Skill Vs. Skill thread rounds 10-14

[Klokinator]

How about Indoor Fighter VS Outdoor Fighter? Both suck but maybe one is more useful than the other?

[Shadow Mir]

How about Indoor Fighter VS Outdoor Fighter? Both suck but maybe one is more useful than the other?

I'd expect a blowout in Outdoor Fighter's favor.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Outdoor fighter does not suck

You have 3 Unit who started as Cavs(one prepromote) while.... only 2 Knight, 1 being from a paralogue

And then 80% of the maps in this game are outdoor, so saying ODF sucks is almost the same as saying Quick Burn sucked

[Airship Canon]

How about Indoor Fighter VS Outdoor Fighter? Both suck but maybe one is more useful than the other?

Neither would/should dominate... Hard.

Although, if it's a "Have to choose", it's Outdoor, why? 1. Apo is an Outdoor map. (Although, like I said, Neither would dominate, because why would you use one of those at Apo?) 2. There's A LOT More Outdoor Maps otherwise.

Still a terrible skill all around.

[Melonhead]

How about Indoor Fighter VS Outdoor Fighter? Both suck but maybe one is more useful than the other?

Was thinking about it, but they are both terrible skills. There are many more outdoor maps anyway..

Aptitude: Adds 20% to all growth rates during Level Ups. Villager Lv. 1

Paragon: Experience gain x2. Paragon Item

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I'm gonna vote Aptitude, because it actually helps bad growth rates, so a character is more likely to get better stats at a corresponding level.

[Klokinator]

Level up quicker, can be combined with Veteran for 3x experience gain, no way I'm choosing anything but Paragon. Also if we're looking at availability, isn't Aptitude literally locked to like 5 characters? Paragon can be given to any and all units so I think it's more useful at any stage of the game. Plus it's not like there's a level cap, reclass to your heart's delight.

[BlueFire]

I prefer Paragon to get skills quicker.

[shadowofchaos]

In postgame, Paragon wins unquestioningly. You're going to be maxing out stats anyway after that, and after you hit that Internal Level cap, Paragon will save you from tedious "for skill" level grinding in the long run.

Not to mention, in higher difficulties, Donny/Donnel is a freaking pain to train and isn't worth it.

[Ema Skye]

Paragon.

Will be surprised if this isn't a blowout.

[Thor Odinson]

Mathematically on average leveling up twice with the high growths of FE13 would give you better results than one level with 20% extras

Donnel's a pain in the ass to use unless you grind or at least baby the fuck out of him which is only likely to happen on below-Lunatic difficulties nogrind donnel on lunatic I wish you luck man it's probably doable but so very very painful and turtly and not worth it you might as well not

Considering that if you're grinding you're likely to want to grab some skills along the way and by the time you've gone through all 4-6 T2 classes (as far as non-MU gen1s are concerned) you're probably capped in most of your important stats anyways so whatever

Paragon wins also everyone can have it

Edited June 11, 2013 by Thor Odinson

[Klokinator]

Also all units with aptitude come with it, so you may as well slap Aptitude and Paragon on the same unit anyway.

[Airship Canon]

Paragon Unlimited availability (compared to Donnel, and his sons (because, really who passes Aptitude)), and readily available at Ch11-12, hell you could farm it out on every playable at Ch5 using Spotpass Arvis-- hell, that even works on Lunatic(+) as a throwaway if you want.

It's effect is crazy good though.

Let's take 1000 EXP, and a Unit with a 50% Growth and compare the skills:

Paragon: 1000 EXP (x2): 20 Levels. Average Growth on that is 10 points in [stat]

Aptitude: 1000 EXP: 10 Levels, 70% growth yields 7 average points in that stat, whatever stat that is.

It makes skill grinding a lot easier too.

EDIT: It'd take a growth of less than 20% for Aptitude to be superior FOR GROWTH, which means only 1 unit in the entire game can actually have it be better than Paragon for a stat (FYI: That's Donnel!Gerome, and only for RES, and only if he's not grabbing Miracle or Renewal, or Dreadding it up, BTW.)

Edited June 11, 2013 by Airship Canon

[Tamanoir]

@Airship Cannon : Thanks for that... Well, I'll argue that it's approximately equal at a 30% growth, but that's still not significant enough...
paragon win here, but obviously, the right answer is both...

[Airship Canon]

@Airship Cannon : Thanks for that... Well, I'll argue that it's approximately equal at a 30% growth, but that's still not significant enough...

paragon win here, but obviously, the right answer is both...

It's literally breaks even at 20%.

Paragon in a way doubles growths, because you get twice as many levels out of the same amount of EXP.

At 20% Growth...

1000 EXP, you get 10 levels. Which amounts to 2 points in the stat on average.

1000 EXP x2, you get 20 levels. Which amounts to 4 points in the stat on average.

1000 EXP, but the growth rate is increased by 20%, which amounts to 40%, you still only get 10 levels, but it's now up to 4 points in the stat on average.

Below that value, the Paragon would be weaker for Growth alone than Aptitude, but above it, the Aptitude is weaker.

The only growths that matter (Not Mag on a Physical locked unit) and are -that- bad amounts to RES.

And the catch to that, in a case where Aptitude could be involved, there's still Dread Fighter (worst I could calculate for a girl with Apti is Donnel!Kjelle!Morgan (with +STR,-RES) who has a 22% RES growth in a good chunk of her classes, and gets up to 32% in Troub/Valky), which in all likelihood has a better class growth than even Valkyrie, which'd negate the issue anyways

In case you don't care for the math: Get Paragon. Use Paragon. Love Paragon. It's the most broken utility skill in the game (Utility Skill: Manages Resources: Armsthrift, Paragon, Despoil, Veteran, Aptitude), and accomplishes way more than any other utility skill, and is available on everyone. Europe, cry that you don't have Paragon yet.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Airship Canon

[Tamanoir]

It's literally breaks even at 20%.

Paragon in a way doubles growths, because you get twice as many levels out of the same amount of EXP.

At 20% Growth...

1000 EXP, you get 10 levels. Which amounts to 2 points in the stat on average.

1000 EXP x2, you get 20 levels. Which amounts to 4 points in the stat on average.

1000 EXP, but the growth rate is increased by 20%, which amounts to 40%, you still only get 10 levels, but it's now up to 4 points in the stat on average.

Below that value, the Paragon would be weaker for Growth alone than Aptitude, but above it, the Aptitude is weaker.

The only growths that matter (Not Mag on a Physical locked unit) and are -that- bad amounts to RES.

And the catch to that, in a case where Aptitude could be involved, there's still Dread Fighter (worst I could calculate for a girl with Apti is Donnel!Kjelle!Morgan (with +STR,-RES) who has a 22% RES growth in a good chunk of her classes, and gets up to 32% in Troub/Valky), which in all likelihood has a better class growth than even Valkyrie, which'd negate the issue anyways

In case you don't care for the math: Get Paragon. Use Paragon. Love Paragon. It's the most broken utility skill in the game (Utility Skill: Manages Resources: Armsthrift, Paragon, Despoil, Veteran, Aptitude), and accomplishes way more than any other utility skill, and is available on everyone. Europe, cry that you don't have Paragon yet.

I can''t use it yet, because Europe. I do plan to abuse it when I got it, though...

It's just that due to the way experience gain works, it isn't as easy as 1000 EXP vs 2000 EXP. When battling the same numnetr of ennemies, the Paragon users should gain slightly less Exp. I don't know how big the difference is, but it still exists. This is why I gave the arbitrary number of 30%, when it can be in fact more 25%

Why am I debating with someone I mostly agree with ?

[Folt]

Paragon by far. Getting more experience and more levels (which amounts to more proc chances) is preferable to 4 more stats on average.

[The Fush]

I haven't obtained paragon yet, but if it increases exp more, than I'm already sold, no matter how monstrous Aptitude is (though I'd say it's a close match).

[Inference]

If Veteran is unfair on a unit with below average growths (Avatar), what does that make Paragon? Armageddon, that's what.

[BlueFire]

If Veteran is unfair on a unit with below average growths (Avatar), what does that make Paragon? Armageddon, that's what.

Well you get Veteran right off the bat on a unit that has other outstanding features.

[Robinigo]

Paragon gives easy Exp which eases the pain of grinding, aptitude just gives donnel magic and Laurent strength.

Paragon wins.

[Melonhead]

I'll try to make this one less..obvious. (I derped on the last one)

I'd also like to note I'm running out of ideas, so ideas would well, be appreciated.

Rally Spectrum:All Stats +4 to all allies within a 3 tile radius for one Turn when the Rally command is used. Grandmaster Lv. 15

All stats +2: All stats +2. All stats +2 item.

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I say Rally Spectrum, as it can give multiple units a greater effect. Still, with allstats+2 you can go anywhere, and is basically a solid bonus.

[Airship Canon]

What the-!?

I don't even know how you'd compare them.

They're nothing alike, and while they both accomplish the task of buffing your Stats, you use them in totally different manners.

Rally Spect is overall stronger, but at the same time you only need it on 1 unit that should have other Rally skills.

All+2 is filler and good for support units because it has the effect of increasing Accuracy and Damage while not leading.

[Klokinator]

Rally spectrum because you can buff like 10 units at once (Actually probably closer to 15, I haven't done the math?) with twice the amount the All Stats +2 gives. A better comparison is LB versus Rally Spectrum and Rally Heart combined lolololool

[Airship Canon]

Rally spectrum because you can buff like 10 units at once (Actually probably closer to 15, I haven't done the math?) with twice the amount the All Stats +2 gives. A better comparison is LB versus Rally Spectrum and Rally Heart combined lolololool

(LB stomps)

24 (1-3-5-6 (rally user doesn't count)-5-3-1), but you can actually buff 48 (in theory) because Rallies hit both units in a Pair Up.

Guess what? You can't deploy that many units ever.

[Thor Odinson]

Rally Spectrum. Only takes up the rallier's skill slot and is actually a thing on nogrind runs. All Stat+2 don't to be redone every turn but it takes up a skill slot that could go towards something more useful, and it only has half the stats RS gives. Also wouldn't exist in nogrind.