Do people really go Dark Flyer for only Galeforce?

[Merun]

I love the Dark Flier class. They're my favorite class apart from Male Tricksters. They're perfect for hit and run tactics, as a flier with high movement and ranged attack in the form of magic.

[Chiki]

Getting Henry to C Support before Chapter 15 is actually fairly easy, particularly so if you've opened up Kjelle's or Morgan's Paralogues. And switching from Frederick to Henry allows you two units that can handle the lategame, instead of just one. Doing a no-grind run with Dark Flier Sumia/Henry instead of Falcon Knight Sumia/Frederick is both doable and fairly harmless.

I just said you can get C Henry, as well. I don't know what your argument is.

You can do it, of course, but it is not harmless in Chapter 15. Not in 23 and 24, I grant, but Sumia has crappy offense in that chapter without Frederick's S support. Henry just can't get enough dual attacks.

[Interceptor]

Anyway, pairing up Sumia with Henry in an efficiency playthrough is pretty dumb. It can work but why do it when you already have an S support? There's absolutely no reason to. Can anyone name me a good reason why?

Perhaps more importantly, would you recognize it if someone did? Evidence suggests "no", since it's already been done here in this thread, and you stubbornly insist that only the greatest thing is a valid choice, there is no shade of gray called "situationally pretty decent" that exists between aforementioned perfection and "hot garbage".

I've never seen anything come out of Interceptor's mouth (or keyboard) that isn't a personal insult or sophistry, so this post is addressed to anyone that isn't him.

You know it's funny, I was going to say something similar about your relationship with hyperbole -- seeing as how it seems that units are either amazing or they are lepers -- and this bit conveniently shows that it's not just limited to Fire Emblem.

[Vashiane]

I just said you can get C Henry, as well. I don't know what your argument is.

You can do it, of course, but it is not harmless in Chapter 15. Not in 23 and 24, I grant, but Sumia has crappy offense in that chapter without Frederick's S support. Henry just can't get enough dual attacks.

You don't have to use Sumia as a front unit for that chapter if 15 is truly that difficult - her speed should boost Henry's enough to where he can double-attack with ease.

[Folt]

I just said you can get C Henry, as well. I don't know what your argument is.

You can do it, of course, but it is not harmless in Chapter 15. Not in 23 and 24, I grant, but Sumia has crappy offense in that chapter without Frederick's S support. Henry just can't get enough dual attacks.

Actually, I have done this. Dark Knight Henry/Dark Flier Sumia with Henry in front destroyed everything that attacked them (the rest went for my other units).

[Chiki]

Actually, I have done this. Dark Knight Henry/Dark Flier Sumia with Henry in front destroyed everything that attacked them (the rest went for my other units).

Henry probably won't be promoted in an efficiency playthrough by 15. Lol.

You don't have to use Sumia as a front unit for that chapter if 15 is truly that difficult - her speed should boost Henry's enough to where he can double-attack with ease.

It's an argument against her if she can't be used as a front unit. Sumia x Frederick can, but Sumia x Henry can't. That is a point against Henry, and a point for Frederick.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Chiki

[Vashiane]

Henry probably won't be promoted in an efficiency playthrough by 15. Lol.

It's an argument against her if she can't be used as a front unit. Sumia x Frederick can, but Sumia x Henry can't. That is a point against Henry, and a point for Frederick.

Doesn't he start at level 10 when he joins though?

[Chiki]

Well, in an efficiency playthrough, which isn't going as fast as possible, I don't think it's a good idea to promote as early as you can unless you need to.

Anyway, even if Henry promoted at level 10 I seriously doubt that would be enough for Sumia to be a frontliner.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Chiki

[Interceptor]

Henry isn't a level 10 tier one unit unless you reclass him first. He starts as a level 12 Dark Mage, with variable stats based on the difficulty mode.

[Vashiane]

Well, in an efficiency playthrough, which isn't going as fast as possible, I don't think it's a good idea to promote as early as you can unless you need to.

Anyway, even if Henry promoted at level 10 I seriously doubt that would be enough for Sumia to be a frontliner.

What can I say? I'm impatient as hell. ^_^

Well, say he is a Dark Knight at that chapter - I'm sure he provides some kind of strength boost compared to initially not giving one at all, plus the already high magic boost he gives.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

+1 STR boost is laughable

[Folt]

Doesn't he start at level 10 when he joins though?

He starts at level 12, and is perfectly able to gain levels in his map if you trade him a Speed Tonic/Speedwing through Sumia when you start out. He only needs to gain 1 or 2 Speed during the map where he joins, then he can get a Speed Tonic and/or Speedwing and pair up with Sumia in subsequent chapters to kick the shit out of enemy units with a Nosferatu tome.

Incidentally, the Nosferatu tome is so that he survives going up against many many enemy units. That should get him levels during Chapter 14 or Paralogue 8 (the latter is incidentally where I got him from 14 to 20, before I even went into Chapter 14, bless all those reinforcements) and prepare him for promotion to Dark Knight, upon which point he begins his Support with Sumia and can begin on his path to shitwrecking everything. You may still need a Speed Tonic for Chapter 15, but with enough levels, he should have enough Speed to the point where he can rely on Sumia Support for the rest.

[Vashiane]

+1 STR boost is laughable

... It's seriously only one?

He starts at level 12, and is perfectly able to gain levels in his map if you trade him a Speed Tonic/Speedwing through Sumia when you start out. He only needs to gain 1 or 2 Speed during the map where he joins, then he can get a Speed Tonic and/or Speedwing and pair up with Sumia in subsequent chapters to kick the shit out of enemy units with a Nosferatu tome.

Incidentally, the Nosferatu tome is so that he survives going up against many many enemy units. That should get him levels during Chapter 14 or Paralogue 8 (the latter is incidentally where I got him from 14 to 20, before I even went into Chapter 14, bless all those reinforcements) and prepare him for promotion to Dark Knight, upon which point he begins his Support with Sumia and can begin on his path to shitwrecking everything. You may still need a Speed Tonic for Chapter 15, but with enough levels, he should have enough Speed to the point where he can rely on Sumia Support for the rest.

Mm-hmm. All it takes is a little patience and Henry can quickly lay ruin to everything that dares to touch him.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Vashiane

[Chiki]

He starts at level 12, and is perfectly able to gain levels in his map if you trade him a Speed Tonic/Speedwing through Sumia when you start out. He only needs to gain 1 or 2 Speed during the map where he joins, then he can get a Speed Tonic and/or Speedwing and pair up with Sumia in subsequent chapters to kick the shit out of enemy units with a Nosferatu tome.

Incidentally, the Nosferatu tome is so that he survives going up against many many enemy units. That should get him levels during Chapter 14 or Paralogue 8 (the latter is incidentally where I got him from 14 to 20, before I even went into Chapter 14, bless all those reinforcements) and prepare him for promotion to Dark Knight, upon which point he begins his Support with Sumia and can begin on his path to shitwrecking everything. You may still need a Speed Tonic for Chapter 15, but with enough levels, he should have enough Speed to the point where he can rely on Sumia Support for the rest.

Come on. That level of favoritism isn't assumed in efficiency playthroughs unless it really is helpful. It isn't. Sumia and Frederick get the job done fine.

[Interceptor]

... It's seriously only one?

It's not even +1 unless you're in Lunatic or he procced STR on level-up. Dark Knight gives no class STR from Pair-up, so you just get the 10/20/30 stat bonuses. Edited May 29, 2013 by Interceptor

[Vashiane]

Come on. That level of favoritism isn't assumed in efficiency playthroughs unless it really is helpful. It isn't. Sumia and Frederick get the job done fine.

Not everyone plays for efficiency though - I sure as hell don't. ; ]

I've used Sumia and Frederick several times over now and I certainly wouldn't mind doing something a tad bit different, even if it shakes up my standard format for a bit. I'll take a little short-term inefficiency for something new and profitable, especially since out of the two pegasus knights, Sumia's the only one truly worth making a Dark Flier.

[Folt]

Come on. That level of favoritism isn't assumed in efficiency playthroughs unless it really is helpful. It isn't. Sumia and Frederick get the job done fine.

It wasn't really favoritism so much as me not knowing about all those reinforcements showing up and constantly attacking Nosferatu!Henry while I moved my units upwards to the chests and boss.

Though I have to admit, that strategy went pretty well, as it kept me from being overwhelmed.

[Tamanoir]

...But doesn't Frederick have better wife ? Beside, I'm guessing you'll want to pair Sumia with Chrom in efficient playthrough, making this argument moot....

Frederick X Lissa is probably far more wanted, for example. They can pair up on the first chapter, and Lissa needs the help Freddy offers her badly. Owayn is also really happy of the Strength and defense boost Fred gives him.

Anyway, yeah Dark Flier is pretty awesome, Henry is an awesome husband for mixed Child.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Frederick, when it comes to non min maxing only really want the Pegasus and MAYBE Sully

And when it comes to min maxing, Frederick is the best for like..... Cordelia and Cherche, and a fine one for Sumia

Also you CAN Pair Sumia x Chrom and uses Sumia x Fred and does reasonably well

[Folt]

Frederick x Panne can make a decent Berserker!Yarne as well.

[Donnel]

So, Henry joined in chapter..... 13?

13 - Support Rank in Chapter 13. Lol

14 - Does jack. Maybe get C Rank here

15 - Unreliable C Rank for a pretty annoying chapter. If theres any chapter where you want a consistent Dual Strikes, its this one

16 - This chapter is a joke. Maybe gets B here

17 - BK Frederick > Henry

18 - Standard chapter in general. A Rank.

19 - BK Frederick

20 - Henry started the lead here

Uhhh thats not exactly good

<13 Bench Frederick after 4, soaking all exp to Avatar

Henry joined in chapter 13?

13 - Support Rank in Chapter 13.

13.1 - Exponential Growth

13.2 - Exponential Growth

13.3 - Exponential Growth

13.4 - Summer Scramble

13.5 - Summer Scramble

13.6 - Summer Scramble

13.7 - Summer Scramble

13.8 - Summer Scramble

14 - S Rank

15 - Play Sumia (Dark Flier) x Henry Because I WANT TO.

Sumia with other support all done previously, and because it is plain, and plain is BORING. Lunatic+ is luck based and stupid, not interesting.

Sumia - Celica's Gale, Galeforce, Dual Guard+, Miracle, Iote's Shield, Limit breaker

Henry - Waste, Lucky Seven, Gamble, Aggressor, Res+10, Limit breaker

I just fully grind all my 1st gen characters even before starting on 2nd gen. It's fun to see all of your characters have LB.

I don't like Frederick because we're already forced to use him for the starting chapters.

[Chiki]

No one really cares if you can grind well.

[shadykid]

what the hell did I just read

[Donnel]

That is to say children are useless, since they join in late. Aside of Morgan, Lucina, Nah, all the rest of the children need grinding.

Anyway, Henry x Sumia is special, while Frederick x Sumia is overkill and waste of defense growth.

For speed run I'll pair Chrom x Sumia, if FeMu takes Chrom, then Sumia x Fred maybe considered.

Fred is just plain boring, that as much as a grinder like me, don't even bother of using him.

[Folt]

You don't need to grind to get Henry up to speed. As a Dark Mage, he can down a Speed Tonic and use a Nosferatu Tome or two, then park him among heaps of units (together with Sumia to build up Supports and take advantage of pair-up bonuses) to rack up the levels.