PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

tl;dr: it depends on the Assets and Flaws of your FeMU's stats, otherwise FeMU!Lucina will guarantee to have all female exclusive classes/skills.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Formerly Colm

[Carmine Sword]

The claims of Chrom!Morgan being bad are entirely in regard to his post-game utility, and even then said claims are greatly exaggerated. As far as in-game pairings go, Chrom!Morgan is one of the best due to innate Veteran, which lets FeMU pass down a different skill instead of Veteran, and being recruited in one of the easier paralogues.

[Patty_Cake]

Oh, in that case:

Fem!MU: +Speed -Luck

Well, I only pass down Galeforce to Morgan.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Patty_Cake

[Vascela]

FeMU x Chrom is all about FeMU and Chrom. It's not that Chrom!Morgan or FeMU!Lucina are good/bad. But FeMU x Chrom does every aspect of the game with high quality regardless if you recruited them or not.

[Patty_Cake]

Ok. But remember for the chapters 1-3 (I think), Frederick the game.

[Czar_Yoshi]

and even then said claims are greatly exaggerated

They're not exaggerated, they're with regard to other Morgan-Ms.

[astrophys]

The point is that Chrom has bland mods (+1 or -1 in affected stats) and thus cannot yield a Morgan with extreme values in other stats not available from the other children.

For example, 1+4+1 (Chrom + asset + child bonus) =6, while not common, is a replicable bonus in fields such as Spd, etc, with other couples (e.g., Cordelia x Lon'qu, etc.).

Contrast something like 7 speed, which is basically something only Morgans can do…. Chrom misses the mark on such statistical milestones because his personal mods never exceed +1.

[Carmine Sword]

I meant more that Chrom!Morgan is still perfectly useable in the post-game even if his mods aren't that great. Chrom's mods don't condemn Morgan to uselessness or anything that extreme.

[Nicholai]

I meant more that Chrom!Morgan is still perfectly useable in the post-game even if his mods aren't that great. Chrom's mods don't condemn Morgan to uselessness or anything that extreme.

It's impossible to ruin Morgan. Like, even Maiden Morgan, if it were possible, would be good. It's all a matter of how broken you want Morgan to be.

[Vascela]

As long as you have a 36 Mag cap as Sage, you can theoretically V/V Apo assuming no restrictions (you have LB, Rallies, Olivia is alive, and Morgan's spouse is alive with relevant classes, etc.).

You would need to have a -10 Mag mod for that to happen.

edit: Well, a -11 Mag mod would make you have to rethink the plan

Edited June 1, 2015 by Vascela

[Czar_Yoshi]

It's impossible to ruin Morgan. Like, even Maiden Morgan, if it were possible, would be good. It's all a matter of how broken you want Morgan to be.

Think about what makes Morgan good though. It's not the full class selection- you can only use five skills and one class at a time, and all the others aren't helping at that time- it's the fact that you get all the classes you need from one parent alone, allowing you to focus exclusively on mods with the other (3rd Gen Morgan is an extension of this- just more mods). So giving Morgan mods on par with a mid-tier G2 unit is kind of throwing away his/her potential, regardless of what he/she can still do.

[astrophys]

Now, while we're on the topic:

Obviously, 3rd Gen Morgans tend to have superior stat totals than 2nd gen Morgans [although, of course, how they're distributed is also important].

But with regards to 2nd Gen Morgans: obviously, they have weaker total stats, but some are better than others given particular Avatar & spouse mod combinations.

For example, I know that you've cited the example of +SPD/(not -RES and not-MAG) Avatar x Cordelia getting children that hit +7 speed, which you've argued helps hit certain benchmarks.

And Sully also would allow for +7 speed and enable a Galeforce/proc Kjelle, but at the cost of the Avatar getting a GF-less wife (which is why Cordelia would be preferable).

And of course, Avatar x Sumia would allow for +8 speed children, although it would impact Lucina's speed in turn. Similarly, a female Avatar with Lon'qu does that, but at the cost of only 1 child [rather than getting to bring two children to a benchmark like 2nd gen allows], so in that sense if you wanted his speed you'd have the female Avatar marry Lon'qu's son if said son was faster.

Are there any other particular standouts you'd like to share that you see among the 2nd gens, that while not necessarily at the pure stat total of a 3rd gen, start approaching the greatness of third gen units?

[Alastor15243]

It just occurred to me that my Dread Fighter Owain can use Bolt Axes instead of Levin Swords, which are by the looks of it all-around better, and even have a higher weapon rank. Am I mistaken in this regard, or should I have my Owain be using Bolt Axes for his magical pavise-striking weapon?

Edited June 1, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Vascela]

Think about what makes Morgan good though. It's not the full class selection- you can only use five skills and one class at a time, and all the others aren't helping at that time- it's the fact that you get all the classes you need from one parent alone, allowing you to focus exclusively on mods with the other (3rd Gen Morgan is an extension of this- just more mods). So giving Morgan mods on par with a mid-tier G2 unit is kind of throwing away his/her potential, regardless of what he/she can still do.

I'll disagree. The class selection is infinitely more potent than a small change in numbers. In a game where benchmarks are made before you apply tonics, you aren't getting much extra off mods unless there was a specific, personal goal/challenge.

Classes determine what you can or can't be. Mods only help boost towards your goal.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Are there any other particular standouts you'd like to share that you see among the 2nd gens, that while not necessarily at the pure stat total of a 3rd gen, start approaching the greatness of third gen units?

This is a slightly different context than postgame/Apo but when we were initially joking around about the feasibility of a resetless Lunatic+ run I was looking at +Skl Avatar!Yarne, who has a high enough growth to reasonably cap Skl (and Str) and a high enough cap (with Skl+2) to hit 100% DS with Vantage Olivie!Lucina in an ingame setting for sweeping, assuming she can cap too.

I'll disagree. The class selection is infinitely more potent than a small change in numbers. In a game where benchmarks are made before you apply tonics, you aren't getting much extra off mods unless there was a specific, personal goal/challenge.

Classes determine what you can or can't be. Mods only help boost towards your goal.

Compared to G1 units who have poor class selections, sure. But (good) G2 units aren't really wanting for classes. Morgan's class selection is great, but it's not something other units somehow can't have (with the exception of GM and Valkyrie). The mods are what really set him/her apart.

Of course, all that is in an Apo context only. Ingame Morgan's class selection really is a massive deal.

Edit: actually I suppose it would also be important if you want to force units to fill certain roles (mostly if you want a lot of units doing the same thing, like Vengeance Snipers). That's pretty different to my preferred playstyle (considering each unit on a case-by-case basis and optimizing them to their personal strengths), but Morgan's classes would be a big deal there.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Vascela]

You can't be a Hero unless you have Hero. It doesn't matter what your mods say, if you can think it, you can make it. Even if you have -2 Str, you can still be a Hero if you have the class.

If there is a hypothetical benchmark you strive to have that you haven't reached, for any potential reason, then you can use mods to guide your way there.

[Czar_Yoshi]

But you also wouldn't want to be a Hero if you can't do it well...

[Vascela]

But you also wouldn't want to be a Hero if you can't do it well...

Want is a strong word. And I don't think you should be using it.

Everyone can do their class well if you know what you're doing and you want to do it.

[Nicholai]

Want is a strong word. And I don't think you should be using it.

Everyone can do their class well if you know what you're doing and you want to do it.

Want is a strong word? Is it, though? Even considering nearly every child unit possible can take apo relatively well, there's no reason to go in with Ricken!Brady as a great knight. Mods mean as much or more than classes for gen 2 because most units get everything they want either from the start or with a relatively simple pairing.

[Deitti]

I know people might be tired of the question but what would be the most optimal pairings for team based around beating Apo? All the information ive looked up myself seems to be year old at the very least and im not completely sure what, if anything has changed since then, hence the question. Or maybe it can be found easily and im just blind but ohwell.

Male Avatar with +Mag asset will be used but everything else is pretty much open right now.

[burgerkong]

Want is a strong word? Is it, though? Even considering nearly every child unit possible can take apo relatively well, there's no reason to go in with Ricken!Brady as a great knight. Mods mean as much or more than classes for gen 2 because most units get everything they want either from the start or with a relatively simple pairing.

That's not strictly true though. Yes, a fair few children are pretty much unscrewable (Morgan, Cynthia, Brady, Severa), but the others still have classes/skills they want out of certain pairings.

Classes / skills are for sure the most important. Even if his mods are godly, no one's gonna argue that someone like Lon'qu!Yarne is a good Yarne. Mods do allow you to hit certain thresholds you wouldn't otherwise be able to hit to increase consistency (Dual Strike%, doubling thresholds, etc.).

[Ownagepuffs]

I know people might be tired of the question but what would be the most optimal pairings for team based around beating Apo? All the information ive looked up myself seems to be year old at the very least and im not completely sure what, if anything has changed since then, hence the question. Or maybe it can be found easily and im just blind but ohwell.

Male Avatar with +Mag asset will be used but everything else is pretty much open right now.

Awakening is too versatile for there to be The One Team<tm>

[Deitti]

Awakening is too versatile for there to be The One Team<tm>

Oh, im not looking for Best Team Ever, rather Best Options Ever.

[Alastor15243]

Oh, im not looking for Best Team Ever, rather Best Options Ever.

First off, are you going to try for apotheosis because you want a huge challenge that you want to prepare for?

If so, I'm just gonna put this out there: DON'T USE BRAVE WEAPONS.

If you use brave weapons and you've got everyone's stats maxed out, literally the only things you need to know to beat apotheosis secret route are how to build a rally bot (get an einherjar and give them either 5 of the 10 rally skills if you want two rally bots to give all bonuses, or Rally Heart, Rally Spectrum, Rally Skill, Rally Speed, and either Rally Strength or Magic if you want a rally bot that can singlehandedly give an all-physical or all-magical group pretty much everything it needs) and Galeforce 101: Gaius, Donnel (and technically Avatar but this is ill advised) can give Tharja, Sully and Nowi's daughters galeforce. Know these two things, max out everyone's stats with limit breaker, and use brave weapons, and the map will be an utter cakewalk even if your planning is horrible. Why? Because they roughly triple your damage output. You go from 2-4 attacks to 6-12.

If you're not using brave weapons, then things become interesting. It's totally possible to one-round enemies in apotheosis secret route without brave weapons IF you know what you're doing.

You want a party with speed, offense, skill, offensive skills, an even distribution of aegis weapons (bows, magic, dragonstones if you like) and pavise weapons (swords, lances, axes, beaststones if you must), snipers (3-range combat is absolutely indispensable in apotheosis, as no enemies are capable of it and several nightmarish enemies are far more easily dispatched with it), healers (you'll need people on hand capable of using fortify pretty much every turn, and rescue staves are essential for when things go horribly wrong), and of course rally bots.

You need to get as many units as possible access to both galeforce and offensive procs (Astra and Aether are only acceptable when combined with either Luna or Ignis), and the units that can't get both (Laurent, Yarne, Gerome and basically Nah) need to stay in the back and focus on dealing high dual strike damage by increasing their offensive power with skills like AS+2, Aggressor, faires, and accuracy boosting skills like Anathema and Hit+20 if they're low accuracy.

There's a lot you need to understand, so why don't you show me your current ideas for pairings and we can give you advice as to what to change.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

Oh, im not looking for Best Team Ever, rather Best Options Ever.

Avatar x Lucina > Chrom!Cynthia > Severa/Kjelle/other Cynthia > Sumia/Cordelia > everyone else

Chrom x Sumia/Maribelle/Olivia

Lissa x Stahl/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Sully x Gaius/Donnel

Miriel x Lon'qu/Ricken/Gregor/Libra

Sumia x Chrom/Henry

Maribelle x Chrom/Virion/Lon'qu/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Panne x Virion/Stahl/Gregor

Cordelia x Virion/Vaike/Stahl/Lon'qu/Ricken

Nowi x Vaike/Stahl/Henry

Tharja x Fred/Vaike/Ricken/Gaius

Olivia x Chrom/Fred/Stahl/Ricken/Libra/Henry

Cherche x Virion/Vaike/Stahl/Ricken/Gregor/Henry