PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Duke of Dozel]

Passes 1 STR, 3 MAG, 4 SKL, 2 SPD, and -1 RES.

I was surprised when I saw them myself.

It doesn't hurt that he's one of the few fathers who give Vantage

Edited May 6, 2014 by Duke of Dozel

[MelonGx]

Vantage!Laurent

Stahl - Vantage only

Lon'qu - Vantage, higher Mag Skl Spd

Gregor - Vantage, Armsthrift

MaMU/Gaius - Vantage, nullify his Peg.Knight passdown

Edited May 6, 2014 by MelonGx

[Czar_Yoshi]

Yeah, but Virion only makes a good father for Severa IF you need that speed bonus desperately alongside Tomefaire (If the father doesn't give -spd, Severa starts with at least +3). Else Libra or Ricken are much better fathers if magic oriented, Lon'qu if you want a massive speed boost and Astra, or Stahl for Sniper.

All Libra gives over Virion is 1 Mag in exchange for 2 Spd and some Breakers, removing her ability to dodgetank. Ricken is in high demand elsewhere, Virion isn't.

It sounds like another benefit of Stahl!Severa (according to Raftina anyway) is that she's also quite versatile in terms of role and class.

Not really. She can use the Astra/Luna combo well as an Assassin/Hero, or go VV, but she can't dodgetank, can't be a Lancefaire Wyvern and lacks Tomefaire which hurts the effectiveness of her VV. Essentially she's restricted to PPO- which she can do well, but I wouldn't call it a variety of roles, especially when other Severas can fill such useful niches nobody else can (in Apo challenge runs, anyway).

Gregor!Laurent is one of those units who looks average at best on paper- mod clash, class overlap, no Galeforce or Luna- but is absolutely incredible if you actually use him. For reference, he's only 1 Skl and 1 Mag behind Lon'qu!Laurent.

[BANRYU]

Oh. So Lon'qu!Severa is still probably the best Severa, eh?

Gregor!Laurent sounds quite good, actually.

Supposing that I decide to use him instead of Stahl!Laurent, who would be a good replacement parent for Nowi or Gerome (one of whom was gonna be Gregordaddy, the other being Vaike)?

[Czar_Yoshi]

I consider Lon'qu!Severa to be the best Severa, while she is outclassed by other Severas at certain jobs the ones she can do with Lon'qu are ones that no other unit can fill (Kjelle can Luna/Astra skirmish, Cynthia can be a Tomefaire/Luna DF, etc). Her main two gigs are as a Wyvern Lord or Hero.

Wyvern Lords usually aren't used because they're too slow, but with Severa's +6 Spd/Skl she can make them work with no drawbacks. 38(Base) +6(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +8(Vaike!Gerome@Berserker) +2(tonic) +2(All+2) =76 Spd, enough to double any enemy in Apo using LB/GF/LF/Vengeance/All+2. Note that Virion!Severa can also do this, which is why I also like him as Severa's father. Her atk is 46(base) +2(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +10(Gerome) +5(Lancefaire) +2(tonic) +2(All+2) +17(Brave Lance and WRB) =104 before Vengeance, which is pretty good for a non-agg unit.

On the other hand, as a Hero with Lancebreaker, Vengeance, a Helswath/Tomahawk and some +Spd/Avo skills (also with Vaike!Gerome@Berserker, DS+ and Charm), she can dodgetank Anna even without Limit/Rally, and with them she has a lot more freedom in her skillset. She also gets all the breakers, which is nice on any dodgetanking gig (although you never want more than two equipped at once).

Gerome can go with any of Vaike, Gregor or Henry. Since your Vaike seems to be free, I'd strongly advise giving him to Gerome, passing Gerome DS+ and pairing him with Severa. Nah is sort of fine with anyone, Virion actually works nicely on her if you aren't giving him to Severa or Brady (Virion!Brady is sometimes used because all Brady cares about are mods and all Virion has to offer (to most people) are mods). If you do go for a physical Nah (Axefaire Hero, usually), you'll want to make sure to pair her up with a physical Inigo, which likely means Inigo gets Stahl or Chrom. Magical Nah (LB/TF/All+2/Mag+2/filler, Skl+2 in Virion's case) can go with magical Inigo, Owain or Brady. The reasoning for that is that Nah is going to be hard support without Avatar as a father, and that means she needs to support a Galeboy. Lucina has dibs on Morgan-M if he's around, and Owain and Brady are magical only.

[Raftina]

Oh. So Lon'qu!Severa is still probably the best Severa, eh?

Not really. Lon'qu!Severa lacks longbow sniper access, which is your one stop solution to secret Apo challenge runs. Lon'qu!Severa is pidgeonholed to lead position roles because she lacks Swordfaire GK and effective use of Waste.

Gregor!Laurent sounds quite good, actually.

Supposing that I decide to use him instead of Stahl!Laurent, who would be a good replacement parent for Nowi or Gerome (one of whom was gonna be Gregordaddy, the other being Vaike)?

Gerome: Stahl is good. Swordfaire GK hits hard and gives +1 movement, but not as hard as Axefaire berserker and doesn't give spd. Kellam or Frederick if you want to use Stahl elsewhere for the General/GK access.

Nowi: Vaike or Libra, Vaike being better for the brave axe to the face support General.

[Czar_Yoshi]

OK, being "pigeonholed" to a lead role is a good thing. Out of the children, Nah, Gerome and Yarne are forced to be hard support, and Avatar-M and Laurent have the option to do it as well. Anyone else going hard support will waste a Galeforce, so they have to be either a dedicated lead or able to switch back and forth (really, all that takes is a Faire and one of the pair to have Aggressor). In a 7-2 setup, you're only going to have two double galeforce pairs, who are usually involving Owain and Brady. Only Ricken!Severa is built for magical double galeforce, but it doesn't matter because there are already plenty of good skirmishers (Cynthia is the most obvious, Noire and Kjelle work nicely too) without Severa's help. While you could try to use Ricken!Severa x Owain/Brady, why make two units swap roles when they're both better off without the swap?

Basically, Yarne and Gerome need physical girls to support, and Severa with her +1 Str and natural Hero is the best candidate. Making her a dedicated lead is a good thing. If she were to support, however, she already has Hero which is a lot more effective than GK thanks to better pairup bonuses and the ability to hit a barn (and she still gets Swordfaire). Snipers are nice for Apo challenge runs, but again, using Severa as a generic Sniper is a waste of her unique dodgetanking/Vengeance skirmishing abilities because anyone can do that, and in fact the best Sniper is an Outrealm character.

tl;dr you need to think about the rest of your team and how Severa will fit in with it, not just about her as a single unit. Severa is good because she can fill unique roles, not because she can do common roles well.

GK Gerome: GKs aren't that great. They have the lowest Skl out of any promoted class (yes, even worse than Berserker), their pairup bonuses are subpar (Warrior has the same base Str and gives one more Str, Berserker gives one more Str, has two more base Str and gives the much more useful +Spd instead of +Def), and as a result of that Skl they frequently have hitrate problems without a Breaker/Hit+20, thanks to being in the back. But really, none of this should matter as Vaike doesn't have much competition.

[Raftina]

OK, being "pigeonholed" to a lead role is a good thing.

Being pidgeonholed is, by definition, bad in a discussion about versatility, regardless of what that pidgeonhole is.

In a 7-2 setup, you're only going to have two double galeforce pairs, who are usually involving Owain and Brady. Only Ricken!Severa is built for magical double galeforce, but it doesn't matter because there are already plenty of good skirmishers (Cynthia is the most obvious, Noire and Kjelle work nicely too) without Severa's help. While you could try to use Ricken!Severa x Owain/Brady, why make two units swap roles when they're both better off without the swap?

7:2 is worse than 6:3. With MaMU, it's better to marry gen 1 and bench Nah or marry gen 2 and bench 2 children (probably Nah and Gerome) so you get more actions per turn. With FeMU, it's better to marry Chrom and bench a boy (probably Gerome).

Basically, Yarne and Gerome need physical girls to support, and Severa with her +1 Str and natural Hero is the best candidate.

This is a common misconception for a few reasons:

1. Using the median difference between def and res, berserker is outright better than sage at damage output regardless of what the lead character uses for offensive stat.

2. If a character is paired with a hard support, that character should not use hero over assassin, because hero is slower and can't bypass Pavise.

Snipers are nice for Apo challenge runs, but again, using Severa as a generic Sniper is a waste of her unique dodgetanking/Vengeance skirmishing abilities because anyone can do that, and in fact the best Sniper is an Outrealm character.

Sniper is actually the best use of Vengeance, because it is the best way to ensure that Severa doesn't get hit. As for dodgetanking, her ability is hardly unique, given:

(although you never want more than two equipped at once).

tl;dr: Lon'qu!Severa gives up significant ability to engage in combat for the ability to fulfill a role that she will never be called upon to fulfill. You need to think about the rest of your team and how Severa will fit in it. Severa is good because she excels at in-demand roles, not because she can fill a rare role that you never need to have anyone fill.

GK Gerome: GKs aren't that great. They have the lowest Skl out of any promoted class (yes, even worse than Berserker), their pairup bonuses are subpar (Warrior has the same base Str and gives one more Str, Berserker gives one more Str, has two more base Str and gives the much more useful +Spd instead of +Def), and as a result of that Skl they frequently have hitrate problems without a Breaker/Hit+20, thanks to being in the back. But really, none of this should matter as Vaike doesn't have much competition.

GK: 34 skl, 80 Brave Sword=131 hit

Warrior: 42 skl, 60 Brave Axe, 10 proficiency=133 hit

Berserker: 35 skl, 60 Brave Axe, 10 proficiency=121 hit

The difference in hit is actually much closer between warrior and GK than berserker and GK, thanks to the difference in hit between Brave Sword and Axe.

GK pairup: 3 str, 3 def, 1 mov

Warrior pairup: 5 str, 3 def

Berserker pairup: 5 str, 3 spd

Berserker has the nicest pairup bonus, unless you've calculated the spd threshold and determined that it doesn't matter. A superficial examination makes it seem like warrior has a better pairup bonus, but that is incorrect. The difference in pairup bonus to the primary offensive stat is actually not that important because 1. the lead character hits about half as often as the support, thanks to how Brave weapons work during dual strikes and 2. the support character's attack bypasses Pavise/Aegis. The 1 mov is actually much more valuable than the 2 str, particularly if Gerome is supporting a unit that's on foot.

Warrior's biggest advantage over GK is actually 2% extra dual strike chance. But if you want that, Stahl gives Gerome Bowfaire warrior.

There is a second consideration here:

Gerome has Aggressor. Nah doesn't. Gerome's mother gives him +3 str. Nah's mother gives her +1 str. The magic Galeforce boys are better in double GF setups, meaning Nah is supporting the physical Inigo.[1] Gerome can give up Axefaire Berserker for Swordfaire GK much more easily than Nah can give up Axefaire General for Tomefaire Sage. [2]

[1] Nah support Inigo is assumed from this post:

In a 7-2 setup, you're only going to have two double galeforce pairs, who are usually involving Owain and Brady.

[2] Assuming you're taking the advice here. You are, of course, free to simply sacrifice the effectiveness of weaker units to make the stronger units better.

tl;dr you need to think about the rest of your team and how [a unit] will fit in with it, not just about her as a single unit.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Raftina

[BANRYU]

Welp, you two are at it again, so I'll just let that be..... (tl;dr in other words)

I will just go ahead and note that I'm only on Hard difficulty so the Apo challenges probably aren't such an issue for me. If I want Snipers, I have a few other candidates picked out for the job as well, so Severa not pulling Sniper duty shouldn't be a problem for me.

Edited May 6, 2014 by BANRYU

[Czar_Yoshi]

A dedicated support unit is pigeonholed into being a dedicated support. A unit who can freely move back and forth is pigeonholed into trying to fulfill both roles at once because if they don't, you don't get maximum Galeforce potential. A unit who doesn't have to worry about how they perform in the back is free to spend more resources on leading, and will thus do a better job. It's called specializing, and it's not a bad thing.

7:2 gives 16 kills per turn, 6:3 gives 15. 7:2 also allows your units to specialize more, as well as act over a larger area. There's also more HP to go around on your lead units, which is important when the bulk of the attacks you take go to your HP and Fortify/GS is locked by Vengeance. Explain how 6:3 is superior.

Marrying male Avatar with 1st gen means your best potential VV sweeper can't get 100% DS from Lucina and you can't get Aether on Morgan.

I don't care about median anything, I care about whether or not I can kill whatever I happen to be fighting at the time, and the enemies with above average stats are the only ones I care about.

Hero can bypass Pavise by not fighting Pavise foes, that's what the rest of your team is for. Assassin can't use axes which are needed for WTA on Anna. Hero also has more Str. As for Hero's Spd...

Lon'qu!Severa@Hero (Vengeance, Galeforce, All+2/Spd+2, Lancebreaker, Bowbreaker) with S Berserker Gerome: 42(base) +6(mods) +2(All+2/Spd+2) +8(Gerome) +2(tonic) =60, exactly the threshold for doubling Invincisorc and not being doubled by Thronie. Anna and NS don't matter because they don't have Hawkeye. Do I see any other non-Morgan children who can do that? No.

Now, about this Sniper business (context is no Limit/Rally/Agg)... The only things you should need to snipe are Anna (to get her off the Throne) and Thronie/his wave 5 counterparts. All weaker enemies can be taken by Avatar x Lucina on EP, or by regular Galeforce users if they have Counter (only the wave 1 Warriors).

+Mag/-Def Avatar@Sage (Vantage, Vengeance, Tomefaire, Mag+2, All+2) x Maribelle!Lucina@Sage (Tomefaire, DS+, Mag+2, All+2, Galeforce).

Avatar's atk with 1HP: 46(Sage) +4(mods) +9(Lucina) +5(Tomefaire) +2(Mag+2) +2(All+2) +2(Tonic) +42(Vengeance) +11(Celica's/WRB) =123. Lucina's atk: 46(Sage) +3(mods) +5(Tomefaire) +2(Mag+2) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) +11(CG/WRB) =71.

Against Anna (throned): 32+6+6+32+6+6 =88 damage. Against Anna (unthroned): 34+8+8+34+8+8 =100. All the sniper needs to do is poke Anna so she aggroes and comes off the Throne.

Against Thronie (55+3 res): 16+6+6+16+6+6 =56 damage. Thronie needs 43 chip damage. Severa time.

Stahl!Severa@Sniper (BF/Vengeance/All+2/Defender/Gale) x VG@Berserker (AF/DS+/Str+2/All+2/filler).

Severa's atk: 41(base) +4(mods) +10(VG) +5(BF) +2(All+2) +1(Defender) +42(Vengeance) +20(DB/WRB) +2(tonic): 127. Damage is 127 -67 /4 =15. VG's atk: 50(base) +7(mods) +5(AF) +2(Str+2) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) +18(Brave Axe/WRB): 86, damage is 86 -67 /2 *2 =18. All told, they get 33 chip damage in, 10 more is needed, and that's contingent on having Severa actually at 1HP (Snipers are a little harder to manipulate than melee units because they can't hurt themselves on Wave 1's Counter).

Now, Lon'qu!Severa@Hero (SF/Vengeance/All+2/filler) x the same Gerome. Severa will start the battle at full HP on enemy phase with Ragnell equipped.

Severa's Spd: 42(Hero) +6(mods) +8(VG) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) =60, enough not to be doubled by Thronie.

Thronie has 97 atk against Ragnell (-1 for WTD and -1 for no WRB). Severa's Def: 40(Hero) -1(mods) +5(Ragnell) +3(VG) +2(All+2) (no tonic) =49, Thronie treats it as 24. She'll thus take 73 damage for a Venegance boost of 36.

Counterattack: 42(Hero) +2(mods) +10(VG) +2(All+2) +5(SF) +36(Vengeance) +19(Ragnell/WTB/WTA) +2(tonic) =118, or 25 to Thronie. 25 +18 from VG is 43, exactly enough for Avatar to get the kill and without the hassle of setting up Vengeance. Specialized boss killer > generic Sniper. I didn't even need Str+2, there's still room for Galeforce and a Breaker.

tl;dr: Lon'qu!Severa gives up significant ability to engage in combat for the ability to fulfill a role that she will never be called upon to fulfill. You need to think about the rest of your team and how Severa will fit in it. Severa is good because she excels at in-demand roles, not because she can fill a rare role that you never need to have anyone fill.

That's true, Severa does excel at roles that are in demand. Why are they in demand? Because they're pretty hard to fill. Need snipers? Use the bonus box. Or Chrom, he's sitting there with Aether and Luna and nothing to do. And yes, Galeforce skirmishing is a role that's in demand, and fortunately Lon'qu!Severa can do that quite nicely as a Wyvern Lord that hits harder than and is just as fast as any Stahl!Severa, and still has the means to take on other roles if need be.

[BANRYU]

If I might interrupt this very intense and eloquent discussion for a moment...

A) other than Lon'qu!Severa what other kids are decent enough as Wyvern Lords (lead or otherwise)? can Gerome be decent as a support Wyvern Lord? I'm guessing Nah is probably a good candidate for this as well since I'm most likely using Vaike!Nah or possibly Gregor!Nah (if I decide to go Gregor!Laurent I'll probably do Vaike!Gerome and Virion!Nah instead for like a support Dark Knight or something; but since this is Hard and nothing higher I'll probably just pick what I feel like rather than what's optimal since they all seem pretty good)

B) Skill input for Olivia!Lucina: (Paladin or Assassin most likely, Hard mode, no Limit Breaker)

- Aether, Galeforce, Dual Strike+, and which two out of Swordfaire, Lance/Bowfaire, Luna, RFK? In other words, what's best between 1) RFK + 2 procs and no faire, 2) Aether + RFK + one faire, 3) 2 procs + a faire and no RFK (or even just Aether + 2 faires)?

I'm leaning toward Assassin Lucina if that helps.

Edited May 6, 2014 by BANRYU

[MelonGx]

If I might interrupt this very intense and eloquent discussion for a moment...

A) other than Lon'qu!Severa what other kids are decent enough as Wyvern Lords (lead or otherwise)? can Gerome be decent as a support Wyvern Lord? I'm guessing Nah is probably a good candidate for this as well since I'm most likely using Vaike!Nah or possibly Gregor!Nah (if I decide to go Gregor!Laurent I'll probably do Vaike!Gerome and Virion!Nah instead for like a support Dark Knight or something; but since this is Hard and nothing higher I'll probably just pick what I feel like rather than what's optimal since they all seem pretty good)

B) Skill input for Olivia!Lucina: (Paladin or Assassin most likely, Hard mode, no Limit Breaker)

- Aether, Galeforce, Dual Strike+, and which two out of Swordfaire, Lance/Bowfaire, Luna, RFK? In other words, what's best between 1) RFK + 2 procs and no faire, 2) Aether + RFK + one faire, 3) 2 procs + a faire and no RFK (or even just Aether + 2 faires)?

I'm leaning toward Assassin Lucina if that helps.

A) Wyvern Lord is only worth with FEMALE units, since there are only 3 physical classes - Great Knight, General, Wyvern Lord - for female are able to achieve a basic Str 42+6=48 - a threshold to make the female unit's physical power not to be inferior to neutral Dark Flier's magical power in Apo.

If a female unit doesn't need a high physical power, she has many classes to choose - Hero, Sniper, Assassin, Paladin, Great Lord ..... etc.

For Gerome, he has natural Warrior so he doesn't need Wyvern Lord.

But since he lacks all physical weaponfaires, you must give him a father with a physical weaponfaire in order to make his power ideally.

Vaike: +7 Berserker

Gregor: +6 Berserker

Henry: +5 Berserker

Stahl: +6 Warrior/GK (aka. +4 Berserker)

Frederick: +6 General without weaponfaire (aka. +1 Berserker)

Q: Why compare with a Dark Flier?

A:

1) All magical 2nd-gen leading girls have Dark Flier.

2) Nobody uses a magical class inferior to Dark Flier.

Here are some stats to help you choosing Nah's father:

Vaike!Nah (pass Axefaire)

General - Str.55 (7 superior to neutral Dark Flier, 3 superior to neutral Sage, lacks Spd bonus)

Hero - Str.47 (1 inferior to neutral Dark Flier)

Sage - Mag.46

Gregor!Nah (pass Axefaire)

Wyvern Lord - Str.50 (2 superior to neutral Dark Flier, 2 inferior to neutral Sage, lacks Spd bonus)

Hero - Str.46 (2 inferior to neutral Dark Flier)

Sage - Mag.47

Valkyrie - Mag.43 (has Spd bonus, but this class's hit sucks.)

Kellam!Nah (for reference)

General - Str.53 (same as neutral Dark Flier because NO Lancefaire/Axefaire, 4 inferior to neutral Sage)

Sage - Mag.48

* That means, without BOTH General and Axefaire, Nah's magical output is always superior to her physical output. Only Vaike can achieve it.

--------------------------------------------

B) In hard mode's non-Apo, the enemies are all inferior to your capped units.

So you don't need too much power.

I'll suggest Aether + Sol + Galeforce + RFK + Vantage. No weaponfaires & offensive procs unless you're going to beat the scenario's final boss.

For an offensive strategy like Hit & Away, drop Sol and Vantage, put Luna to cooperate with Aether and one weaponfaire (or All+2) to enhance your power.

2 weaponfaires is only worth with leading your Lucina and battling with both Aegis+ and Pavise+ enemies, who are only existed in Apo.

If you want to put Dual Strike+, drop anyone you don't think it's important.

Edited May 6, 2014 by MelonGx

[Raftina]

If I might interrupt this very intense and eloquent discussion for a moment...

A) other than Lon'qu!Severa what other kids are decent enough as Wyvern Lords (lead or otherwise)? can Gerome be decent as a support Wyvern Lord? I'm guessing Nah is probably a good candidate for this as well since I'm most likely using Vaike!Nah or possibly Gregor!Nah (if I decide to go Gregor!Laurent I'll probably do Vaike!Gerome and Virion!Nah instead for like a support Dark Knight or something; but since this is Hard and nothing higher I'll probably just pick what I feel like rather than what's optimal since they all seem pretty good)

B) Skill input for Olivia!Lucina: (Paladin or Assassin most likely, Hard mode, no Limit Breaker)

- Aether, Galeforce, Dual Strike+, and which two out of Swordfaire, Lance/Bowfaire, Luna, RFK? In other words, what's best between 1) RFK + 2 procs and no faire, 2) Aether + RFK + one faire, 3) 2 procs + a faire and no RFK (or even just Aether + 2 faires)?

I'm leaning toward Assassin Lucina if that helps.

A. Wyvern lord has limited applications.

One is a choice of lead class for physical female lead units. A lead unit wants high offensive stat to deal damage and high spd to get double attack. Wyvern lord gives a decent mix of str and spd. Male units do not benefit from this because they have access to berserker and warrior, both of which have better str and better spd. Gerome doesn't benefit from this because he is a male support unit, and he always has access to warrior.

Another is to give the pair 8 flying movement. It is better to trade str/mag for utility on the lead unit than on the support unit, partly because the support unit strikes more often than the lead unit and partly so you don't have to worry about what to do for movement after Galeforce activation. For example, if you really want flying movement, falcon knight+general is better than hero+wyvern lord (assuming the same stat mods).

B. 2 procs+faire. Treat the secondary weapon as something you use only when the primary weapon doesn't work.

For the argument before, here is the executive summary: Recall that I mentioned from the onset that these arguments are about maximizing overkill ability or maximizing tolerance for mistakes; these do not go hand in hand. If you care to read the posts, you'll see from the number of times Czar_Yoshi advises you to use another unit that he is maximizing overkill ability. I am maximizing tolerance for mistakes. Vengeance (Lon'qu!Severa) leaves little room for mistakes, because you must kill the enemy before it can retaliate. Luna (Stahl!Severa) leaves a lot of room for mistakes, because she can tank retaliations from most enemies (exception are the Vengeance enemies).

[Czar_Yoshi]

Alright. Now that I'm awake and less grumpy...

If I might interrupt this very intense and eloquent discussion for a moment...

A) other than Lon'qu!Severa what other kids are decent enough as Wyvern Lords (lead or otherwise)? can Gerome be decent as a support Wyvern Lord? I'm guessing Nah is probably a good candidate for this as well since I'm most likely using Vaike!Nah or possibly Gregor!Nah (if I decide to go Gregor!Laurent I'll probably do Vaike!Gerome and Virion!Nah instead for like a support Dark Knight or something; but since this is Hard and nothing higher I'll probably just pick what I feel like rather than what's optimal since they all seem pretty good)

B) Skill input for Olivia!Lucina: (Paladin or Assassin most likely, Hard mode, no Limit Breaker)

- Aether, Galeforce, Dual Strike+, and which two out of Swordfaire, Lance/Bowfaire, Luna, RFK? In other words, what's best between 1) RFK + 2 procs and no faire, 2) Aether + RFK + one faire, 3) 2 procs + a faire and no RFK (or even just Aether + 2 faires)?

I'm leaning toward Assassin Lucina if that helps.

A) Wyverns aren't a class that's easy to throw around. They're outclassed by some pretty common classes for support (namely Berserker), need a lot of Spd to lead and also need to maximize their highlight (Str) in order to shine when compared to leads with higher proc rates like Hero and Assassin. Because of that, Wyvern should always be used on Galeforce girls paired with a Berserker. Since all Galeforce girls have Lancefaire, that's the preferred weapon type.

With a Berserker, LB, Rally, a neutral Spd mod and a tonic, Wyverns have 68 Spd. That's not bad for taking down mooks. In order to double Anna/NS 75 Spd is needed, meaning a Spd mod of +7 or +5 and All+2. The only Wyverns who get that high are Lon'qu!Severa, Virion!Severa and various Morgans. If you're OK with the next Spd benchmark down, 69 (doubles everything except Anna/NS), a Spd mod of 1 without All+2 is sufficient, freeing up a skillslot for procstack (probably Astra/Luna) or Deliverer or something. Donnel!Kjelle is the only notable one to do that.

Wyvern has pretty bad distribution, and is hard to use outside of those three (Morgan, Kjelle, Severa). Of course, if your lead is fast enough to not mind the Spd loss from no Berserker support, the support unit can be a Wyvern- it's not optimal, but with Limit/Rally it's sufficient for skirmishing if you just like Wyverns.

Outside of Apo, I'd go with Paladin, Lancefaire and the three skills you mentioned. The last one is fairly free, Pass, Bond, Aegis, or even Rally Spd are fun to play around with if you're just playing casually, but equip Luna and swap Lancefaire for Swordfaire if you're doing FP3/the final chapter.

[Duke of Dozel]

One of my main challenges is deciding to give a male support Galeforce (for potential leading abilities) or Lancefaire (For several classes, like paladin, that lack Axefaire).

I always OP out for Galeforce though. Lancefaire is nice, but I highly doubt it's worth doubling upon the death of an opponent.

Is there any case where that choice shouldn't be made?

[MelonGx]

BTW, Gerome can be magical.

0 mod from mother, natural Sage & Tomefaire.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Galeforce vs Lancefaire:

The only boys who can inherit Galeforce are Morgan, Owain, Inigo and Brady. Owain and Brady are built for magic and have no reason to do anything else, so they're out. Morgan and Inigo both get natural Berserker, if they want to go hard support than they'll just be Axefaire Zerkers. So there's not really a case when you'd even use Lancefaire outside of training. Also keep in mind that there are no classes Morgan, Owain and Inigo can get that they won't have at least one Faire in already.

Magical Gerome: if doing that, I'd advise Henry!Gerome because he gets +2 Mag while keeping Barbarian for roleswaps (which Kjelle, Noire and Virion!Severa can all pull off well with him).

[BANRYU]

Okay so I've been going over the mods of my prospective kids again.... (spoiler'd for length below)

(None of the pairs 'cept Chrom x Olivia have been finalized yet so there's room for change almost everywhere else.)

For reference, my difficulty is Hard/Classic so ultimate optimization isn't a super high priority for me, just general ease of use and effectiveness.

parentage + intended final class:

- Olivia!Lucina: Assassin/Paladin

- Chrom! Inigo: Assassin/?

- Libra!Owain: Dreadfighter (for flavor reasons)

- Ricken!Brady: Sage

- Donnel!Kjelle: Bride / Hero

- Henry!Cynthia: Darkflier

- Lon'qu!Severa: Bride / Hero / Wyvern Lord

- Gregor!Gerome: Zerker / Wyvern Lord / Hero

- Fred!Yarne: Zerker / Wyvern Lord

- Stahl!Laurent: Sage

- Gaius!Noire: Darkflier

- Vaike!Nah: Hero

(don't worry about Morgan)

* * Bullshit territory: the following basically doesn't matter except to unnecessarily complicate things * *

I'd like it if all the kids could at least function solo (in terms of procs and faires and whatnot), though it's not as much of a priority since I know it's basically impossible to optimize everyone for lead capability.

I was aiming for maximum number of all kinds of weapons and 2 of each class between Dreadfighter, Bride, Assassin, Sage, Hero, Darkflier, and Wyvern Lord/Berserker (6 sword / 6(4) Lance / 6 Axe / 6 tome / 4 bow / 4 stave users total) ((MU is the other Dreadfighter))

((Again, totally aware this doesn't matter in the least so feel free to ignore it but it's there))

While I was looking through the mods that these give, I noticed that Libra gives Owain a couple negative points in Str, so I'm wondering if there's a different parent that might be better to balance out Dreadfighter Owain's offensive mods.

Since Henry is Cynthia's best parent after Chrom it's safe to rule him out as a possible substitute; same with Gaius and Donny (and presumably Fred), so malleable parents are anyone who's not named Chrom/Olivia/Gaius/Donny/Henry/MU.

Any recommendations for who to shuffle around?

Edited May 7, 2014 by BANRYU

[Czar_Yoshi]

Owain should stay magical. Magic is better than physical due to 1-2 range Braves, enemies having lower Res in general and Sage having really good distribution, so don't worry about his Str. But if you really want Dread Fighter Owain, Libra!Owain will have 41 Str and 42 Mag, which isn't too bad. Owain naturally has all three DF Faires, so he can work out.

For comparison though Sage Libra!Owain has 50 Mag, 8 more than DF. Since Owain is likely to be in a double Gale pair unless paired with Nah, that means on Apo he'll do 16 less on his initial dual strikes and 32 less if he gets all 8 in. It's a pretty big difference.

[The Geek]

Owain should stay magical. Magic is better than physical due to 1-2 range Braves, enemies having lower Res in general and Sage having really good distribution, so don't worry about his Str. But if you really want Dread Fighter Owain, Libra!Owain will have 41 Str and 42 Mag, which isn't too bad. Owain naturally has all three DF Faires, so he can work out.

For comparison though Sage Libra!Owain has 50 Mag, 8 more than DF. Since Owain is likely to be in a double Gale pair unless paired with Nah, that means on Apo he'll do 16 less on his initial dual strikes and 32 less if he gets all 8 in. It's a pretty big difference.

But... but Vaike!

[Gaia]

But... but Vaike!

A Vaike!Owain doesn't have any worthwhile offensive procs.

[BANRYU]

Owain should stay magical. Magic is better than physical due to 1-2 range Braves, enemies having lower Res in general and Sage having really good distribution, so don't worry about his Str. But if you really want Dread Fighter Owain, Libra!Owain will have 41 Str and 42 Mag, which isn't too bad. Owain naturally has all three DF Faires, so he can work out.

For comparison though Sage Libra!Owain has 50 Mag, 8 more than DF. Since Owain is likely to be in a double Gale pair unless paired with Nah, that means on Apo he'll do 16 less on his initial dual strikes and 32 less if he gets all 8 in. It's a pretty big difference.

Duly noted. I guess there's not as much need for change as I thought; suppose I overreacted.

Anyway, changing him over to Sage shouldn't be a big deal if that's what I decide to do, but mainly I want to use DF for the cool factor lol. I'm aware of the inferiority, but on my difficulty it shouldn't be a huge issue. Even if it is, second seals aren't hard to come by *shrug* Thanks.

[Czar_Yoshi]

A Vaike!Owain doesn't have any worthwhile offensive procs.

He also only gets Trickster and Hero from Vaike, putting him on par with Virion!Nah for class overlap (though Nah already has all she needs).

[Raftina]

I'd like it if all the kids could at least function solo (in terms of procs and faires and whatnot), though it's not as much of a priority since I know it's basically impossible to optimize everyone for lead capability.

What do you mean by "function solo"? I can think of a few possibilities:

1. You can deploy a child by himself and clear as many maps as possible.

2. Any child pairing can engage any enemy of your choice.

3. Any child is usable as a lead character.

The setups you want to use for these categories are actually quite different.

but on my difficulty it shouldn't be a huge issue. Even if it is, second seals aren't hard to come by

It is useful to note a few things if you intend to class change as needed:

1. Apotheosis doesn't change with difficulty (except that one non-boss enemy carries a different weapon).

2. Sage can reclass to dread fighter at any time, so you can immediately reclass to DF after an Apo run. However, DF can't reclass to sage until L30 and can't reclass at all until L10.

Given the reclass limitations, you may want to consider dark knight instead of dread fighter to limit your grind time.

[BANRYU]

What do you mean by "function solo"? I can think of a few possibilities:

1. You can deploy a child by himself and clear as many maps as possible.

2. Any child pairing can engage any enemy of your choice.

3. Any child is usable as a lead character.

The setups you want to use for these categories are actually quite different.

It is useful to note a few things if you intend to class change as needed:

1. Apotheosis doesn't change with difficulty (except that one non-boss enemy carries a different weapon).

2. Sage can reclass to dread fighter at any time, so you can immediately reclass to DF after an Apo run. However, DF can't reclass to sage until L30 and can't reclass at all until L10.

Given the reclass limitations, you may want to consider dark knight instead of dread fighter to limit your grind time.

I didn't know that Apo was the same on all difficulties. :0 That's good to know, as is the Sage thing (forgot about that), thanks.

As to your first question, sorry I didn't think to clarify what I meant by that. @___@ Basically your #3, that they can all function as leads by virtue of procs and other skills... Even though pair-up is the optimal strategy for practically everything, sometimes I just like to let everyone run around on their own, dumb and pointless as that is.