PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Vascela]

If you know that it's subjective, then you should start by telling us what you want and like. Things like "I really want X!Severa to do Y; how can I be successful with this, and how will that affect Z!Brady, her partner."

There is no list of absolute best things; you already knew this. Some people have specific pairings they always do or simply like them so much (example: some people always marry a certain spouse). Give us information on what you definitely want, then give us information on how you want to be successful. We will sculpt your perfect world, but we don't do that out of nothing. We need your personal requirements to start. All we know is you want galeforce--which is heavily limited information as that only affects 2-3 pairings.

[Serafina]

Thank you, you're really smart!
I didn't know that Galeforce only affected 2 or 3 pairings. But how many characters do people grind up? 10? Some missions only accepts like 6 units. But max should be 10, right?
StreetPass also only allows 10 units if I remember correctly.

There are no pairings I really like and there are no specific character I like more than others. I simply want like a 50/50 Mag Str team. I'm sure about Chrom!Olivia but I haven't decided on MU yet.
I will grind up them with the DLC maps obviously.

How many units out of 10 will learn Galeforce?

Edited July 19, 2015 by Serafina

[Alastor15243]

Thank you, you're really smart!

I didn't know that Galeforce only affected 2 or 3 pairings. But how many characters do people grind up? 10? Some missions only accepts like 6 units. But max should be 10, right?

StreetPass also only allows 10 units if I remember correctly.

There are no pairings I really like and there are no specific character I like more than others. I simply want like a 50/50 Mag Str team. I'm sure about Chrom!Olivia but I haven't decided on MU yet.

I will grind up them with the DLC maps obviously.

How many units out of 10 will learn Galeforce?

50/50 mag and strength? Then you should know about which children can go either way.

Brady, Laurent and Owain are generally always magical, while Severa (with some exceptions), Yarne, Gerome and Kjelle are generally always physical.

The variable ones are Inigo, Cynthia, Lucina, Nah, Noire, Morgan, Avatar. You've got three guys who are always magical and no girls who are always magical, and two guys and girls who are generally always physical. That means that of the 7 variables, you generally want to either make 3 girls magical and then make sure of the remaining 4 the same number of guys and girls are physical and magical unless you want to do certain crossover pairs like Sniper x Sage or Dread Fighter and Bride.

For example, in my latest run, I paired a magical Cynthia with Brady, a magical Noire with Laurent, and a physical Bride Kjelle with a magical Dread Fighter Owain, and then I made Inigo physical to go with Severa, Lucina physical to go with Gerome, and my female Avatar physical to go with Yarne, and my male Morgan physical to go with a physical Nah.

[jdb1984]

Lucina
Father-Chrom
Mother-Sumia
Skills-Aether, (hopefully) Galeforce

Kjelle
Father-Gaius
Mother-Sully
Skills-Aegis, Movement +1
Class change-Pegasus Knight

Cynthia
Father-Chrom
Mother-Sumia
Skills-Aether, Galeforce

Info pending on Owain, Morgan, and Laurent

[Alastor15243]

Lucina

Father-Chrom

Mother-Sumia

Skills-Aether, (hopefully) Galeforce

Kjelle

Father-Gaius

Mother-Sully

Skills-Aegis, Movement +1

Class change-Pegasus Knight

Cynthia

Father-Chrom

Mother-Sumia

Skills-Aether, Galeforce

Info pending on Owain, Morgan, and Laurent

Could you add the context to this post too? Just so you know, the pairing thread is a catch-all thread for general partybuilding related to children, so all of your original post is relevant here.

Also, I've got some more segments of my pairing guide done:

CYNTHIA:

Mods: Str-1, Mag+1, Skl+3, Spd+4, Lck+1, Def-1, Res+2.

Standard Classes: Pegasus Knight, Knight, Cleric

Notable Standard Skills: Galeforce, Lancefaire, Tomefaire, Luna.

Like Brady, Cynthia is already all set to be a great unit, and unlike Brady, her speed is already amazing, she starts off with all the speed Brady can ever hope to get without the Avatar. She just needs either vengeance or a half skill percent proc to really shine. Which is really lucky, because her selection of fathers is nothing short of pitiful. Only four, and of them, one sucks, one’s in high demand, and yet another one is completely out of the question. So this is going to be a pretty short section, though not quite as short as Kjelle’s:

Father 1: Chrom

Mods: Str+0, Mag+1, Skl+4, Spd+5, Lck+2, Def-2, Res+1.

New Classes: Cavalier, Archer.

Notable New Skills: Aether, Bowfaire.

Notes: As good as this pairing is for Lucina, it’s even better for Sumia. If you don’t like vengeance, this is the only way to get her a truly stable proc rate without butchering your team elsewhere, the speed is fantastic, her strength mod is patched out to neutral, and she gets several new great physical classes, giving her the choice of being either physical or magical depending entirely on what you want. Personally I like to make her a Dark Flier while I make her sister a Sniper.

Father 2: Henry

Mods: Str+0, Mag+2, Skl+5, Spd+4, Lck-1, Def+0, Res+1.

New Classes: Dark Mage, Troubadour, Thief.

Notable New Skills: Axefaire (must be inherited), Vengeance, Acrobat, Dual Support +.

Notes: If you want to pair Chrom up with somebody other than Sumia, this is your best option for Cynthia. If you like Vengeance, you can go with that to patch up her proc rate, though it’s not the end of the world if you just go with Luna too. She’ll also have slightly better magic power than Chrom!Cynthia, but the difference is utterly meaningless, Dragonskin means it amounts to half of a damage point per hit. This Cynthia doesn’t get as many physical options as with Chrom, though she does have just enough speed to hit 75 speed as an Assassin without any +speed pairup bonus, and her skill’s pretty damn great, approaching 100% DS build territory if you have her be said Assassin class and marry her to, say, Virion!Yarne as a Sniper with AS+2 equipped. Or virtually any assassin using Mystletainn in the back if you don’t want to use Virion!Yarne for that purpose (which you probably don’t). As for magical, as long as you like Vengeance she’s got the speed threshold and class access to do a Dark Knight Throniekiller, except she doesn’t have Swordfaire, so she’s not as good as one other on this list, and honestly, Vengeance is not a good skill to be using against Thronie, because he hits like a truck and you want to be at 100% HP when you fight him just to be safe.

Father 3: Frederick

Mods: Str+1, Mag-1, Skl+5, Spd+2, Lck+1, Def+1, Res+2.

New Classes: Cavalier, Wyvern Rider.

Notable New Skills: Deliverer.

Notes: While she’s not gonna be as bad as Frederick!Brady, that’s not saying much. This really doesn’t give her any new options, it merely takes options away by crippling her speed. Performancewise, this is by far her worst choice. Then why isn’t it her “Worst Father”? Well…

Worst Father: Gaius

Mods: Str+0, Mag+0, Skl+5, Spd+6, Lck-1, Def-2, Res+2

New Classes: Myrmidon, Thief.

Notable New Skills: Astra, Swordfaire, Acrobat.

Notes: …This is a very weird verdict, because, well, look at it. Performancewise, this pairing is friggin’ amazing. …But at what cost…!? Let’s look at the positives first, because let’s be honest, there are a ton. In fact this is easily the best-performing worst pairing for any child ever. The speed and skill mods are amazing, and allow her to do a ton of crazy stuff, like, say, achieve 75 speed as a Dark Flier with a Sage Support by just using AS+2 instead of Tomefaire, hitting 75 speed as a Great Knight with a Berserker support and AS+2, and actually having the skill to make that a kind of cool proposition comparable to Wyvern Lord, and she’s also the only non-Chrom Cynthia who can procstack thanks to Astra. This is a really, really good unit. It’s just not good enough to justify the opportunity cost. Gaius is an extremely valuable father, and using him on a child who already has Galeforce is nearly impossible to justify.

Should You Use Avatar On Her?

Easily one of the best options on this list, namely because of that speed, Sumia’s Apotheosis-ready status, and how sparse her options are normally. You can get Cynthia and Morgan a ludicrous +8 speed mod, enough to 75 speed the Dark Flier class unassisted, but you’re honestly better off going +Magic, which will basically be Gaius!Cynthia with a +5 magic mod, no crippling of another child, and with another child just like her. And you don’t even have to drop Avatar for this, because again, Sumia can fight in Apotheosis excellently. I’d actually argue that, ignoring the opportunity cost to Lucina and Chrom, this is the best first gen partner for the Avatar period. The only caveat is that Cynthia can easily be amazing with Chrom, and Morgan can, as always, become even more amazing.

SEVERA:

Mods: Str+2, Mag+0, Skl+3, Spd+3, Lck+0, Def+1, Res+0.

Standard Classes: Mercenary, Pegasus Knight, Dark Mage

Notable Standard Skills: Armsthrift, Galeforce, Lancefaire, Vengeance.

Severa is a very interesting unit. She’s basically a slightly slower and stronger Cynthia with Vengeance instead of Luna. So how to approach her entirely depends on whether or not you like Vengeance. If you do, great, like Brady you can focus entirely on giving her great mods, and there are several parents who can do that. If you don’t? She’s a bit tricky. If you count her as a luna-needing child, she’s easily the best physically, but she’s also the only one who doesn’t already have Astra, meaning only one dad can provide her with both Luna and Astra, and she’ll have to settle for Luna the rest of the time. She’s still an awesome unit, but that is a downside to consider. I’ll start with the dads that just provide stat boosts, and then afterwards I’ll discuss the options for those who don’t like Vengeance.

Father 1: Lon’qu

Mods: Str+2, Mag+0, Skl+6, Spd+6, Lck+0, Def-1, Res-2

New Classes: Myrmidon, Thief, Wyvern Rider.

Notable New Skills: Astra, Swordfaire, Acrobat, Deliverer.

Notes: Like with Brady, a lot of people like to use Lon’qu because Severa doesn’t need to focus on anything but mods, and there’s no denying Lon’qu offers the best mods. The main appeal of this pairing is that Severa can now do the same thing that I mentioned Gaius!Kjelle can do, and hit 75 speed as a Berserker-backed Wyvern Lord. Personally? I don’t see the appeal of that build, especially not on her. Again, there’s only one enemy that 75 speed is going to be useful for when you’re a physical unit, and, yet again, it’s Anna. But the other thing is that Vengeance requires you to attack while wounded, and doing the calculations, and this is very important, Lon’qu!Severa @ Wyvern Lord with a Berserker support and AS+2 will take 50 (44 if Severa’s using an axe) damage from Aether, meaning you need to have at least 51 (45 if you’re using an axe) HP before starting battle, which reduces how effectively Vengeance is gonna boost your damage. Granted, you’ll lay on some serious hurt if Aether connects and reduces you to 1 HP, but between the 35% chance of it not proccing and the 40% chance of dual guards, there’s not much guarantee of that, and one of the biggest selling points of Vengeance is that guarantee, that stability that comes with the 100% proc rate. And this is on top of everything I said about Gaius!Kjelle, except replace the opportunity cost to Noire losing Gaius (which we’ll get to, I promise) with the less severe opportunity cost to Brady from losing Lon’qu. Although she can use that speed for Dark Flier if she likes, and by putting AS+2 on her she, like Gaius!Cynthia, can hit 75 speed as a Dark Flier or Sage without any +speed pairup, though it would be nice if she had tomefaire to do it with. Oh well, there’s still Deliverer she can slap on for 10 mov on Dark Flier, which is pretty cool honestly.

Father 2: Virion

Mods: Str+2, Mag+0, Skl+5, Spd+5, Lck-1, Def-1, Res+0.

New Classes: Archer, Wyvern Rider, Mage.

Notable New Skills: Bowfaire, Deliverer, Tomefaire.

Notes: I consider this to be a much better option than Lon’qu if you want a Vengeance Severa. This Severa has slightly less speed than with Lon’qu, but getting the mage class tree means she has far more interesting things to do with the still impressive speed she has, especially since her magic modifier is merely neutral. She can go Sage, in addition to Dark Flier like before, and while she can’t do 75 speed with AS+2 like with Lon’qu!Severa, she can still do it with a Dread Fighter support, and she has Tomefaire now, which means that after putting on Vengeance, you can pick any two of AS+2, Deliverer, Armsthrift and Tomefaire, a very nice selection. Also, having identical speed and skill to Gaius!Kjelle, she makes a great Bride half of a Dread Fighter and Bride duo, because on top of having nice physical mods, she can also reach 75 speed as a Bride with a Dread Fighter support. Also, something really must be said, that hair color is just perfect on her.

Father 3: Gregor

Mods: Str+4, Mag-1, Skl+5, Spd+3, Lck-1, Def+2, Res-2.

New Classes: Troubadour, Myrmidon.

Notable New Skills: Axefaire (must be inherited) Dual Support +, Swordfaire, Astra.

Notes: While the speed isn’t as impressive as either of the above options, as long as you like Vengeance, this is a better physical lead unit than any Inigo can hope to be statistically, though the class selection isn’t exactly amazing. You’ve got Hero (with your choice of Faires), Assassin, and Falcon Knight, but that’s about it. The first two are perfectly good options though, especially since she’s a girl, meaning that if she has a hard support husband she can go Hero without worrying about the lack of an attack boost when in back, and if she has a galeboy husband she can do an Assassin-Warrior duo (and use AS+2 to fix her speed which slightly misses the 75 speed mark if that matters to you), which will make her a great physical minionsweeper. It also helps that Gregor really doesn’t have many good options for good children to father (thoug unlike when I said this before with other kids about Frederick, Kellam or Donnel, he does have one or two good other options available), so again, this minimizes opportunity cost.

Father 4: Stahl

Mods: Str+4, Mag-1, Skl+4, Spd+3, Lck-2, Def+3, Res-1.

New Classes: Cavalier, Myrmidon, Archer

Notable New Skills: Luna, Astra, Swordfaire, Bowfaire.

Notes: This is where we get into the pairs for those who don’t like Vengeance (or maybe just don’t want to use any of the above fathers), and of them, Stahl is easily the best… as long as you can put up with the fact that Stahl’s hair color combined with that expression on her face makes her constantly look like she just lost a bet and had to swim through a bog or a sewer. Aesthetics aside though, this is easily your best non-Vengeance option, and really shows off just how friggin’ amazing of a father Stahl is. He singlehandedly gives her both Luna and Astra, allowing for instant procstacking, and on top of that he also gives her Paladin, Assassin, Bow Knight and Sniper, and holy cow does she make a good Sniper. She lacks the speed to hit Anna unless you give her AS+2, but aside from that, she’s excellent and will be able to take on all the enemies that Snipers are actually recommended for with ease. But if you already have plenty of Snipers on your team and/or just want to make her something else? Well, you have your choice of Hero, Bow Knight, Paladin, Assassin and Falcon Knight. Have fun, she’ll make a great minionsweeper.

Father 5: Vaike

Mods: Str+5, Mag-2, Skl+4, Spd+4, Lck-1, Def+1, Res-2.

New Classes: Knight, Thief.

Notable New Skills: Axefaire (must be inherited), Luna, Acrobat.

Notes: A great use of a father who pretty much only has 2.5 genuinely good uses. Being a girl, she gets Luna from Vaike, but also General and Axefaire, meaning that combined with that epic strength mod, this is literally the strongest a non-Avatar-fathered girl can possibly hope to be. She also has enough speed that with AS+2, she’ll still be fast enough even in General to double all the non-boss enemies of Apotheosis without any +speed pairup. But she most likely still will have a +speed pairup, because I recommend pairing her up with a Paladin if you make that choice. As a result this Severa works great paired up with a physical Inigo or male Morgan (Or Stahl!Owain if you picked that), since they very often (always in Morgan’s case) have Paladin to help cover the disadvantages of General. And this allows her to compensate for her lack of Astra with sheer overwhelming power. It’s exceedingly rare for her to be in any danger of failing to kill an opponent even if she misses a Luna or two. Plus, in terms of Aesthetics, Severa looks excellent as a blonde. You can also make her a Hero if you like, though if you still paired her up with a Paladin galeboy he won’t perform as well as he would have if he were being backed up by General’s strength boost and dual strikes.

Father 6: Ricken

Mods: Str+1, Mag+2, Skl+3, Spd+3, Lck+1, Def+0, Res+0

New Classes: Cavalier, Archer, Mage.

Notable New Skills: Luna, Bowfaire, Tomefaire.

Notes: This is an exceptionally poor pairing. Not in terms of performance, it’s okay, though being female she can’t use that +3 speed to hit 75 speed with a Dark Flier support (She can do it with AS+2 and a Dread Fighter support though). My problems with it are more in terms of wasted potential and opportunity cost. It takes all of the complaints I have with Ricken!Brady and multiplies them. Severa’s magic is mediocre, particularly compared to Ricken!Owain, and her speed isn’t as impressive as Virion!Severa, who gets the same number of magical skills and classes that Ricken gives her, that being one skill and one class. Severa’s magic was never going to be impressive, so using the highest magic mod father on her is kinda pointless. And what’s more, this isn’t even an alternative to Virion!Severa for those who want a magical Severa but who don’t like Vengeance, because, again, Ricken is one of your most valuable tools in avoiding having to use Vengeance for Owain. Again, in a vacuum, she’s not terrible, but unlike Vaike!Severa, she can only compensate for not having Astra by attacking the weaker defensive stat with, say, Dark Knight. But on that subject, she hasn’t got the stats and skills to really be an exceptional Thronieslayer, so she’ll really just be a mixed minionsweeper who just happens to be a Dark Knight. She can also do some physical stuff with the classes she gets from Ricken, but if you’re using Ricken to father a physical fighter, you’re really doing something wrong.

Worst Father: Donnel

Mods: Str+3, Mag-1, Skl+2, Spd+2, Lck+3, Def+2, Res-1

New Classes: Troubadour.

Notable New Skills: Aptitude (must be inherited), Underdog (must be inherited), Dual Support +.

Notes: In all honesty it’s really hard to “ruin” Severa as long as you like Vengeance, but this one comes closest, by nerfing her speed and skill, giving her one new class while also nerfing the stat she’d need to use it, and robbing Kjelle and Noire of one of their very limited father options.

Should You Use Avatar On Her?

Easily one of the best options, up there with Cynthia. Cordelia, as long as you like Vengeance, is apotheosis-capable just like Sumia, so the only thing you really lose compared to marrying 2nd gen is the use of Nah (not a big loss at all) and some stats on Morgan. And since Cordelia isn’t Sumia, Sumia can still marry Chrom, and both Chrom and the Avatar can fight in Apotheosis effectively. However, in a vacuum, it’s still not quite as good as marrying Sumia because Sumia has one better spd and is more magically oriented, which is a better way to make use of that speed. Still, you can try out that Wyvern Lord build without damaging Noire or having to use Vengeance, which makes it far more worth it to try out.

GEROME

Mods: Str+4, Mag+1, Skl+0, Spd+0, Lck+1, Def+3, Res-1.

Standard Classes: Wyvern Rider, Fighter, Priest.

Notable Standard Skills: Dual Support + (must be inherited), Str+2, Tantivy, Tomefaire.

Gerome is the first of the game’s hard supports, characters who cannot get Galeforce under any circumstances. He has the best strength mod of all of the children, but due to his mother going straight from studying the general healing arts to an absolute obsession with Minerva, his optimization for physical combat in terms of classes… could be better. He does get Warrior at least, a great hard support class, but no faires and only Tantivy for a hit boosting skill (and that doesn’t work unless there are no allies within 3 spaces, which is restrictive, so you’ll want a better one). Ideally, to make the best use of all that strength and unleash some seriously powerful dual strikes, he’s gonna want Berserker too, but Warrior’s totally fine if you must, as long as you get him a faire for it, either Axefaire (Berserker) or Bowfaire (Sniper).

Father 1: Henry

Mods: Str+5, Mag+2, Skl+2, Spd+0, Lck-1, Def+4, Res-2.

New Classes: Barbarian, Thief, Dark Mage.

Notable New Skills: Axefaire, Anathema.

Notes: This is the only way to make Gerome a Berserker with a good hit boosting skill. He can’t get Hit+20, but that’s not a massive problem, he’ll still do quite well with Anathema, and that’ll also improve his wife’s hit too, if it’s suffering for some reason. It works out quite well, I don’t have much else to say.

Father 2: Gregor

Mods: Str+6, Mag+0, Skl+2, Spd+0, Lck+0, Def+4, Res-3.

New Classes: Barbarian, Mercenary, Myrmidon.

Notable New Skills: Axefaire, Armsthrift, Swordfaire.

Notes: This is basically Henry with slightly better strength, as long as you can tolerate using Tantivy instead of Anathema. Definitely put this one on a Sniper, since Snipers, having 3 range, can attack enemies from the largest number of different spaces, and thus have the most options for keeping away from their allies. If you can manage that, this will function slightly better. If not, Henry’s gonna work out for you significantly more. That is if you want to go Berserker. If you want to make him an Axefaire Warrior, that could work well too, since Warrior lacks the accuracy problems of Berserker.

Father 3: Virion

Mods: Str+4, Mag+1, Skl+2, Spd+2, Lck+0, Def+1, Res-1.

New Classes: Archer, Mage.

Notable New Skills: Hit+20, Skill+2, Bowfaire, Mag+2.

Notes: Fans of this pairing rejoice, this is actually a pretty good Gerome. He can’t be a Berserker, but he can be a damn good Warrior with Bowfaire, and he has Hit+20 if you want to increase his accuracy even further (Warrior accuracy isn’t that bad, above average even, but then, you don’t get as many bonuses to hit in back). That’s a really good option, but sadly, it’s pretty much his only one. Of course, with his merely mediocre magic mod, he could go Sage if you really must, but other than that, not much.

Father 4: Stahl

Mods: Str+6, Mag+0, Skl+1, Spd+0, Lck-1, Def+5, Res-2

New Classes: Cavalier, Archer, Myrmidon.

Notable New Skills: Hit+20, Skill+2, Bowfaire.

Notes: Basically Stahl!Gerome is Virion!Gerome with 2 more strength, enough to do 1 more damage per dual strike. It’s a minor difference, but it’s still objectively better.

Father 5: Vaike

Mods: Str+7, Mag-1, Skl+1, Spd+1, Lck+0, Def+3, Res-3.

New Classes: Barbarian, Thief.

Notable New Skills: Axefaire

Notes: Ah, here we get into a certain class of children: breeding children. These are children bred not for performance in battle, but for the female Avatar to make babies with. See that strength mod? Highest it’s possible to get without the Avatar’s involvement, and if a female Avatar with a Strength asset and, say, a defense flaw, were to marry him, these are what Morgan’s mods would be: Str+11, Mag-1, Skl+3, Spd+1, Lck-1, Def+2, Res-4. The highest possible strength mod in the entire game. Impressive, to be sure, but Vaike!Gerome has the same problems as Gregor!Gerome, just with 1 more strength. He only has Tantivy and maybe Swordbreaker to boost his hit rate as a Berserker. But another option, like with Gregor!Gerome, is to just make him an Axefaire Warrior, which should function reasonably well. Still, strength is easily the least useful of the three skills you can breed a male Morgan to excel in. Also, Stahl!Gerome is only 1 strength weaker (and Morgan gets a round 10 for anyone with a bit of OCD about that) and in all honesty has better options.

Father 6: Ricken

Mods: Str+3, Mag+3, Skl+0, Spd+0, Lck+2, Def+2, Res-1

New Classes: Mage, Archer, Cavalier

Notable New Skills: Mag+2, Bowfaire, Hit+20, Skill+2.

Notes: It’s a remarkable waste of an often crucial father, but… if you can somehow spare him, he makes an… interesting Gerome. An even and respectable +3 to both magic and strength, making him quite versatile in what he can do. The problem is that versatility only stretches so far, and to make the best use of both his strength and his magic simultaneously (as opposed to across different battles) is to use a class he only has one faire for: Dark Knight or Dread Fighter. And hard supports really don’t want to be mageknights, they want to focus on physical or magical attacks, get a faire for whichever one they pick, and then focus on dealing lots of damage with that weapon type, since they’re not affected by Aegis+ or Pavise+. On the plus side, Ricken does pass down Bowfaire and Hit+20 so he can do the Bowfaire Warrior tactic I mentioned reasonably well, though obviously not as well as Virion or especially Stahl. But then, it is a minor damage difference. All in all I don’t recommend it unless you need two magical Sage hard supports (which to be fair is possible and could actually help).

Father 7: Libra

Mods: Str+4, Mag+2, Skl+1, Spd+0, Lck+0, Def+3, Res+0.

New Classes: Mage, Dark Mage.

Notable New Skills: Anathema, Mag+2.

Notes: If you really want to make two magical hard supports, this is probably your best bet without sacrificing any really important fathers. Easily more worthwhile than Ricken!Gerome.

Worst Father: Frederick

Mods: Str+6, Mag-1, Skl+2, Spd-2, Lck+1, Def+5, Res-1

New Classes: Cavalier, Knight.

Notable New Skills: NONE.

Notes: Hard supports need a Faire to really fill out their skill slots, and Frederick not only doesn’t give any, he also nerfs the necessary stat for the one Faire he comes with (Tomefaire). And this is on top of not giving berserker or a hit boosting skill, and there’s even a little bit of class overlap going on here. The worst part? For some strange reason there’s this rumor going around that has quite a few players convinced that this is actually a good pairing. It’s not, at least not for Apotheosis. But then, Gerome sucks royally for in-game since he comes so late, so yeah it pretty much just sucks in general.

Should You Use Avatar On Him?

ABSOLUTELY NOT. In all honestly hard supports have very little to gain or lose when compared to leads, they’re a lot simpler to make in general. They only care about two stats (strength/mag and skill), can always get access to most of the skills they need to be optimal except for a faire and occasionally a hit boosting skill, and generally already come with passable or even optimal classes. Gerome gains very, very little from being fathered by the Avatar, and to top it all off, his mother’s speed is negative, so Morgan will have the worst speed of any Morgan we’ve talked about so far. And again, the stats Cherche does give Morgan are rather unimpressive compared to some of the other children we’ve talked about.

YARNE:

Mods: Str+3, Mag+0, Skl+3, Spd+4, Lck+0, Def+2, Res+0.

Standard Classes: Taguel, Barbarian, Thief.

Notable Standard Skills: Axefaire, Str+2 (must be inherited), Tantivy (must be inherited).

No, you didn’t read that wrong. For some reason, Panne’s Wyvern Rider inheritance gets turned into Barbarian for her son, despite it not being a female-exclusive class. Anyway… Ah Yarne. If only, if only, if only he could get Galeforce. His mods are absolutely perfect to be a lead unit, but he’s stuck being a hard support. However, he can handle that quite well. He only has one good class set, but thankfully it’s the only one that matters for him: Barbarian. Thanks to this he has access to two excellent hard support classes in Berserker and Warrior, as well as a Faire to use with both of them. All he needs really is a father who gives him a hit boosting skill, and he can become an amazing Berserker hard support, even better than the avatar can be actually if you give him the right father. Thanks to his magnificent mods courtesy of his Taguel blood, he’s also easily one of the best candidates in the game for FeMU babymaking, resulting in a Morgan with excellent stats, particularly in terms of skill and speed. And if you play your cards right, you can even optimize Yarne to be both a fighter and father at once!

Father 1: Virion

Mods: Str+3, Mag+0, Skl+5, Spd+6, Lck-1, Def+0, Res+0.

New Classes: Archer, Mage, Wyvern Rider.

Notable New Skills: Hit+20, Skill+2, Bowfaire, Mag+2, Tomefaire, Str+2 and Tantivy (no longer need to be inherited with this pairing).

Notes: Easily the best Yarne possible overall. This guy can be an excellent Hit+20 Berserker or, if for some reason you don’t want to do that, he can be a Warrior and use whichever weapon you like, he’s got Faires for both. But that’s not all. He’s also pretty much the only unit in the game who is perfectly optimized both as a fighter and a father. Not only can a +Spd female Avatar and Virion!Yarne hit 75 speed easily with AS+2 as a Sniper-Berserker pair, but the Morgan they produce will have an ungodly speed mod of +10, which is enough to hit 75 speed in any class with a speed cap of 40 or more without any +Speed pair up bonus whatsoever. In short, their son can basically do whatever the hell he wants without consequence. Easily his all-around best option.

Father 2: Stahl

Mods: Str+5, Mag-1, Skl+4, Spd+4, Lck-2, Def+4, Res-1.

New Classes: Archer, Cavalier, Myrmidon.

Notable New Skills: Bowfaire, Hit+20, Skill+2.

Notes: Very narrowly beats out Virion!Yarne for best Yarne in terms of performance, if only because that extra 2 strength means he does 1 more damage, though not as good of a father due to not capitalizing much on his skill or at all on his speed. That’s basically all there is to say. If you can spare Stahl and don’t plan to marry Yarne, this is your best option.

Father 3: Gregor

Mods: Str+5, Mag-1, Skl+5, Spd+4, Lck-1, Def+3, Res-2.

New Classes: Mercenary, Myrmidon.

Notable New Skills: Armsthrift.

Notes: This doesn’t capitalize on Yarne’s advantages over Gerome and essentially turns him into a second Gerome with better speed and skill. It is, however, a very opportunity-cost-inexpensive way to make a pretty great Morgan, though I’ll cover that later, in the Morgan section. If you do that though, it’s fairly easy to achieve 100% DS with a +Skl Avatar if she’s a Sniper and he’s an Assassin, so you have that. Just make sure you pass down Str+2, it’ll be more useful than Tantivy as an Assassin.

Father 4: Lon’qu

Mods: Str+3, Mag+0, Skl+6, Spd+7, Lck+0, Def+0, Res-2.

New Classes: Myrmidon, Wyvern Rider.

Notable New Skills: Str+2 and Tantivy (no longer need to be inherited with this pairing).

Notes: This one is purely a breeding Yarne, plain and simple. It has the slight edge statistically over Virion in terms of both skill and speed, but this Yarne just plain isn’t as useful as Virion!Yarne is as a fighter. And the +1 stat bonuses to skill and speed won’t really mean much for Morgan, the only difference would be that Morgan can hit 75 speed as a General with an Assassin support instead of a Swordmaster support or Assassin combined with AS+2. Not the most useful thing you can do with a high speed morgan anyway, again, 75 speed is only useful for a physical unit against one enemy, and his mother can already achieve 75 speed with Virion!Yarne easily. Plus, Brady likes Lon’qu as a father a lot.

Father 5: Henry

Mods: Str+4, Mag+1, Skl+5, Spd+4, Lck-2, Def+3, Res-1.

New Classes: Dark Mage.

Notable New Skills: Anathema.

Notes: Really this only offers one thing to Yarne, and that’s Anathema. Not the best use of Henry or Yarne, to be honest, not by a longshot.

Father 6: Libra

Mods: Str+3, Mag+1, Skl+4, Spd+4, Lck-1, Def+2, Res+1

New Classes: Dark Mage, Priest, Mage.

Notable New Skills: Anathema, Mag+2, Tomefaire.

Notes: Better than Henry at least, since it now makes Yarne into a somewhat viable magic user too, though again, you really only want a hard support to focus on one stat, and not only is Gerome slightly better for getting turned into a magic user, but Yarne’s significantly better at being a physical hard support, so Yarne should be your second (and last) option for converting into a magical hard support.

Father 7: Ricken

Mods: Str+2, Mag+2, Skl+3, Spd+4, Lck+1, Def+1, Res+0.

New Classes: Mage, Archer, Cavalier.

Notable New Skills: Mag+2, Tomefaire, Hit+20, Skill+2, Bowfaire.

Notes: I kinda have to mention Ricken among his list of viable fathers since thanks to passing down Hit+20 Yarne’s still gonna be great, though for obvious reasons it’s much less optimal than Virion or Stahl, what with the lower strength mod and the fact that Ricken’s much more needed elsewhere.

Worst Father: Kellam.

Mods: Str+4, Mag+0, Skl+4, Spd+2, Lck-2, Def+5, Res+0.

New Classes: Knight, Priest.

Notable New Skills: Tomefaire.

Notes: Yarne’s pretty much going to be usable no matter what, but Kellam does the best job at minimizing his effectiveness. No new faires or useful skills, Tomefaire but no Mag+2 or a positive mag mod to offer, and to top it all off, his magnificent speed is nerfed so he’s no longer a particularly good father for Morgan either. And the craziest thing? Like with Frederick!Gerome, a lot of people seem to think this is a good pairing for some reason. I heard that it was initially popularized as a joke for some reason, but whatever the case, this is garbage.

Should You Use Avatar On Him?

A decidedly less emphatic no than with Gerome. He shares a lot of Gerome’s problems, namely having little to gain from having the Avatar as a father, but his stats are so much better that it’s nowhere near as bad an idea. Sure, Sumia’s still a way better option due to being Apotheosis capable and being more magic oriented to make better use of the speed, as well as her child also being truly capable of using that speed, but it’s still leagues above Gerome. Just know that Avatar’s genes aren’t really going to do much of anything for Yarne that Virion or Stahl can’t do for him.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Alastor15243

[jdb1984]

Very well, here you go:

My child plans, and my team, based on who I have so far.

Lucina
Father-Chrom
Mother-Sumia
Skills-Aether, (hopefully) Galeforce

Kjelle
Father-Gaius
Mother-Sully
Skills-Aegis, Movement +1
Class change-Pegasus Knight

Cynthia
Father-Chrom
Mother-Sumia
Skills-Aether, Galeforce

Info pending on Owain, Morgan, and Laurent

---

Main Team:
Avatar
Chrom
Sully
Miriel
Lissa
Sumia
Vaike
Kellam

Sometimes:
Virion

Not used:
Fredrick
Stahl

Unsure/Newly recruited:
Donnel

[Alastor15243]

Alright, so what in particular do you need help with?

Of the pairings you've done so far, they're pretty good (my only issue is Gaius!Kjelle, which I consider to be inferior to Gaius!Noire and puts Noire in a significantly more difficult situation than doing Gaius!Noire does. I do Gaius!Noire and Donnel!Kjelle). Is this for in-game or postgame? Apotheosis?

[jdb1984]

Well, I was pretty much just telling people what I was doing and getting opinions on it.

As of now, it's in game, but I do plan to get the DLC I'm missing one day

And what do you mean by Apotheosis?

[Alastor15243]

Well, I was pretty much just telling people what I was doing and getting opinions on it.

As of now, it's in game, but I do plan to get the DLC I'm missing one day

And what do you mean by Apotheosis?

Apotheosis is the final DLC map, an ultimate challenge map with ludicrously overpowered enemies. A lot of this thread's questions are about how to best pair up children and their parents to most effectively handle the map.

[jdb1984]

I'll have to look at that on Youtube. I may challenge it, but considering my total failure at Lunatic level in the main game, I'm not sure.

[Vascela]

Being good at Vanilla Lunatic, Lunatic+, and Apotheosis are all separate things. I wouldn't say that I'm a top of the line Lunatic player (mediocre to below average tbh), but I do have a large enough ego to boast my accomplishments for Apo.

You might find yourself successful in a different part of the game--maybe it's streetpass or Apo. Maybe you and a friend find a secret way to cheese double duel that nobody knows. But you shouldn't close a door for success just because you aren't gifted in only one portion of the game.

And on top of that, Alastor, Ownagepuff, and many others play Apo completely different than I do. They're all skilled in their own ways when doing the map, and I prefer my methods, but you can also find success in a niche way. You might not be very knowledgeable about no dlc/no rally, but you may be knowledgeable in yes dlc/no braves (as you probably know who I'm talking about lmao). It's not that any of us are smarter than each other, but we didn't close the door of success because we falter on a different aspect of the game.

[Airship Canon]

As Vascela said, Apoth and Lunatic are approached very differently. You can completely fail at the latter and utterly crush the former. [Not really seeing the reverse unless you've got no patience]

Apoth is more a test of strategic capacity than tactical-- as you can make it swing very differently just by using stronger units. How units are built- what skills and how things are put together make more a difference here than the individual movement of units on the battle. The map seems daunting- as enemies have Limit Breaker-class stats and rock Lunatic+ skills and all have Dragonskin, but it's really tactically simple- no more than Hard Mode at the fiercest, although play it going in without DLC and Rally, and you'll find it's a lot harder than had you brought them, as it's more on your stats and skills.

Lunatic(+) are focused on the tactical. Individual movements decide most everything.

They're quite different in application.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Airship Canon

[Ownagepuffs]

I'll have to look at that on Youtube. I may challenge it, but considering my total failure at Lunatic level in the main game, I'm not sure.

Good thing about this board is that we have a thread for Apotheosis help and a thread for Lunatic help.

And on top of that, Alastor, Ownagepuff, and many others play Apo completely different than I do. They're all skilled in their own ways when doing the map, and I prefer my methods, but you can also find success in a niche way. You might not be very knowledgeable about no dlc/no rally, but you may be knowledgeable in yes dlc/no braves (as you probably know who I'm talking about lmao). It's not that any of us are smarter than each other, but we didn't close the door of success because we falter on a different aspect of the game.

vascela-kun...

[MelonGx]

FE:A Challenging

Apotheosis without handicap - 5/10 - Need pairing optimization & skillset building <-- Which is what we mainly discussed in this thread

Apotheosis with handicap - 7/10 (Disable LB or Rally) 9/10 (Disable both) - Need pairing optimization & skillset building but more specific than normal.

Lunatic No-grind with Water Trick - 5/10 - Doesn't need pairing optimization.

Lunatic No-grind without Water Trick - 7/10 - N/A

Lunatic+ No-grind with Water Trick - 9/10 - MU x Chrom decreases the difficulty so much but other pairings don't.

Lunatic+ No-grind without Water Trick - Impossible? - N/A

Ref.

FE Fates Hard Classic - 6/10

[jdb1984]

Alright, so what in particular do you need help with?

Of the pairings you've done so far, they're pretty good (my only issue is Gaius!Kjelle, which I consider to be inferior to Gaius!Noire and puts Noire in a significantly more difficult situation than doing Gaius!Noire does. I do Gaius!Noire and Donnel!Kjelle). Is this for in-game or postgame? Apotheosis?

Besides a few luck points and Aptitude, I don't see anything that Donnel can offer that Gaius can't. Though it's true that Pegasus Knight Kjelle may not need the speed boost.

[Alastor15243]

Besides a few luck points and Aptitude, I don't see anything that Donnel can offer that Gaius can't. Though it's true that Pegasus Knight Kjelle may not need the speed boost.

It's not that Donel!Kjelle is better than Gaius!Kjelle, it's that Gaius's benefit to Noire is way better than his benefit to Kjelle, and Kjelle can handle having Donnel as a father better. Speed really isn't all that valuable to a physical fighter when they're using limit breaker, because the only high speed bosses a physical unit can defeat equally or better than a magical unit is Anna, and there's only one of her, compared to five aegis berserkers and two nightmare snipers. Kjelle, being solely a physical fighter, only needs extra speed when DLC is banned. When it isn't, that speed bonus is way better spent on Noire, who can use Gaius's mods and skills to become easily the best equipped non-morgan unit to tackle the Aegis Berserkers, having just enough speed to double all of them in Dark Knight with a Sage support.

[jdb1984]

What about Virion!Noire? Same speed modifiers and better magic modifier. Unless she needs that extra strength point or a skill from Gaius, that may be a good choice.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Stahl!Severa could run Vengeance+Vantage in the same manner as Gregor!Severa would, that option still exists. : /

Edited July 24, 2015 by Formerly Colm

[Alastor15243]

What about Virion!Noire? Same speed modifiers and better magic modifier. Unless she needs that extra strength point or a skill from Gaius, that may be a good choice.

The difference is that Virion doesn't give her Galeforce OR Astra. And you REALLY don't want to be using Vengeance while fighting Thronie, he does too much damage, forcing you to fight him at a higher HP, making the damage output far less stable and reliable than Luna and Astra together.

[Vascela]

Vengeance snipers are probably the best units to fight the zerks imo lol. The power of a long bow. Hit them a few times before all-in. Makes life very simple. Great target for dance as well.

[Xenomata]

What about Virion!Noire? Same speed modifiers and better magic modifier. Unless she needs that extra strength point or a skill from Gaius, that may be a good choice.

From a stat perspective, Virion does offer SLIGHTLY better Magic, ergo making for a slightly stronger Sorcerer, Sage, or Dark Knight Noire. Though whatever differences between the two are only by one point (STR, MAG, LUK, DEF).

Skill wise, Virion has no Male exclusive classes, so anything he can get, so can Noire. Mage and Dark Mage has an overlapping promotion, which means the class pool isn't quite as vast as with Gaius. The only skills that stand out from a Virion!Noire would be Tomefaire and MAYBE the -Breaker skills from the Wyvern Rider promotions. Comparatively, Gaius can pass on Counter or HP+5, and Noire can grab Galeforce, Astra, Vantage, and Swordfaire if Levin Sword Trickster is desired.

Class wise, Virion!Noire really only gets one more notable class in Sage, which... I guess works for having another healer on hand? Wyvern Lord/Griffon Rider don't get any use out of the good magic or skill/speed caps. Comparatively, Gaius offers classes from Pegasus Knight, Thief, and Myrmidon, with notable alternative final options for Noire being Trickster and Dark Flier if Sorcerer or Dark Knight don't have a place for Noire.

Honestly, I'm just trying to figure out Nah... if Kjelle and Noire are already taken, then Nah either needs to be born by the Avatar for the generally vast skillpool, or just pass on it altogether... a Speed+Defense- Avatar can offspring a Nah/Morgan with STR+2/MAG+2/SKL+2/SPD+3/LUK+3/DEF+1/RES+2, which after Dragonstone+ bonuses can make for pretty good Manaketes, but those modifiers just seem WAY TOO BALANCED for really any scenario...

[jdb1984]

Okay, you convinced me. Though i liked the idea of a thief and a palace guard (if Sully is one) getting together.

But not I'm trying to decide on whether Owain or Brady get Ricken (Laurent was rejected due to skill overlap).

I'm leaning towards Brady due to the +2 skill and +1 resistance. But Owain does have one advantage, with only a -1 in defense rather than -3. Both mothers can eventually give Galeforce.

[Alastor15243]

Stahl!Severa could run Vengeance+Vantage in the same manner as Gregor!Severa would, that option still exists. : /

Oh, were you referring to what I wrote in my guide? Well the problem with that is that VV isn't remotely viable without brave weapons, which my guide assumes you aren't using. I didn't see much point to making a pairing guide to no-holds-barred, because you can literally beat Apotheosis with ANY pairings with ease as long as you understand the importance of passing down galeforce. So basically, I didn't mention it because as far as the guide is concerned it's a bad idea.

Vengeance snipers are probably the best units to fight the zerks imo lol. The power of a long bow. Hit them a few times before all-in. Makes life very simple. Great target for dance as well.

Maybe in the challenge runs you do, but otherwise, Noire can just cut to the chase and one-round them with a very high reliability when paired with Sage Laurent. A vengeance sniper has more setup for a less efficient result.

Okay, you convinced me. Though i liked the idea of a thief and a palace guard (if Sully is one) getting together.

But not I'm trying to decide on whether Owain or Brady get Ricken (Laurent was rejected due to skill overlap).

I'm leaning towards Brady due to the +2 skill and +1 resistance. But Owain does have one advantage, with only a -1 in defense rather than -3. Both mothers can eventually give Galeforce.

Owain. Owain needs Luna, Ignis or Vengeance, Brady wants speed, specifically from either Virion or Lon'qu. I'd go with Lon'qu because Lon'qu has fewer applications than Virion and better speed to offer Brady.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Vascela]

I haven't been able to play much FE with not much time on my hands. I still have to grind up 16 Spotpass units (which probably will leave me with enough gold for weapons + forge).

Well the problem with that is that VV isn't remotely viable without brave weapons

I will make you eat those words. Hopefully in August after my summer course ends.

[Alastor15243]

I haven't been able to play much FE with not much time on my hands. I still have to grind up 16 Spotpass units (which probably will leave me with enough gold for weapons + forge).

Well the problem with that is that VV isn't remotely viable without brave weapons

I will make you eat those words. Hopefully in August after my summer course ends.

Before factoring in Dragonskin, you have to do 160 damage in two attacks. To do that you'd have to rely on criticials with a 100% success rate, AND have a 100% DS rate, and get yourself just the right amount of damage taken before you start doing VV. The only person who can accomplish all of these things is somebody with Sorcerer who is married to either Chrom or Lucina. And that's assuming the enemy doesn't have Aegis+, in which case forget it, you're screwed. Maybe if Lucina could have a 100% crit build too, in back, but she can't, even if she goes for a Sol Katti swordmaster, because she can't even get wrath or gamble.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Alastor15243