PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[MelonGx]

Weaknesses:

55% Sol:

1) Failure of not activating Sol

2) Weaponbreakers + 1 or Proc

3) Pavise / Aegis + Vengeance

4) Lethality

100% Sol:

1) Tomebreaker + Proc

2) Aegis + Vengeance

3) Lethality

VV:

1) Tomebreaker

2) Aegis

3) Counterbomb

Lethality / Counterbomb can be covered by PP actions.

Aegis / Breakers can be covered by Dual Strike.

Lacking Sol activation is uncoverable.

Edited May 1, 2014 by MelonGx

[Raftina]

Sol activation can be covered with Vantage+dual strikes, i.e. keep killing the enemies until you get life recovery. This is used to protect against Aegis users who might threaten a VV user.

All setups are vulnerable to counterbombs to some degree. If we include player phase actions, then nostank is actually more vulnerable than Sol and VV, because Sol and VV can be used on 8 flying movement units with Celica's--a combination of hit and run with Galeforce and moving to squares that cannot be reached by 1 range ground enemies to remove Counter activation altogether.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Actually, losing support also means losing the +2 additional bonus stats from pairing, which for GL means 2 spd and 2 luk. That means a loss of 15 avd. You will need to use Outdoor/Indoor Fighter or Lucky 7.

At this point, you are no doubt tempted to say "who cares about that low a chance?" But that was precisely my original point: Nostank is undesirable outside of tanking Counter bombs because VV or Sol is safe enough and isn't tied to sorcerers.

So use +Spd instead of +Mag.

And I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth, because I do happen to care about that chance.

If you're using an Einherjar, the availability point becomes moot (unless you don't like Sorcs because of the way they look, which is a perfectly valid criticism) because they have all classes.

[Piyo]

Hellooo Pairing Thread! /o/

So I'm playing Post-game L+ and I've been wondering if it's possible to make Kellam!Gerome viable (orrr if he's a lost cause; I've already married Cherche & Kellam so I'm past the Point of No Return @_@)

I made plans to do Vaike!Nah & Frederick!Yarne, if it helps to know where those fathers went. x:

Any advice would be much appreciated!

[Raftina]

A note about the pairing discussions here:

In the vast majority of cases, we are arguing about which combination breaks the game more (or which combination gives you more leeway with bad moves), not which is viable or not. A "bad" unit means the unit underperforms a lot compared to what it can do when fully optimized. These are relative to your units' potential, not relative to how well they perform against enemies.

Kellam!Gerome is not a good unit because it lacks a faire for extreme damage and lacks Vantage/Armthrift/Sol/Galeforce for lead versatility. But it makes a perfectly fine support General throwing Brave Axes in people's faces.

[The Geek]

Also, Kellam!Gerome is freaking slow.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Kellam!Gerome is not a good unit because it lacks a faire for extreme damage and lacks Vantage/Armthrift/Sol/Galeforce for lead versatility. But it makes a perfectly fine support General throwing Brave Axes in people's faces.

Actually Gerome does get Sol, though he likely won't use it.

Warrior will also work as a pairup class if you don't like the way Generals work, though General is slightly better (+2 Str on the support > +2 Str on the lead). Assassin might also work well.

If you're using female Avatar x Chrom, you could also just bench Gerome. I don't recommend that pairing, but if you do do it then you'll have 7 boys and 6 girls to pair off, and someone will need to get benched.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Rayhaku808]

I've been playing this game on and off since release. I'm not too big on all the terminology here and have been snooping around for quite some time. I'm going to play hard classic because I don't want to get frustrated with lunatic or L+. I know the pairings I want aren't necessary for this difficulty but I still want my pairings to be more or less optimal. With that in mind, here's what I have so far.

Chrom x Olivia (physical Inigo)

Kellam x Sully (tank kjelle?)

Gaius x Tharja (galeforce Noire)

Stahl x Cordelia (this Severa seems to have good rep. I'm willing to try her out)

Henry x Lissa (Dread Fighter Owain?)

Donnel x Nowi (idk)

Frederick x Panne (support yarne)

Ricken x Maribelle (sage)

Vaike x Cherche

Libra x Miriel

MU x Nowi, Lucina, Cynthia, Anna

Not sure if I got everyone and I'm not sure who I'm going to pair the kids up with. My MU options are what they are because I like spunky chicks.

I'd also like some supports but again, I'm not hardcore stat anal but Galeforce kids would be great. Thanks

Edited May 5, 2014 by Rayhaku808

[Czar_Yoshi]

Alright, you listed Henry twice, forgot Sumia and Tharja gives Noire, not Cynthia. Might want to fix those. Apart from that...

Chrom x Olivia is good. Make sure to pass Inigo Galeforce.

Kellam x Sully gives no Galeforce and redundant Knight. Sully's Def is also too bad for Kjelle to be defensive. Sully's generally accepted best pairing is Donnel, the only other uncontested pairing in the game is Tharja x Gaius.

You didn't mention Sumia, but she really should go with Chrom or Henry.

I personally consider Stahl x Cordelia to be outclassed by Lon'qu x Cordelia (Severa gets more Spd/Mag and worse Def, along with Breakers), but Stahl is definitely not bad.

Henry x Lissa is generally considered inferior to Libra x Lissa because Henry is in higher demand elsewhere, but it's not bad.

Donnel x Nowi: Nah is going to wind up supporting with anyone but Avatar as a father, save Donnel for Sully.

Frederick x Panne: This is arguably Panne's best pairing.

Ricken x Maribelle: All Brady needs is a father who doesn't lower his Mag, if Ricken isn't needed elsewhere then this is fine.

Vaike x Cherche: This is arguably Cherche's best pairing.

Henry x Miriel: double class overlap and Laurent doesn't get Vantage, which is what he really wants. Swap for Lon'qu, Stahl or Gregor.

Avatar: Lucina is generally regarded as Avatar's best pairing, though Avatar x Nowi is the only way to make Nah a lead unit. Do note that Avatar x Nowi requires benching a girl somewhere, so don't do it unless you're prepared for that. Cynthia (do you mean Noire?) works, but the best Cynthia is Chrom!Cynthia who is completely eclipsed by her sister Lucina as a wife for Avatar, so I don't recommend her. Anna is bad. I suppose it boils down to personal taste between Lucina and Nowi.

[The Geek]

Why optimize? The kids kick ass anyway.

[BANRYU]

Why optimize? The kids kick ass anyway.

I think because it's kind of necessary on the higher difficulties... (don't quote me on that) And for some people (*guiltily raises hand*) sometimes it's just fun to optimize.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Why optimize? The kids kick ass anyway.

Clear Secret Apo with no Limit/Agg/Rally and say that again. In the meantime, refer to this post:

A note about the pairing discussions here:

In the vast majority of cases, we are arguing about which combination breaks the game more (or which combination gives you more leeway with bad moves), not which is viable or not. A "bad" unit means the unit underperforms a lot compared to what it can do when fully optimized. These are relative to your units' potential, not relative to how well they perform against enemies.

Yes, every unit is a one-man army in Awakening, but an unoptimized unit is incredibly weak compared to their maximum potential.

I think because it's kind of necessary on the higher difficulties... (don't quote me on that)

Optimization for ingame is very different from postgame optimization, but it's still important on Lunatic(+) nogrind.

[Rayhaku808]

Alright, you listed Henry twice, forgot Sumia and Tharja gives Noire, not Cynthia. Might want to fix those. Apart from that...

My first playthrough I had Gaius with Sumia (Biggest mistake ever) so I attacked Cynthia with Gaius rather than Sumia. I still don't know how that happened.

Henry with Lissa was supposed to be Libra. I must be drunk.

You didn't mention Sumia, but she really should go with Chrom or Henry.

Would make Cynthia a Dark Flier?

I personally consider Stahl x Cordelia to be outclassed by Lon'qu x Cordelia (Severa gets more Spd/Mag and worse Def, along with Breakers), but Stahl is definitely not bad.

I used Lon'qu on my first playthrough but alright I'll do so again.

Henry x Lissa is generally considered inferior to Libra x Lissa because Henry is in higher demand elsewhere, but it's not bad.

Alrighty good. Henry x Lissa was supposed to be Libra but idk what happened there.

Donnel x Nowi: Nah is going to wind up supporting with anyone but Avatar as a father, save Donnel for Sully.

Alright, I don't really wanna sac a girl just for my own selfish reasons. So for Nowi it's... Kellam? Gregor? Stahl?

Ricken x Maribelle: All Brady needs is a father who doesn't lower his Mag, if Ricken isn't needed elsewhere then this is fine.

Would Ricken be better somewhere else? If so, I'm not sure who to swap here.

Vaike x Cherche: This is arguably Cherche's best pairing.

I was considering Stahl for Cherche instead but I'll try not to think about this any further then.

Henry x Miriel: double class overlap and Laurent doesn't get Vantage, which is what he really wants. Swap for Lon'qu, Stahl or Gregor.

Lon'qu is going back to Cordelia. This leaves Stahl or Gregor. Also depends on what I do for Nowi.

Avatar: Lucina is generally regarded as Avatar's best pairing, though Avatar x Nowi is the only way to make Nah a lead unit. Do note that Avatar x Nowi requires benching a girl somewhere, so don't do it unless you're prepared for that. Cynthia (do you mean Noire?) works, but the best Cynthia is Chrom!Cynthia who is completely eclipsed by her sister Lucina as a wife for Avatar, so I don't recommend her. Anna is bad. I suppose it boils down to personal taste between Lucina and Nowi.

I do want some supports so I'll let someone else have Nowi. In case I ever do move Chrom to Sumia, who'd replace him for Olivia?

Thank you very much for your input. My mind is nearly at ease!

[tuvarkz]

Stahl effectively provides Inigo the same skills/classes as Chrom minus RFK; but Stahl's mods are +2 STR while Chrom's are +1 STR +1 SPD

[Czar_Yoshi]

My first playthrough I had Gaius with Sumia (Biggest mistake ever) so I attacked Cynthia with Gaius rather than Sumia. I still don't know how that happened.

Henry with Lissa was supposed to be Libra. I must be drunk.

Would make Cynthia a Dark Flier?

Cynthia is usually a Dark Flier or a Sage.

I used Lon'qu on my first playthrough but alright I'll do so again.

Alrighty good. Henry x Lissa was supposed to be Libra but idk what happened there.

Alright, I don't really wanna sac a girl just for my own selfish reasons. So for Nowi it's... Kellam? Gregor? Stahl?

Nah's father actually doesn't matter much because all she'll be doing is sitting in the back with Tomefaire. Virion is pretty good, if Henry's free he works too, anyone works. Donnel does give Nah Galeforce, the reason he usually goes with Sully instead is that Kjelle already has an offensive proc (Luna), and Nah has none, making it harder for her to get kills to activate Galeforce.

Would Ricken be better somewhere else? If so, I'm not sure who to swap here.

Ricken can also go fine on Cordelia, Olivia, Lissa or even Nowi. But if all of them have suitable pairings, he's just fine here.

I was considering Stahl for Cherche instead but I'll try not to think about this any further then.

The one thing Gerome absolutely needs is Berserker, which means Vaike, Gregor or Henry. Vaike has the highest Str of those so he's the best. Stahl lacks Berserker so he doesn't make a very impressive Gerome.

Lon'qu is going back to Cordelia. This leaves Stahl or Gregor. Also depends on what I do for Nowi.

Then do Gregor, Armsthrift is nice for farming the DLC items/skills in case you find an Aversa's Night (stronger Nosferatu that isn't buyable).

I do want some supports so I'll let someone else have Nowi. In case I ever do move Chrom to Sumia, who'd replace him for Olivia?

Olivia can go well with Stahl, Ricken, Kellam, or Libra- basically anyone that gives Inigo either Luna or Vengeance.

Thank you very much for your input. My mind is nearly at ease!

[BANRYU]

Optimization for ingame is very different from postgame optimization, but it's still important on Lunatic(+) nogrind.

Er oh yeah, that's mainly what I meant, I think I just forgot to specify.

[Raftina]

I used Lon'qu on my first playthrough but alright I'll do so again.

Stahl is typically used to give Severa Luna as a safe damage proc at the same time as Vantage, because Vengeance carries some risk if you don't have 100% dual strike. You get a more versatile Severa despite having worse mods. But because Severa already has a proc, she doesn't need Stahl as much as a child who doesn't have a proc.

One thing you may want to consider here is the effect these pairings have on the parents. Stahl is an awesome support unit because he can go GK with Swordfaire and hit for massive damage. Lon'qu's damage is much less impressive.

Alright, I don't really wanna sac a girl just for my own selfish reasons. So for Nowi it's... Kellam? Gregor? Stahl?

Donnel!Nah is adequate if you are using Limit Breaker and Aggressor. You can shift so much damage to the support character through dual strikes that having a damage proc is mainly a matter of convenience.

For a more optimal father, use Vaike or Libra. Vaike gives Nah Axefaire, Armthrift, and Sol for easy training and a powerful dual strike with Hero or Wyvern Lord. Gregor will also give these benefits, but Gregor is better giving Gerome these benefits (or giving Laurent Vantage and AT).

Would Ricken be better somewhere else? If so, I'm not sure who to swap here.

Ricken is usually used to give someone magic mods and Luna. Severa, Inigo, and Owain can all benefit from him, with Owain being the most natural fit, because his fixed parent is magic biased.

The most common parent you see here is Lon'qu, because he gives decent mods to Brady, who doesn't need anything except mods. If you don't want to use Lon'qu, Virion gives similar mods. Note that unlike with Brady, Virion is not an adequate substitute for Lon'qu as Severa's father, because Severa wants Vantage from Lon'qu (or another myrmidon father).

I was considering Stahl for Cherche instead but I'll try not to think about this any further then.

Stahl works decently for Cherche, though because he's also good for giving things like Luna, Vantage, and sniper to lead characters, he's better off somewhere else.

I do want some supports so I'll let someone else have Nowi. In case I ever do move Chrom to Sumia, who'd replace him for Olivia?

MU, Stahl, or Kellam. The reason people use Chrom x Olivia so much is because Inigo gets the most benefit from having Chrom as his father.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Keep in mind that Virion gives Severa Tomefaire, and is in fact her only +Spd father to do so. He's good, but for different reasons than Lon'qu (although their Severas can still fill many of the same roles, such as Lancefaire Wyvern Lord or Lancebreaker Vengeance Hero).

[MelonGx]

Vantage on Severa = Tank

Tanking on non-Apo = Main strategy

but

Tanking on Apo = Not as easy to handle as Hit & Away

Edited May 5, 2014 by MelonGx

[tuvarkz]

Hmph, actually LB/GF/Luna/Aegis/Res+10 Dread Fighter Ricken!Owain and Libra!Brady handled the Invisorcs quite well in Apo SR.

Edited May 5, 2014 by tuvarkz

[BANRYU]

I didn't realize Virion made such a good father for Severa, and Stahl is actually sounding better for her than I thought, shit.

It's a good thing I'm camping on the S-supports and waiting to release a horde of babies unto the world lol.

[tuvarkz]

Yeah, but Virion only makes a good father for Severa IF you need that speed bonus desperately alongside Tomefaire (If the father doesn't give -spd, Severa starts with at least +3). Else Libra or Ricken are much better fathers if magic oriented, Lon'qu if you want a massive speed boost and Astra, or Stahl for Sniper.

[BANRYU]

It sounds like another benefit of Stahl!Severa (according to Raftina anyway) is that she's also quite versatile in terms of role and class.

Edited May 5, 2014 by BANRYU

[Duke of Dozel]

Lon'qu passes extreme speed and skill caps as well as Vantage. Breakers aren't all that great, but he has those, too.

Stahl provides well-rounded caps, and comes with Vantage AND Luna.


There are other pairings, but unless you want a magical Severa, these are my personal favorites.

Vaike's good as well, but he needs Cherche.


On the other hand, I just realized how great Gregor!Laurent can be.

[BANRYU]

What kind of mods does Gregor give? :0 I figured they were strength-based and stuff, and thus not so useful for Laurent.