Musical Chairs Mafia, Town Wins, the Mod Loses

[Terrador]

Scorri: even after God-knows-how-many games, I play really bad earlygames. Really, really bad. And with nothing concrete, I felt it better to back off a bit than to be ganged up on for a gutread. This is earlygame, and not standing by a "hey I just opened the thread this stuff happened okay gutread go" read really shouldn't be scummy.

[Terrador]

And for the record: I legit thought Elie was saying he was a doctor. Look through my lens for a moment:

1) There was no phrasing which specifically indicated that he was speaking hypothetically.

2) My only experience with Elie has involved some pretty crazy reaction testing and generally unorthodox play

3) I'm awful, awful, awful at reading between the lines.

In that situation, I wouldn't assume a misrepresentation. But, the most important thing is: Why would I misrepresent what everyone else apparently thought was hypothetical? It'd be shot down in a heartbeat, which it was.

[scorri]

But here's my issue. There was no need to be all "Oh, this is just an ED1 gutread." Like... you're allowed to change your opinions. As it turns out, things happen, opinions change. But, the way you went about it made it seem like you were trying way to hard to not actually commit to voting Elie while still being able to vote him. Also, wrt his "claim" the scummier thing I found was the way you reacted and did your best to be like "Oh, I'm just being paranoid and misunderstanding things... New subject!"

[Terrador]

But here's my issue. There was no need to be all "Oh, this is just an ED1 gutread." Like... you're allowed to change your opinions. As it turns out, things happen, opinions change. But, the way you went about it made it seem like you were trying way to hard to not actually commit to voting Elie while still being able to vote him. Also, wrt his "claim" the scummier thing I found was the way you reacted and did your best to be like "Oh, I'm just being paranoid and misunderstanding things... New subject!"

Well, my only experience with ED1 was "hey you're taking this too seriously SUSPICION", so I took some apparently over-the-top measures to emphasize that I'm not set in stone. And at this early phase, I'm just trying to take everything in--my gut still suspects a SB/Elie pair, but it's a weak gutread and there's just about as much "concrete" evidence for a fair few others.

[Darros]

I would like to let you all know I'm alive. Because I haven't been here for like 3 days, just a few quick ((like 2 second) checks. Time to do some reading, hopefully I don't fall asleep.

[Kay]

I'm trying to take a holistic look at things--see which combinations of players make sense and explain why they're acting as they are. That said, I'm mostly just confused at the moment.

That sounds to me like a a fancier way to say that yes, you're looking for associative reads. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Skimmed through some stuff. Terra looks like dumbtown instead of scum, although I do think the whole "this isn't a serious read" thing was not good. Eli's overreaction to Kirsche arguing with him is worse. Strege's vote was silly but Eli is worse. People should definitely claim previous roles, I'm not sure about whether to use the 1-shots but I would lean toward thinking it would be good to hold onto them until the player with the role thinks they have a useful target, instead of just deciding to use them or not use them. Clearing people is cool and all, but I don't like the idea of just throwing most of our PRs out the window immediately for a few clears and maybe some other info if we're lucky.

Also, I think I'm missing something. Where was it specified that the cop is a rolecop?

##Vote: Elieson

[Kay]

also Prims is a doofus but I think it's a nulltell

[Strege]

##Unvote

Mafia can't use those roles so if they claim they do and someone else gets it then we know they're lying. Fakeclaiming would be hard for scum.

Hmmm, in fact, asking people to not use their one shots is kinda iffy because scum literally couldn't use their one shots so it's like trying to hide the scum by making everyone do it.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

I still don't understand the logic on the second paragraph; could you try me one more time? How would this hide scum?

I already explained that I was suggesting the plan as a means of promoting discussion, so I didn't feel the need to repeat myself.

also suck it bbm i have way more posts that you

If you think Wallcrab is scummy then why not bring up the fact that the more relevant part of his argument is refuted in your post 76? Not pointing it out looks like either weak commitment to pushing him or ignoring the opportunity to amend a flawed argument (not super protown).

Strege realized his own contradiction, that when he voted for Bearclaw, he said that he found Bearclaw's initial post overthought because of the lack of vote. Now, I know he's too fat to be out on a walk for so long, so my vote stays until he explains that further.

Prims's apathy is extreme enough that I'm inclined to think too apathetic for scum.

NNR, in someone's flip, do you announce what their role was at that time? And if they were the holder of a 1-shot role they used on the night of their death, if role at moment of death is announced, will it reveal the 1-shot role or will it say Vanilla?

Classic logical fallacy: if I am fat then it would take me longer to take a walk, wouldn't it? Newbscum imo.

idk what explanation you're specifically looking for. I realize now that I was imagining some flaily-ness in Wallcrab's first posts that clearly doesn't exist -- I don't know why -- and then misunderstood my own comments along the way somehow. One would be forgiven for finding that scummy, of course. Right now the only scummy thing I see from Wallcrab is the SB vote that everyone and their mother agrees looks bad. Mild scumread and I'm awaiting his promised content.

Well... this certainly progressed further than expected...

Uh, ok. I think most of the arguing about claiming or not is not especially a scum tell or town tell. I think Prims claiming vig is basically what I'd expect from Prims no matter what, but the attitude he has right now is actually making me lean a bit more town than scum. I dunno, it just feels more like the way he'd act as town. Then again, I don't really have much data to work with from when he's scum, buuuuuut, I'm not going to try to fall to heavily into meta right now. Basically, I don't think his attitude makes him scum.

As for who I do think is scum... Honestly I'm not 100% sure right now. There's not been a lot of actual discussion outside of role discussion, which makes it hard for me to read people. One thing I'm not really liking is Terra. He starts off by saying that he finds Elie/SB scummy because he thinks they're too smart to be doing what they're doing, misreps Elie's "claim", but then is super waffly about his vote saying that "Oh, it's just an ED1 vote, don't take it too seriously." And then when people start calling him on the bit with Elie, he starts backing off real quick and saying things like "Oh, maybe I'm just being paranoid, I don't know" etc. further allowing for easy switching of opinions later down the line. He then rapidly drops the subject and instead switches to role discussion, possibly in an attempt to get the attention off of him.

##Vote: Terrador

Things that irk me about scorri's Terra case:

-saying Terra misrepped Elie without providing scum intent, and when Terra brings that up scorri doesn't address it.

-calling out Terra for backing off on "the bit with Elie" when he really only backed off on the Elie-SB interaction observation

-suggesting Terra diverted discussion because he asked the mod a question (but didn't follow it up, so where is the diversion there?). All of Terra's content has been somehow related to roles as well, so I don't see this as a diversion (this part is mostly me disagreeing but w/e)

which seems like a lot out of two posts. A nullread on one facet of Prims's play also doesn't contribute a bunch, and overall I do find scorri somewhat scummy.

I think I find SB more scummy though. His Objection vote could have been serious and might be scummy in its vagueness, but it also seems odd that he'd point out something which could legitimately be considered scummy (at least in RVS) and then not push on it at all. His decision to promote discussion through roletalk is otherwise fine, but we haven't seen much scumhunting from him despite decent activity from him and from a good portion of players. Wallcrab's case against him is suspect but I think his response has also been suspect.

#Vote: SB

I also think Terra is slightly scummy for saying people shouldn't look at his vote; I just happen to find scorri's case against him suspect, and that case has been all of her content so I can't analyze anything else there.

@NNR: Do town have a one-shot alignment cop or a one-shot rolecop?

[Strege]

##Unvote, ##Vote: SB

I just messed up the formatting.

[Strege]

Unofficial Votals Yo:

Gregor (1): Elieson

Wallcrab (4): mafia sucks, EssBee, Strege, Refa

scorri (1): Objection!

Elieson (2): Terrador, Kay

Strege (1): BBM

EssBee (2): Lonely Wallcrab, Strege

mafia sucks (1): kirsche

Terrador (1): scorri

Voteless Scum: no bros

[Strege]

Let's Try That One Again:

Gregor (1): Elieson

Wallcrab (3): mafia sucks, EssBee, Refa

scorri (1): Objection!

Elieson (2): Terrador, Kay

Strege (1): BBM

EssBee (2): Lonely Wallcrab, Strege

mafia sucks (1): kirsche

Terrador (1): scorri

Voteless Scum: Gregor

[BBM]

Your obesity causes you to get tired quicker, so you'd return home quicker as well. I think the issue here is which variable in t = d/s is affected by your portliness. If speed decreases while distance stays the same, then yes, time increases, but if distance decreases while speed stays the same, then time in fact decreases. And you walk pretty fast, sooooo.

On a more serious note, I don't disagree with most of the stuff Strege says, but it makes me uncomfortable just how many people he finds suspect. He thinks Bearclaw is mildly scummy, he thinks Scorri is scummy, he thinks Terra is a bit suspicious, he finds SB scummy, and he finds Elie a bit suspicious as well. 5/13 (really 5/11 because Objection and Darros have nothing relevant) is quite a lot. I don't really like all of the finger-pointing.

As for a case-by-case basis, I don't like the criticism that Scorri got a lot out of Terra's two posts when two incidentally also happens to be the number of relevant posts that Scorri has made. Yet Strege has enough for a case there? He's also making it out that Scorri is not contributing a lot when she still has more than a lot of other people in the game, and we're only 24 hours into the game. How many scumreads is Scorri required to have?

Kirsche's Prims vote feels... easy. I also don't understand why he voted Prims over his current vote, Elie, or why he chose not to pursue Terra more after pointing out the disclaimer thing.

[Strege]

On a more serious note, I don't disagree with most of the stuff Strege says, but it makes me uncomfortable just how many people he finds suspect. He thinks Bearclaw is mildly scummy, he thinks Scorri is scummy, he thinks Terra is a bit suspicious, he finds SB scummy, and he finds Elie a bit suspicious as well. 5/13 (really 5/11 because Objection and Darros have nothing relevant) is quite a lot. I don't really like all of the finger-pointing.

As for a case-by-case basis, I don't like the criticism that Scorri got a lot out of Terra's two posts when two incidentally also happens to be the number of relevant posts that Scorri has made. Yet Strege has enough for a case there? He's also making it out that Scorri is not contributing a lot when she still has more than a lot of other people in the game, and we're only 24 hours into the game. How many scumreads is Scorri required to have?

First part whatevs. My Wallcrab, Elie, and Terra suspicions are fairly mild for what it's worth, but I don't know if I can even fight this kind of argument.

I meant that I noticed a lot of scummy stuff in scorri's only two posts, which makes it seem particularly bad due to density, not that scorri's case was bad because of some focus on a few posts of Terrador's. I didn't mean that scorri wasn't contributing either -- just that her lengthy nullread on one aspect of Prims's play should not be mistaken for solid content.

[Prims]

On a more serious note, I don't disagree with most of the stuff Strege says, but it makes me uncomfortable just how many people he finds suspect. He thinks Bearclaw is mildly scummy, he thinks Scorri is scummy, he thinks Terra is a bit suspicious, he finds SB scummy, and he finds Elie a bit suspicious as well. 5/13 (really 5/11 because Objection and Darros have nothing relevant) is quite a lot. I don't really like all of the finger-pointing.

##Unvote

##Vote: BBM

people used to vote you for this all the time, and you were town. why is it okay for you to do this but not strege

[Strege]

Oh and BBM way to not point out that SB also didn't move his vote from Wallcrab after he explained it with personal preference you mean jerk.

Not sure if I can find SB scummy for that because I got lost in that forest but that actually seems bad on BBM.

AND DANGIT I STARTED WRITING THIS POST BEFORE PRIMS'S CAME UP

[Prims]

tbh i dont really feel like starting a new mafia game, nnr just forced me to sign up for this and i was like "lol ok" because whatever it's mafia

but i'm having a bunch of issues with what could probably be described as depression and i just can't seem to focus on this game or really think about anything anyone says

So Yeah

idk if ill sub out but i don't really have thoughts on this game. best case scenario it's just a short slump and i'll feel better in a few days but this has been happening to me more than usual for at least a month

[Strege]

I'm sorry to hear that Prims. I understand the feeling, and while we'd of course appreciate hearing anything you have to say I wish foremost that you may feel better soon.

[BBM]

To the best of my knowledge, the only game in which I was under fire for having a lot of suspicions was Chilean, a game where I was scum. I can't remember people voting me for it in games where I was town.

@Strege- Okay, I misinterpreted what you meant by the two post thing. Anyways, SB never expressed suspicion of anyone other than Bearclaw while he was voting for him, so there was never an issue of holding down a weak vote while pursuing others. His initial Bearclaw vote also seemed much more like a reaction test to me due to the rather strong wording in it.

[BBM]

Also, what's the point of pointing out that Scorri's lengthy nullread on Prims should not be mistaken for content if the goal is not to make the case that she has little content? Seems rather pointless to just say "Yeah, that one paragraph of her's doesn't say much, but she's still contributing".

[NekoRex]

The "More Open Then The Salt Lake Flats" Votecount

Gregor (1): Elieson

Wallcrab (2): , EssBee, Refa

scorri (1): Objection!

Elieson (2): Terrador, Kay

Strege (1): BBM

EssBee (2): Lonely Wallcrab, Strege

mafia sucks (1): kirsche

Terrador (1): scorri

BBM (1): mafia sucks

Voteless Scum: Gregor

There are 48 Hours left in the Day Phase. It takes 7 Votes to lynch a player.

From the desk of NekoRex:

Hammer to Lynch is standard fare for me, but I guess I forgot to add it to the rules. Consider it to be in effect.

[NekoRex]

Also, uh, sorry Prims for forcing you to be shanghai'd into the game. I just thought you would anyway since I was hosting it *shrug*

I probably should have taken better notice you weren't doing too hot since the last game or two. If you want, I can tack Shinori in your spot.

[The Objection!]

Sorry I haven't been able too contribute much because loltimezoneslol.

@kirsche: you wrote my name wrong lol.

On a more serious note, I'm currently focusing on Terrador and Elieson.

Terra basically admitted that he have no scumreads which is kinda bad at this point, but Elie has it worse since he has sooo much post and not a single scumread, ideas are fine but scumreading with what you have at the moment is better. Looks like an attempt to look active without actually helping to me.

So, ##Unvote ##Vote:Elieson

[Prims]

i'll give it a day, if i still cant get into the game by tomorrow i'll request a sub. sorry, i do want to play but i'm just really drained rn

[Zkirsche]

I still don't understand the logic on the second paragraph; could you try me one more time? How would this hide scum?

In retrospect it doesn't really hide scum at all; I was thinking that it would give scum an easier time claiming what they had early on, but that wouldn't matter because they wouldn't be able to use what they had early on regardless because of the plan to not use stuff N1.

I also don't understand why he voted Prims over his current vote, Elie, or why he chose not to pursue Terra more after pointing out the disclaimer thing.

Prims gave me the impression that he was trying to lurk but failing at being inconspicuous about it but it turns out he's just really demoralised IRL and I know how that feels.

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

Despite my original logic being a bit dodgy, I retain that everyone holding on to thier actions until midgame is a scummy idea and that he was being overdefensive about my vote.

[Strege]

@Strege- Okay, I misinterpreted what you meant by the two post thing. Anyways, SB never expressed suspicion of anyone other than Bearclaw while he was voting for him, so there was never an issue of holding down a weak vote while pursuing others. His initial Bearclaw vote also seemed much more like a reaction test to me due to the rather strong wording in it.

Alright, seems legit enough.

Also, what's the point of pointing out that Scorri's lengthy nullread on Prims should not be mistaken for content if the goal is not to make the case that she has little content? Seems rather pointless to just say "Yeah, that one paragraph of her's doesn't say much, but she's still contributing".

I don't understand what you mean by, or where you're getting, the last clause of the quoted paraphrasing there, but I mentioned the paragraph because it struck me as fluffy. It's a paragraph which could be a sentence -- a sentence you had already said in fact. It also seemed weird that scorri picked up on kirsche's Prims vote of all things but eh. It wasn't and isn't a major point by any stretch but I thought it was worth mentioning.

kirsche, do you have any other scumreads right now? (same question to BBM, and prolly a few other people)