless both the Merc had Luna+ and Hammertime had Hawkeye- she can take a few hits otherwise. Sully fights the top Merc, it's nice if she gets a DS but not required.

Turn 3, depending on the state of the Merc either kite it upwards, healing with Lissa, or blast it with Virion and then KO with Chrom. It's useful if it lacks Vantage+ for this because Chrom will then be at full HP afterward, but not required. Robin should move to the top Fort- sometimes there's a Fighter in Bronze range, who should be KOed. The Boss is never in range of this Fort.

EP, everything but the Boss and the Archer should die (they'll be at full HP). Sully should heal up with Lissa and distract the Archer- between her and Chrom they can take a few hits, even if it has Luna+. From here, Sully will take its initial hit, then next turn the pair will switch to Chrom (if neither the Merc nor the Archer have Luna+, he can take both hits without healing) and fight the Archer. The turn after that, Virion should come alongside Chrom, take Sully for the +Spd and attack the Archer, then Chrom finishes it (if Virion will KO the Archer for some reason, finish it with Chrom instead) and heal up. From here it's just the Boss.

Boss: if it lacks Hawkeye, Robin can stand on the Fort and generally Dodgetank it for several turns with Bronze equipped. There are several ways to take him down, but what I've been doing is leaving the Fort once the Archer is dead and making sure Avatar can take a hit with the Vulnerary, and moving Chrom x Sully as close as possible (have Lissa heal Chrom beforehand, and use a Vulnerary if needbe- he needs to be able to take a hit from the Boss). On EP the Boss will prioritize Chrom over Fred and attack him at range. Next turn, move Fred so he's between the Boss and Chrom, transfer Robin for Sully, and hit with the Bronze Sword. Robin then unequips Chrom attacks with Thunder (if she can take two hits in a row) or either does nothing or heals with a Vulnerary otherwise. It takes her three hits when paired with Chrom to kill him, so they'll get enough support for a C.

I'm going to go on and work on Cht.5 for a while, but I'll definitely come back to this soon.

Edit: if the first Fighter lacks both HP+5 and Hawkeye, you can position Chrom to the right of the fort before having Avatar kill him for 10 more Avo, dropping him below 40 listed which is useful if he's packing Luna+. It can also help reach C, as it turns out two fights with the Boss isn't enough (but that will put them over the threshold). Chrom just hops onto Sully afterword so there's no downsides to doing it if skills permit.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Good catch on the Prologue optimizations. I'll edit those in when I get a chance. I'm still fiddling with chapter 1. I think I've actually got something that kites up the right side with a pretty high success rate, but it splits into two distinct paths depending on if the boss wants to be silly or not, so it needs a lot more work to go over both paths.

Bonus points: if this strat is as good as I think it is, Robin should come out of it with a C Fred and Chrom support, possibly even a C Lissa support too, as well as Fred getting a Virion C support.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Sounds good. It would be really nice if we had multiple different strats to choose between depending on skills and stats.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah. The Prologue strat works with anything, but I find the chapter 1 strat leaning a lot on Robin having 11 (maybe 10, if we feel like living on the edge) Def in order to reliably get through it. Of course, this strat also assumes that every enemy on the field has Luna+, so there's some leeway for other setups, since a full complement of Luna+ is pretty rare. For reference, the save I've been working this out with starts the battle with a Robin who has 21 HP and 10 Def and all but two of the enemies have Luna+ (including the Archer, but not the Boss or one of the Fighters). Of course, this Robin decided to make up for that by picking up a ton of Mag—enough to 3HKO the Boss assuming no Woods (the strat I worked out still assumes Robin has more average Mag, though).

Still even getting up to 10 Def can be a bit iffy for any other asset, so yeah, it'd be helpful to have more specialized strats for other builds.

[Knusperkeks]

8 hours of university today, and then I come home and literally sit here for 10 hours editing my post.

Please tell me whether you like it or not, and what I should change if it's the latter.

Literally lunatic...

[eclipse]

8 hours of university today, and then I come home and literally sit here for 10 hours editing my post.

Please tell me whether you like it or not, and what I should change if it's the latter.

Literally lunatic...

Perhaps list the skills you're using as a separate "table" within the stats? It's minor, but it's something that interests me. Otherwise, I like it!

[Knusperkeks]

Perhaps list the skills you're using as a separate "table" within the stats?

Makes the stats section too bloated imo.

I implemented it's own section near the start of the post.

[Interceptor]

Literally lunatic...

Looking pretty good. You've already answered three of the biggest questions that I had going into the run, which were 1) can Chrom be made useful? (YUP), 2) can you train multiple staffers at once (YEP!), and 3) can you gt Laurent through nine levels of Merc in his joining chapter with E Swords (yep, thanks to Rescue!).

I'm looking forward to seeing what LAURENT! can do once he gets going. Since yours has Tomefaire and Sol over mine, he's going to be a world-destroying badass for sure.

[Knusperkeks]

Looking pretty good. You've already answered three of the biggest questions that I had going into the run, which were 1) can Chrom be made useful? (YUP), 2) can you train multiple staffers at once (YEP!), and 3) can you gt Laurent through nine levels of Merc in his joining chapter with E Swords (yep, thanks to Rescue!).

I'm looking forward to seeing what LAURENT! can do once he gets going. Since yours has Tomefaire and Sol over mine, he's going to be a world-destroying badass for sure.

It was a bit of a pain, but it can be done. I really should have just forged that bronze sword.

At one point he literally dealt 1 (2 displayed, pavise+) damage to a pegasus knight Falcon Knight.

The PK FK had 53 HP. I used Miriel to hit the PK FK for 2x26., as can be seen here:

[spoiler=picture]

Back to ch.15: With a Lucina support and Rally Magic, he can 2HKO the Dark Knights. They have 61 HP and 18 Res. Without tonics.

I'm almost done with the chapter.

[spoiler=here is a screenshot of the person in question]

I'm seriously considering to use the arms scroll in this chapter to help Maribelle to get from D lances to C, for Pseudo-Tomefaire via Shock Stick and Lancefaire... She is only halfway through E though. It's a struggle for sure.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Knusperkeks

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I'm definitely interested in seeing the bow-centric build pushed to its limits, especially since Assassin->Sniper is still on the table as an endpoint for my current run.

I think I've got my chapter 1 strat more or less down at this point, since I can pretty much just pick up and go without paying much mind to the Lunatic+ skills. Gotta grab some screenshots, but I'll likely update the Prologue strat at the same time as I build the guide for chapter 1.

I've been toying with chapter 2, but even with a Virion C support, I can't seem to get a foothold on the right side of the map (at least not consistently; so far the ones that did pull through had somewhat excessive dual strike luck). For the moment, I just feel like everyone's short 2-3 movement. That is, I use all my unit turns for offense, so no one's available to facilitate kiting shenanigans.

I think the mountain strat from this guide is going to remain the optimal opening. Having to fight that Barbarian while he's on the mountain always bugged me, so I made a few tweaks that optimize the amount of death thrown his way—one of which I'd initially tried offline and gotten a bit wary about because Fred missed a 78 against a Patience Merc, but Czar_Yoshi convinced me to give more chances. I think I'm okay risking a 90.54% true hit over a 97.24% if I can increase the odds of offing that Barb.

Anyway, enough rambling about a step I haven't fully explained. Basically, after Virion pokes the Merc, instead of Stahl moving to attack the Barb first, Fred moves into position to kill the Merc. He loses 10 displayed hit, which is what I was talking about above. Additionally, he can't steal Stahl's sword, but I'll explain why I don't think that that's important in a bit. As a trade-off, Stahl gets the boosted hit instead, bringing his hit up to 90, as well as adding a 24% chance of dual strike. His chance to hit is only 52 displayed (54.40% true), but if it does land, he does 20. Combined with Stahl's hit, that's 26, meaning even if Robin whiffs both subsequent attacks, if Chrom then dual strikes, a single strike at base Str is enough to finish the Barb off.

And speaking of Robin, I optimized her hit a bit too. Currently, the guide places Lissa under the mountain, aligned to where the Barb was. However, if Lissa is first positioned (say, moving her after attacking with Virion) below where Robin will be attacking from, she, Stahl, Virion and Chrom (assuming Chrom C) will push the support level up to 5, meaning 5 extra tasty hit for Robin. My Robin had 66 hit and improving that to 71 represents a bit over a 6% true hit increase for both of her attacks. This improves her chances of both hits landing from 59.6% to 69.7%.

Okay, and finally, my rationale for not really caring about stealing Stahl's Bronze Sword. The step-by-step guide consistently murders all but two Barbs and two Soldiers (one of which can't reach Fred for when the sword would matter most for tanking). Since we're assuming Hawkeye all around and that we're looking to maximize damage output (to get that last Soldier down to his lonesome, kitable self), I think the Iron Axe is the better option.

The wounded Barb is going to try to jump Robin (and then die) unless Fred is fighting with a lance (or possibly if Robin rolls a ridiculous amount of HP and Def up over all her levels). This leaves a Barb or a Soldier for Fred to take on (since one will body block the other). Not only does the Iron Axe offer 5 more damage, but it'll give him neutral or favourable weapon triangle match-up vs. the favourable or unfavourable of using the sword. With a Virion C support (my chapter 1 strat practically guarantees this), Fred will have 24 attack, leaving the Soldier with 12 HP, which is exactly enough for a 13 attack (the bare minimum in your requirements; if no Virion C, flipping Miriel or Lissa onto Robin can make up the difference too) Robin to finish him off. The Soldier will also lose out on 2 attack and 10 hit (whereas having the sword would give it 1 damage and 15 hit). If the Barb decides to come in instead, damage output doesn't matter: the sword and axe will both put him in range of Robin killing him off. However, the sword would make him lose 1 damage and 15 hit. Overall, I think using the Iron Axe is the all-around safer bet.

[Interceptor]

I've been toying with chapter 2, but even with a Virion C support, I can't seem to get a foothold on the right side of the map (at least not consistently; so far the ones that did pull through had somewhat excessive dual strike luck). For the moment, I just feel like everyone's short 2-3 movement. That is, I use all my unit turns for offense, so no one's available to facilitate kiting shenanigans.

Man, tell me about it. When I first sat down to beat Ch2, the thing that frustrated me the most was how everyone was just a little short of their best position. It'd be a heck of a lot easier (or at least less clunky) if they just let you position your army one chapter earlier than normal. There's a certain elegance to passing Robin around like a hot potato (See also: Ch3), but I'd just assume never have to do it at all.

Anyway, enough rambling about a step I haven't fully explained. Basically, after Virion pokes the Merc, instead of Stahl moving to attack the Barb first, Fred moves into position to kill the Merc. [...] My Robin had 66 hit and improving that to 71 represents a bit over a 6% true hit increase for both of her attacks. This improves her chances of both hits landing from 59.6% to 69.7%.

I messed with this a little bit when I was coming up with the strat, but I threw it out because it was strictly faster to just keep repeating the DS/crit attempt until it lands. Definitely it's a bigger factor in a no-reset run. Not sure if I should roll it into the final attempt or not... I hate resets, but the maneuver also doesn't guarantee a victory, either.

Okay, and finally, my rationale for not really caring about stealing Stahl's Bronze Sword. The step-by-step guide consistently murders all but two Barbs and two Soldiers (one of which can't reach Fred for when the sword would matter most for tanking). Since we're assuming Hawkeye all around and that we're looking to maximize damage output (to get that last Soldier down to his lonesome, kitable self), I think the Iron Axe is the better option.

The wounded Barb is going to try to jump Robin (and then die) unless Fred is fighting with a lance (or possibly if Robin rolls a ridiculous amount of HP and Def up over all her levels). This leaves a Barb or a Soldier for Fred to take on (since one will body block the other). Not only does the Iron Axe offer 5 more damage, but it'll give him neutral or favourable weapon triangle match-up vs. the favourable or unfavourable of using the sword. With a Virion C support (my chapter 1 strat practically guarantees this), Fred will have 24 attack, leaving the Soldier with 12 HP, which is exactly enough for a 13 attack (the bare minimum in your requirements; if no Virion C, flipping Miriel or Lissa onto Robin can make up the difference too) Robin to finish him off. The Soldier will also lose out on 2 attack and 10 hit (whereas having the sword would give it 1 damage and 15 hit). If the Barb decides to come in instead, damage output doesn't matter: the sword and axe will both put him in range of Robin killing him off. However, the sword would make him lose 1 damage and 15 hit. Overall, I think using the Iron Axe is the all-around safer bet.

I'd agree with this. Iron Axe is better all-around for what you need to do with Fred here, and the trade isn't necessary at all.

[Knusperkeks]

Updated chapter 15.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Knusperkeks

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I messed with this a little bit when I was coming up with the strat, but I threw it out because it was strictly faster to just keep repeating the DS/crit attempt until it lands. Definitely it's a bigger factor in a no-reset run. Not sure if I should roll it into the final attempt or not... I hate resets, but the maneuver also doesn't guarantee a victory, either.

Yeah, unfortunately, I don't think there's any real guarantees in many of these early strats. They can be optimized to mitigate the worst threats, but any number of things could still go wrong. Like, overall, even, Zeal and Gamble enemies will almost always have listed crit because it's just not feasible to dedicate three other characters to getting that +10 Dodge or after level 10, having Robin babysit people with Solidarity (which also doesn't solve the problem of listed crit on herself when she's very likely doing some tanking). The chapter 2 Barb on the mountain could be a dodging god despite all the firepower coming his way. My chapter 1 strat could fall apart from just one or two misses, even though most of it is around 85 displayed. Same with offing that opening Barb in Prologue or randomizing one of the few skill combos on the right that will just flat out murder Fred.

Best we can offer is a very high chance of success that fails spectacularly when things do go wrong. >.>

[Czar_Yoshi]

His chance to hit is only 52 displayed (54.40% true), but if it does land, he does 20. Combined with Stahl's hit, that's 26, meaning even if Robin whiffs both subsequent attacks, if Chrom then dual strikes, a single strike at base Str is enough to finish the Barb off.

If you can start the chapter with Robin's Bronze Sword on Fred and have him use it for the DS attempt, it could increase his hitrate significantly. Someone should check if it's strong enough to provide a guaranteed 2HKO from Robin (she'll have to be without it against the Barb on turn 2, but I don't think this is a dealbreaker- she can get it back on turn 3 if Vaike takes it from Fred and she takes it from him).

[Interceptor]

If you can start the chapter with Robin's Bronze Sword on Fred and have him use it for the DS attempt, it could increase his hitrate significantly. Someone should check if it's strong enough to provide a guaranteed 2HKO from Robin (she'll have to be without it against the Barb on turn 2, but I don't think this is a dealbreaker- she can get it back on turn 3 if Vaike takes it from Fred and she takes it from him).

This is probably a better solution even if it didn't work. Robin needs the Bronze Sword on Turn 2 in order to keep from getting a crit on the Barbarian and killing herself, but the turn-by-turn has Stahl doing the trade anyway, so there's no reason why he can't just give her his Bronze Sword instead of just re-arranging hers. That would let Frederick have the BS from the very start of the chapter.

I'll definitely do this for my run, nice idea.

EDIT: Frederick with Bronze + Stahl will hit the Barbarian for 11 + 6, leaving 16 damage left to deal. Robin will hit for 10 with Thunder, so that's still a guaranteed ORKO if both hits land and Chrom doesn't proc DS. It also leaves open the possibility for a Chrom DS (7 damage) plus enough buffer for a single Robin miss.

It's a good maneuver, and might even be more reliable while not being slower.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Interceptor

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Hmmm, yeah, that's pretty good. That bumps his hit up to 72, which is now an 84.60% true hit. I think at this point, my concerns about wave 1 are pretty nominal.

Next, I need to figure out how to herd the second wave around. As it is, I find they get bored of chasing Chrom and start to run amok right before or right after the boss dies. If they all went in the same direction, it'd be okay, but peel off and split pretty randomly between pursuing the two groups.

I've also been idly pondering if there's any value in getting a Robin/Sully C for chapter 3, as she provides the same Def bonus as Vaike, making it easy to do something like pick up 3 BP in chapter 1 and 12 BP in chapter 2. Virion is also a possibility for a similar reason (with a bit more effort required in chapter 1, though).

Edited February 25, 2015 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[Czar_Yoshi]

When focusing on early Robin supports, do keep in mind that s/he gains them at different rates depending on whether Robin is male or female (particularly, same gender C supports can be done in one map, while opposite genders need two or a Seed/Tile). At the moment I think we're all focusing on female (who's better all around; Chrom and Fred take two chapters either way but Sully and Sumia can be done in one) but it could be useful to keep this in mind since build options greatly increase after earlygame.

Tonight I'll do some number crunching to see exactly what the new strat's odds of success for turn 1 are. I'm pretty sure I know all the numbers off the top of my head but if someone with a Cht.2 save could post them to make sure... (Assuming -Skl Robin with ~70 listed on the Barb after Lissa bonus and base everyone else)

Edited February 25, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi