SB. Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 NNR hasn't said otherwise so I'll just confirm the randomized kill thing. It's probably scorri and someone who wasn't sure enough to do night actions on their own. Objection maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I really don't like the view of "I'll leave Strege alone to more expert people". Why are you specifically leaving him in the hands of "more expert people" and not me? It's even worse when you consider that the scumread he states here is partially based on an associative read with Strege. It makes zero sense to leave someone who's tied to your main scumread alone. As for the bit about the gutread on Kay, Elie's gutread was based solely on Kay being inactive, with no attempt to look at the one or two posts that she did make on D1. I see a difference between that gutread and mine on Strege, which is based on a tone comparison to his scum games, as well as knowing him for five years. And why would your vote be considered an OMGUS? The reasons you outline aren't even related to my vote against you. Looks self-conscious. Won't argue the me killing Kay thing as maybe being WIFOM because I suppose I am the most likely person to do something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 BBM isn't mafia because he would be active enough to send in a kill :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 It's not just about activity, it's about motivation to actually post the kill. He may have simply forgotten about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Scorri brings up some good points about Shin and I think if any of my townreads are wrong (which they are at this point, unless the team is Scorri/Objection), that's probably the one. Do you have a particular reason to townread Shin or is it just gut? I ask because, if we're outing townreads anyway (which I guess we've been doing far too often), we may as well bring related evidence to the table if we can. I really don't like the view of "I'll leave Strege alone to more expert people". Why are you specifically leaving him in the hands of "more expert people" and not me? It's even worse when you consider that the scumread he states here is partially based on an associative read with Strege. It makes zero sense to leave someone who's tied to your main scumread alone. As for the bit about the gutread on Kay, Elie's gutread was based solely on Kay being inactive, with no attempt to look at the one or two posts that she did make on D1. I see a difference between that gutread and mine on Strege, which is based on a tone comparison to his scum games, as well as knowing him for five years. wrt the bolded: what makes you think that is the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 @BBM: Also, I promised to cite comments earlier in this game related to my modifiers. The last paragraph of 545 -- where I was just kind of tired and didn't bother explaining where I was getting the quotes. There's also my second bolded comment on 511, where I should have been more descriptive. I get a little too far into my own head sometimes maybe.@scorri: I don't know if you find my vote on you bad after I clarified some points, but you're voting me to a large extent off of D3 analysis. What do you think about the rest of my content? I don't know how far you've read back, but I would appreciate something in this vein.If anyone is still finding me having a bunch of D1 reads at all bad: I ISO'd everyone and found scummy things to point out in many of them at a point that was early enough that I hadn't noticed any towntells yet. If you think my arguments were scummy that may be a point against me, but I don't understand how having a lot of content is scummy. It's not like I wasn't trying to push my cases; it's that no one was responding to them (see: SB who never responded to my vote, scorri who disappeared, Terra who disappeared, Wallcrab who subbed out, Elie who became null (but disappeared too), etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Strege: I've looked at it some but you were mostly a null read for me up until the wagon stuff I did. There was stuff that I viewed as scummy and stuff I viewed as town. But that wagon jump to Elie was pretty bad and kinda convinced me of your scumminess. As for your vote on me, I find it less bad, but it still feels like you're largely voting me for the fact that this player slot was inactive. NNR hasn't said otherwise so I'll just confirm the randomized kill thing. It's probably scorri and someone who wasn't sure enough to do night actions on their own. Objection maybe? It's completely possible that someone just forgot to send in the kill. Especially since there are two people left, it could have just been something as dumb as both people thinking the other would submit the kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Waitwaitwaitwait: If anyone is still finding me having a bunch of D1 reads at all bad: I ISO'd everyone and found scummy things to point out in many of them at a point that was early enough that I hadn't noticed any towntells yet. If you think my arguments were scummy that may be a point against me, but I don't understand how having a lot of content is scummy. It's not like I wasn't trying to push my cases; it's that no one was responding to them (see: SB who never responded to my vote, scorri who disappeared, Terra who disappeared, Wallcrab who subbed out, Elie who became null (but disappeared too), etc.) So... here you say that it's not bad to have lots of D1 reads that change, but earlier you were saying that you found Elie scummy because he has a bunch of different reads that change over time. Which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Strege: I've looked at it some but you were mostly a null read for me up until the wagon stuff I did. There was stuff that I viewed as scummy and stuff I viewed as town. But that wagon jump to Elie was pretty bad and kinda convinced me of your scumminess. As for your vote on me, I find it less bad, but it still feels like you're largely voting me for the fact that this player slot was inactive. Would you, let's say as a uninformed observer, find me scummy if I had continued to vote your playerslot? I don't understand what is scummy about me changing my vote unless you and I are scumbuddies. I suppose I'm voting you partially through PoE for a lack of towntells, which generally don't pop up until you post for a while, but that's the only part related to your inactivity and all I can say about it I think. Waitwaitwaitwait: So... here you say that it's not bad to have lots of D1 reads that change, but earlier you were saying that you found Elie scummy because he has a bunch of different reads that change over time. Which is it? Mine were usually explained in their development and their weakening, if they did get weaker, analyzed most of a person's activity, and tried to push responses. Elie found a thing or two that he got really worked up about, often justified with gutreads, and then stopped. I was making myself more accountable for my reads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 You continue to forget that you were also a wagon at that point in time. By switching to Elie from me, you start to make him look like the only real viable wagon. This is supported by the fact that the last three votes on Elie were "Well, we need a lynch." If someone had switched to you instead, maybe that would have happened to you. Your vote feels extremely opportunistic and a way of getting attention off yourself and on to someone else instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 BBM is a bit of defensive towards Strege based on a gutread even though he attacked Elie for finding Kay scummy based on a gutread here. What exactly is your take on gut reads? The Kay kill could be WIFOM if he's mafia. The bolded is what makes me think it's partially associative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 The Kay kill was pretty neutral, it doesn't really give away much, but I have a feeling it was indeed randomly done. Objection's logic is kinda horrible, his point against me seems to be because he agrees with scorri, However, for no good reason he deems her slightly scummy. I've had no problems with scorri's current logic, but I still feel that Shinori's sudden jump from "Eli is town" to "vote Eli" is bad. He even said it two posts after SB voted and Eli did his "curse you" post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 tbf I'm pretty sure Shinori's Elie vote was just to consolidate. As for why I think Objection's vote against me is partially associative, he brings up me being defensive of Strege. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoRex Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 I don't think I can sit here much longer with this total clusterfuck of a game I've created. So many modding mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 How much time is left in phase NNR? Aka did we get the extension or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Current Votals: Scorri (3): SB, Strege (L-2) Strege (2): kirsche, scorri (L-2) Objection! (1): BBM BBM (1): Objection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I would quite like an extension if that is possible.@scorri: Oh, I see what you mean; I guess that could be true. I would also point you to my conversation with BBM on the page prior to me voting Elie, though, in which he convinces me that my biggest point in the townie column for Elie wasn't solid. I reread his ISO after that.@BBM: I just read that as "BBM is criticizing gutreads but leans on this one" where he explains what that read of yours is. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think criticizing someone for defending someone else is necessarily an associative point anyway.@Objection: I agree with Shin that I'd like you to explain what points against him you find most convincing and why. Also, you say that scorri's points are good and that makes her more townie to you, but that you're still leaning scum on her, yet you've never said that Shinori/scorri was scummy, just absent. What do you find scummy about her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoRex Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) Yes, you can have an extension. 24 more hours. Edited August 22, 2013 by NekoRex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Honestly, I could lynch Objection at this point. I was the doc yesterday, since I keep forgetting to say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I just reread the last couple of pages because I was focused on responding to scorri / waking up (I know it's after noon stop judging me). The only thing that stood out was that I copied Shin's comment on Objection more than I thought (it didn't register with me somehow that Shin had already brought up the lack of explanation for a scumread on scorri). Also, looking back at my read order, the density of scummy points for scorri/Shinori is decreasing, and I'm not sure I'd like to hold a vote there anymore. However, I do find the playerslot somewhat scummy for the first posts and Shinori's distancing, and I would like opinions on Objection and Shin (beyond the vote on you, because while I don't like the reasons either way I think that his vote on you is reasoned different than Elie's position due to mod information /and more importantly/ your entire argument against your secondary scumread is based on one item, and I'd just like to see more stuff).Meanwhile, Objection is looking more scummy to me -- the unexplained and unpushed scumread on Shin and to a greater extent on scorri/Shinori adding to the Darros interactions as the main points against him. I don't see him referencing OMGUS or his vote switch as scummy -- the vote switch happened when the Elie wagon was gaining some amount of steam (IIRC) so I doesn't strike me as opportunistic. Saying Elie was "not-really-that-scummy" at the end of D3 despite his opinion of him never improving concerns me though because he voted him and indicated that Elie was concerning but never followed up by asking questions or pushing specific points, even when Elie explained his vote. His support for that wagon was implicit until there wasn't much possibility of switching, and then he distanced himself from it.Objection > scorri > Shin > kirsche > BBM##Unvote, ##Vote: ObjectionWhat do you find scummy about Shin and scorri? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Objection! Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 The reason I'm pushing BBM instead of Strege is because Strege was already pushed by scorri while BBM wasn't pushed by anyone. My opinion of scorri right now is affected by Shinori's action. Having no reads (nor even posts...) For over half the game is pretty bad FMPOV. Coasting is the word to describe it if I'm not mistaken. There's also the Kay kill to be concerned about. However, as I mentioned before I have better opinions of her right now. As for Shin, I agree with scorri's point about the "hypocrisy" of voting Shinori for inactivity after attacking Elie for scumreading Kay because of inactivity. I really don't have much more case against BBM since he responded quite well, so I'll switch to Shin for the reasons stated above. ##Unvote ##Vote: Shin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strege Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 @Objection: Why do you find scorri scummy, and what is your opinion of me? I don't mind at all being pushed by more than one person so push wherever you find most useful, but it's not clear what your read on me is. Also, do you think anything else Shin has done has been scummy? The concerning part for me about your vote on him is that you have only explained one piece of evidence for it, and that was borrowed from scorri's case, so it's not clear that the read is genuine and it doesn't contribute much to his potential lynch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Objection! Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I find you slightly scummy currently. However, I don't have anything new to add that hasn't been said. I explained my scorri/Shinori opinion here. My opinion of scorri right now is affected by Shinori's action. Having no reads (nor even posts...) For over half the game is pretty bad FMPOV. Coasting is the word to describe it if I'm not mistaken. There's also the Kay kill to be concerned about. However, as I mentioned before I have better opinions of her right now. (but not completely good) Probably should've added this. As for the Shin vote, I find it bad that he didn't mention a defense against scorri's points against him even though he acknowledges as 'valid'. Is that a sign of surrender? Also, apparently I missed a piece SB outed. So, I would like to take back my BigBang(M) theory about the Kay kill being WIFOM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 The Kay kill wasn't WIFOM, it was randomized ffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Oh, reading is hard guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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