LTC

[MacLovin]

I wonder what units like Mintz and Roger would have done if you got them in LTC. Perhaps they would have made up the turns they cost? I can see Roger being useful due to decent bases and outdoor mount, not so sure about mintz.

[dondon151]

the thing is, if you send plum that way, the DZs are going to target her instead (OHKO'd, minimum ~20 hit if she gets CF and anti-evil), and she has even worse movement. the reason why you would hypothetically need CF plum is because on turn 5, runan backtracks from the pedestal, and plum can dance him, allowing runan to backtrack even further (and kill the remaining DZ).

however, i do have an iron bow lying around, which gives racquel more avo than the DZs have hit. racquel has 33 displayed crit due to anti-evil and has a high chance to proc adept, so i'll test out using lionel @ salia lance in the lead (with 7 mov, he's just barely good enough to pull the DZ into runan's range) and racquel @ iron bow as 2-range support.

wrt AoE tomes: from what i see, 5-tile tomes like tornado and bau crash aren't good enough. sierra needs a 9-tile tome. i have no idea where to mug an ifrid or an evil thunder, but land crash is on every witch in chapter 37. you also have plenty of deployment slots (though you do need almost all of them in this map).

there's no way that mintz and roger would have made up the turns that they cost. mintz does nothing unique. neither does roger, but he does let you keep the magic staff, which can potentially save a turn each in chapters 34 and 35 (and i'm not sure about 35). it doesn't make up for the 4 turns that he costs.

Edited July 1, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

http://www.fireemblemwod.net/trs/guia/morse.htm

According to FE WoD, there's a 2% chance of finding Evil Thunder in a chest on floor 4... Yeah, good luck with that. About Ifrid, I'm pretty sure one of the earlygame bosses had one but I'm not sure which one? I think it's rendered differently in the translation.

I meant that you could use Plum to dance Racquel/Vega out of DZs' range (as in, they retreat, Plum dances them and they retreat further, maybe help with the rout after that).

Did you find only negative effects of tutoring Sierra Gale? Like, having it around means she has no chance of dying.

How good is your Lionel btw? 7 move is around average/slightly below average, but are his other stats good enough? His high AGI base compensates for the poor growth he has in the stat.

I'm sure Mintz and Roger would have some use - Mintz for some help in Barbarossa's map (I've used him there before on more relaxed runthroughs and he works wonders there - get him to low HP and he'll be one-rounding things with Pila and effective weaponry, can even poke the boss if going really slowly) and Roger is great in the early Holmes chapters, and not quite obsolete after the second split.

About the DZs: how many of them tend to die on turn 1? How many can you expect to be alive when Runan comes back on turn 5?

[Espinosa]

Yeah, tbqh, the Magic staff makes 27 mag Sierra possible for 45 atk with Sylpheed. Julius has 14 res and 24 dodge so you'll need a high-crit weapon to double your atk - Death has 20% crit but only 7 Mt, so that's 34 atk, 68 in a crit. Not enough to OHKO's Julius's 58 HP/14 res. God Hand offers 7% crit but 16 Mt, which is more than enough for a OHKO with a crit, but Sierra with capped skill has 24 crit against 24 dodge Julius has, so no crit is possible.

dondon, have you noticed the kill count against specific enemy types (displayed in the menus if you rotate them with shoulder buttons when looking at characters) affecting hit rates? Maybe they could affect crit rates as well. Last time I looked into mine, Raffin apparently was getting +2% boosts to hit and avo. How sweet.

[dondon151]

According to FE WoD, there's a 2% chance of finding Evil Thunder in a chest on floor 4... Yeah, good luck with that. About Ifrid, I'm pretty sure one of the earlygame bosses had one but I'm not sure which one? I think it's rendered differently in the translation.

i don't remember any enemy having ifrid. whatever, land crash should be good enough if sierra has at least 18 mag.

Did you find only negative effects of tutoring Sierra Gale? Like, having it around means she has no chance of dying.

How good is your Lionel btw? 7 move is around average/slightly below average, but are his other stats good enough? His high AGI base compensates for the poor growth he has in the stat.

well i've only done chapters 36 and a part of 37, and i've seen nothing positive come from it so far.

check the latest holmes route stats for lionel. he's okay, maybe slightly underleveled, but nothing that the salia lance can't fix. if need be i could backtrack to before chapter 27 and tutor him anti-evil at brahd if he needs more avo.

About the DZs: how many of them tend to die on turn 1? How many can you expect to be alive when Runan comes back on turn 5?

5 to 6; it depends on how they move and whether their breaths hit each other. i can't give you an estimate for how many will still be alive on turn 5 because i never got that far. after turn 1 there should only be 7 to 8 remaining, though. if they go about ignoring racquel, for example, she can kill 3 more by herself - 1 every turn - and there will still probably be some crossfire in the interim.

Yeah, tbqh, the Magic staff makes 27 mag Sierra possible for 45 atk with Sylpheed. Julius has 14 res and 24 dodge so you'll need a high-crit weapon to double your atk - Death has 20% crit but only 7 Mt, so that's 34 atk, 68 in a crit. Not enough to OHKO's Julius's 58 HP/14 res. God Hand offers 7% crit but 16 Mt, which is more than enough for a OHKO with a crit, but Sierra with capped skill has 24 crit against 24 dodge Julius has, so no crit is possible.

unless the bishop prioritizes healing julius, sierra can go for a PP + EP kill with sylpheed and an amulet.

dondon, have you noticed the kill count against specific enemy types (displayed in the menus if you rotate them with shoulder buttons when looking at characters) affecting hit rates? Maybe they could affect crit rates as well. Last time I looked into mine, Raffin apparently was getting +2% boosts to hit and avo. How sweet.

yes, i noticed it. i kind of ignored it though.

[dondon151]

hmm this is a doozy

i tried out the racquel @ iron bow variant and it seems like either the DZs can't see anti-evil's avo boost or they can't recognize that they can't hit a target. or maybe anti-evil's avo boost doesn't apply when attacked on EP by breath (L), because i recall one time racquel actually got hit when it shouldn't have been possible. she had 81 avo to their 77 hit and most of them went after her instead of lionel (on whom they did have a hit rate). the DZs only prioritized lionel after he got hit once in the crossfire and fell into KO range.

i considered your idea with using plum to help a unit retreat, but that could still be a problem. usually plum will be in range of a DZ. okay, so giving an amulet to plum would fix that. the other potential problem is that with only one combat unit left (lionel), there's a pretty significant risk that he'll get his path blocked, and it's going to be rather difficult to clean up any straggler DZs that survived the crossfire.

the best solution, in my opinion, is pretty simple: just make sure that runan doesn't have more than 32 HP (yeah, i know right? why didn't we think of this before?). this means that using the MHP plus on him in chapter 9 may have been a mistake. if he gets OHKO'd, then he's clearly going to be the best target. i think what i'm going to try next is to fill his inventory with amulets and not have him equip the main gauche for turn 1 EP. he'll probably get hit at least once and use up some of the amulets, but now he'll be at critical HP. i'll test this out with and without using my remaining MHP plus on racquel (so that she doesn't get OHKO'd at max HP) and see if they'll all go after runan on turn 2 (i'll test that out with and without the main gauche equipped).

next order of business: sierra @ gale. i've confirmed that it's the combination of gale and sylpheed that causes enemies to avoid her. i had her go through an enemy phase with thunder equipped instead and enemies were very willing to attack her. regardless, i still think that gale is a bad idea. sierra doesn't have any weapons or skills that combo with gale and don't discourage enemies from attacking her. you could tutor her life or death, i guess. but the other disadvantage of gale is that if she gets attacked by an enemy @ janura, she might not ORKO the enemy if she gets hit.

Edited July 3, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

Oh yeah, about breath accuracy. I have a feeling that it ignores some part of the calculations in contrast to normal attacks, perhaps a unit's avo? Maybe something else entirely. When doing map 21, I find that Katri's breath connects the vast majority (usually 7/8) of the enemies, if not all of them, even though the chance you calculated for that to happen was 20% iirc.

My Runan has 29 HP after map 19 zombie killing, so if I quit training him right there he'll have exactly 32 HP after promotion. With a 60% growth in HP, training him isn't safe anymore unless you savescum. He has 13 str, 10 agi, 7 def, so he's probably good for the DZ slaying the way he is. I didn't give him a MHP Plus because I sent it with Holmes, thinking I'll need it to survive map 21's dragon breath (not sure why I thought Holmes would be taking one in the first place).

Lionheart can use bows indoors. Have you tried using him instead of Racquel? You wouldn't need the HP Plus either as long as he got one HP level-up. I have a feeling he might have 4 move on the map when she has 6, though.

The game's AI definitely makes Gale a bad idea in most cases. The only exception I can think of is having high crit weapons. e.g. Mahter/Raffin with a +crit Iron Lance/Sword. They often go first and OHKO. Life or Death would probably work very well in combination with Janura.

[dondon151]

in my personal experience, i've found that katri usually doesn't hit all of her targets... i'm fairly sure that it's at worst very close to actual accuracy, otherwise racquel and runan would have died several times throughout all of my test runs of chapter 37.

i'm not going to use leonhart; his mov is bad and his AS is ass. i still haven't observed if the enemy monsters will attack raffin @ master lance if they get attacked first by gale.

[dondon151]

wow, so this is odd and discouraging.

i tried using a runan in KO range. okay, i gave him 3 amulets and his HP dropped to 5 on turn 1. good so far. on the next turn, i tried every combination of:

- using the MHP plus on racquel so she wasn't OHKO'd

- taking away all of runan's amulets so he had no protection

- equipping the relatively heavy shield sword instead of the main gauche to tank runan's avo

nope, they still went after racquel instead. it makes no sense. next i'll try a vega + lionel front and see if it's any different.

i also highly suspect that anti-evil does not work on EP against breath (L). i think the game might not consider your unit to be engaged in combat, thus it doesn't take the avo bonus into account.

[Espinosa]

Is it possible to somehow integrate Sierra into that strat? Sylpheed should 2HKO these dudes easily.

I was about to bring up Loffaru but then I remembered he is swordlocked indoors. Hmmm...

[dondon151]

loffarl's avo is also ass and sierra is much more likely to die, but i'll give it (sierra) a shot. it does complicate the top portion of the map, though, especially if the monsters won't attack raffin @ master lance (since he can't double without it, but he also has gale).

[dondon151]

from further testing, even more bewildering results

i tried using the vega + lionel lead and that failed. DZs preferred to target a full HP lionel @ amulet over a 5 HP runan w/o amulet. makes no sense, right? next i tried using sierra to misdirect the DZs on turn 2. it just so happened that i had to warp her next to runan because i hadn't given her an amulet beforehand and she needed to withdraw one from storage. well, now the DZs started targeting runan (5 HP, w/o amulet) instead of lionel. that's an improvement!

i had racquel start in the same position in which she started previously, so i decided why not have racquel go over there as well. totally inexplicably, her presence near lionel and vega caused the DZs to attack lionel again (even though she wasn't getting caught in the crossfire) instead of runan + sierra. this happened even when she had enough HP to survive one breath.

i'd need more amulets from chapter 35 to test this out further. right now, all i can say is that this game has some of the most utterly incomprehensible AI.

[Dark Sage]

from further testing, even more bewildering results

i tried using the vega + lionel lead and that failed. DZs preferred to target a full HP lionel @ amulet over a 5 HP runan w/o amulet. makes no sense, right? next i tried using sierra to misdirect the DZs on turn 2. it just so happened that i had to warp her next to runan because i hadn't given her an amulet beforehand and she needed to withdraw one from storage. well, now the DZs started targeting runan (5 HP, w/o amulet) instead of lionel. that's an improvement!

i had racquel start in the same position in which she started previously, so i decided why not have racquel go over there as well. totally inexplicably, her presence near lionel and vega caused the DZs to attack lionel again (even though she wasn't getting caught in the crossfire) instead of runan + sierra. this happened even when she had enough HP to survive one breath.

i'd need more amulets from chapter 35 to test this out further. right now, all i can say is that this game has some of the most utterly incomprehensible AI.

Yeah I have to say at times, I think the AI is just really random. I remember one summoner in that boat chapter with Maerhen was really inconsistent with his summoning (though I finished the map in 3 turns so maybe I didn't just wait long enough to see). It's especially noticeable in random encounters; I've seen enemies aggro me when they're far away or the same enemies sitting still when they're up close; sometimes they also just seem to mill around.

It could be something I'm missing but from your stories about the DZs and my own experiences, I really don't see another explanation other than the AI is partially randomized.

[Espinosa]

I think with AoE attacks the target(-s) vary depending on the number of victims. e.g. the boss will prefer 3 units over 2 and so on. This seems to be the case judging on your description as well (rather than any single character attracting the hate).

I guess if the AI does the same things in a particular scenario, we can't quite call it random.

[dondon151]

anyway i'm going to go back to the third route split and finalize holmes's chapters, since i now have a clear idea as to what i don't need on his route.

EDIT: goddammit i wrote over my chapter 30 save so i have to go back to chapter 27 again. i can mug a thief sword from morse tower and i'll never have to use maerhen again!

Edited July 6, 2013 by dondon151

[dondon151]

Division 3

The most pressing question that will end up determining many of the unit and resource allocations is how to distribute Plum, Lyria, Sierra, and Renee. These four units offer unique utility and have the greatest turn-saving potential. First one has to consider each of the map objectives until the end of the game:

Chapter 31 (Holmes): kill boss
Chapter 32: seize
Chapter 33: seize
Chapter 34 (Runan): seize (effectively kill boss)
Chapter 35: kill boss
Chapter 36: arrive, then defend
Chapter 37: rout (effectively seize, then rout)
Chapter 38 (Holmes): kill boss and arrive (Holmes can do both simultaneously)
Chapter 39 (Runan): kill boss

It takes too much effort to consider every combination of team assignments. My first assumption is that Renee and Sierra want to be in different teams. Having a unit who can use warp in each team should be marginally more efficient than having them both in the same team. The doubled warp power would be mostly wasted in kill boss maps.

Runan's route has 3 kill boss maps to Holmes's 1 (chapter 38 doesn't count). Holmes's route has 3 seize/arrive maps to Runan's sort-of 2. At this point, the logical distribution would be sending Renee with Holmes and Sierra with Runan. Now what to do with Plum and Lyria?

First, Plum. Plum can save a turn each in chapters 32, 35, 36, and 37. She has more turn-saving potential in Runan's maps. Next, Lyria. Chapters 34 and 35 in particular have bosses who are incredibly durable and are immune to skill activations, critical hits, or both. The immunity to critical hits means that one can't just spam Rukuud. On the other hand, all of the bosses in Holmes's maps can easily be killed with Yoda @ Rukuud. So Plum and Lyria will go with Runan as well.

Holmes's team:
Renee, Yoda

• Yoda can use the Rukuud at base. He'll have close to 100 crit against bosses.

Yoda isn't even needed if Shigen has 15 wlv, but he doesn't.

Holmes's items:
Rukuud, Master Bow, 1x Magic Shield

• Yoda will use Rukuud as his primary bosskilling weapon.
• Holmes needs to ORKO the chapter 38 boss, so he would like the Master Bow.

Runan's team:
Everyone else. I think you can literally get away with this.

Runan wants most of all some good bosskillers and indoor fighters. Raffin, Loffarl, and Sierra can handle the chapters 34 and 35 bosses, and any good combat unit can help out in chapter 37.

Runan's items:
Main Gauche, Luna Sword, 2x Master Sword, Master Lance, Gatling Bow, Sylpheed, God Hand, Zombie Staff, Amulets, Shields, 2x Door Key, Gold Bags, Boosters, Proofs

• The Main Gauche allows Runan to dodge chapter 37 DZs perfectly.
• Raffin needs the Luna Sword to penetrate Ernst's def in chapter 34.
• Loffarl wants the Gatling Bow to heavily damage Julius in chapter 35.
• Sierra will use Sylpheed or God Hand against bosses.
• The Zombie staff provides for good diversions when necessary.
• Everything that Runan or Holmes doesn't need will be sold to buy Amulets.

Chapter 31 (Encounter)

Bought 1x Door Key at Zemseria prior to the map.

Assignments:
Rukuud - Yoda
102 base crit, anyone?

Formation:
Renee

Renee just used the Anti-Evil Staff twice. Holmes killed a gargoyle.

Cleared in 2 turns.

Chapter 31 (Main)

Formation:
Yoda, Renee

Warp Yoda to bosskill. He pierced Zeek's Silver Shield with a double Rukuud critical at 92 crit.

Cleared in 1 turn.

Chapter 32

Assignments:
Magic Shield - Yoda
Rukuud gives Yoda +7 res, but the Magic Shield makes him nearly impervious to the several magic attacks that he has to sustain.

Formation:
Yoda, Renee

Warp Yoda on turn 1, warp Holmes on turn 2. Yoda actually had to EP kill the boss because deployment slots 1 and 2 don't start close enough to each other.

Cleared in 2 turns.

Chapter 33

Formation:
Yoda, Renee

The boss has an Elixir, but since I don't have Plum anyway, it doesn't make a difference.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Holmes 13.89
Shigen 16.86
Renee 15.30 24 0 14 14 4 18 9 18
Yoda 30.--

Cleared in 2 turns.
Obtained the Seiken Salia after the map.

Chapter 34

Sold 3x Gold Bag, 2x Repair Hammer, 1x Knight Proof, 2x Hero Proof, 1x Saint Proof, and 1x Super Proof for 45799G prior to the map.

Assignments:
Luna Sword - Raffin
The Luna Sword penetrates Ernst's def and Silver Shield.
God Hand - Sierra
Ernst has a Wind Shield, so God Hand bypasses that. He still has a Holy Sword and a Magic Shield to boost his res, though.
MAG Plus, SKL Plus - Sierra
Sierra will have to fight several high-avo bosses.

Formation:
Sierra, Rebecca, Lyria, Raffin, Sasha, Mahter, Lionel, Meriah, Plum

Turn 1: Used SKL Plus on Sierra.
Turn 2: Used MAG Plus on Sierra.

Since we've figured out that Plains Fighter doesn't work on this map, the only remaining option is a 2-turn clear. Raffin can knock 40 HP damage off Ernst with the Luna Sword and a Power Staff charge, and Sierra can take care of the rest. On turn 1, Sierra rewarped 2 tiles away from Ernst in order to manipulate him to equip his Hand Lance. This equates to a -9 AS (-18 avo) and -7 res difference, which renders Ernst far easier to kill.

In the meantime, the RAF took care of the nearby DK and ballistae on turn 1 to ensure Plum's safety on EP. This is not totally necessary, since a Zombie Staff summon can yield the same result. Runan got a turn 1 EP kill over on the left side of the map and Lionel helped to funnel EXP into Meriah.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Runan 15.83
Sasha 24.22 37 12 17 21 9 7 14 13
Raffin 24.03 43 16 16 17 15 1 12 17
Enteh 8.15
Mahter 20.85
Meriah 5.93 21 0 7 8 3 8 7 7
Lionel 16.84
Plum 11.65
Lyria 8.36
Rebecca 4.81
Sierra 16.80 30 1 13 19 3 20 10 12

Cleared in 2 turns.

Chapter 35

Assignments:
Gatling Bow - Loffarl
Short of tutoring City Fighter to an 8 mov mounted unit, the Gatling Bow is the only way to do good damage and reach Julius by turn 2.
POW Plus - Loffarl
Loffarl doesn't actually need the POW Plus, but he can ORKO Julius without Sierra's help at base str.

Formation:
(4) Lyria, Rebecca, ..., (9) Meriah, Loffarl, Plum, Sierra

Turn 1: Used Canto Manual on Loffarl; used POW Plus on Loffarl.

Nothing really special here... Runan funneled another kill to Meriah. Sierra needs to kill the mage in the middle of the map on turn 1.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Runan 15.89
Enteh 8.15
Meriah 6.47 21 0 7 8 3 9 8 8
Plum 11.78
Lyria 8.71
Loffarl 26.72 41 21 16 13 13 2 12 15
Rebecca 5.03 22 0 5 7 2 10 7 12
Sierra 17.05 30 2 14 19 3 20 10 13

Cleared in 2 turns.

Bought 9x Amulet after the map.

Chapter 36

Formation:
Sierra, Vega, Sun, Verna, Racquel, Plum, Narron, Raffin, Sasha, Lionel, Rebecca

Anyway, I came to realize that training Meriah to L10 was not only prohibitively difficult, but also pointless. This time around, I didn't kill the summoners and milked EXP to help combat units reach statistical targets. Runan, Vega, and Racquel prefer to have 15 str to ORKO dracozombies in chapter 37 (not absolutely necessary because they have a fair chance to kill already with skills and/or criticals). Sierra needs 15 wlv in order to use Earthquake in chapter 37.

Enteh as Muse pulled Rakis up to the northwest corner of the map. I had her kill the gargoyle summoner because gargoyles are annoying to fight and don't like to attack player units because they don't have enough atk to damage some of them. Runan ended up not getting the 15 str that he needs, but that's okay.

Name Lv.Ex HP Str Skl Agi Def Mag Luk Wlv
Runan 19.42 39 14 14 19 8 7 14 12
Sasha 25.98 38 13 17 21 9 8 14 14
Raffin 25.43 44 17 17 17 15 1 13 18
Narron 33.66 49 24 20 19 17 7 19 15
Vega 19.10 39 15 18 21 10 2 8 16
Racquel 23.32 28 15 21 21 8 5 15 19
Lionel 19.64 40 18 14 20 10 0 10 16
Plum 12.66 19 0 2 5 1 7 15 8
Sun 26.17 37 19 22 19 14 8 8 19
Rebecca 5.91
Sierra 20.05 31 4 16 20 4 20 10 15
Verna 17.40

Cleared in 6 turns.

i'm making slow progress on chapter 37, but some factors keep throwing a wrench into things. i figured out how to pull the DZs in the correct direction (which ends up occupying sierra on turns 2 and 3; not a good thing but i can't do anything about it), but completely missed the fact that there's a drawbridge right before the pedestal. sierra doesn't have enough actions to let it down - she has to attack the boss on turns 1 and 4 - so i might have to try also sending lionel that way, since he can reach it if he starts out in the lead position.

and i'll also have to find a good way to deal with the summoners. hopefully narron, sun, and raffin will suffice. i have one free slot that i think i'll leave to meriah, though i doubt that she can really do much. loffarl's duty is to hang back and rob witches blind.

Edited July 9, 2013 by dondon151

[MacLovin]

Top tier Bosskiller, Yoda is.

[Espinosa]

Top tier Bosskiller, Yoda is.

More like Rukuud is.

Dondon, do you think Yoda would be more helpful with Runan if Shigen has the WLv for Rukuud? He has more move than dismounted guys and innate Anti-Evil.

I wonder if Meriah could be sent together with Holmes after split 2 in order to reach promotion level. I still don't see the appeal when you don't get Aura Rain, even though Starlight is probably OHKOing DZs.

Also, does Holmes need any particular amount of strength to 4HKO the chapter 38 boss with the Master Bow?

[shadykid]

More like Rukuud is.

but seriously, what's the total turncount so far and the expected final turncount

[dondon151]

Dondon, do you think Yoda would be more helpful with Runan if Shigen has the WLv for Rukuud? He has more move than dismounted guys and innate Anti-Evil.

of course.

I wonder if Meriah could be sent together with Holmes after split 2 in order to reach promotion level. I still don't see the appeal when you don't get Aura Rain, even though Starlight is probably OHKOing DZs.

how would that help? are you assuming that morse tower isn't getting warpskipped? meriah's EXP gain when using starlight is terrible. she did gain a fair amount of EXP from chapter 24.

Also, does Holmes need any particular amount of strength to 4HKO the chapter 38 boss with the Master Bow?

base str, +1 agi, +2 wlv on base.

but seriously, what's the total turncount so far and the expected final turncount

i dunno, add it up for me =P

chapter 37 is probably the one place where mugging an earthquake earlier would have been useful.

Edited July 7, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

Shigen still has only 10 str so I have no clue if he can replicate Yoda's role in there. Since I have to replay chapter 21, I don't know how much defence Zeek will leave the party with (if I hadn't restarted the difference between my Zeek and yours would've been dramatic).

I'll probably warpskip Morse Tower as well I guess. Don't think spending extra time there will help shave off turns later. Or maybe I'll need it to compensate for the lack of a second AGI Plus on Sierra idk.

I wonder why I had the idea to mug a Death tome (a must for me because of no second AGI Plus) and even a Silver Axe but not an Earthquake in the caves. Compared to Aura Rain, EQ has an inferior Mt / accuracy though... what exactly did you want to use it for? 'cause it will probably miss a lot.

[dondon151]

shigen doesn't really need that much str depending on how much HP/def zeek has. i know that yoda's 16 str was slightly overkill. to me at least, the 15 wlv requirement is a bigger problem, because shigen requires an average of 13 level ups to gain 4 wlv on base.

i highly doubt that training in morse tower is going to give you a significantly better sierra; if you 1-turn every floor, she can still rewarp for mummy kills that give her 80 EXP, and an arch opus kill on the fourth floor will add another level on top of that.

earthquake is just insurance for chapter 37 i guess. it 2HKOs most enemies on the map. the accuracy is horrendous, though, and even a 14 skl sierra won't reach 100 base hit.

EDIT: i was just reading prelude's weapon description and it says something about being "able to oppose zahhak." is that important at all?

Edited July 7, 2013 by dondon151

[Icon of Sin]

Not really since you never fight Gwenchaos in human form yourself. He fights Eisenbach and Richard only with Zahhak before turning into Garzel.

My guess is that it's a leftover from a beta version.

[dondon151]

so i can get the seiken reeve by turn 4 and rout the DZs by turn 5, but i can't get to the summoners in time. there's just too many monsters. the fact that sierra has to glue herself to runan on turns 2 and 3 is really unfortunate. let's see if i still can't work around this, though.

having an earthquake right about now would be fantastic. i'd have to savescum a bit, but it'd make things so much easier.

Edited July 7, 2013 by dondon151

[dondon151]

okay, i can't fathom 5-turning chapter 37 without earthquake and/or plum @ city fighter. there are just way too many summons to cut through. manipulating the DZs to all go the right way is already tricky enough.

(hmm, maybe i can hack those in!)