SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Jotari]

There's a significant part of the western world that feels they're entitled to a lot more than they have when we westerners already have far more than the large majority of the world's population.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

The only reason why I hate Sakurai is because he's horrible with competitive and some other minor decisions. Nerfing Greninja too much is just an example. Another one is teh Smash Tour, they seriously could have had better modes to put in. Like an adventure mode they did in Melee. And a second CPU appearing during For Glory practice mode before a match (Wtf).

Apart from that, I'm proud to have been riding Sakurai's wild ride.

[solrocknroll]

Eh... as a guy who lurked (I seem to do that a lot) Smashboards from the moment SSB4 was announced to the Wii U version release, I think I can compare this complaint to the "elitism" in the FE fanbase.

X person doesn't like Brawl and SSB4 for reasons, people act like it's a personal attack on all things they hold sacred, argument gets heated, then descends into verbal warfare.

Am I going to deny that Reddit and Gamefaqs have their fair share of jerks? Nope.

But really, I see significantly more veteran-hate than actual elitism. People have taken how a few jerks behaved online and made it into a full-blown stereotype of the entire competitive Smash Bros. community. Though stereotypes hold an inkling of truth, it's only an inkling.

Also, that thread title seems to have been plucked straight from quite a few comments on Shoryuken.com (yet another place I lurk).

lol

Pretty sure that Melee elitists and FE elitists exist. Those who lambaste Awakening and Fates for petty things and those who hate everything that's not Melee are complete elitists.

fe elitists are the absolute worst though

I mean, blah blah the series is different and slightly more fanservicy but who even cares. I'm going to continue playing them whether people want to cry death of the franchise or not.

[Comet]

melee "elitist" here

i don't like the other games as much bcause they don't fulfill my criteria for an enjoyable game. i don't hate everything that isn't melee, i dislike (much better word) games that aren't as entertaining in my opinion. same is true for nearly all other "elitists". the only reason people see arguments all the time between this is because the smash games have almost nothing in common in terms of game mechanics, yet they are often gerouped together. another big thing is that to a melee fan, one of the other games will be comparatively trash, if that helps anybody understand.

same thing can be said for anybody that prefers older games in a series or what not.

and the other guy wasn't denying that elitists exist.

"petty" is subjective. brawl is nearly unplayable to me, but others can play it and have fun and i won't judge them for that.

and almost everyone says a certain group of elitists are awful and stuff which is not a good thing to say since it encourages people to not like you and other people that say anything. alienating them from the base to make them less likely to get into what you like also isn't good.

Edited November 24, 2015 by PichuMaster3000

[Knife]

no, the thread already had enough complaining

I would hate for you to put that much trouble in response to something I made as an offhand half-joke

Ok. Next time I hear complaining about complaining, I will be triggered and nothing will be the same.

Elitists are fine, usually the people complaining about them are in the wrong. Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Knife

[euklyd]

elitists are fine I agree

being hostile and bashing other games / opinions without provocation isn't, but none of the elitists here really do that

I think

[solrocknroll]

Are you people actually justifying elitism

Elitist people are awful. They act like everything new is bad.

For instance, people destroying the newer Fire Emblems for minute reasons.

Although, I can't even fathom why anyone would prefer Melee.

The gameplay is overwhelmingly heavy and quick. It's like Marvel vs. Capcom level of chaotic.

Wavedashing ruined the meta game and should never return. Anything that looks like that is obviously a glitch or exploit. Whether Sakurai left it in or not doesn't matter. From what we know of Melee's development, it was rushed in the first place.

The stages are completely boring. You have stuff like Temple and there's no variety. Nothing stands out aside from Onett and Fourside and even they are inferior Mother stages to Magicant.

There's like no characters. The game needs more anything character related. The only reason for me to ever go back is Pichu. Brawl has Subspace and Pokemon Trainer.

The game has a complete content void. The game has 26 boring characters. All my favorites were introduced in this game and Brawl.

In fact, I've loved every newcomer this game has presented from Villager to Cloud. Even stuff like Wii Fit Trainer and Miis are cool. I actually question why anyone would even oppose them. Oh wait, "hardcore" people are mad that series like Wii Fit, Duck Hunt, and Animal Crossing get characters over their precious titles. I got Animal Crossing, Final Fantasy, and Xenoblade, some of my favorite series ever, from this game alone. The only thing this game lacks is more Kirby characters. Kirby needs to be all consuming

also lol donkey kong

[Elieson]

The amount of personal bias is strong. How do you prattle on about Elitism being the bane of all things acceptable and then yammer on about how everything post melee is essentially all that's worth playing, unless you want a "boring experience"?

There's having a preference and there's elitism, and you're exhibiting more of the latter, I'd say.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Apparently, there's more to Samus than I thought. And by I mean 'More to', I mean the bad things. Her tilts and other moves extend her hurt boxes.

Like, sure, realistically that's how it works when you stick your leg out to kick, but it's pretty unfair for a side tilt to extend hurt box and then actually make it grab-able and unsafe to use in a fighting game, especially since the sourspot actually does next to nothing on low % and you actually get punished for attacking someone. My opponent could get up, go make a sandwich, comeback, take a bite and still punish with whatever.

Then I found this... and cried... She ain't Prime.

[Jedi]

Are you people actually justifying elitism

Elitist people are awful. They act like everything new is bad.

For instance, people destroying the newer Fire Emblems for minute reasons.

Although, I can't even fathom why anyone would prefer Melee.

Its funny because you're being way more elitist than the people who you are criticizing.

[kingddd]

speaking of new title, Elite Beat Agents/Divas were the number one trios I wanted back in Brawl. I have sunk so many hours into that game and it's still my number 1 DS game of all time.

[Water Mage]

Apparently, there's more to Samus than I thought. And by I mean 'More to', I mean the bad things. Her tilts and other moves extend her hurt boxes.

Like, sure, realistically that's how it works when you stick your leg out to kick, but it's pretty unfair for a side tilt to extend hurt box and then actually make it grab-able and unsafe to use in a fighting game, especially since the sourspot actually does next to nothing on low % and you actually get punished for attacking someone. My opponent could get up, go make a sandwich, comeback, take a bite and still punish with whatever.

Then I found this... and cried... She ain't Prime.

Isn't ironic that both Samus and Zelda are low tier, but their alter-egos are high tier?

I wonder how the feeling of beong high tier and low tier at the same time must be.

[The DanMan]

Isn't ironic that both Samus and Zelda are low tier, but their alter-egos are high tier?

I wonder how the feeling of beong high tier and low tier at the same time must be.

I actually made the joke when they were first revealed that "Now nobody has to bother selecting Samus or Zelda anymore".

Boy, that seems like it couldn't have been much more true.

[Jotari]

It's a shame since in canon Samus is probably in like the top 5 most powerful Smash fighters.

[Comet]

i'm just going to comment about the wavedashing thing since everything else was absurd (not that this wasn't, i just didn't find it as absurd as the other stuff). you can argue about it being a glitch or not all day, but it affects the game in a positive way by giving movement options. if smash 4 had more mivement options to keep the pace up and make more options viable, then it would be more interesting imo.

elitism in favor of new things is also be a thing btw

that video made me sad.

Edited November 26, 2015 by PichuMaster3000

[solrocknroll]

i'm just going to comment about the wavedashing thing since everything else was absurd (not that this wasn't, i just didn't find it as absurd as the other stuff). you can argue about it being a glitch or not all day, but it affects the game in a positive way by giving movement options. if smash 4 had more mivement options to keep the pace up and make more options viable, then it would be more interesting imo.

elitism in favor of new things is also be a thing btw

that video made me sad.

lol

Wave dashing is a scourge on Melee. Sakurai justifiably removed in Brawl, and it's still gone. It looks insane and it only helps few characters. Melee's metagame is also even more broken than 4's. Not even Zelda and Samus are as awful as Ness, Bowser, and Kirby, and to say nothing of Smash's only real joke character. Anyone campaigning for wavedashing needs to wake up. Your hideous "movement option" ruins the look of any competitive Melee match. There's movement, and then there's complete nonsense. Not even tripping is as nonsensical as wavedashing. It may have had a negative effect on Brawl, but at least it didn't look like wavedashing.

Wavedashing is an awful glitch. I'd take rolls a the only movement over airdashing toward the ground. Woah, that's so cool. I'm just glad that air dodging is the way it is now. Now you won't automatically die just by pressing it near the stage. I also despise the fact that you could only grab a ledge by facing it. Ugh, Melee's mechanics were all broken, unpolished garbage. Not only that, but people say that Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit are bad, how about Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Falco, Pichu, Roy, and Young Link. People say that there's Kid Icarus bias? Mario and Zelda got at least 3 newcomers both. Don't make me laugh people.

EDIT: Also, to say nothing of the awful graphics. I'd like to see someone justify Melee Yoshi and Mewtwo.

Not only that, but G&W, Ice Climber, and Fire Emblem were the ONLY series. No anything else? Not to mention how Kirby got completely screwed.

In addition, there's also how they chose the worst games for some series. Zelda II and Majora's Mask? The worst Zeldas? No Fire Emblem stage? Two Great Fox stages? Poke Floats over something real? Onett and Fourside yet nothing quirky from EarthBound like Saturn Valley or Dalaam?

Edited November 26, 2015 by Freyjadour

[Florete]

Apparently, there's more to Samus than I thought. And by I mean 'More to', I mean the bad things. Her tilts and other moves extend her hurt boxes.

Like, sure, realistically that's how it works when you stick your leg out to kick, but it's pretty unfair for a side tilt to extend hurt box and then actually make it grab-able and unsafe to use in a fighting game, especially since the sourspot actually does next to nothing on low % and you actually get punished for attacking someone. My opponent could get up, go make a sandwich, comeback, take a bite and still punish with whatever.

Then I found this... and cried... She ain't Prime.

A lot of characters extend their hurt boxes during attacks. That's pretty normal.

Zelda II and Majora's Mask? The worst Zeldas?

Lol.

Here you were with mostly reasonable complaints and then you say something like this.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Red Fox of Fire

[Zerosabers]

EDIT: Also, to say nothing of the awful graphics. I'd like to see someone justify Melee Yoshi and Mewtwo.

Not only that, but G&W, Ice Climber, and Fire Emblem were the ONLY series. No anything else? Not to mention how Kirby got completely screwed.

In addition, there's also how they chose the worst games for some series. Zelda II and Majora's Mask? The worst Zeldas? No Fire Emblem stage? Two Great Fox stages? Poke Floats over something real? Onett and Fourside yet nothing quirky from EarthBound like Saturn Valley or Dalaam?

There are a lot of people that absolutely love Majora's Mask and Zelda II. Don't try and speak for everyone, just because you don't like them doesn't automatically make them the worst.

[Jave]

Zelda II is awesome.

Flawed, but awesome.

Screw the haters.

[Kiseki]

Okay, I haven't been here for how long and this is what I come back here for? Come on, guys. We all have opinions, whether it'd be nice or not. Enough with bashing the other person's opinion already, it's literally making this thread more dull and repetitive than it already is.

Sure, we've got a few "elitists" here, but I can guarantee you they're nowhere near as toxic as the elitists you see elsewhere.

Then I found this... and cried... She ain't Prime.

Some of the stuff here's already been patched. Specifically her N-Air and some other things.

[Jotari]

Zelda II is awesome.

Flawed, but awesome.

Screw the haters.

To get completely off topic, what flaws does Zelda II have. Aside from obviously being a piece of media and therefore subjective to personal opinion. I mean what glaring design flaws does the game have?

[solrocknroll]

I don't hate Majora's Mask, but I don't like it nearly as much as any other. I mean, when you have tough competition like Wind Waker, LttP, Link's Awakening, Skyward Sword, and Twilight Princess, it's hard for me to like it as much. I don't care for Zelda 1 or OoT that much, but they were at least revolutionary. I'd have to give them that.

Though obviously CDI is worse. Guess I forgot them.

[Zerosabers]

To get completely off topic, what flaws does Zelda II have. Aside from obviously being a piece of media and therefore subjective to personal opinion. I mean what glaring design flaws does the game have?

I think what most people complain about is the difficulty of it combined with having a set number of lives. The game is probably one of the hardest I've ever played and when you only have three tries before having to go all the way back to start unless you pick up little one ups shaped like Link.

Unfortunately you're going to want to save most of those for the final dungeon since that shit is insane.

Another one would probably be lack of a sense of direction, which pretty much every adventure type game on the NES had. Where you have no clue where to go and some things are really hard to find without guides.

I don't have a problem with the latter but the first one gets pretty annoying.

[Jotari]

I'd never consider difficulty in a video game a flaw. A game's difficulty can be flawed if it's unfair but a game just being hard shouldn't be considered a negative. Sure it doesn't mean everyone has to play and enjoy it but likewise not everyone needs to play games that are easy. The difficulty in Zelda II is at least fair. It gives you plenty of health, options to extend and recover it, ways to increase defense and mobility and a levelling system that progresses very well as the game develops. Granted it can be a bit aimless, finding Bagu's note, Hidden Palace and the invisible wall in Ocean Palace are notable examples but it's still leagues ahead of most other NES games in that regard, especially Zelda I. It helps that the overworld while being expansive, is basically linear.

[Florete]

I don't hate Majora's Mask, but I don't like it nearly as much as any other. I mean, when you have tough competition like Wind Waker, LttP, Link's Awakening, Skyward Sword, and Twilight Princess, it's hard for me to like it as much. I don't care for Zelda 1 or OoT that much, but they were at least revolutionary. I'd have to give them that.

Though obviously CDI is worse. Guess I forgot them.

Ya know, only two of those games were even out at Melee's time (LttP and Link's Awakening).

But to cite Majora's Mask in particular when calling out Melee for representing "the worst Zelda games" is a ridiculous argument. You may not like it, but it's a pretty well-loved game. If part of your dislike of Melee is because it represents that game, that's fine, but say it as it is.