PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Czar_Yoshi]

Donnel!Kjelle has +1 Str and -1 Mag. That difference will only matter if you have a specific threshold you want her to pass, and if you're so desperate for an extra point of damage it would be far easier to rework your strategy to have someone else do it (Donnel!Kjelle has the lowest net 2nd gen offensive mods in the game barring some derpy Avatar pairings, other Kjelles and Frederick/Gaius!Cynthia). Ergo, Kjelle can be a Valkyrie if she wants.

She doesn't want to though, mostly because she's one of the better candidates for Bride and their pairup bonus is fun to play around with (+Mag/Spd with physical attacks).

[MelonGx]

Valkyrie!Donnel!Kjelle 's firepower really sucks.

I use her on Apo SR LTC because she has a native Deliverer.

Skillset: LB,Luna,Deliverer,All+2,Gale

ATK: 42-1+10+10+2+2+11=75

VS Boss Berserker in the front (with a Sage at the back):

[Full Power] Int[int[(75+9-58)/2]/2]*A + Int[int[(75+9-58+RoundUp(55/2))/2]/2]*(4-A) = 24~52

[2-hit] Int[int[(75+9-58)/2]/2]*B + Int[int[(75+9-58+RoundUp(55/2))/2]/2]*(2-B) = 12~26

VS Boss Berserker at the back:

[Full Power] Int[(75-58)/2]*2A = 16A = 0~64

[4-hit] Int[(75-58)/2]*2B = 16B = 0~32

A={0,1,2,3,4}

B={0,1,2}

Comparing with DF!Henry!Cynthia in LB/Luna/TF/Mov+1/Gale, Cynthia has 7 MT higher, which deals 2 more damage per hit in the front, or 4 more damage per hit at the back (aka. 8 more damage per DS activating).

So here is DF!Henry!Cynthia's VS Boss Berserker data:

[Front, Full Power] 32~60

[Front, 2-hit] 16~30

[back, Full Power] 0~96

[back, 4-hit] 0~48

Typical Sage (Mag+0, LB/Agg/TF/Luna/Gale)'s VS Boss Berserker data:

[Front, Full Power] 44~72

[Front, 2-hit] 22~36

[back, Full Power] 0~144

[back, 4-hit] 0~72

Edited April 23, 2014 by MelonGx

[Duke of Dozel]

I'm about to recruit Gerome, and I'm struggling to decide what female exclusive skill should I pass down.

I'd also like to know what Dual Support even does?

[Shadow Mir]

I'm about to recruit Gerome, and I'm struggling to decide what female exclusive skill should I pass down.

I'd also like to know what Dual Support even does?

Dual Support+ increases the dual support bonuses by 4 levels (ergo, with no support, you only get +10 to hit; DSup+ makes this +15 Hit and +10 to Ddg, Crit, and Avo).

[MelonGx]

I'm about to recruit Gerome, and I'm struggling to decide what female exclusive skill should I pass down.

I'd also like to know what Dual Support even does?

Dual Support is not so efficient (Hit+5 Avo+5~10 and some Crits) but still better than other exclusive skills.

Japanese always pass Demoiselle just for fun - Demoiselle doesn't affect equipper even it's equipped on a boy.

Edited April 24, 2014 by MelonGx

[Viviphy]

Alright, so before I got into reading about or really knowing about passing down skills I was already pretty well done my first file. I did however, fluke into pairing my units in some very favorable child stat modifiers and whatnot. However, I didn't pass very many skills like Gale Force to my male children and whatnot.

Sooooo, I am starting Lunatic with a male MU now, only on chapter 1 as of now, and I intend to do these pairing:

MU x Nowi = Morgan + Nah Manaketes

Chrom x Olivia = Lucina + Inigo

Lissa x Stahl = Owain

Miriel x Ricken = Laurent

Sumia x Fredi = Cynthia

Cordelia x Lon'qu = Severa

Cherche x Vaike = Gerome

Tharja x Libra = Noire

Sully x Donnel = Kjelle

Panne x Gregor = Yarne

Maribelle x Henry = Brady

However, I am struggling to figure out the best skills to pass down to the children, minus the obvious Gale Force from most the mothers. Any help would be appreciated as I intend to make this army as optimized as possible.

[MelonGx]

Stahl x Lissa: B

Ricken x Miriel: B

Fred x Sumia: B

Libra x Tharja: C

Gregor x Panne: B

Others are A.

[Viviphy]

Stahl x Lissa: B

Ricken x Miriel: B

Fred x Sumia: B

Libra x Tharja: C

Gregor x Panne: B

Others are A.

Sorry, what do these letters represent? I assume it refers to whether the pairing is optimal or not? Or is there something I'm missing. Also, what changes might you suggest as I haven't set anything in stone with this file yet.

[MelonGx]

It's personal rating.

A stands for both skill and stats optimized.

B stands for (1) stats unoptimized or (2) lacking extension skills or (3) important class overlapped.

C stands for lacking important skills.

Edited April 24, 2014 by MelonGx

[Czar_Yoshi]

Alright, so before I got into reading about or really knowing about passing down skills I was already pretty well done my first file. I did however, fluke into pairing my units in some very favorable child stat modifiers and whatnot. However, I didn't pass very many skills like Gale Force to my male children and whatnot.

Sooooo, I am starting Lunatic with a male MU now, only on chapter 1 as of now, and I intend to do these pairing:

MU x Nowi = Morgan + Nah Manaketes Many will recommend 3rd gen Morgan for an extra 2nd gen pairing, but if you're not doing that then this is good. What's your Asset/Flaw?

Chrom x Olivia = Lucina + Inigo Anyone except Sully and Maiden give good Lucinas, Inigo gets everything he wants from this. Good.

Lissa x Stahl = Owain Owain would prefer his mods to be more magically inclined, and Stahl's Myrmidon is wasted on him, but he at least gets Luna.

Miriel x Ricken = Laurent Laurent already has decent Mag, what he wants is Vantage which Ricken doesn't give. I'd swap Ricken and Stahl.

Sumia x Fredi = Cynthia Great for maingame but postgame Cynthia's mods will be a mess. Henry and Chrom are her ideal fathers.

Cordelia x Lon'qu = Severa Great. Make sure to pair her with Gerome.

Cherche x Vaike = Gerome Great. Make sure to pair him with Severa.

Tharja x Libra = Noire Dark Mage overlap and no Galeforce. Since your Gaius isn't in use, swap Libra out for him.

Sully x Donnel = Kjelle Great.

Panne x Gregor = Yarne Good if Gregor isn't needed elsewhere.

Maribelle x Henry = Brady Brady doesn't care who his dad is as long as he doesn't get his Mag lowered, as he gets all his skills from Maribelle already. You could give him Libra to free up Henry for Cynthia.

However, I am struggling to figure out the best skills to pass down to the children, minus the obvious Gale Force from most the mothers. Any help would be appreciated as I intend to make this army as optimized as possible.

Manakete Morgan and Nah don't really benefit from any of the male-exclusive skills when Manaketes, so pass something to make training easier (probably Despoil, Axefaire works too). Nowi can pass down whatever.

Inigo needs Galeforce, Lucina doesn't matter (you could pass Lck+4 because she can't get it otherwise, but it won't be used). Chrom's passdowns are fixed.

Lissa passes Galeforce, Stahl passes anything.

Miriel doesn't matter much, but I'd go with DS+. Her husband doesn't matter.

Sumia doesn't matter, if paired with Henry I'd have him pass down Axefaire or Despoil (again, for training).

Cordelia and Lon'qu both don't matter.

Cherche should pass down DS+ and Vaike doesn't matter.

Tharja doesn't matter, Gaius should pass Sol (mostly for training).

Sully doesn't matter. Underdog is probably Donnel's best bet.

Panne should pass Str+2 or Swordbreaker if not marrying a Wyvern husband (Frederick is typically used), her husband doesn't matter.

Maribelle should pass Galeforce and her husband can pass anything.

[Raftina]

If your MU marries a gen 1, then you will have 1 child that is unable to marry (7 children of Morgan's sex and 6 opposite of Morgan's sex). This means you can have 1 child that you can comfortably bench (it is generally better to deploy a gen 1 married pair than a gen 2+parent because of the difference in dual strike chance), either to accomodate better parentage for the other children or to accomodate personal preferences in pairings.

In your case, if you prefer TharjaxLibra a lot, you can simply leave Noire as the unmarried child. Alternatively, if you insist on SumiaxFrederick a lot, Cynthia can be the unmarried child.

[Viviphy]

It's personal rating.

A stands for both skill and stats optimized.

B stands for (1) stats unoptimized or (2) lacking extension skills or (3) important class overlapped.

C stands for lacking important skills.

Ah, I see! Thanks for the clarification.

Manakete Morgan and Nah don't really benefit from any of the male-exclusive skills when Manaketes, so pass something to make training easier (probably Despoil, Axefaire works too). Nowi can pass down whatever.

Inigo needs Galeforce, Lucina doesn't matter (you could pass Lck+4 because she can't get it otherwise, but it won't be used). Chrom's passdowns are fixed.

Lissa passes Galeforce, Stahl passes anything.

Miriel doesn't matter much, but I'd go with DS+. Her husband doesn't matter.

Sumia doesn't matter, if paired with Henry I'd have him pass down Axefaire or Despoil (again, for training).

Cordelia and Lon'qu both don't matter.

Cherche should pass down DS+ and Vaike doesn't matter.

Tharja doesn't matter, Gaius should pass Sol (mostly for training).

Sully doesn't matter. Underdog is probably Donnel's best bet.

Panne should pass Str+2 or Swordbreaker if not marrying a Wyvern husband (Frederick is typically used), her husband doesn't matter.

Maribelle should pass Galeforce and her husband can pass anything.

My asset is Speed and my flaw is Luck (I wasn't sure what to choose as a flaw and figured luck was one of the better choices). I did third gen Morgan before which was awesome but wanna' try the Manakete twins.

I'm a bit stumped as to why Owain and Cynthia would prefer magic users as fathers; I understand Lissa doesn't pass down physical modifiers for Owain but figured Stahl could help with that. Which magic using father is best for him? And why is Henry best for Cynthia's father, what does he gain? (Sorry for my lack of knowledge, just getting into the depth of this team building bit). Thanks for the suggestions and help.

If your MU marries a gen 1, then you will have 1 child that is unable to marry (7 children of Morgan's sex and 6 opposite of Morgan's sex). This means you can have 1 child that you can comfortably bench (it is generally better to deploy a gen 1 married pair than a gen 2+parent because of the difference in dual strike chance), either to accomodate better parentage for the other children or to accomodate personal preferences in pairings.

In your case, if you prefer TharjaxLibra a lot, you can simply leave Noire as the unmarried child. Alternatively, if you insist on SumiaxFrederick a lot, Cynthia can be the unmarried child.

I'm fine with benching one of the children and I read about the manakete children and wanted to see what they are like. On my first file I have third generation Morgan from Sumia!Lucina.

As for those two pairings, I thought they would be alright; not having Galeforce on Noire isn't a huge deal for me and I thought Fredi was a good husband for Sumia but I am finding out from these posts that this isn't so (I knew Chrom was her best husband but I want to try him with Olivia)

[Raftina]

Comments on pairings?

gen 1

FeMU x Chrom (+spd/-luk)

Lissa x Ricken

Cherche x Frederick

Sully x Vaike

Cordelia x Stahl

Miriel x Gregor

Sumia x Henry

Olivia x Kellam

Maribelle x Lon'qu

Nowi x Donnel

Tharja x Gaius

gen 2

Lucina x Laurent

Nah x Morgan

Noire x Inigo

Cynthia x Owain

Severa x Gerome

Brady x Kjelle

forever alone

Libra

Virion

Panne

[Duke of Dozel]

I'm a bit stumped as to why Owain and Cynthia would prefer magic users as fathers; I understand Lissa doesn't pass down physical modifiers for Owain but figured Stahl could help with that.

Owain will always get a good magic boost. As stated before, his myrmidon class is wasted since Owain gets it by default.

However, Stahl does pass down good caps, with all of them having an increase. It's just recommended that Owain excels in magic, since he's good to begin with.

Henry might be a MAG unit, but he's the best physical father out of them all. His caps and skills help Cynthia out the most if Chrom's taken.

[Viviphy]

Alright, I'm starting to understand the first gen pairings better now. Here are my revised pairings:

Unit: Skills to pass:

MaMU x Nowi ???

Chrom x Olivia Rightful Kng/Aether and Galeforce

Lissa x Ricken Galeforce and ?

Miriel x Gregor DS+/Tomefaire and Vantage(?)

Sumia x Henry Galeforce and ?

Cordelia x Lon'qu Galeforce and ?

Cherche x Vaike DS+ and ?

Tharja x Gaius ? and Sol

Sully x Donnel Luna and Counter/Aptitude

Panne x Fredi Swordbreaker/Str+2 and ?

Maribelle x Libra Galeforce and ?

Next I just need to worry about what skills to ensure I pass down. Then after that I will worry about my second generation pairings/classes. I know all the places to pass on Galeforce but I'm not sure about everything else. Might need help with that. I listed what I have in mind thus far.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Ah, I see! Thanks for the clarification.

My asset is Speed and my flaw is Luck (I wasn't sure what to choose as a flaw and figured luck was one of the better choices). I did third gen Morgan before which was awesome but wanna' try the Manakete twins.

I'm a bit stumped as to why Owain and Cynthia would prefer magic users as fathers; I understand Lissa doesn't pass down physical modifiers for Owain but figured Stahl could help with that. Which magic using father is best for him? And why is Henry best for Cynthia's father, what does he gain? (Sorry for my lack of knowledge, just getting into the depth of this team building bit). Thanks for the suggestions and help.

I'm fine with benching one of the children and I read about the manakete children and wanted to see what they are like. On my first file I have third generation Morgan from Sumia!Lucina.

As for those two pairings, I thought they would be alright; not having Galeforce on Noire isn't a huge deal for me and I thought Fredi was a good husband for Sumia but I am finding out from these posts that this isn't so (I knew Chrom was her best husband but I want to try him with Olivia)

+Spd/-Lck works for Nowi. You won't have any standout stats, but no bad ones either.

Both Lissa and Sumia have -2 Str mods, Sumia has 0 Mag and Lissa has 2. Magic is generally more powerful than physical as well because enemies tend to favor Def and there are no 1-2 range Brave physical weapons. They just perform all around better as Sages (or Dark Flier in Cynthia's case). While that 4 damage difference doesn't seem like much (2 with Cynthia), there's absolutely no reason to use a unit over an otherwise identical unit with 2-4 more atk, and thus it's actually a crippling flaw.

Reasoning for Sumia x Henry: Sumia's pairs are limited to Chrom, Avatar, Gaius, Fred and Henry. Gaius is permanently attached to Tharja (and gives class overlap if you do put him with Sumia), Frederick gives horrible mod clash with Cynthia and Avatar is also busy elsewhere, leaving Chrom and Henry. Chrom doesn't hurt Sumia's Mag, gives her more Spd and Aether, and she already has a great skillset from Sumia in LB/GF/TF/Luna/filler (Aether from Chrom). Henry, on the other hand, boosts her Mag and gives her Anathema as a support skill and Vengeance as an alternate proc.

Comments on pairings?

gen 1

FeMU x Chrom (+spd/-luk) Worst Morgan-M and a pairing imbalance, not advised.

Lissa x Ricken Good.

Cherche x Frederick Gerome lacks Berserker, bad.

Sully x Vaike Kjelle lacks Galeforce.

Cordelia x Stahl OK.

Miriel x Gregor Good.

Sumia x Henry Good.

Olivia x Kellam OK.

Maribelle x Lon'qu OK.

Nowi x Donnel Sully wants Donnel more.

Tharja x Gaius Good.

gen 2

Lucina x Laurent Lucina wants +Mag for this, otherwise good.

Nah x Morgan Morgan should marry someone with a proc.

Noire x Inigo OK.

Cynthia x Owain Good.

Severa x Gerome Great if you give Gerome Berserker.

Brady x Kjelle Pairing a physical unit with a magical unit = very bad.

Alright, I'm starting to understand the first gen pairings better now. Here are my revised pairings:

Unit: Skills to pass:

MaMU x Nowi ???

Chrom x Olivia Rightful Kng/Aether and Galeforce

Lissa x Ricken Galeforce and ?

Miriel x Gregor DS+/Tomefaire and Vantage(?)

Sumia x Henry Galeforce and ?

Cordelia x Lon'qu Galeforce and ?

Cherche x Vaike DS+ and ?

Tharja x Gaius ? and Sol

Sully x Donnel Luna and Counter/Aptitude

Panne x Fredi Swordbreaker/Str+2 and ?

Maribelle x Libra Galeforce and ?

Next I just need to worry about what skills to ensure I pass down. Then after that I will worry about my second generation pairings/classes. I know all the places to pass on Galeforce but I'm not sure about everything else. Might need help with that. I listed what I have in mind thus far.

Passing Galeforce doesn't do anything except speed up training very slightly if the child can already get it. All parents who give all of their classes to their child don't matter, so pass the best skill for training you have at the time.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[MelonGx]

Donnel!Kjelle has both a bad physical output and a bad magical output, unless she becomes GK, General or Wyvern Lord. But GK and General's Spd are too bad to double even Apo's non-bosses.

On the other hand, Kjelle is the most probable 2nd-gen girl to have both Galeforce and Deliverer, and Apo does require a unit with all the Gale+Deliverer, a not-bad magical output and staff access for some quick challenge. For this purpose, Valkyrie!Donnel!Kjelle has been used.

So I'll rate Kjelle x Brady alternative.

P.S. Possible Gale+Deliverer(+Luna):

* Vengeance needs setting up but an LTC hardly provide such a chance to set it up.

FeMU

Morgan

FeMU!Lucina

MaMU!Owain

MaMU/Fred!Inigo

MaMU/Fred/Virion/Lon'qu!Brady

MaMU/Gaius/Donnel!Kjelle

MaMU/Fred!Cynthia

MaMU/Fred!Severa

MaMU!Noire

MaMU!Nah

If regardless proc, we still have:

Virion/Lon'qu!Severa

Say'ri

Aversa

Edited April 25, 2014 by MelonGx

[Raftina]

gen 1

FeMU x Chrom (+spd/-luk) Worst Morgan-M and a pairing imbalance, not advised.

This is actually much less important than you think: The only enemies that can survive a vantage attack are the 99 hp/64 def/55 res/Aegis+ berserkers, though admittedly I only eyeballed the enemies below SR4. See attached spreadsheet for damage calculations (note that I did not account for dark flier weakness, but it made no difference).

gen 2

Lucina x Laurent Lucina wants +Mag for this, otherwise good.

This is not important, as the only enemy that might threaten this pair are the Aegis+ enemies, where the difference between +mag and +spd is 2 damage on the vantage attack. In any case, I do not believe there is any enemy that can survive a vantage attack from this pair at all.

Some of the calculations would change if I use a no DLC skill restriction, but I believe it is still only berserkers with Aegis+ that are problematic, possibly some others because Chrom would have to go sniper to have 100% DS.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Raftina

[MelonGx]

Celica VV Tank vs. Boss Berserker

(A-58+42)/2 + (B-58)*2 = 100

A/2 + 2B = 224

(If A/4 or B/2 isn't integer, then round down A/4 and B/2.)

If

B = Mag.0 Lucina's ATK = 46+0+20+5+2+11 = 84

Then

A = (224-84*2)*2 = 112

A' = A-9 = 103 (Sage's Mag Boost)

...... It's still unable to achieve it even with RLM.

But if the Celica VV Tank is FeMU!Lucina / Gerome, then it seems possible:

(A-58+42)/2 + (B-67)*2 = 100

A/2 + 2B = 242

If B = Gregor!Gerome's ATK = 50+6+20+5+2+2+18 = 103 -> 102

Then A = (242-204)*2 = 76

A' = A-3 = 73 (Berserker's Mag Boost)

..... Still anyone says Lucina x Gerome sucks?

Edited April 25, 2014 by MelonGx

[Raftina]

Celica VV Tank vs. Boss Berserker

(A-58+42)/2 + (B-58)*2 = 100

A/2 + 2B = 224

(If A/4 or B/2 isn't integer, then round down A/4 and B/2.)

If

B = Mag.0 Lucina's ATK = 46+0+20+5+2+11 = 84

Then

A = (224-84*2)*2 = 112

A' = A-9 = 103 (Sage's Mag Boost)

...... It's still unable to achieve it even with RLM.

I will have to re-examine this formula and the one in my spreadsheet to see why my spreadsheet gives higher damage numbers than your formula. But a few things to note:

1. Dragonskin and Aegis truncating occurs each division, and it's based on attack-defense, not attack by itself. Rounding at the end can overestimate active position damage by 2. It turns out that with the throne bonus (which I did not account for in my last post), and using your formula, the Celica damage is on the cusp, so using the correct rounding can be important.

2. The strongest pure Celica VV user is FeMU!Lucina active and Libra!Laurent support, assuming you want to reserve Ricken for other inheritance, because hard support Laurent can stack LB, TF, AS+2, Mag+2 without giving up anything (except time needed to farm gold). Using Lucina has support deliberately lowers damage from this setup.

3. It's an enemy that's stuck on the throne and doesn't have Vantage+. Whether a VV user without Aggressor can kill it in the vantage round is academic.

[Viviphy]

I've read that Lon'qu!Severa is best suited for a Sorcerer end class, while Stahl!Severa makes a better Hero end class. Since I plan to use her as a hero should I make this switch or will she be fine with Lon'qu as her father?

[Duke of Dozel]

Lon'qu!Severa makes a good anything, but go with Hero Stahl, since she'll be well rounded and have higher physical mods. Or you could go Sniper, another good choice.

[Raftina]

The reason people say that is because Lon'qu!Severa sorcerer can double a few enemies that Stahl!Severa sorcerer cannot (specifically the 70 spd snipers, 70 spd merchant, and 64 spd berserker).

Lon'qu!Severa as a hero is fine. Attack stat on the primary unit can make a difference, but in most cases it doesn't.

[Czar_Yoshi]

gen 1

FeMU x Chrom (+spd/-luk) Worst Morgan-M and a pairing imbalance, not advised.

This is actually much less important than you think: The only enemies that can survive a vantage attack are the 99 hp/64 def/55 res/Aegis+ berserkers, though admittedly I only eyeballed the enemies below SR4. See attached spreadsheet for damage calculations (note that I did not account for dark flier weakness, but it made no difference).

gen 2

Lucina x Laurent Lucina wants +Mag for this, otherwise good.

This is not important, as the only enemy that might threaten this pair are the Aegis+ enemies, where the difference between +mag and +spd is 2 damage on the vantage attack. In any case, I do not believe there is any enemy that can survive a vantage attack from this pair at all.

Some of the calculations would change if I use a no DLC skill restriction, but I believe it is still only berserkers with Aegis+ that are problematic, possibly some others because Chrom would have to go sniper to have 100% DS.

I'm not sure what you're doing here. If Lucina is supporting Laurent while Laurent sweeps with Celica's, swap Avatar for Maribelle and let Avatar marry 2nd gen for an extra pairing.

Lon'qu!Severa: I don't like her as a Sorc, as a Hero she makes a great dodgetank but I usually have her as a Wyvern Lord because she can still reasonably hit 75 Spd.

[Viviphy]

Cool, if that is the case then I'll just stick with Lon'qu!Severa for this playthrough and do Stahl!Severa on my next file.

I have another question about asset and flaws for my pairings:

If I do MaMU x Nowi for Morgan and Nah which asset and flaw would be best? I am playing Lunatic here and understand in-game Speed or Defense are typically most useful but I want to also consider the children and post game as I'm optimizing on this file. Would +Speed / -Luck make the children turn out good (I chose this and am only on chapter 1 so restarting is possible)? Or would there be a better option that won't make Lunatic unbearable (I'm up for a challenge either way).

And further, what asset and flaw would be best for a FeMU x Chrom run? I plan to do this one on Hard mode along side my above Lunatic run.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Viviphy