Rate The Parent Day Five: Sully

[Onestep]

I've been swayed by your arguments and have adjusted my score for Frederick.

Also, unless I've made a huge calculation error, the scores shown in the OP are correct. Male Avatar and Female Avatar did have the same scores both biased and non-biased (MaMU had straight non-biased 10/10's so I counted the people who biased him up as counters to those who biased him down).

So, yeah. I'm pretty sure I didn't make a mistake there. Correct me if I did.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Onestep

[Meteor]

The only father who is better than him are Stahl, Gregor, and Gaius

& Donnel

8/10

Really nice mix of class set with Aegis/Pavise/DG+ for tank build or Luna/Deliverer for offense. His versatility is also somewhat of a negative because most children would prefer offensive skills, though he does well enough. His -2 Spd mod doesn't help either. Finally, his ability to marry Sumia means his usefulness for pairings goes up a bit.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Donnel is only cool in theory

In practice, he is really.... shaky

[Ema Skye]

Fred gives Cavalier and two breakers. Aegis+Pavise would be neat but they take up two skill slots and are rarely worth the effort.

Great Knight is gr9 for skills.

Wyvern Rider is... okay

generalol

and dem mods

4 -1 = 3/10

[Meteor]

Mercenary and Peg Knight access is fantastic for Kjelle/Noire. Donnel fills a much better niche than Freddy, who can easily be replaced by Stahl, Chrom, Kellam, or possibly Lon'qu.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Frederick can be used with almost anyone and solid with all of them, and being a Top choice for Severa, Gerome, Yarne, and Inigo. Only Kjelle is lolterrible while Brady is at worst bad

Donnel is good for Noire, and Kjelle, and solid for Nah

On the other hand, he is horrendous with Severa and Inigo, passable for Laurent(it is basically a gen 2 who become Cordelia without Galeforce which is lol), rather bad with Gerome, rather bad with Yarne. Donnel!Brady still has terrible mods, and Brady does not get Zerker or thief to play with.

And just as Freddy can be replaced, Donnel can be replaced by Gaius

Also I actually give a plus for being able to father Cynthia for him >_>

Edited June 27, 2013 by I have a Dragon Boner

[HeoandReo]

Mercenary and Peg Knight access is fantastic for Kjelle/Noire. Donnel fills a much better niche than Freddy, who can easily be replaced by Stahl, Chrom, Kellam, or possibly Lon'qu.

DB already covered most of what I was going to say, but the issue with Donnel is that the important skills he has (Sol, Galeforce) are actually pretty well distributed. He's only really awesome for the Galeforce-less Girls as a result.

We should probably save the rest for when this topic reaches Donnel, though.

Edited June 27, 2013 by HeoandReo

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

You know, DE is okay >_>

[Meteor]

Galeforce is well distributed, but Sol is not -- 3 kids and 5 fathers, vs, say Luna's 6 kids and 7 fathers. So for that reason I say Frederick is more replaceable.

[Folt]

Frederick

Pros

+ Good class set gives kids a good mix of offensive and defensive skills, for use in varied builds. None of the classes he passes down are generally useless.

+ As an early prepromote, he can give his kid a prepromote skill earlier than most people.

+ Can marry Sumia, a child-bearing unit who is pretty restricted in supports.

+ Deliverer from the Wyvern Rider line can make up for the General's Move, ensuring he won't screw kids that reclass into it to take advantage of his class sets for tank builds.

Cons

- The worst father for Kjelle, class-wise, as he gives nothing to her.

- Lousy Speed modifier can be a problem.

Frederick comes early, and is a prepromote. While this would normally be pretty bad, Frederick's class set and ability to get prepromote skills earlier (particularly Great Knight skills) works in his favour since you can cut down on the time needed to train him for something like Luna or Dual Guard+. He is a good choice for kids that you're planning a tank build on, because he is the only one who gives both Pavise and Aegis to a kid who may have neither, and his good Skill modifier helps the tank take advantage of this fact.

Owain: No class ends up redundant here, and Frederick's modifiers are balanced for him, with an emphasis on defense and resistance. His speed suffers a hit though, though Owain can get around this.

Inigo: Like Owain, Frederick gives no redundant classes here, and allows him to get Luna. Inigo will be strong and durable with Frederick as a father.

Brady: Frederick as a father hampers his magic potential, though he won't have the penalties to strength and defense that he usually does. His resistance will continue to be good, and he does gain access to the Pavise/Aegis combo as well. It's no denying that this is a niché though. Cavalier is redundant in this case too.

Kjelle: Offers stat modifiers and nothing else, due to every class he offers being redundant. The best thing I can say about it is that Kjelle won't get screwed statwise (and has a fairly high chance of activating Pavise, Aegis, and Luna) if you're planning on making her a tank.

Cynthia: Allows Cynthia to do her best as a Falcon Knight, and she doesn't fare any worse in the other physical classes. Knight is redundant for her though.

Severa: Severa can take full advantage of every class that Frederick has, and her stat modifiers are also pretty good. She also appreciates Luna, and the Aegis/Pavise combo, as well as the other skills that Frederick offers. Thanks to Wyvern Rider being among Frederick's class set, Severa can also gain every -breaker skill if you care about that.

Gerome: Frederick's Wyvern Rider class set is redundant on Gerome, but Knight and Cavalier are certainly not! Gerome also gets good Strength and Defense to make good use of the skills that Frederick gives him.

Yarne: As Yarne already has good Speed, Frederick will work just fine with him. Every class that Frederick passes down are also not redundant, because of Panne's Wyvern Rider class set changing into Barbarian. Frederick!Yarne makes for a powerful Berserker, with skills activating more often than usual, thanks to his high Skill modifier.

Laurent: Frederick inhibits Laurent's magic a bit, but Laurent can make for a very tanky Dark Mage/Sorcerer, thanks to Pavise/Aegis, and he also gets Luna and other goodies.

Noire: Knight is redundant on Noire, but Frederick nevertheless allows her to make use of Pavise and Aegis, and have a monstrous Defense stat. Frederick!Noire can also be made into pretty much whatever you want, since her Strength and Magic stats are good, and none of them are significantly better than the other.

Nah: Frederick's Wyvern Rider class is redundant on Nah, but in exchange, he makes her into one of the ultimate tanks, sporting good Defense and Resistance modifiers, having a positive Skill modifier, and getting Pavise and Aegis at the same time! And since she gets Luna as well, Frederick!Nah can do her worth as an attacker too.

Frederick's worth as a father is pretty good, having access to one of the best possible class sets for a tank build character. Access to Luna does not hurt either, given how effectively it outclasses Sol on higher difficulties. His low Speed modifier can be a problem for his child, but his class set is pretty good for most of them, and should not be ignored.

Rating: 7.5/10 (8.5/10 with bias because Pavise/Aegis combo is rather nice, and Deliverer can help fix the General's usually low Move.)

Don't let his nature as a prepromote and his low Speed modifier fool you: Frederick is quite capable as a father, particularly to Severa, Gerome, Yarne, and Nah, who all appreciate the classes and skills he gives them.

[Onestep]

Alright. I'll add up Frederick tommorow, because I'm freaking exhausted right now.

Day 4: Lissa

She has somewhat poor modifiers overall, coming to +1 when most characters have +2. But her modifiers are well distributed for magic. Also, a great class selection and the fact that she's a Staff user lets her build up affection points easily (bias).

No Bias: 8/10

Bias: 8.5/10

[Skarthe]

Procedural question: Are we rating mothers for how good they'd be for some theoretical nondescript child, or how good they are for their children and possibly Morgan?

[ZemZem]

At least Owain's pretty much naturally speedy. Lissa herself doesn't pass down the best stats to her son, but at least she can pass down everyone's favorite skill: Galeforce.

...But really, Lissa's not too good. 2/10

[The Fush]

Lissa can pass down Galeforce and help Morgan in magical terms.

She also completely screws over Owain at times.

4/10

[Onestep]

Procedural question: Are we rating mothers for how good they'd be for some theoretical nondescript child, or how good they are for their children and possibly Morgan?

By the rules I posted in OP, Avatar isn't allowed to be used outside their own vote. Because Avatar is pretty much the best pairing for anyone, stifling any actual debate.

So in mother's case, you can pair them with any other possible father for the sake of voting, while in the father's case, you can pair them with any other mother for the sake of voting.

[Skarthe]

By the rules I posted in OP, Avatar isn't allowed to be used outside their own vote. Because Avatar is pretty much the best pairing for anyone, stifling any actual debate.

So in mother's case, you can pair them with any other possible father for the sake of voting, while in the father's case, you can pair them with any other mother for the sake of voting.

Alright, so we're judging Lissa strictly in terms of Owain. In that case...

Lissa passes Galeforce, but her class set is otherwise not that great. Her stats and modifiers also really don't do Owain any favors; having a physical kid with a magical mom will do that, I suppose. Owain is salvageable with a good physical dad, but I think "salvageable with the right dad" might apply to every kid except Brady. So...

Pros: Galeforce.

Cons: Modifiers and probably personal stats conflict with what Owain wants. Aside from PK, kinda poor class set.

Lissa gets a 3/10 from me, no bias.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Skarthe

[Folt]

Lissa

Pros

+ Can pass down Galeforce to her son.

+ Modifiers regarding magic stats (Magic, Resistance) are good.

+ Owain's bases and growth rates allow him to grow decently in both Strength and Magic, letting you build a decent hybrid character, or let him slide easily into a new role, from magical to physical or it's inversion.

+ Owain being a decent hybrid, as well as getting access to Swordfaire, Axefaire, and Tomefaire, allows him to be a great Dread Fighter.

Cons

- Modifiers regarding physical stats (Strength, Defense) are bad.

- As a result of being more on the magic side, Owain suffers a little bit from being a Myrmidon, a class that's more on the physical side.

There's no denying that being a magical mother giving birth to a Myrmidon son gives Lissa somewhat of a disadvantage, but if you grind up the son, and give him the right skills, he will be one of your better units. Henry, Libra, and Ricken, are great fathers for a magical Owain, Virion and Lon'qu make a decent speedy magic Owain, while Vaike, Gregor, Frederick, Gaius, and Stahl, are great for a physical Owain. Henry is pretty good for a hybrid Dread Fighter Owain as well, and Virion, Lon'qu, Gaius, and Kellam, also make for decent hybrid Dread Fighter Owains. Overall, Owain has good options if you know what you want to do with him, but if you don't, you may run the chance of screwing him over and/or not getting the Owain that you want.

Rating: 6/10 (7/10 with bias because Owain.)

So long as you know what you want to make Owain into, you'll be fine, and Lissa's default options will be nicely complimented with the father's class sets and skills. But if you don't, Owain will probably be one of the kids that you will screw up with in the long run. Still, Lissa does give his son Galeforce, and lays the groundwork for a potentially strong unit with her classes.

[Djing]

Lissa

+ Galeforce

+ Skillset is filled with goodies like faires, vantage and wrath

- Craptastic physical modifiers

- Lacking crucial skills like Great Knight skills or Mercenary skills

Arguably the worst Galeforce mother, Lissa grants Owain magic modifiers, but saddles him with a pool of almost entirely physical classes. Owain's main advantage over Brady is his large collection of faires for mixed attacking, as well as vantage and wrath for crit builds. A jack of all trades, Owain is decent at all of his classes, but is never exceptional at any of them.

6.5/10

-1 bias for forcing Owain to be a lame magic user.

Mother reviews might as well just be kid reviews...

[HeoandReo]

Lissa's mods are pretty bad. Arguably the worst of the mothers or at least bottom three because she lacks good modifiers in the stats that matter the most (Skill, Speed) and where she does excel, it's not particularly impressive. (2 magic is good, but lol1res/2luck) Most of the time Owain won't get above +2 in a given stat unless you give him a stat father like Lon'qu or Virion or Gaius or something.

Compared to the other Galeforce mothers, she's about on par skill-wise with Maribelle, having Miracle/Healtouch over Lifetaker, which I'm inclined to say is a wash. Comparing the kids, while Owain does have a lot of relevant faires, (and by default, he has all he needs to eat Cheetos as a Dread Fighter) I'd say that Brady still has the advantage because Luna makes more of a difference than faires when it comes to offense. The problem with Owain's class set is that it screams physical, but his mother's stats don't give him anything he can really use for that, though thanks to Priest alone, he could always run an acceptable magic offense as a Sage. Or be an Axefaire War Monk.

For the efficiency portion, I'm not really good at that, but for the most part, pair-up tends to be a bit better than using her heals, though it is fairly easy to engineer a marriage to Avatar or Frederick or maybe Virion thanks to how often she's around. (And Avatar appreciates the magic boost.) She can also grind fairly quickly if you're liberal about staff use, though if you're grinding for Galeforce, you have to go out of your way to do it because Dark Fliers don't use staffs.

So in total, bad mods, eh skillset not really suited to them versus Galeforce and an acceptable magic skillset.

4.5/10

Edited June 28, 2013 by HeoandReo

[LunaSaint]

Aside from Galeforce, the skillset and class pool Owain inherits are pretty questionable. Lissa's cap modifiers are quite bad too.

The good news is, cleric and myrmidon access make Owain a great target for inheriting dark mage. If you want to use a magical Owain, Libra provides Dark Mage and is far from a high demand parent. ...and that's all that really matters, even with all the class redundancy. Henry is also an obvious parent for Owain who gets the job done in a similar, if not just better fashion.

With Vantage, Miracle, Vengeance, Galeforce, Tomebreaker, Lifetaker and Dred Fitah skills, Owain can do fine as a caster. He's hurting for speed, but at least it's a net +1 modifier. Shame no-one passes Dark Mage and Great Knight.

Now if only Lissa could marry Tharja. Then we'd have two epic caster kids. :(

Overall, 5.5/10.

She's more than good enough a parent, but very restrictive and won't stand out.

Edit: Whoops, forgot lifetaker for his +DM skills! That's a pretty big'un.

Edited June 28, 2013 by LunaSaint

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Doing two things at the same time

The Galeforce Males are one of the better designed concept in the game..... while at the same time is also a prove that IS sucks dick at ballancing

Brady has a class overlapping of 2 class that has effectively no skills. Yet he get Luna and is amazing anyway, because you effectively has leniency in his father choices(notably Brady is viable with Virion, which is saying something)

Inigo get 2 amazing set of class skills, so while he is not as amazing as Brady at base, he can be tweaked(essentially Brady is like Cynthia, while Inigo is like Severa. The former is always good, with Limited Tweaking but the later can be tweaked into the former, and then more)

Now Owain, on the other hand, is like a middle line of both. He has 2 effectively worthless class(Priest and Barbarian) and one good one(Myrmiddon). He can be tweaked like Inigo(because of Vantage). Sadly:

- There is no Luna father who has speed.

- There are 4 Vantage father in the game, amongst those only Stahl did not give Owain an extended option.

- It just happened that EVERY Luna father has Luna as their only seeling point, and those that did not comes with a class set that screams "PLEASE GIVE TO A CHILD WHO DOES NOT HAVE MYRMIDDON" namely Kellam(Assassin access from Thief) and Stahl(who actually has Myrmiddon

That being said, one can only wonder how good Owain would be if he actually get Luna >_>

As for efficiency? Well, speaking of HM alone, Lissa sucks dick.

6/10 - Have potential, messed up ballance.

[Meteor]

6/10

Lissa actually provides quite a few nice perks to Owain. Unfortunately for him, his mother doesn't offer him quite enough to stand out from the other children who can simply do more.

+ Galeforce

+ Aggressor

+ Assassin/Sage classes

+ lots of -faire skills

- no Luna/Sol

- negative strength and +0 speed mods (not a huge deal though, truthfully)

[Onestep]

Frederick's score is up. Sully now.

Eh. Her modifiers are all over the place, she has an OK class selection and is kinda dull (bias).

No Bias: 6.5

Bias: 5.5

[Djing]

Sully

+ Fine selection of classes

+ Gives Knight for free

+ PavGis

+ Speed

- Worst offensive modifiers in the game (Not that big of a deal)

- Defensive modifiers are lacking (But not terrible)

- Knight is Kjelle only

- No Galeforce

Sully is one badass mother. Not only does she give birth to a badass fitness chick, she also felt the need to squeeze out a full suit of armor for her baby girl. Yes Kjelle is definitely one of the most versatile children in the game, able to run offense (Luna, Dual guard+ Assassin, Galeforce from a suitable father) or Defense (PavGis General/Paladin). Of the three Galeforceless daughters Kjelle is the one that functions the best without it. Having FOUR classes at base does that to a girl.

As Lucina's mother, Sully fails to deliver. No Galeforce and low defenses hamper Lucina's potential.

7/10

+ 1 bias for defying the laws of Fire Emblem genetics

[Folt]

Sully

Pros

+ Since Kjelle starts in a class that Sully can't become, Sully has the most class- and skill-diverse child at base (AKA before the father weighs in with his classes and skills).

+ Passes decent modifiers to Kjelle.

+ Passes a decent class set to Kjelle as well.

+ Her daughter has access to Pavise/Aegis by default, allowing her to make a good tank by default.

+ Sully is one of the few girls who can marry Chrom.

Cons

- Doesn't pass down Galeforce to Kjelle, forcing her to find someone willing to give it to her, or to make a skillset that lessens her need for it. Luckily, both of these are possible.

- Somewhat on the weak side, and the bland side, modifier-wise, but the correct father can redeem this, or make it a non-issue.

- Only Kjelle, her daughter, will get Knight, though this is only a disadvantage if you married Sully to Chrom.

Sully makes a pretty decent daughter. Kjelle at base gets both offensive and defensive classes, that give her good offensive and defensive options. Recommended fathers for her are either Donnel or Vaike: Donnel can pass down the Mercenary tree, as well as the Peg. Knight tree, which gives her Galeforce, while Vaike can pass down Thief for high-mobility skills, and the Mercenary tree, as well as a great Strength modifier to go with her high Skill and Speed modifiers, and also Axefaire which in this case helps boost Kjelle's offensive and defensive abilities further, thanks to Helswath's existence. Vaike's skillset can actually make Kjelle into a pretty decent General if you want to, but she also has enough skills to kick ass as a rather fine Hero too. Sully's modifiers can actually make Kjelle fine for niché stuff, in that Pavise/Aegis can actually work for a tanky Sorcerer (Libra or Henry) or whatnot. Either way, Kjelle can do fine, even with what she has. And even if Sully!Lucina is regarded as the worst Lucina of a playable mother, even she will have ways to redeem herself, getting Myrmidon and Wyvern Rider and useful -breaker, avoid, and mobility skills (and Swordfaire).

Rating: 6.5/10 (No bias.)

Class-wise, Kjelle will be alright, most fathers won't screw her over too terribly. Sully herself is decent as most moms go, even for Lucina.