League of Legends

[Xander]

The problem many feel with the current Dynamic Q system is that Riot are trying to shove group/team play down players' throats. Even when the game was Solo/Duo Q before Dynamic's introduction, many people would play ranked alone for the sake of self-achievement. While the current system is good at getting up teams queued as 5 vs other teams queued as 5 (why not just bring back ranked teams?), the others who queued as 2/3/4 have a distinct advantage. Basically, the team with the least number of solo players is statistically more likely to win. And when you're that Solo Q player who doesn't want to queue up with friends for the sake of Solo Q integrity getting pitted against a team where at least 3 of them are using some form of superior communication outside of game chat and pings, you just want to not bother playing.

The uproar is the fact that Riot promised a pure Solo Q (1+1+1+1+1 vs 1+1+1+1+1) when Dynamic was introduced, and for 6 months strung us Solo Q purists along, first "Definitely" then "yes just fixing some problems" then "probably soon" then "probably not" to "no" just the other day. Half a fucking year it took them to finally tell us that there will not be a Solo Q. Some speculate that it was just a ploy to keep the Solo Q'ers around for as long as possible, forcing them into Dynamic if they had any intention of playing in a competitive ladder which means jack. I'm mid-silver but that doesn't give me any less right to be pissed about the compromised integrity of ranked games and individual rank. The old solo/duo queue system wasn't perfect but it was better than the dynamic shit we've got now.

I really think people overestimate the value of communication in the game for some reason. It sounds like you think everyone in comms together is an LCS smurf that can communicate effectively. I've been on the winning and losing side of playing against a 3 man queue and every time the people in a call together don't actually know how to communicate effectively about the game. From playing ranked 5s in the past I can tell you that poor communication actually hinders your chances of winning a lot more than it increases them, and I guarantee you random scrubs don't time or announce summoner spells or give any meaningful information in comms. They're probably either talking about their favorite show's latest episodes or tilting/raging at each other. If you know how to ladder, you will still climb. I feel like people use the 2/3 man queue vs solo players argument as an excuse more than anything. Also people seem to be forgetting, the old system is objectively worse for laddering than the current one because of the lack of role selection. The "Solo queue" system was a worse measure of individual skill than this one is because in most cases, getting the role and champions you were best at, or at least competent on was down to luck.

[Raven]

I really think people overestimate the value of communication in the game for some reason. It sounds like you think everyone in comms together is an LCS smurf that can communicate effectively. I've been on the winning and losing side of playing against a 3 man queue and every time the people in a call together don't actually know how to communicate effectively about the game. From playing ranked 5s in the past I can tell you that poor communication actually hinders your chances of winning a lot more than it increases them, and I guarantee you random scrubs don't time or announce summoner spells or give any meaningful information in comms. They're probably either talking about their favorite show's latest episodes or tilting/raging at each other. If you know how to ladder, you will still climb. I feel like people use the 2/3 man queue vs solo players argument as an excuse more than anything. Also people seem to be forgetting, the old system is objectively worse for laddering than the current one because of the lack of role selection. The "Solo queue" system was a worse measure of individual skill than this one is because in most cases, getting the role and champions you were best at, or at least competent on was down to luck.

You can call it an excuse or whatever, but there are statistics that prove that winrates are skewed towards teams with multiple people queued together vs solo queued players. The role selection was an improvement, but this has nothing to do with dynamic queue and the current problems that are being brought up. As it stands, it would have been much better if they kept the old solo/duo queue and simply implemented the new champion select into it.

https://github.com/richkcho/league_of_tilt/blob/master/other/flaws_of_dynamic_queue.md

https://github.com/richkcho/league_of_tilt/blob/master/other/flaws_of_dynamic_queue.md#results-part-2-limiting-to-3-man-premades

[Xander]

You can call it an excuse or whatever, but there are statistics that prove that winrates are skewed towards teams with multiple people queued together vs solo queued players. The role selection was an improvement, but this has nothing to do with dynamic queue and the current problems that are being brought up. As it stands, it would have been much better if they kept the old solo/duo queue and simply implemented the new champion select into it.

https://github.com/richkcho/league_of_tilt/blob/master/other/flaws_of_dynamic_queue.md

https://github.com/richkcho/league_of_tilt/blob/master/other/flaws_of_dynamic_queue.md#results-part-2-limiting-to-3-man-premades

That data is for master or challenger players, which goes back to my original point, no one below master should be complaining about the system. If you looked at the data for 3 man premades vs all solo players in lower elos, I guarantee you the results will see a much lower winrate for the 3 man premade as opposed to here (and I'm going to take a wild guess that's why the data wasn't cherry picked and put here) , where you're equating randoms with the top .03% of players. I would guess that due to the larger sample size, the percentage of games where a 3 man premade plays vs a group of all solo players will be much, much lower than the amount shown here. The fact of the matter is, if you are not in master tier, dynamic queue is not a problem for you, it's not hindering you, it's actually a net positive in comparison to the old system. If you are not in the .03% it makes no sense to act as if their problems apply to you.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Xander

[Raven]

That data is for master or challenger players, which goes back to my original point, no one below master should be complaining about the system. If you looked at the data for 3 man premades vs all solo players in lower elos, I guarantee you the results will see a much lower winrate for the 3 man premade as opposed to here (and I'm going to take a wild guess that's why the data wasn't cherry picked and put here) , where you're equating randoms with the top .03% of players. I would guess that due to the larger sample size, the percentage of games where a 3 man premade plays vs a group of all solo players will be much, much lower than the amount shown here. The fact of the matter is, if you are not in master tier, dynamic queue is not a problem for you, it's not hindering you, it's actually a net positive in comparison to the old system. If you are not in the .03% it makes no sense to act as if their problems apply to you.

Regardless of rank, the winrates are still skewed against solo players.

[Xander]

Regardless of rank, the winrates are still skewed against solo players.

At higher ranks. Since there are 2247711 players on your server under platinum It still doesn't affect you. I guarantee you you will rarely be playing against premade 3s (and even if you are, there's no way to know short of using some illegal 3rd party program). My friends lists are empty on the majority of my accounts and my winrates are much, much higher than they've ever been in previous seasons. The only thing that's changed this season is that while the ladder no longer directly reflects individual skill and ability, it better reflects a player's ability to work with and contribute to a team and encourages intelligent rather than flashy play (slightly more by the way, the difference isn't even noticeable for the most part).

Edit: Read the top post in this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4me6ci/bronze_plat_players_is_dynamic_que_dq_bad/

This is the first logical thread I have seen on reddit recently regarding dynamic queue. Even if you are playing vs a 3 man queue with all solo (though the chances of that will be something around one every fifty games maybe), they're silver players with no idea how to play the game. I would argue if you have 3 silver players in a call together of a skill level they belong at, you have a very good chance at winning if you know how to play the game at least at a gold level in silver. There is no grand conspiracy by riot to keep solo players down. I've seen a guy who's been bronze for the entirety of the game including this season, always pays for an elo boost to get to silver 5, is now losing every game, and "quit" because he "can't climb in dynamic queue". He's literally the worst player I've ever seen, and belongs in the deep trenches of bronze 5. Anyway if you want to improve, I suggest you don't become this guy, lose the ego and stop blaming everyone but yourself or coming up with ridiculous conspiracy theories as you have no reason to dislike the system, unless you are in the .03% of players that dynamic queue negatively affects (according to Riot top 1%).

Edited June 3, 2016 by Xander

[Raven]

At higher ranks. Since there are 2247711 players on your server under platinum It still doesn't affect you. I guarantee you you will rarely be playing against premade 3s (and even if you are, there's no way to know short of using some illegal 3rd party program). My friends lists are empty on the majority of my accounts and my winrates are much, much higher than they've ever been in previous seasons. The only thing that's changed this season is that while the ladder no longer directly reflects individual skill and ability, it better reflects a player's ability to work with and contribute to a team and encourages intelligent rather than flashy play (slightly more by the way, the difference isn't even noticeable for the most part).

Edit: Read the top post in this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4me6ci/bronze_plat_players_is_dynamic_que_dq_bad/

This is the first logical thread I have seen on reddit recently regarding dynamic queue. Even if you are playing vs a 3 man queue with all solo (though the chances of that will be something around one every fifty games maybe), they're silver players with no idea how to play the game. I would argue if you have 3 silver players in a call together of a skill level they belong at, you have a very good chance at winning if you know how to play the game at least at a gold level in silver. There is no grand conspiracy by riot to keep solo players down. I've seen a guy who's been bronze for the entirety of the game including this season, always pays for an elo boost to get to silver 5, is now losing every game, and "quit" because he "can't climb in dynamic queue". He's literally the worst player I've ever seen, and belongs in the deep trenches of bronze 5. Anyway if you want to improve, I suggest you don't become this guy, lose the ego and stop blaming everyone but yourself or coming up with ridiculous conspiracy theories as you have no reason to dislike the system, unless you are in the .03% of players that dynamic queue negatively affects (according to Riot top 1%).

Yes, I've read some of the replies in this thread. I'm still interested in seeing how much solo players win over premades (and how often). The communication advantage is sometimes more than enough because all it takes is one person with their head screwed on to realise when and where objectives and picks can be taken, etc., and as long as there's no available voice comms in League, this advantage (however rare it may or may not be) will always be there. Since Golds can queue with Silvers, the advantage is there, and shouldn't be ignored just because they're lowly ranked plebs thus it doesn't matter.

The game has definitely become more team-oriented as of late, and I agree it's more about the team play and objective-taking than one person's ability to 1v5 then push to win. Of course this is where the comms comes in between 3-5 man queues; I don't know how rare or common they are, but they are there, and they have the advantage. All it takes is one Gold to order a bunch of Silver around through voice comms to do the things they wouldn't normally do if they weren't told otherwise, and already the game's taking a different direction in their team's advantage. I don't see how this is can be combated aside from creating voice chat in-game, or creating a pure solo queue with no chance of a voice comms advantage, where everyone starts on the same blank slate. Whatever is decided, I think something needs to be done to bring integrity back to an individual's rank. Who knows if that Gold 5 guy was playing solo or working with another Gold to get him there. All someone would have to do is befriend a Gold 1 and a low Silver to keep the average MMR low, voice chat with them, they follow Gold's advice throughout the games, and there it is - easy/easier end of season rewards, which is I think the main goal for most people climbing to Gold.

I've only played 2 ranked games this season as I've been waiting for Solo Q. This is in fact what I am most personally annoyed with. I'd have started my DQ clown fiesta earlier if they simply said from the start "probably not gonna happen sorry" and faced the music earlier instead of holding it off until now.

[Xander]

Who knows if that Gold 5 guy was playing solo or working with another Gold to get him there. All someone would have to do is befriend a Gold 1 and a low Silver to keep the average MMR low, voice chat with them, they follow Gold's advice throughout the games, and there it is - easy/easier end of season rewards, which is I think the main goal for most people climbing to Gold.

Link me the op.gg of someone who has been evidently boosted by dynamic queue with your method. Go ahead, I'll wait...oh wait, you won't be able to because the method you just stated is completely impractical, inefficient, and illogical. Regardless of what you want to believe, if a diamond or higher level player had to raise the rank of a silver player, they would simply play on that person's account. I shouldn't even have to explain why, but say I were to queue up with a player of bronze 5 skill level and wanted to raise the player to silver 5 so I played with them on a smurf. This would be extremely time consuming and at a certain point even if I tell the bronze level player everything they need to be doing, their lack of mechanical skill will prohibit them from executing basic mechanical tasks once we reach about two divisions above where the player belongs. Elo boosting is still done the old fashioned way, dynamic queue hasn't affected it at all at any rank below Master.

If I misunderstood your post and you're simply implying it's unfair that a couple of friends, one slightly higher in skill level than the others play together, why do you care? Why are you so hellbent on crucifying people for trying to enjoy the game? It sounds like you have no idea how this works by the way, because a player of gold 1 skill level will probably barely be able to drag a low silver player past silver 3, let alone all the way to gold 5 with your method. If he does play the hundreds of games it would realistically take for your scenario to pan out, since it takes roughly 200 games to find true elo (or the average of a silver 4-5 and gold 1, gold 5 mmr in the case you presented here), I wouldn't consider it easy (and in the mean time the gold 1 player's true rank will suffer for doing this).

Edited June 4, 2016 by Xander

[Raven]

Even Riot knows (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/dynamic-queue-and-future-league) there are problems with the fairness in Dynamic Q. I've got nothing more to say on the matter that I haven't previously said or isn't said in the "premades and fairness" section of that link, but I agree with your point regarding the silver and gold queueing up not being worth it in the long run. Also I have nothing against people playing together to have some fun in their games. That's what normal/unranked is for, in my opinion. But hey, Dynamic Queue exists, the ranks mean literally nothing outside of giving you a goal to reach if you even care, so everyone should just play Dynamic Q.

Riot said they're working on methods to make it more fair, regardless of how rare premades vs non-premades are. So as I said in my previous reply, there's no point in holding off playing ranked any longer.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Raven

[eclipse]

Smurfing's great, when I'm really out of it, and would probably feed like crazy in any mode not called "Co-op vs. AI".

Features two bots and a duo lane, which didn't bother telling anyone they were a duo lane. I got solo top. Laning was about as painful as you can imagine, no thanks to Pantheon. However, Rammus would occasionally do suicidal things like roll straight into my turret while my ult was up. Eventually, I got my items, and wound up turning into some sort of weird burst caster. MF left about halfway through the game, which meant it was just me and Lissandra doing all the work.

Thanks to my completely unplanned build, I was able to bust down turrets pretty quickly. Still can't believe I wound up with the most kills!

[Raven]

Those poor Udyr and Lucian, someone needs to tutor them.

[Zanarkin]

:o got my first S- rank playing as Sona eventhough I haven't played her as support in forever.

Anyone know any good way to catch up on things real quick? It seems like everything has changed and champs are so different, it feels a bit daunting to read about all the things that have changed since I stopped playing.

[eclipse]

What I did was created a smurf, and did my best to get accustomed to things like the interface. Then, go check out some guides (these guys sometimes drop some good links, read 'em).

If you want a primer of some of the new/reworked characters, this channel has a decent rundown of things (it's also hilarious, especially the Teemo one).

[Raven]

Aw man look what just came in the mail for me

I'm still at work so I can't download it until I get home. But I'm quite happy as I was disappointed that I didn't get an invite when it first started.

[Zanarkin]

What I did was created a smurf, and did my best to get accustomed to things like the interface. Then, go check out some guides (these guys sometimes drop some good links, read 'em).

If you want a primer of some of the new/reworked characters, this channel has a decent rundown of things (it's also hilarious, especially the Teemo one).

Yeah I thought about creating a smurf. Maybe I will!

Thanks about sources btw. I had seen Bricky's videos, they are pretty good! I haven't seen the summoner school one. I'll give it a try. Thanks.

[Xander]

But hey, Dynamic Queue exists, the ranks mean literally nothing outside of giving you a goal to reach if you even care, so everyone should just play Dynamic Q.

Riot said they're working on methods to make it more fair, regardless of how rare premades vs non-premades are. So as I said in my previous reply, there's no point in holding off playing ranked any longer.

This tweet sums it up better than I can. https://twitter.com/LiquidDominate/status/738571749965500416

Ranked means the same thing as it always has, it's a general indication of a player's individual skill and their ability to work with a team. I understand that lower elo players see their favorite pro streamers complaining about it and want to identify a reason why they can't climb without self reflection, but if you actually think for a second you'll realize it has a positive affect for you, in fact, Dynamic queue was made to appeal to and hand hold the casual player (everyone below platinum). Here is what dynamic queue looks like at lower ranks, since you're so afraid of facing a low elo multi man queue

http://plays.tv/video/5757369c4a4190eed6/the-saltiest-yasuo?from=search&game_id=b179585c6b68a2791eea4a1ad3d7ef72&leagueoflegends%3Asummoner=sweatypenisjuice-na

Judging from that video what I said before, that if you are facing a dynamic queue of silver players your chances of winning will probably increase substantially is correct. But if you want to keep making up excuses out of thin air as to why ranked is meaningless even though dynamic queue negatively affects only the top % of players' experience, and helps the general casual platinum/gold/silver/bronze player, then fine.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Xander

[TheUnderman14]

I don't know how to post a screenshot and too lazy to check so i'll just say that those times once in a blue moon when everything goes perfectly and you're a

25/0/6 Ekko...i should do that more often

[Raven]

You can find your match history on http://op.gg/ - select your server, enter your summoner name, and update.

[PeaceRibbon]

So uhh... I just hit level thirty.

anyone? nobody? ok.

Does the game change all that much once you stop leveling?

[PKLucas531]

A lot of people would say it's when the game starts!

Fill out your rune pages n' stuff before going into Ranked to save yourself some sanity, if you were planning on doing any of that.

[Zanarkin]

A lot of people would say it's when the game starts!

Fill out your rune pages n' stuff before going into Ranked to save yourself some sanity, if you were planning on doing any of that.

You could probably just go with tier 2 runes for roles you don't play very often and Tier 3 for your main roles. That is possibly the cheapest, considering how expensive the damn tier 3 runes are.

Edited June 25, 2016 by SlayerX

[PeaceRibbon]

You could probably just go with tier 2 runes for roles you don't play very often and Tier 3 for your main roles. That is possibly the cheapest, considering how expensive the damn tier 3 runes are.

Hmm, sounds like a good idea. Got any recommendations on where to get ideas for page setups? I mainly play supports with some kind of friendly heal in their abilities (sona (most played character), nami, taric, ect.). I just really don't wanna spend a ton of IP on bad runes, so any advice is welcome.

[eclipse]

Unfortunately, a "good" rune page changes with the items/calculations. Support pages usually have a mix of armor, MR, HP, and something else (I run hybrid pen). These guys sometimes drop useful links/questions.

[Xander]

Hmm, sounds like a good idea. Got any recommendations on where to get ideas for page setups? I mainly play supports with some kind of friendly heal in their abilities (sona (most played character), nami, taric, ect.). I just really don't wanna spend a ton of IP on bad runes, so any advice is welcome.

AP Quints, magic penetration marks (reds), armor seals (yellows), magic resist glyphs (blues) is an all purpose standard page for your champion pool. If you only play support you'll probably only need one rune page since all standard supports are AP. Riot reduced the cost of the "standard" tier 3 runes so that page should cost around ~7000 IP. Your rune pages won't matter much since you like to play back line champions, so you could cut Taric from your champion pool (I would suggest replacing him with Bard, or Karma) and run full AP if you wanted to increase your carry potential since you shouldn't be getting hit in teamfights anyway, and those three champions tend to dominate lane unless the player is outskilled or the opponent is playing Zyra.

Also, remember to put support/fill for your role selection to maximize your chances of getting support (98% chance).

Edited June 25, 2016 by Xander

[PeaceRibbon]

AP Quints, magic penetration marks (reds), armor seals (yellows), magic resist glyphs (blues) is an all purpose standard page for your champion pool. If you only play support you'll probably only need one rune page since all standard supports are AP. Riot reduced the cost of the "standard" tier 3 runes so that page should cost around ~7000 IP. Your rune pages won't matter much since you like to play back line champions, so you could cut Taric from your champion pool (I would suggest replacing him with Bard, or Karma) and run full AP if you wanted to increase your carry potential since you shouldn't be getting hit in teamfights anyway, and those three champions tend to dominate lane unless the player is outskilled or the opponent is playing Zyra.

Also, remember to put support/fill for your role selection to maximize your chances of getting support (98% chance).

I in fact do play Bard! I just like playing all kinds of champions to keep it fresh, and taric is one of my favorite mix ups. Sure I want to play well in ranked, but I don't want to feel like I have to make decisions based solely around gittin gud. It is after all just a game. Thanks for the rune suggestions too. (And you eclipse!)

[Zanarkin]

The sadness... :<

ah well it seems the servers got taken down shortly after anyway. Guess i'll go play another game. Wanted to get my FWotD though