Gerik as ranger - the most underestimated promotion

[Shadow Mir]

The issue with Runeswords is that since only half the Strength stat is used, it probably wouldn't stand against a hand axe even with enemies having more defense than resistance, and hand axes are easily bought. Runeswords... are not.

[Nicolas]

@Levant Fortner

Formula for runesword attack:

= (Strength / 2) + [(Weapon might + Weapon triangle bonus) x Effective bonus] + Support bonus

What mean, the attack power for Gerik using runesword is

12+[(12+0)x1]+0=24

For hand axes:

25+[(7+0)x1]+0=32

So is I know that typical cyclops has 18~20 def and 5~9 res mean the reune sword be quite useful against them. I do not check stats for other monster, but I remember they usually get 5~9 res and more defense than res (excluding gorgons).

Edited May 27, 2013 by X.A.N.

[Lord Raven]

I did not think about you all tell me that Gerik is better hero because he can use hand axes -_-". I agreed, hand axe is nice weapon, but better than bows+1MOV? Anyway, what if Gerik with hand axe has less attack that is need to kill his opponent, but with steel axe/iron blade/ steel bow enough to do this?

It's better to do a good amount of chip damage than no damage at all. When you are a bow user, you do absolutely nothing on enemy phase, which is a hindrance because most of your kills should be on enemy phase if you want to play with any metric of efficiency or simplicity. Gerik also tends to have enough attack to kill many things with a Hand Axe, so your point is generally moot. Steel Axe/Iron Blade/etc is generally overkill and I only use Steel Axe when a) there's enough enemies around with no 2-range weapons and b) when I'm trying to build his rank.

Also, Steel Axes are easy to build rank with although I'm pretty sure Gerik starts with D axes anyway. Still, I had it at A by endgame so it's actually very easy. Bows don't give you anywhere near the versatility of axes, so you are probably not measuring very well what exactly you're losing for what you're gaining. Having that extra move means very little when you get blocked because you can't counter at either 2-range or 1-range.

I'm also wonder how many people even try Gerik as ranger. I think not much.

I've tried Neimi as a Ranger and was thoroughly unimpressed. She ends up getting 1-upped by every single unit with 2 range simply because she almost relies on them for help. She serves more of a support unit role with chip damage and the Rescue command when she's used. Gerik would be the same except he gets a kill, but then he's not nearly as useful as he could be.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Lord Raven

[Nicolas]

@Lord Raven

This discussion is senseless, because you think Gerik as ranger has the same advantages and destination as Gerik as Hero. That's (of course)not true. Yes ranger truly cannot use hand axes, but when he is equipped with swords( and if you play smart: bows) he can kill many of monsters in enemy phase. Obviously Hero has other advantages, but still everybody tells ranger is worse, but he isn't. Ranger is just other and for me much(and people like me) better.

[mewyeon]

Hummm....I guess I never turned him ranger because I felt like I had Innes to do the bow work, and he was quite sufficient for me.

[Lord Raven]

@Lord Raven

This discussion is senseless, because you think Gerik as ranger has the same advantages and destination as Gerik as Hero. That's (of course)not true. Yes ranger truly cannot use hand axes, but when he is equipped with swords( and if you play smart: bows) he can kill many of monsters in enemy phase. Obviously Hero has other advantages, but still everybody tells ranger is worse, but he isn't. Ranger is just other and for me much(and people like me) better.

No discussion is senseless so long as two people believe what they're arguing and are willing to stay calm when creating debate. But at any rate, no I don't believe they have the same advantages and destination (whatever that means), I believe Hero has greater advantages and a much more efficient destination.

Your point about swords and bows doesn't make any sense because "playing smart" isn't really an argument. Pick what playing smart means and go into detail about that point and I'll bite. But as for the rest of your point, I don't know what playing smart is, and I don't know why swords are much more advantageous for enemy phase when Hand Axes are clearly superior for reasons already outlined in good detail. You've provided no proof as to Ranger being worse other than extremely vague personal experience.

[Hash Jar]

I think all bow users would be better if you could rearrange equipment after attacking. Boy would that be nice.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Hash Jar

[NinjaMonkey]

I think all bow users would be better if you could rearrange equipment after attacking. Boy would that be nice.

Thing is, Snipers can't use any weapons besides bows...

Edited May 27, 2013 by NinjaMonkey

[CT075]

the thing about having +1 mov over hero is moot because you're still not countering about half of the enemies

sure you get there faster but in the end you have to kill them with either the rest of your units or gerik himself (by which point any gains the +1 mov got would have been mitigated by requiring a mopup crew); runesword helps but not a lot (and there are definitely other people who want the runesword)

and finally i have actually tried rangergerik and found him thoroughly underwhelming compared to herogerik

[MacLovin]

Very underwhelming.

What made Sue/Shin good in fe6 was the amount of hard to kill flying enemies plus Sue having decent bases and Shin being I DOUBLE EVERYTHING AND COME WITH 10 STR/14 SPEED.

Rath was good because lyn mode, 18-17 aid, wall breaking, and because he kinda helped by dropping hector/hawkeye places.

Ranger!Gerik is just bland.

[General Horace]

hero gerik can use the magic swords you mentioned too anyway

and yeah bows are just a bad weapon type in fe8, the only threatening enemies that fly are dracozombies and that one phantom ship boss, (which gerik isn't around for) and there are what, 3 dracozombies in the main story, 2 of which are avoidable? The stat different is pretty much null and void since the enemies are weak enough for gerik to kill without the extra stats.

[Titamon]

Very underwhelming.

What made Sue/Shin good in fe6 was the amount of hard to kill flying enemies plus Sue having decent bases and Shin being I DOUBLE EVERYTHING AND COME WITH 10 STR/14 SPEED.

Rath was good because lyn mode, 18-17 aid, wall breaking, and because he kinda helped by dropping hector/hawkeye places.

Ranger!Gerik is just bland.

Sue's base stats suck

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Hero!Gerik's much better than Ranger!Gerik because bows, as said, suck. Your 10-range with a Longbow argument is honestly moot because Longbows are pathetic. Gerik would rather have 6 move and a Hand Axe than 7 move and a Longbow. Bows are not useful in FE8 considering the flying enemies are few and far between. Sacred Twins are a much better choice for Dracozombies, anyway.

[Nicolas]

@Lord Raven

You're... right. I forgot about arguments. But we can still easy and (I hope so) objectively check what promotion is better. I and you( or someone other) will make a video which Gerik solo beating 1st floor of LR. I want to make it today, or next day(or even next next day) but I'm not sure I will have enough free time. So rules:

• Gerik should has maxed STR, SKL, SPD, HP and other stats(excluding movement of course) on ~20 point.
• No hack, cheats, or whatever other things like that.
• Map is 1st floor of LR
• You can equip Gerik with any no-sacred weapons which can be got without codes
• Gerik cannot take things for other character
• Winner is who will end 1st floor in smallest number of phase

[MacLovin]

Sue's base stats suck

Not for her level.

She's very underrated.

@Lord Raven

You're... right. I forgot about arguments. But we can still easy and (I hope so) objectively check what promotion is better. I and you( or someone other) will make a video which Gerik solo beating 1st floor of LR. I want to make it today, or next day(or even next next day) but I'm not sure I will have enough free time. So rules:

• Gerik should has maxed STR, SKL, SPD, HP and other stats(excluding movement of course) on ~20 point.
• No hack, cheats, or whatever other things like that.
• Map is 1st floor of LR
• You can equip Gerik with any no-sacred weapons which can be got without codes
• Gerik cannot take things for other character
• Winner is who will end 1st floor in smallest number of phase

Uh,

1-He's not maxing those stats, according to averages.

2-Why are you bringing codes and Ruins/Tower to this?

Look, most of the maps that gerik helps out alot in are route maps.

Ranger gerik is forced to lock himself to 1 range or 2 range and will get mobbed.

Hero gerik can be dropped somewhere and spam hand axes.

[Doga]

Hand axes are the best weapon in the GBA games, hands down.

I just wanted to add my input because I love hand axes.

[Espinosa]

Hand axes are the best weapon in the GBA games, hands down.

I just wanted to add my input because I love hand axes.

Not in FE6 I would argue. Marcus is the only good user of Hand Axes early on, and maybe also Dieck if you decide to promote him (not a good idea IMO).

[Doga]

I was thinking about FE6 but I thought the usefulness of the Hand Axe in 7 and 8 would average well enough.

edit: Also, why is promoting Dieck a bad thing? Or do you just mean in earlygame?

Edited May 28, 2013 by Doga

[Espinosa]

I was thinking about FE6 but I thought the usefulness of the Hand Axe in 7 and 8 would average well enough.

edit: Also, why is promoting Dieck a bad thing? Or do you just mean in earlygame?

Rutger will want the first Hero Crest, and maps get pretty huge from that point onwards. Dieck being a pure combat foot unit (and one that cannot be carried by Miledy or promoted Noah), I don't see why you'd invest experience and other resources into him. Training Alan/Lance is hard enough as it is, and that actually pays off (though not nearly as much as training another flier).

[CT075]

Gerik should has maxed STR, SKL, SPD, HP and other stats(excluding movement of course) on ~20 point.

why

Winner is who will end 1st floor in smallest number of phase

this is a retarded contest because nobody plays FE for turns with a single character

a better test would be to have a fixed team with fixed equipment and a fixed gerik (preferably on average stats) being the only difference

that way we can see the impact of warp and rescuedrop on turns

Edited May 28, 2013 by CT075

[Nicolas]

@up

why

Because when he maxed his skl and spd you can feel different between both class max stats(hero gets 2 more skl, but ranger get 4 more spd). Maxed HP and str it's not necessary, but Gerik always maxed it, so no matter.

a better test would be to have a fixed team with fixed equipment and a fixed gerik (preferably on average stats) being the only difference

that way we can see the impact of warp and rescuedrop on turns

That will be awful test because it will be more variables between run, even if team will be the same (remember one character work better with other and i have not in mind support bonuses). All players have other playing style, what mean someone likes Gerik as Ranger and someone likes Gerik as Hero.

Testing Gerik with similar stats is good because it will reduction most variables.

[Hawk King]

I completely agree with the topic title.

Ranger!Gerik is very under-rated. Most people say Hero >>>>>> Ranger. But its more like Hero > Ranger.

There comes a point where Hero!Gerik is just unnecessary. An example would be in my 95 turns draft clear. I made Gerik a Ranger instead of Hero because I already had 2 competent 1-2 range weapon users and his 7 movement and mount canto allowed me to cut a turn in Chapter 14. So in that case, Ranger!Gerik actually was better than Hero!Gerik.

[Nicolas]

@up

Yeah, but most times you will have also good (and even better) close-fighters like Garcia, Ross, Forde/Franz, Gillian... Gerik is a little bit worse in close combat than they, but more balance at all what mean he will be better hi-movement unit than any other because he will still has great strength of close-fighting unit and hi-movement, but not weakness from support unit (as ranger he outclasses Cormag and Tana by def&res, paladin by spd&skl and usability and both lords by versatility(remember lords cary only lances/swords)).

I think ranger==hero.

Edited May 28, 2013 by X.A.N.

[CT075]

i'm not even going to argue if you want to say that having all caps is a better test than having average stats and a solo run is better than a full team

you talk about the extra stat caps but it literally will not matter in any realistic playthrough (even less if you're talking about lowturns); for the same reason a solo run is meaningless because it doesn't even come close to replicating an actual playthroug

[Nicolas]

Yeah, your point. Maybe we should do 3~5 solo runs and making for theme the arithmetic mean. That will be better.