SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[euklyd]

it's not like you're banning sheik's fair or something completely integral to her entire gameplan

or like, ike's nair, or link's 'rang

you're banning something that enables entirely new, complete degenerate styles of play, that nobody likes to see

and unlike say, infinite grab combos, which end the stock right there, extreme bloons ledgestall forces the match to go to time

Edited March 24, 2015 by Euklyd

[Knife]

What was Samurai smoking anyway when he decided Villager's customs were a good idea?

Trip explode Villager can be easily beaten if you attempt to stage spike him.

Links dash attack hops over the trip sprout and nails Villager once he regrabs the ledge.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Knife

[Randoman]

I guess I'm kind of late regarding responding to Takamaru being considered for the SSB4 roster. (I know the article was posted already in the thread, but I'm linking it again for my own reference reasons)

...though the "unfamiliarity" reason didn't stop a lot of characters from being playable (especially Roy, who even Japan had no reason to be familiar with since his game wasn't even out), it's still quite disappointing. Plus, his original game had him rely more on projectiles than his sword (since with the enemy density and how fast enemies move and attack, you're much safer shooting projectiles than using the sword, especially since you only have 3 hits until death and you have no means of increasing max health), so him being "another sword user" isn't really the case when he hardly uses the sword (and he can't even use the sword unless an enemy is close enough. He'll shoot projectiles otherwise).

...well, either way, hopefully him at least being considered for SSB4 will mean he's that much more likely for the next Smash Bros.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Randoman

[euklyd]

What was Samurai smoking anyway when he decided Villager's customs were a good idea?

Trip explode Villager can be easily beaten if you attempt to stage spike him.

I would think so too, tbh

I've been TOLD that apparently that's much easier said than done but I haven't watched ADHD's sets yet

[spoiler=@heavy skull bash]ESAM did a really detailed/good writeup of heavy skull being dumb, and why custom Pika is the best in the game]

The Reason Heavy Skull Bash is...silly - by ESAM

[PuffPuff]

Genuinely curious how you (Puff) thought Mewtwo was released in Europe already.

Unless you were actually talking about something else, in which case you can simply disregard everything I've said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOm3sTNL7Rw

From a leak here.

Don't look if you don't want to be spoiled.

so apparently mewtwo is ON THE WAY SOON

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klDfJ2Yb7wc

get hype etc also thanks for bumping the thread

YES!

We should expect to see him in April.

Sakurai wants both rosters (Wii U and 3DS) to be identical. 3DS could not handle Ice Climbers (I assume 1 was fine, but a game with 4 Ice Climbers would cause massive slowdown or even a crash) so the character was cut from both. It's got nothing to do with "lack of familiarity" - they would still be here if the 3DS could handle it.

This is also the reason why Mewtwo is being released on both 3DS and Wii U versions - so that both rosters remain identical.

I feel as though I've explained this to you before.

Which is why that the New 3DS exists today!

idk

I see what you're saying and my facetious comparisons were dumb, but like

we've barely seen how anyone deals with customs yet

this isn't really any different (yet) than people talking about how Bowser was TOP TIER or how Little Mac was completely broken

for the record tho, ESAM does say that customs are Bad™

and his opinion counts for at least a bit, given that he was the pikachu

EDIT: it occurs to me that like, people never ever talk about Pika when discussing what effects customs have on top tiers

everyone always forgets about Pikachu lol

as far as banning things go unless something is completely degenerate or awful (like if 1-inch punch was easy to setup and centralizing and shit) imo the reason to ban things should lean towards things like timber counter that encourage the game to be played in uncompetitive / unfun ways

so basically agreeing with RFoF / Doofina

and even then, everything should be taken with a grain of salt (see also: M2K calling for DHD to be banned a month or two in)

sidenote: It might be better if we merged this discussion into Knife's Customs / Competitive thread (or just forked it into a new thread)?

EDIT2: Pika is also top-tier because he reks that completely overpowered villager strat :V

lol

Bad recovery.

Not broken.

[euklyd]

lol

Bad recovery.

Not broken.

I mean

bowser isn't exactly top tier either

so, yes, that is the entire point

reading the context and inferring intent is important

in this case I was saying that calling certain customs totally broken and overpowered is premature, just as the things we were talking about being overpowered a few months ago turned out to be shit

[Knife]

From a leak here.

Don't look if you don't want to be spoiled.

YES!

We should expect to see him in April.

Which is why that the New 3DS exists today!

lol

Bad recovery.

Not broken.

What Pikachu will miss vanilla Skull Bash? No one uses it to recover, quick attack is already godly recovery.

[euklyd]

wait

What Pikachu will miss vanilla Skull Bash? No one uses it to recover, quick attack is already godly recovery.

I thought we were talking about little mac's recovery being shit and so he's not broken

since that was what was bolded

now I'm confused

[DodgeDusk]

...though the "unfamiliarity" reason didn't stop a lot of characters from being playable (especially Roy, who even Japan had no reason to be familiar with since his game wasn't even out)

To be fair, Sakurai was originally going to include Leif (whose game was out by that point), but he chose Roy instead in order to give The Binding Blade more publicity. I can't remember if he himself made that decision however, or if it was done by Intelligent Systems. I want to say the latter

If it means anything, Little Mac ended up being a playable character after being an assist trophy in the previous game. Think of Takamaru's current position like an internship

[PuffPuff]

To be fair, Sakurai was originally going to include Leif (whose game was out by that point), but he chose Roy instead in order to give The Binding Blade more publicity. I can't remember if he himself made that decision however, or if it was done by Intelligent Systems. I want to say the latter

If it means anything, Little Mac ended up being a playable character after being an assist trophy in the previous game. Think of Takamaru's current position like an internship

He had to have made it. Like Kid Icarus Uprising...he made the game.

[HK Motendra]

He had to have made it. Like Kid Icarus Uprising...he made the game.

You do realize that that was merely a special thanks him, right? He had nothing to do with the making of FE6.

To be fair, Sakurai was originally going to include Leif (whose game was out by that point), but he chose Roy instead in order to give The Binding Blade more publicity. I can't remember if he himself made that decision however, or if it was done by Intelligent Systems. I want to say the latter

If it means anything, Little Mac ended up being a playable character after being an assist trophy in the previous game. Think of Takamaru's current position like an internship

If I'm remembering right, the SoS itself played a factor in choosing him over Leif as a way to differentiate more from Marth.

I guess I'm kind of late regarding responding to Takamaru being considered for the SSB4 roster. (I know the article was posted already in the thread, but I'm linking it again for my own reference reasons)

...though the "unfamiliarity" reason didn't stop a lot of characters from being playable (especially Roy, who even Japan had no reason to be familiar with since his game wasn't even out), it's still quite disappointing. Plus, his original game had him rely more on projectiles than his sword (since with the enemy density and how fast enemies move and attack, you're much safer shooting projectiles than using the sword, especially since you only have 3 hits until death and you have no means of increasing max health), so him being "another sword user" isn't really the case when he hardly uses the sword (and he can't even use the sword unless an enemy is close enough. He'll shoot projectiles otherwise).

...well, either way, hopefully him at least being considered for SSB4 will mean he's that much more likely for the next Smash Bros.

I'd have wanted to k ow just how he'd play out if he was. From your description, there really isn't much to go off of, at least now, anyway, given how what he does in-game, as you're saying, is practically similar, if not the same as KI: Uprising, but to a lesser degree. They'd have to embellish the hell out of him, if they'd be working off that, imo.

Then again,this is Sakurai we're talking about,so who knows?

[Jotari]

If I'm remembering right, the SoS itself played a factor in choosing him over Leif as a way to differentiate more from Marth.

I doubt it. Considering they were making him a clone of Marth, differentiating them doesn't really seem high on he list of priorities. Plus Leif uses he Light Sword which would have been at least equally as different had they gone through with it.

[HK Motendra]

Perhaps, he could have. I just remember picking that up sometime in this very thread, ages ago.

[euklyd]

I doubt it. Considering they were making him a clone of Marth, differentiating them doesn't really seem high on he list of priorities. Plus Leif uses he Light Sword which would have been at least equally as different had they gone through with it.

why wouldn't the devs jump at a chance to make a clone slightly less clone-y

you gotta remember that melee clones were way less clone-y than SSB4 clones

like, compare Marth / Roy to Marth / Lucina

Fox / Falco and CFalcon / Ganon and whatnot were actually quite different; I'd say they'd almost certainly see something distinctive as a plus

(I mean, the Light Sword point is a good one, although SoS also shoots fire and stuff, so eh)

EDIT: hahahahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0E7V25Y5ro&feature=share

this is amazing

Edited March 25, 2015 by Euklyd

[Jotari]

why wouldn't the devs jump at a chance to make a clone slightly less clone-y

you gotta remember that melee clones were way less clone-y than SSB4 clones

like, compare Marth / Roy to Marth / Lucina

Fox / Falco and CFalcon / Ganon and whatnot were actually quite different; I'd say they'd almost certainly see something distinctive as a plus

(I mean, the Light Sword point is a good one, although SoS also shoots fire and stuff, so eh)

Oh yeah. I'm aware of that. That's why I worded my statement by saying it's not high on their list of priorities. The more diverse the cast is the better, getting them in there in the first place is more important than making them different though.They clearly care about making them worth playing.

[euklyd]

Oh yeah. I'm aware of that. That's why I worded my statement by saying it's not high on their list of priorities. The more diverse the cast is the better, getting them in there in the first place is more important than making them different though.They clearly care about making them worth playing.

Fair enough; it def makes sense when I look at it that way.

[Elieson]

why wouldn't the devs jump at a chance to make a clone slightly less clone-y

you gotta remember that melee clones were way less clone-y than SSB4 clones

like, compare Marth / Roy to Marth / Lucina

Fox / Falco and CFalcon / Ganon and whatnot were actually quite different; I'd say they'd almost certainly see something distinctive as a plus

(I mean, the Light Sword point is a good one, although SoS also shoots fire and stuff, so eh)

EDIT: hahahahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0E7V25Y5ro&feature=share

this is amazing

Fox/Falco are different? Well, I know their reflectors are unique, but...beyond that they don't appear that different to the untrained eye

Wow

_WOW_

[euklyd]

Fox/Falco are different? Well, I know their reflectors are unique, but...beyond that they don't appear that different to the untrained eye

Wow

_WOW_

in which game

they're quite different in all three, but

some of them are more obvious than others

[Elieson]

Melee primarily, though in Brawl the uniqueness in laser/reflector doesn't seem like anything remarkably different. Still two super fast pretty balanced in power dudes with identical SideB/UpB moves

[Jedi]

Melee primarily, though in Brawl the uniqueness in laser/reflector doesn't seem like anything remarkably different. Still two super fast pretty balanced in power dudes with identical SideB/UpB moves

you seem to have ignored all of Falcos A move changes in brawl.

[General Horace]

falco's also slow as fuck (compared to fox) and can jump slightly higher

also euklyd's video was amazing, those dr mario headbangs

[kingddd]

you seem to have ignored all of Falcos A move changes in brawl.

A lot of people always seem to forget about their A moves when comparing Fox, Falco and Wolf. I remember when majority of the people kept complaining Wolf was a clone when majority of his standard A moves were nothing alike. Only his specials had similar resemblances.

[Elieson]

Nair/Fair look pretty different

DownB the obvs

B the obvs

SideB looks identical

UpBlooks identical

Ftilt looks identical

Dtilt looks identical

Dsmash looks identical

DashA looks identical

Dair looks identical

Jab combos look different but perform the same?

Upsmashes look the same, but Falco's covers a bit more vertical distance (also same move)

Fsmashes look the same but Fox's covers a hit more horizontal distance

Uair look really similar

Utilt too

Just on a comparison of watching that video 6 times at .5speed. I know they're different but they feel like..more clone-like, to me, the untrained casual. Comparing Wolf to either of them is like comparing Captain Falcon to Ganon; they have similar foundations for moves but they handle really differently. I'm sure %s are different but in the flurry of a match I'm not counting +2% here or there and I'm nowhere near Smashboards material to sit and compare damage from movesets

Edited March 25, 2015 by Sara.

[Jotari]

Similar resemblances, and major actual difference. If you discount the final smash, there's probably more similarities between Samus and Captain Falcon than Falco and Wolf.

[Elieson]

What do Samus/Captain Falcon share aside from a similar build, Axe kick and i guess DashA and first Jab?