PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Xenomata]

Those aren't the only enemy units I'd be worried about with regard to crits - what about Dark Mages (Anathema + possible Thunder magic), Mages (Focus + possible Thunder magic), Fighters (Zeal), and especially Barbarians (Gamble)?

Dark Mages only begin to appear in Chapter 5, after you become capable of training, and most will end up using Flux early on.

Mages with Focus generally find themselves in close proximity to other enemy units, so the skill can't activate. Unless you draw the mage alone on purpose, this shouldn't pose too big a problem, especially since the only mages in the early game that carry Thunder appear in Chapter 4, one chapter after Spotpass or Reeking Box training is unlocked.

Zeal fighters only gain 5 crit, and are fairly inaccurate/lower in skill anyways, plus you are given an abundance of Sword wielding units early on. There is a reason why Zeal hardly ever gets use.

Gamble Barbarians will lose some of their hit rate, and don't have much skill anyways. As with the above, swords are still their enemy.

All in all though, the critical rate just winds up not being high enough to be too big of a worry, especially if you are capable of ganging up on enemy units.

...oh my, I'm not even on topic anymore, let alone talking about what I came here for in the first place. I apologize, I meant no harm to the thread.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Xenomata

[Shadow Mir]

Yeah that Harold. They had you in mind when making him, I bet.

I get the feeling you're being sarcastic - you know full well that I consider critical-susceptible units more of a liability than an asset.

Dark Mages only begin to appear in Chapter 5, after you become capable of training, and most will end up using Flux early on.

Mages with Focus generally find themselves in close proximity to other enemy units, so the skill can't activate. Unless you draw the mage alone on purpose, this shouldn't pose too big a problem, especially since the only mages in the early game that carry Thunder appear in Chapter 4, one chapter after Spotpass or Reeking Box training is unlocked.

Zeal fighters only gain 5 crit, and are fairly inaccurate/lower in skill anyways, plus you are given an abundance of Sword wielding units early on. There is a reason why Zeal hardly ever gets use.

Gamble Barbarians will lose some of their hit rate, and don't have much skill anyways. As with the above, swords are still their enemy.

All in all though, the critical rate just winds up not being high enough to be too big of a worry, especially if you are capable of ganging up on enemy units.

...oh my, I'm not even on topic anymore, let alone talking about what I came here for in the first place. I apologize, I meant no harm to the thread.

You do realize I had higher difficulties in mind?

[Xenomata]

.

You do realize I had higher difficulties in mind?

I am well aware of that.

I also possess a beginners understanding as to what is nessesary and required to know when jumping into Lunatic or Lunatic+.

So I went ahead and checked myself to see what just the Prologue will throw at me (accidentally overwrote my old save to), and the only thing I didn't expect to find were D rank weapons

Prologue: Most all of the Barbarian had Gamble, and out of the two mages on the map, only one had a Thunder-based tome. The Myrmidons had enough Critical to grant them a 3% chance to crit on Chrom

However, the mages didn't have Focus like you have mentioned.

Granted I will need to go through the maps manually to see just what it is you are going on about, so gimme a little while to get through the first few chapters.

Gods this is gonna be annoying...

Chapter 1: 2 out of 4 Fighters had Zeal. The Mercenaries and Archers did not have enough crit to be capable of critting against Frederick, Chrom, and Lissa. The avatar, who was Luck flawed, could easily be critted at a 5% chance.

...okay I give, I'm never going to be able to compile my findings into one space. Let's just say that they don't have crit increasing skills all the time, and that most of the crit comes from weapons and stats, but it generally isn't high enough to mean much of anything when most every unit already has a good amount of luck.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Xenomata

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

After at least five quick plays through Normal Newcomer I finally decided to start a bit harder file, mainly for decent StreetPass teams. That's how my Hard Classic playthrough began (has yet to begin, I'm waiting before chapter 2 :P).

Right now, I'm looking for the best pairings. I did this list from five websites:

Chrom - Olivia Sumia is better for Lucina and Cynthia, but it works

Henry - Sumia See above, but use 'Chrom' instead of 'Sumia'

Ricken - Miriel Solid, but there may be better options, as you will see below. Since Gregor won't be with Panne, I'd recommend him

Libra - Lissa Solid, BUT Ricken is better unless you really like vengeance.

Stahl - Cordelia Solid as long as you don't mind her hair

Gregor - Panne Panne wants Virion (or Stahl if he's not available), and I'm not seeing Virion, so do Virion

MU/Kellam - Nowi There are better options for a good Morgan, but this works if you want to make Nah more viable. Solid

Frederick/Vaike - Cherche Noooooooo. Cherche wants Henry, Stahl, or Virion. I'd recommend giving her Henry so you can do Chrom x Sumia, then put someone else like Libra (magical Inigo) or Frederick (phgysical Inigo) on Olivia

Donnel/Vaike - Sully Donnel

Lon'qu - Maribelle Solid af

Gaius - Tharja see above

? - Tiki She can only marry MU and is one of the worst mothers for Morgan so you don't even need to think about her.

As you can see, I'm struggling between a few. But none of these have been locked in, so feel free to correct me. Also, I'm not against 2nd gen to 1st gen pairings, it's just that none of the sites did lists with such pairings in it.

So I'm looking forward for suggestions, and thanks in advance!

[Guest Corrin]

Thanks a lot! So you do not recommend 1st to 2nd gen pairings? Anyway, here's my updated list:

Chrom - Sumia

Gregor - Miriel

Ricken - Lissa

Stahl - Cordelia

Virion - Panne

Henry - Cherche

Donnel - Sully

Lon'qu - Maribelle

Gaius - Tharja

Libra/Frederick - Olivia

Nowi - ?

MU - ?

Tiki gets lonely. So who do you recommend for Nowi and MU? And can I ask here classes/skills to be passed down recommendations?

[Azz]

Thanks a lot! So you do not recommend 1st to 2nd gen pairings? Anyway, here's my updated list:

Chrom - Sumia

Gregor - Miriel

Ricken - Lissa

Stahl - Cordelia

Virion - Panne

Henry - Cherche

Donnel - Sully

Lon'qu - Maribelle

Gaius - Tharja

Libra/Frederick - Olivia

Nowi - ?

MU - ?

Tiki gets lonely. So who do you recommend for Nowi and MU? And can I ask here classes/skills to be passed down recommendations?

I am not the best but here are my suggestions:

MU should marry Lucina or Cynthia depending on whether you plan on marrying one to another 2nd gen.

Nowi should marry Vaike, Henry or Stahl.Considering Vaike is your only one left over Vaike should be married to Nowi.

As for skills, really passing down skills does not matter much if you have a solid set-up for you kids.Though generally you want to pass down faires, sometimes rallies can work, or level 15 skills if you don't want to grind kids to get them or if they can't get them normally(Particularly Galeforce especially for Owain, Inigo and Brady).Procs can work too but they tend to be level 5 skills so they are easy to get without much grinding.

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

Thanks a lot! So you do not recommend 1st to 2nd gen pairings? Anyway, here's my updated list:

Chrom - Sumia

Gregor - Miriel

Ricken - Lissa

Stahl - Cordelia

Virion - Panne

Henry - Cherche

Donnel - Sully

Lon'qu - Maribelle

Gaius - Tharja

Libra/Frederick - Olivia

Nowi - ?

MU - ?

Tiki gets lonely. So who do you recommend for Nowi and MU? And can I ask here classes/skills to be passed down recommendations?

Personally, I like marrying first gen more because I like the idea of the avatar being sort of 'part of the group' or something like that. But, that could also be due to me not caring for any of the female children. However, this is just my personal preference.

Those look good, pretty similar to the ones I use.

MU x Nowi is quite good because unless MU is the father, Nah cannot get everything she wants. She needs both a proc (luna, ignis, vengeance) and galeforce. Donnel and Gaius can give her galeforce, but neither gives her a reliable proc. Stahl, Vaike, and Henry give her a proc, but no galeforce. They're generally preferred because Kjelle and Noire need galeforce way more than Nah does. MU does giver her both a proc and galeforce, but Morgan is slightly worse in exchange. Of course, they'll both do great, but nothing as spectacular as Lucina/Cynthia!Morgan. so if you want two great children, do MU x Nowi, and if you want one good one and one outstanding one, do Vaike x Nowi and MU x Lucina/Cynthia. With Vaike unused, it works well.

Other than Inigo, Owain, and Brady getting galeforce, passing down doesn't really matter. Just pass down stuff that makes your life easier.

[Alastor15243]

Other than Inigo, Owain, and Brady getting galeforce, passing down doesn't really matter. Just pass down stuff that makes your life easier.

ALWAYS PASS AXEFAIRE TO ANY GIRL WHO CAN GET IT. ESPECIALLY WHICHEVER GIRL GETS VAIKE AS A DAD.

[Vascela]

ALWAYS PASS AXEFAIRE TO ANY GIRL WHO CAN GET IT. ESPECIALLY WHICHEVER GIRL GETS VAIKE AS A DAD.

If they don't end in a class that uses axes, then it's 100% worthless junk. Never deal with absolutes!

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

ALWAYS PASS AXEFAIRE TO ANY GIRL WHO CAN GET IT. ESPECIALLY WHICHEVER GIRL GETS VAIKE AS A DAD.

oh shit

Yes definitely do this, especially if you are doing Vaike!Nah or Vaike!Severa

and even if you MU!Nah, pass axefaire down anyway just in case

I'm thinking about attempting an analysis of every father for each child, just to show their potential and kinda organize my thoughts. it would be a running thing because that's a lot to write up (I'd do one kid at a time) Would anyone be interested in seeing that? I'd definitely welcome corrections if needed

[Alastor15243]

oh shit

Yes definitely do this, especially if you are doing Vaike!Nah or Vaike!Severa

and even if you MU!Nah, pass axefaire down anyway just in case

I'm thinking about attempting an analysis of every father for each child, just to show their potential and kinda organize my thoughts. it would be a running thing because that's a lot to write up (I'd do one kid at a time) Would anyone be interested in seeing that? I'd definitely welcome corrections if needed

Sure, it would be interesting seeing different thoughts written in that sort of format than my own :)

If they don't end in a class that uses axes, then it's 100% worthless junk. Never deal with absolutes!

There's still pretty much no reason not to pass it just in case you change your mind later.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Alastor15243

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

Alright, then let's start easy with Lucina.

Also note that I'm going to cover Morgan throughout the other analyses and do Morgan exclusive parents for the Morgan section, because otherwise the Morgan section would be absolutely gigantic even compared to the other sections

[spoiler=Lucina analysis]

LUCINA

Father: Chrom

Base mods: 2/1/2/2/2/0/0

Base Classes: Lord (F), Cavalier, Archer

Lucina is quite good. She starts off with access to two of the best procs in the game, and some amazing classes to use them in. There's just one thing missing: Galeforce. Lucina needs galeforce for her to be great, and most of her mothers can provide it. When pairing Chrom, you need to take some things into account: galeforce, mods, and the second child.

Robin!Lucina

Mods: Depends on Asset/Flaw

New classes: All female classes that she didn't have before

Pros: Diverse class sets for Lucina, amazingly OP ingame

Cons: Morgan loses a ton of potential, Lucina gets everything she needs from Sumia

With this pairing you can do some crazy stuff that no other parent can do, like Hero!Lucina or Lucina with a +6 strength mod, or...you get the idea. There are a lot of options. However, a lot of these options are inferior to easy things you can access with Sumia as the mother. Robin makes Lucina very good, but only slightly better than someone like Sumia. This pairing also has the consequence of making Morgan really boring. All Morgan needs to be great is mods to help him out. Chrom's are okay, however there are many way better options. Overall, it's good, and if you really really like Chrom, feel free to do it, but if you care a lot about how good your second gen is, stay away. I rate this pairing 5/10

Sully!Lucina

Mods: 1/1/4/4/2/-1/0

New classes: Myrmidon, Wyvern Rider

Pros: Good ingame

Cons: NO GALEFORCE, Ruins Kjelle

Nike- Just don't do it. This pairing is very bad. I talked before about how the only thing Lucina wants is galeforce, and Sully can't provide it. The extra classes seem cool, but then you realize that Lucina doesn't really need them. Not only does Sully not give Galeforce to Lucina, Kjelle is also prevented from getting Galeforce, thus ruining her as well. This is the only pairing for Lucina that is not only not good for Lucina, but also destroys the potential of another child. If you even care somewhat about making your kids good, DON'T DO THIS PAIRING. I give it a 1/10 for good class selection for a non-galeforce unit.

Sumia!Lucina

Mods: 0/1/4/5/2/-2/1

New classes: Pegasus Knight, Cleric, Knight

Pros: GALEFORCE, amazing speed mod with the ability to hit 45 speed as a sniper w/Berserker support, makes Cynthia equally as godly, great ingame

Cons: strength mod isn't great

Without a doubt the best pair for Chrom. Lucina gets the galeforce that she needs, and Cynthia gains aether to proc stack, and the sniper class with a good enough speed mod to hit 45 speed as a sniper with berserker support (aka she becomes a second Lucina except without DS+). Sumia also only has one other good husband choice, and he's in very high demand for other children. Even more reason, all of Chrom's other baes do way better with other people. To be honest, there's not really much else to say about it other than it's an absolutely amazing pair. I'm giving it a 10/10.

Maribelle!Lucina

Mods: -1/3/3/2/5/-3/2

New classes: Pegasus Knight, Mage, Troubadour

Pros: GALEFORCE, magical Lucina

Cons: not so good mods, not so good Brady

This pairing really only has one use: making a magical Lucina that goes with a sage for 100% DS VV. Other than that, it's not great. The mods are very mediocre, and Brady comes very close to being the worst he can be (which arguably still isn't that bad). Overall, it's eh unless you're doing a supersaiyan op two unit solo super special awesome chocolately fudge covered mega super run of apotheosis. I give it a 4/10.

Olivia!Lucina

Mods: 2/1/3/3/2/-1/-1

New classes: Pegasus Knight, Myrmidon

Pros: GALEFORCE, fantastic Inigo

Cons: doesn't hit 45 speed as a sniper, Cynthia loses potential (really this is a con for all non-Sumia pairings)

Lucina gets galeforce without getting her stats mutilated, so it's fairly good. It's definitely not on the same level as Sumia, but it still does its job well. It also makes Inigo very good, however Inigo gets the same benefits (besides the awesome hair) from other fathers such as Stahl or Frederick. So if you like it or Henry x Sumia, go for it. Lucina will do very well, and Inigo will be arguably the best he can be. I give it a 7/10

Maiden!Lucina

Mods: Same as base

New classes: none

Pros: not as bad as Sully

Cons: no galeforce, bad mods

It's basically Sully!Lucina but it doesn't ruin Kjelle or any other child. Which means it's slightly better. 1.5/10

I'd love to hear feedback about this, stuff I did well, stuff I could have done better, etc.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Duck

[HeoandReo]

Alright, then let's start easy with Lucina.

Also note that I'm going to cover Morgan throughout the other analyses and do Morgan exclusive parents for the Morgan section, because otherwise the Morgan section would be absolutely gigantic even compared to the other sections

-Lucina snip-

I'd love to hear feedback about this, stuff I did well, stuff I could have done better, etc.

I think that's a fair assessment. I think that Chrom/Maribelle could stand to be a little higher, but not by too much. 2 speed Brady is still alright - A Brady is still a decent Brady no matter what. Maribelle could also work with 100% Dual Strike with Celica's Gale. She won't have as much firepower as Sumia since she lacks a proc, but they could get the job done in a pinch.

It could also be argued that Maiden!Lucina is slightly better mod-wise than Sully!Lucina, at least when it comes to what their purposes will be. (Female supporter - Sully!Lucina wins for classes, but Maiden!Lucina wins for strength. With Dual Strike+ she doesn't care too much for skill)

Chrom/Sumia is definitely the best pair in the game by a large margin though. Sumia and Chrom compliment each other perfectly skill-wise, and both kids are in their best non-Avatar iterations possible.

Chrom/Sumia is also the best possible pairing from an opportunity standpoint in my view. The opportunity costs that come from pairing them elsewhere are not insignificant and affect every member of the family.

Putting Chrom elsewhere means that Sumia stands a risk of not getting married. Like you said, her other husbands are in high demand (Well except Frederick but Frederick is barely relevant as a father anymore except for Inigo) and taking one hurts a bunch of other kids. Hard supports and Galeboys will miss Henry, while Kjelle/Noire really want to have Gaius so that they can contribute to the team.

Giving Sumia to someone else means that Chrom is stuck with a few issues: He can support Olivia, which means you either lose Dancer utility or a 100% Dual Strike. He can support Maribelle, who as mentioned earlier isn't quite as strong as Sumia damage-wise. Or he can support Sully, severely crippling Lucina and Kjelle and having a wife who cannot possibly take advantage of his assets.

Lucina losing her 5 speed makes a bunch of her sets less viable. Cynthia... doesn't care one way or another unless they hurt speed, but she'll miss Aether, which is one useful skill to her she can't get from anyone else.

You do discuss the opportunity costs a bit, which is good. It's just something that I notice isn't talked about too much by others, so further exploration on it might be good when looking at the other kids.

[Vascela]

There's way too much Sumia bias in that. I'm also guessing that's Apo only (in which case I'd vote for Maribelle for the 10/10 if we say that no other parts of the game mattered).

[Alastor15243]

I like your guide, Duck, though you should point out that another disadvantage of Maribelle is that, unlike Sumia and to a lesser extent Olivia, it leaves Chrom with pretty much nothing to do in Apotheosis besides run around being there to restock people.

Also, Chrom!Brady is FAR from the worst Brady (that dubious honor goes to Frederick, or Donnel if you wanna include opportunity cost), but you are correct in the sense that he easily gets the least benefit from being fathered by Chrom of the three kids of the standard galeforce wives.

[Xenomata]

There's way too much Sumia bias in that. I'm also guessing that's Apo only (in which case I'd vote for Maribelle for the 10/10 if we say that no other parts of the game mattered).

It's very understandable bias. Galeforce, high speed/skill mods, Cynthia gets a good skill and equal mods, classes passed on can be useful.

Maribelle!Lucina suffers from the fact that her modifications aren't as great as Sumia's, and Brady winds up being worser than he could be. Overall, it is much less risky, and generally more beneficial because Henry can be used elsewhere, to let Lucina be mothered by Sumia.

[Alastor15243]

There's way too much Sumia bias in that. I'm also guessing that's Apo only (in which case I'd vote for Maribelle for the 10/10 if we say that no other parts of the game mattered).

...Why? She does a negligible 1 more magical damage than Sumia!Lucina and is inferior in every other stat that matters. And the only extra advanced classes she gets over Sumia!Lucina are dark knight and Valkyrie. And Valkyrie's main use is the superior speed to Dark Flier and Sage, which is pointless because Sumia!Lucina is faster in Dark Flier or Sage than Maribelle!Lucina is in Valkyrie. She's the worst of the three galeforce wives in apotheosis, it makes a mediocre Brady... What exactly makes her Sumia's equal in your eyes?

Edited August 6, 2015 by Alastor15243

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

Thank you for all the feedback :)

This is going to take forever to type

[spoiler=Owain analysis]

OWAIN

Mother: Lissa

Base mods: -1/3/0/1/3/0/2

Base classes: Myrmidon, Priest, Barbarian

How I imagine Owain's creation went down: "Alright so we need a kid for Lissa. Let's make him overly dramatic and crazy. Oh, and he can be a myrmidon so he can be dramatic about his sword and stuff. But wait, won't his mods be absolutely shit for a myrmidon since his mom is a magic user? Shhhhh...they never need to know..." Well, we know. Owain starts out as a myrmidon, yet more often than not, even as hisbase class, he'll start out with a higher base magic stat than base strength. This is because his strength mod is awful and his magic mod is fantastic, meaning he's a way better magic user than physical user. It's tragic really, with how much he talks about his sword hand and stuff like that, and he'll never be a great sword user (Well, he can be good, but chances are Inigo, Severa, and Kjelle will greatly outclass him). More on his skills, he has galeforce and tomefaire right off the bat, but he lacks a reliable proc. He really wants a father that can give him luna or vengeance. Other than that, he really doesn't need too much to reach maximum potential. So let's see which of his fathers make him great, and which ones screw him up horribly.

Robin!Owain

Mods: Varies

New classes: All male classes

Pros: diversity in class, can fix strength if wanted

Cons: Boring Morgan, opportunity cost

I think Robin!Owain is pretty much the same as Robin fathering most children: it's quite good for the child, but Morgan loses potential. All Owain wants is a proc, and ignis is pretty fantastic for him, however he can get luna from other fathers, meaning using Robin on him isn't the best. He does get diversity in classes, but really...he already has Sage, and all guys get Dread Fighter, so there's not much the avatar can provide him with. He does give him physical classes if you really want a physical Owain, but he can get them from other classes as well. Overall, don't do it unless you really like Lissa or Owain. 4/10

Frederick!Owain

Mods: 1/1/2/-1/3/2/2

New classes: Cavalier, Knight, Wyvern Rider

Pros: Owain gets luna

Cons: mods are ruined

Well, Owain gets his proc, but at the cost of his stats. They weren't spectacular to begin with, and now they're even worse. Now he's super slow, and isn't great in strength or magic. I suppose he's somewhat usable, but there are better physical fathers if that's really what you want. This one just overall isn't very good. 2.5/10

Virion!Owain

Mods: -1/3/2/3/2/-2/2

New classes: Archer, Wyvern Rider

Pros: mods aren't ruined

Cons: opportunity cost, no proc, new classes aren't great for him

This one might actually be worse than Frederick. This is going to come up a lot, but I really have to stress opportunity cost. If you're using Virion for Owain, you're not using him for Panne or Cherche, which is a serious problem. Furthermore, Virion doesn't give Owain a proc, and the new classes he gets are pretty much useless for him. His mods are alright, but nowhere near being good enough to redeem it (though really I don't think any mods could redeem the negatives of this pair). It's a pretty good contender for worst parent for Owain. 2/10

Stahl!Owain

Mods: 1/2/1/1/1/2/1

New classes: Cavalier, Archer

Pros: the best non-avatar physical Owain, Owain gets his proc

Cons: Opportunity cost

Despite the bland mods, you're actually looking at the best physical Owain you can get without being fathered by the avatar. He gets his proc, and his mods aren't getting completely ruined. In theory, he could be a decent berserker since he has Hit+20, but he'll still be pretty bland. Physical Owain in general is pretty bland, and that's this Owain's problem. There's also the obvious opportunity cost of not using Stahl for Severa or Gerome or Nah. so if you really have to have a physical Owain, do this. Otherwise, don't. 5/10.

Vaike!Owain

Mods: 2/1/1/2/2/0/0

New classes: Fighter, Thief

Pros: ...decent strength mod I guess?

Cons: opportunity cost, bland mods, bad class choices, no proc

Remember when I said Virion was a good contender for worst father for Owain? Meet the reigning champion, Vaike. He gives him strength, which is decent at best, but then doesn't give a proc, and doesn't give good class choices. Seriously, he only gives the hero class, which Owain is amazingly outclassed in by Inigo/Severa, and the (oh god) trickster class *cue audience laughter* This is a terrible use of Vaike, and a terrible waste of Owain. Nike- Just don't do it. .5/10

Kellam!Owain

Mods: 0/3/1/-1/1/3/2

New classes: Knight, Thief

Pros: doesn't hurt magic, gives a proc

Cons: dat speed, eh class choices

...basically Frederick!Owain, but magical instead of physical. Or actually, it's like Ricken!Owain, but with worse mods. If there are no other magical fathers available, I guess it works, but tbh you should easily be able to spare Ricken, Libra, or Henry for this somehow. It's a magical Owain with a proc, but it only does the bare minimum. We want more. 3.5/10

Donnel!Owain

Mods: 0/2/-1/0/6/1/1

New classes: Villager, Mercenary, Fighter

Pros: ...uh...hits 50 luck without LB?

Cons: bad mods, bad class choices, no proc

A serious contender to become the new reigning champion of bad Owains. It's basically Vaike, but with worse mods and less opportunity cost. If you value your kids at all, don't do it. .5/10

Lon'qu!Owain

Mods: -1/3/3/4/3/-2/0

New classes: Thief, Wyvern Rider

Pros: good mods

Cons: bad class selection, no proc, opportunity cost

Well, the mods are good. And that's it. You don't get a proc. You don't get good class choice. And you just lost a great father for Brady and Severa and Laurent. It's the same thing as Virion!Owain. Even though we all love Lon'qu and Lissa together, 2/10

Ricken!Owain

Mods: -2/5/0/1/4/-1/2

New classes: Cavalier, Archer

Pros: gets a proc, little opportunity cost, great magic

Cons: mods besides magic aren't amazing

Finally we get to break the streak of negativity. This is quite possibly the best father for Owain. He gives him the proc he's looking for, and improves his already good magic mod. His mods other than magic are still pretty bland, but they're by no means and still work quite well. And, Ricken isn't really used a lot for other children. Owain hits hard, and the other children aren't worse because of it. 8/10

Gaius!Owain

Mods: 0/2/2/3/1/-1/2

New classes: Thief, Fighter

Pros: I really thought hard about this, and I can't think of any

Cons: bland mods, bad class selection, no proc, serious opportunity cost

Remember when I said Vaike was the reigning champion of bad Owains? This is the Owain who taught him how to be a bad Owain. He has bad mods, the same shit class choices as Vaike (with even less strength), no proc, and without a doubt the worst opportunity cost of all. If you do this, either Kjelle or Noire will become useless, on top of Owain being useless. I would say this is easily THE WORST pairing for Lissa that you can do. 0/10

Gregor!Owain

Mods: 1/2/2/1/2/1/0

New classes: Mercenary

Pros: little opportunity cost

Cons: not so good mods, no proc

It's similar to Vaike and Gaius and Donnel, but the opportunity cost isn't as bad since Gregor isn't in as high demand. But don't get me wrong, it's still terrible. Everything I have to say about a pairing like this I've already said with Vaike/Donnel/Gaius. Don't do it. 1/10

Libra!Owain

Mods: -1/4/1/1/2/0/3

New classes: Dark Mage, Mage

Pros: pretty much no opportunity cost, gives a proc, high magic, good variety in magical classes

Cons: mods other than magic are boring

I'm happy that even with all the negativity in this analysis, we at least get to end on a good note. Libra!Owain gives him the proc he needs (Vengeance), and gets good magic without ruining his other stats. He also gets every magic class available, which is always helpful for a magical unit. If you wanted, you can even do the infamous Vengeance/Vantage combo to wreck everything. Libra also isn't really used anywhere else, so there's basically no opportunity cost. I'm going to give it a 8/10.

Henry!Owain

Mods: 0/4/2/1/1/1/1

New classes: Dark Mage, Thief

Pros: gives a proc, high magic

Cons: opportunity cost, non-magic mods aren't great

It's pretty much the exact same thing as Libra!Owain, but this time with high opportunity cost. Henry is in pretty high demand from some other children, so this one doesn't have that advantage that Libra!Owain has.It's still a good pairing, but I'd recommend Libra>Henry because Henry is better in other places. 7/10

A side note is that this is actually my favorite pair for both Lissa and Henry based on the fact that I just like together.

THIS TOOK FOREVER TO WRITE UP

Alright, so same as last time, feedback is welcome. Inigo will come as soon as I've got the time.

[Vascela]

...Why? She does a negligible 1 more magical damage than Sumia!Lucina and is inferior in every other stat that matters. And the only extra advanced classes she gets over Sumia!Lucina are dark knight and Valkyrie. And Valkyrie's main use is the superior speed to Dark Flier and Sage, which is pointless because Sumia!Lucina is faster in Dark Flier or Sage than Maribelle!Lucina is in Valkyrie. She's the worst of the three galeforce wives in apotheosis, it makes a mediocre Brady... What exactly makes her Sumia's equal in your eyes?

Well for no dlc/no brave 100% (if you read any of the pastebin calcs), you would know that Sumia!Lucina is 4 Mag down (+2 Mod, Mag +2) which is too much down to even help clear the generals. And we all know you consider no braves to be a more relevant conversation than "anything goes." Sumia!Lucina just isn't strong enough. She isn't faster (because both will hit Spd threshold on doubling the dark fliers). She isn't good enough for use. So it's not that Maribelle is equal to Sumia in my eyes--Sumia isn't as good. She doesn't offer us anything of value. And this is your version of a challenge with a harder twist.

I tried everything to make Sumia!Lucina work but I couldn't squeeze out enough damage that she just didn't have.

[Alastor15243]

Well for no dlc/no brave 100% (if you read any of the pastebin calcs), you would know that Sumia!Lucina is 4 Mag down (+2 Mod, Mag +2) which is too much down to even help clear the generals. And we all know you consider no braves to be a more relevant conversation than "anything goes." Sumia!Lucina just isn't strong enough. She isn't faster (because both will hit Spd threshold on doubling the dark fliers). She isn't good enough for use. So it's not that Maribelle is equal to Sumia in my eyes--Sumia isn't as good. She doesn't offer us anything of value. And this is your version of a challenge with a harder twist.

I tried everything to make Sumia!Lucina work but I couldn't squeeze out enough damage that she just didn't have.

...Seriously? A threshold of two damage is enough to make or break somebody on no DLC/No braves? If Sumia!Lucina isn't enough to help on the generals with a res of 35, then how is 4 more mag, dealing a total of four more damage over two attacks, so much better?

Also, which dark fliers, on what round?

Edited August 6, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Other than Inigo, Owain, and Brady getting galeforce, passing down doesn't really matter. Just pass down stuff that makes your life easier.

Male Morgan can also inherit Galeforce from FeMU, that option is also available.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Formerly Colm

[Vascela]

...Seriously? A threshold of two damage is enough to make or break somebody on no DLC/No braves? If Sumia!Lucina isn't enough to help on the generals with a res of 35, then how is 4 more mag, dealing a total of four more damage over two attacks, so much better?

Also, which dark fliers, on what round?

Yes, it does make or break when you don't do enough damage and you can die. Whereas Maribelle offers enough. And since we're not using braves, it isn't 4 damage over two attacks on the generals: it's only going to be 2 nuke damage! Quite surprising, isn't it? I used Bolganone (which offers enough, Thoron just has lower hit). If Sumia!Lucina uses Thoron, she gets 1 nuke damage over Bolganone... but struggles to get the last point. I thought I tried everything to get just one more damage, but it never happened. I really wanted to use Sumia!Lucina just so I could say she has some value in Apo over Maribelle. I really wanted Sumia!Lucina to have some merit there, but she just wasn't good enough.

If Sumia!Lucina had a magic surge, then it wouldn't matter. But I wouldn't say "X unit is better than Y unit because if X gets a surge she can perform equal to Y." That sounds a little silly, doesn't it?

Dark Fliers in Wave 4? You can bait them into Mire so you can double safely regardless of having 1 HP.

[Alastor15243]

And since we're not using braves, it isn't 4 damage over two attacks on the generals: it's only going to be 2 nuke damage! Quite surprising, isn't it?

I already factored that in. You said Maribelle!Lucina has 4 more magic between her mods and mag+2. 4 more magic equals 2 more damage after dragonskin, times 2 is 4.

Also, why aren't you using Regalia weapons? Valflame is more powerful than Thoron.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

In that scenario, wouldn't forged Silver weapons be more ideal?

[Alastor15243]

In that scenario, wouldn't forged Silver weapons be more ideal?

Well Sages can't equip them. And at any rate, the regalia always have some advantage over fully forged B rank weapons, be it better damage, a stat boost (that often results in better damage) or two-range.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Alastor15243