Nicolas Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Hi! Last time I read this forum and I found this topic. Yeah, I agreed he is not good character like Raven or Priscilla( IMO they are the best of physical/magical units), but 2/10? That's joke? Just check his stats and compare this with this! OK, his speed sucks, but 14 speed(you Wallace will get it if you have enough luck, and speedwings) it's enough to double attack to almost all enemy(without swordmaster, myrmidon hero and mercs with not-steel sword). He with steel lance kill many non-promoted unit with single attack. I'm know he is not great unit, but 2/10? He should get 4/10(and even +0.5 with cool personality). So what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 oswin comes like 17 chapters earlier yeah also if wallace isn't promoted in his join chapter in hhm he's pretty much doomed, and geitz is a far better unit anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djeets Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 i would give him 3.5/10 due to the fact he had nice defense, HP and decent str, the rest are low stats and the fact that he was late pre-promotes, he was totally almost useless,, probably used him for extra walls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 The problem is that Wallace needs to cap his level to even have 14 speed with a Speedwings; both are wasted investments (especially that experience you have to stop to accumulate). With 8 speed, he's about as slow as your Dorcas or Bartre if you train these two, and is immobile/difficult to carry around. And then there's his recruitment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 At level 20/1 he should get 10 speed (look at average stats) what isn't bad and his recruiting is pretty easy when you have Kent as Paladin. It's also easy way to gain experience for him: palce him in the western bridge on the "Cog of destiny" equip with steel lance and just wait. Only hero will get him any damage, so he don't need anyone other for support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 At level 20/1 he should get 10 speed (look at average stats) sorry dude, wallace has at most 8 spd at --/1 because either 1. you played lyn mode and you probably used the knight crest on wallace like you're supposed to so he has 8 spd (but most players here would use the knight crest on sain, which leaves wallace unpromoted in the main game - even worse!) 2. you didn't play lyn mode and wallace has 8 spd 10 spd doubles enemies in chapter 25, but very few enemies after that. 8 spd doesn't even double most enemies in chapter 25. It's also easy way to gain experience for him: palce him in the western bridge on the "Cog of destiny" equip with steel lance and just wait. Only hero will get him any damage, so he don't need anyone other for support. or you can beat the map faster and more easily with almost anyone else i don't remember what i gave wallace in my rating topic but it was something like 0/10 or 1/10. he's so, so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) Aside from the aforementioned problem of being outclassed by Oswin, who comes earlier, Wallace also forces you to go to a fog of war map to get him (not to mention depriving you of the chance to recruit Geitz, who's better). Edited June 4, 2013 by Levant Fortner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 LTC players go to wallace's map now because it can be 2-turned but you obviously can't get wallace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 LTC players go to wallace's map now because it can be 2-turned but you obviously can't get wallace He's not somebody you'd really miss though; unlike, say, Farina or Lucius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) He's not somebody you'd really miss though; unlike, say, Farina or Lucius. Farina's more of a filler flier, and she costs quite a bit of gold. Not to mention she costs a few turns, and Heath, Fiora, and Florina are already doing her job. Though the killer lance would've been nice to have, she's not really someone I'd miss unless she was the only flier I drafted in a draft other than say, Vaida. Lucius's C staff rank upon promotion is pretty rad, yeah. On topic: Wallace is a brilliant character. But he's a horrible unit. Though, I'll never forget the first time I considered seriously using him, he scored a perfect level. Edited June 4, 2013 by Zeem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Jim Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) This is going to get painful. It's a well known fact that Wallace is one of the worst playable units in this game, and for a variety of reasons that other people here may or may have not covered: - His recruitment. Wallace is gotten in a map with FoW and a moving swordmaster boss. Yeah... I'd much rather go to Linus's map and get Geitz, thanks. Even if I were to go to that other map, Wallace is damn near impossible to recruit since he's in the attack radius of an iron ballista that does 12/34 HP damage to him(assuming he promoted in Lyn's mode). Combined with the large amount of monks and myrmidons that will be chipping away at his HP, and you will find that he will die before you can get to him, more often than not. And just to pour salt on an already gangrenous wound, that map can be beaten in 2 turns. - His bases. Oh god his bases. Here are 12/1 Wallace's base stats, and a base level Hawkeye for the sake of comparison. Name Level HP SM SK SP LK DF RS Wallace 12/01 34 15 9 8 10 17 5 Hawkeye --/04 50 18 14 11 13 14 10 As one can see, Wallace has pretty bad stats for the point in the game he joins. Speed wise, he has 8 AS, which fails to double around 80% of Chapter 25(he gets only really, really weighed down enemies). He's 2HKOing(26 atk with steel axe cleanly 2HKOs everything outside of the warrior and Pascal), but so is Hawkeye, and Hawkeye actually doubles things(he also has 3 more str). As far as durability is concerned, 34HP/17def is 6RKO'd by the strongest unpromoted physical enemies in Chapter 25. While I'd consider this quite good, it isn't anything special as Hawkeye has similar durability(in fact, it's superior as he's not as likely to get his ass doubled by promoted enemies(as an example, wyvern lords will double Wallace, but not Hawkeye)). P.S: Dondon, I remember you giving Wallace a 0 in your unit ratings thread. Just wanted to remind you. Edited June 5, 2013 by General James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I used him in my HHM pre-promoted units only run. He took a while to get up to speed, but he tanked well enough. I'll say he's ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 he's "ok", but outclassed by almost every other unit you can get. BUt then again, 2 speedwings and the brave lance and then you get something that ORKOs things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Manic Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 He should get a 1.5 for -.5 personality. Anyone spouting bullshit about seeing someone's character through their eyes should lose points in the personality department. "Is he THAT bad?" By comparison to most other units you can use, yes. He's still usable, sure, but if the scale is how good/bad he is to other units in the game, he is that bad. If the scale is against the enemies in the game, he might not be THAT bad, but he's still doing worse than plenty of other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamanoir Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 His main problem is his re-recruitment chapter who cames far too late, and requires you to have underleveled Lords. Besides, Geitz is far better. If he came back with the others Caelin Soldiers, he will be decent, but here he is more a punishment for bad players. He's a cool dude, but he's honnestly not that great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 hey at least he's not as bad as Nino. He doesn't get ORKO'd trying to use a decent weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamanoir Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 hey at least he's not as bad as Nino. He doesn't get ORKO'd trying to use a decent weapon. Nino is a mage. It's entirely possible to have her go to level 20 promoted in ch26x, believe me, and she will ends up being pretty good. Is it tedious ? Does it takes 200+ turns ? Is Pent far better with less investment ? Yes to both. But she can hide besides a tanky unit and cheaps damage from afar. Besides, Nino doesn't needs you to have good character unpromoted to be used. So, the question is, How many babying do both needs ? Are they worth it ? Nino neds extreme babying, but she becomes at least a good unit. Wallace needs less babying, but become just decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 but he becomes decent for a longer time than nino is "good". well, Oswin is loved for his being bro in the earlygame. Erk is nice because of LHM and earlygame. Pent needs no training and comes with A staves. Prissy comes on a horse and is going to warp. Nino requires alot of babying and kinda turns into a slightly better Erk with less con. Wallace turns into a slightly better wallace with less con. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 What sort of problems does Nino help resolve even assuming all that tedious effort grinding her up though? She's got no useful staves or anything, but I guess you could make the case that you grind for Warp access as well. All the useful things Pent does lategame have to do with his staff rank. 6 move is low, no flight is bad and bosses are all pretty magically durable. At least you can make the same case for Lilina (you've got serious issues connecting attacks on bosses and Rutger could always get critted which some players dislike the possibility of existing), but also with a lot of rigorous grinding, and some favouritism in getting resources like the robe and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamanoir Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 but he becomes decent for a longer time than nino is "good". well, Oswin is loved for his being bro in the earlygame. Erk is nice because of LHM and earlygame. Pent needs no training and comes with A staves. Prissy comes on a horse and is going to warp. Nino requires alot of babying and kinda turns into a slightly better Erk with less con. Wallace turns into a slightly better wallace with less con. I think you want to say "more" here.... How hard is it to train Wallace actually ? Can he survives well against ennemy ? Does he have to be promoted to survive ? Wallace's low point are also the charcter recruitment, which is kinda counterproductive. I know that Nino is absolutely useless if you want to play somewhat efficiently, because the amount of ressources consacred to a single character is abolutely insane. Everyn other mage will do slightly less good, but with investment absolutely inferior; Pent can replace a RNG Screwed Erk immediately. Priscy go Horse and High Staves rank. What sort of problems does Nino help resolve even assuming all that tedious effort grinding her up though? She's got no useful staves or anything, but I guess you could make the case that you grind for Warp access as well. All the useful things Pent does lategame have to do with his staff rank. 6 move is low, no flight is bad and bosses are all pretty magically durable. At least you can make the same case for Lilina (you've got serious issues connecting attacks on bosses and Rutger could always get critted which some players dislike the possibility of existing), but also with a lot of rigorous grinding, and some favouritism in getting resources like the robe and stuff. I'm not trying to prove Nino is good. I'm trying to determine if she is better or worse than Wallace, because that was the point Aquaman made. I know a lot about Nino's training, and can admiy fully that she isn't realy worse the investment, except if you love Shiny numbers. Her High Attack is kinda null when she have to be Thunder-Locked to be able to double. However, I never really tried to train Wallace, so I want to jknow if he is more usable. You have to sacrifice your endgame on hr to makes Nino good, but you have to sacrifice training your Lords, and a potential better character for Wallace. The question i which one cost much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) However, I never really tried to train Wallace, so I want to know if he is more usable. The most painful is first four, or five level, because before it he wouldn't have enough STR to OHKO many enemies and wouldn't have enough speed to double attack. Fortunately on level when he is possible to recruit it's arena. After that good place for training him is on "cog of destiny" when he schould stay on the western bridge and wait equip with steel lance. When he will be at 20/3 he won't take damage from physical enemy and a little form magical and he should have ~20 STR, what mean he will 2HKO all non-boss unit with steel lance. So even if he has low movement he still can be useful. Only reason to don't use him is tired training which he need. PS: I give him boots and speedwings what make him awesome! Edited June 5, 2013 by Nicolas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 The most painful is first four, or five level, because before it he wouldn't have enough STR to OHKO many enemies and wouldn't have enough speed to double attack. Fortunately on level when he is possible to recruit it's arena. After that good place for training him is on "cog of destiny" when he schould stay on the western bridge and wait equip with steel lance. When he will be at 20/3 he won't take damage from physical enemy and a little form magical and he should have ~20 STR, what mean he will 2HKO all non-boss unit with steel lance. So even if he has low movement he still can be useful. Only reason to don't use him is tired training which he need. PS: I give him boots and he was awesome! >Wallace >Arena lolno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamanoir Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 >Wallace >Arena lolno Yeah, Knight/General takes ton of Damage and get doubled by everyone. Even an Arena Abuser likes me know it's a bad idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Yeah, Knight/General takes ton of Damage and get doubled by everyone. Even an Arena Abuser likes me know it's a bad idea... Yeah, Wallace training is tiding even if you like his so much as me... He is not really good unit, but for me good enough to beat many chapter of campaign. But, guys 2/10? He should get 4/10! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) Yeah, Wallace training is tiding even if you like his so much as me... He is not really good unit, but for me good enough to beat many chapter of campaign. But, guys 2/10? He should get 4/10! Yeah, let's go and ignore the fact that Oswin does everything Wallace can do better and for longer, and that Wallace forces me to sacrifice the chance to recruit a better unit! /sarcasm mode ...Actually, I don't think I even needed to drag Oswin into this since, well, FE7 enemies are just plain horrid. Edited June 5, 2013 by Levant Fortner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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