PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Dweorg]

So, I've just started a Lunatic+ challenge run that I intend to do Apotheosis in. In this run, I'm not allowed to use magic units on the endgame/Apoth (hybrid is okay, but I can't use tomes. It's allowed early game because of the prologue and support farming for kids,) no galeforce, no V/V, and no Brave weapons/Celica's. There are some other minor, self-enforced rules too, but those won't have an effect on pairings.

I made a preliminary pairing list, but admittedly I was slightly drunk while doing so. I want to rearrange it somewhat, but there are a couple of pairings that I'd like to stay the same. Aside from those noted, I'm open to suggestions on all the rest, keeping the limitations of my run in mind. I also will be killing Donnel, so don't suggest him for anything. It'll be a while before I actually need to finalize my list. Robin MUST marry someone from the first generation. This is another personal preference. We don't need two time jumps in one game.

Lissa X Henry - In runs where I don't throw Henry at Sumia, I always run this. It's probably my favorite support, so I'll be using it regardless of optimization.

Sully X Chrom - Honestly, I have no clue why I did this pairing. Still, since there is no galeforce in this playthrough, it's not so bad. I can at least make an awesome Sniper/Bow Knight/Assassin. Also, Kjelle is my third favorite kid, so I'd like to use her.

Miriel X Ricken - This pairing is unnecessary, since magic might as well not exist. Still, there's no real negative here outside of a lot of wasted points in magic and low str.

Sumia X Gaius - Gaius doesn't need to give a girl Galeforce, so I'm curious to see how this one actually turns out. It's staying.

Maribelle X Libra - See Miriel X Ricken. Unnecessary, and will be changed.

Panne X Frederick - I'm not using Yarne, probably. He's not bad, especially when I have to rely on physical and tanking, but I'm not a fan of his character. If I end up using him, it'll be instead of one of the magic boys.

Nowi X Robin - I think I put this one here because grr Dragon Morgan. It's not set in stone, but I might use this, even if I do dislike the support.

Cordelia X Stahl - Pretty standard.

Tharja X Lon'qu - Noire doesn't need Galeforce, so why not?

Olivia X Gregor - Good mods, but dat overlap.

Cherche X Vaike - Dat strength.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Better responses in the morning, but when you say no VV do you mean not using those skills as a combo or that both are individually banned?

Gregor!Inigo with GF banned is possibly the most useless unit in the entire game. Don't do that.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Dweorg]

Better responses in the morning, but when you say no VV do you mean not using those skills as a combo or that both are individually banned?

Gregor!Inigo with GF banned is possibly the most useless unit in the entire game. Don't do that.

Vengeance isn't a thing because I can't use Sorcerers. Vantage is fine on its own, though. Even if I have capped stats for Apoth, I can't ORKO anyone with just vantage.

[Czar_Yoshi]

There's a very nice Axe that comes with Vengeance, and if you're not using Braves it's kind of useful.

[~Silver]

Yarne would rather be a berserker than a Taguel.

Ah-ha!

I KNEW it!

Of course, for me it's rather Stahl as the father, but Berserker Yarne always felt right!

Owain(Final Class Dread Fighter but he will always be a Swordmaster at heart)

Hrmm. I'm in conflict with this as well. With MyUnit+HP-Lck as the father, Owain as a Swordsmaster just does not have good caps. But I keep him there though it's fitting.

Curse you, Dread Fighter! You and your... Bunny arm-shield.

I just. I can't. I can't get over that. Why. Why are you even there, bunny.

...with my poor choices of pairings, I'm beginning to think to ask for help Skill-Wise for said-pairings/units...

Edited January 26, 2015 by ~Silver

[Azz]

Okay I know I have been posting here a lot and I promise this will be the lsat time.

So anyways,I don't plan on making the ultra,super,killer street pass team but a team that can beat Apothesis(I don't think I spelled that right).As for final classes,well I already have base final classes but I will change their classed depending on the situation.

Okay I also am using Ricken cause I used the complete max stat calculator to see what Owain would look like as a Swordmaster/Dread Fighter and they were pretty good(Don't judge me).Anyways here they are(Mostly unchanged):

Chrom x Sumia=For Lucina(Final Class Great Lord) and Cynthia(Final Class Falcon Knight but will change in case I need her to be magically offensive to Dark Flier)

Ricken(Don't judge me) x Lissa=For Owain(Final Class Dread Fighter but he will always be a Swordmaster at heart)

Azz(MU +Str/-Lck) x Olivia=Adorable Morgan(Final class Grandmaster but could be sage for staffbotting in Apothesis) and Godly Inigo(A hero)

Henry x Maribelle=For a Brady (with access to Sorc and Axefaire I could make a pretty good War Monk w/Bolt axe)

Donnel x Sully=For my usual Kjelle(She will,like Owain,be a General at heart but I could make her a FK for staffbotting or something else like Paladin for Apothesis)

Stahl x Cordelia=The cookie cutter Severa(Hero)

Gregor x Cherche=My norm Gerome(Wyvern Lord)

Freddy x Panne=For good supportive Yarne(Taguel normally,but Griffon Rider for Apothesis or the challenge pack DLC)

Libra x Miriel=Cause I want preist on Laurent for both DS+(from Miriel) and Renewal.(Sage final class)

Gaius x Tharja=For Noire with access to GF(Sniper)

Vaike x Nowi=For the death lord Nah(Manakete)

Critique.(Also again don judged me from suddenly hating Ricken to decideing to use him)

Based on these pairings what skills and classes sholud my units be for Apo?Also any weapon recommendations are welcome.(Will be doing Apo at final chapter before endgame)(Sorry if this should not go here)

[Czar_Yoshi]

Hrmm. I'm in conflict with this as well. With MyUnit+HP-Lck as the father, Owain as a Swordsmaster just does not have good caps.

Nobody has good caps as a SM. They kind of reek as a class (not as bad as Taguel, but pretty near the bottom of the barrel). Assassins tie or stomp them in all relevant stats (seriously, who cares if SM has 4 more Mag?), give better pairup bonuses, are on all units who get SM, and aren't weaponlocked.

Based on these pairings what skills and classes sholud my units be for Apo?Also any weapon recommendations are welcome.(Will be doing Apo at final chapter before endgame)(Sorry if this should not go here)

...If you ask me to make an entire team based solely on the parent pairings, you're going to get something really generic. Are you OK with that?

Edited January 26, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Azz]

...If you ask me to make an entire team based solely on the parent pairings, you're going to get something really generic. Are you OK with that?

I just want to be able to beat Apo(both nornal and secrect).

Also they reason I quoted my parents so you would have a reference for the kids,I will use any units that I should use(I have all DLC too btw)

Edited January 26, 2015 by Azz01

[Kamui vi Britannia]

Are your pairings already done in game?

Edited January 26, 2015 by CloudJumper

[Azz]

Are your pairings already done in game?

Nearly,just need to get Henry then I am done.

I havan't had much time to play the game cause of school and also I have been grinding to get skills I want to pass down.

[bookwormbabe29]

Hi there!

So as some here might know from my other thread, this is my first play through (of many!) of this game. I'm reading up marriages as Chrom was just forcibly married, and trying to learn a little of how this works with as a few spoilers as possible. I'm not trying to maximize my gains at this point, but still would like a working knowledge of what is going on, if that makes sense. For that reason, I have not read the many pages of this thread, so my apologies if I go over old ground.

That said, I did want to ask a question. it seems there's a lot that is passed down, from growth rate to classes to skills. In general, what do 'the pro's' focus on passing down? Exclusive skills? Better class options? I'd think a great class option would be the best myself, but wasn't sure what the consensus was, or if there was a consensus.

For the curious, my pairings I am thinking of using for now are:

Chrom/Avatar

Sumia/Frederick

Cordelia/Gaius

Sully/Lon'qu

Lissa/Ricken

I don't know how this will work out (yet), or who else to pair up yet, but it's a start. I'm open to suggestions, though this is my normal mode 'speed' run of sorts, I'm not too stressed about it.

[Azz]

Well to answer your question bookworn(keep in mind I am also pretty new at this) the 'pros' try to maximize the kids as much as possible by giving them great stat modifiers,classes they could not get on their own(a popular one being peg. knight) and also some tend to pass down gender exclusive skills e.g. Galeforce to sons/Counter to daughters.(Counter is not good in as many situations as Galeforce however from my experience).

Really since I have read your topic I am aware you are playing normal where pairings don't matter(Unless you are doing Apothesis which is hard on all difficulties but on normal you should not focus on DLC since it dosen't shine help as much(But Paragon is useful)).

But yeah that is what I heard they base this stuff on.I am no expert so I just come here for advice.

Hope I kind of helped.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Not reading backwards in this thread is a good thing. It's very old and quite a lot has changed during its lifetime- everyone who does try to read back in it either gets confused or mad depending on how much they know about the game.

Generally, we place emphasis on getting child x child pairs that are well suited for the final DLC map, Apotheosis. This requires:

-Getting proper compliments of skills. Galeforce, procs (Luna, Ignis- skills that have a % chance of increasing your damage), Faire skills, and other stat boosting skills.

-Getting proper ending classes. We need the units to have classes that emphasize raw Atk in the back, and Skl/Spd in the front.

-Finally, hitting stat thresholds: for example, 75 Spd allows a pair to double every enemy in Apo, 220 Hit gives a 100% hitrate against all non-boss enemies, and 160 combined Skl between the two units with an S support gives a 100% Dual Strike chance. A lot of these are thresholds that you'll fall just short of using random/aesthetic pairs, but don't take too much work to hit if you're aiming for them and know how all the formulas and things work.

After that, we try to get as many good pairs as possible. A full team consists of 8 attack pairs, two Rally users and either two staff users or one staff user and Olivia as a Dancer, but people often change those numbers to add more staffbots in. It's largely a game of resource allocation, since fathers generally have multiple children who benefit from them and you have to decide who benefits the most from what, whether to take two good pairs or one exceptional pair and one average pair and whatnot.

Often, people will try to make teams that are fun to use outside of Apo as well as good in it, and this shapes reasoning- for example, Vaike and Panne's child does one thing very well, but not much else, making him pretty boring to play normally. Libra and Olivia's child, meanwhile, can do just about everything, but isn't the best at anything. There are some pairs that can even be the best at more than one thing while still being very good all around, such as Virion and Cordelia's child- these are the ones we look for.

and also some tend to pass down gender exclusive skills e.g. Galeforce to sons/Counter to daughters.

Passing down skills outside of Galeforce really isn't that big of a deal, actually. There are very few units who care what they inherit from their fathers when minmaxing and Counter doesn't do anything anyway.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Kamui vi Britannia]

Hi there!

So as some here might know from my other thread, this is my first play through (of many!) of this game. I'm reading up marriages as Chrom was just forcibly married, and trying to learn a little of how this works with as a few spoilers as possible. I'm not trying to maximize my gains at this point, but still would like a working knowledge of what is going on, if that makes sense. For that reason, I have not read the many pages of this thread, so my apologies if I go over old ground.

That said, I did want to ask a question. it seems there's a lot that is passed down, from growth rate to classes to skills. In general, what do 'the pro's' focus on passing down? Exclusive skills? Better class options? I'd think a great class option would be the best myself, but wasn't sure what the consensus was, or if there was a consensus.

Avatar/Chrom (Messes up Morgan's mods, Lucina doesnt need/want anything from Avatar)

Sumia/Frederick (Kills Cynthia's speed, Go for Chrom or Henry instead)

Cordelia/Gaius (Wastes Galeforce, have her marry Lon'qu/Virion/Vaike/Stahl)

Sully/Lon'qu (Wastes Myrmidion, 0 Str mod, have her marry Donnel or Gaius)

Lissa/Ricken (This is fine)

I don't know how this will work out (yet), or who else to pair up yet, but it's a start. I'm open to suggestions, though this is my normal mode 'speed' run of sorts, I'm not too stressed about it.

Edited January 26, 2015 by CloudJumper

[Czar_Yoshi]

I don't think that's what she was asking for. Observe "no spoilers" and "not trying to maximize my gains"- that was a general question about what is seen as good in pairings, not whether those particular pairs are top-tier for Apo.

[Alastor15243]

Hi there!

So as some here might know from my other thread, this is my first play through (of many!) of this game. I'm reading up marriages as Chrom was just forcibly married, and trying to learn a little of how this works with as a few spoilers as possible. I'm not trying to maximize my gains at this point, but still would like a working knowledge of what is going on, if that makes sense. For that reason, I have not read the many pages of this thread, so my apologies if I go over old ground.

That said, I did want to ask a question. it seems there's a lot that is passed down, from growth rate to classes to skills. In general, what do 'the pro's' focus on passing down? Exclusive skills? Better class options? I'd think a great class option would be the best myself, but wasn't sure what the consensus was, or if there was a consensus.

For the curious, my pairings I am thinking of using for now are:

Chrom/Avatar Best possible Lucina, nearly the worst possible Morgan, but in-game it's pretty awesome for both.

Sumia/Frederick Probably Sumia's worst marriage option for Cynthia, although Gaius will make your team suffer more on average, see below. Her best option is Chrom (and Chrom's best option is Sumia), followed by Henry.

Cordelia/Gaius Crash course on Gaius. Gaius and Donnel can pass down Galeforce access to daughters who don't have access to pegasus knight. These daughters are Kjelle, Noire and Nah. The problem is that Donnel passes down no useful procs and Gaius only passes down astra. Kjelle gets both Luna and Astra and Noire gets Luna, so generally the recommended path is Donnel!Kjelle and Gaius!Noire, as it gives them both Luna/Astra. Gaius!Kjelle is an incredibly awesome unit, but it makes Noire suffer somewhat so it's not recommended for beginners.

Sully/Lon'qu See above. Lon'qu's a great father, and this is probably among his worst applications.

Lissa/Ricken This one's great. Owain (and Inigo if you want a magical Inigo) can only get Luna and a good magic mod through Ricken.

I don't know how this will work out (yet), or who else to pair up yet, but it's a start. I'm open to suggestions, though this is my normal mode 'speed' run of sorts, I'm not too stressed about it.

Here's a quick rundown of generally accepted good fathers for each child (note that the avatar works for any of them, but is better used making a third gen version of the avatar's child with awesome stats)

[spoiler=Because you said no spoilers]

Lucina: Sumia, Maribelle, Olivia.

Cynthia: Chrom, Henry.

Brady: Virion, Lon'qu, Libra, Henry.

Owain: Ricken, Henry, Libra, Stahl if you absolutely must go physical with him.

Severa: Vaike, Stahl (horrible hair color, be warned), Virion, Lon'qu.

Kjelle: Gaius, Donnel.

Noire: Gaius, Donnel.

Nah: Vaike, Stahl, Henry, Gregor, Virion.

Inigo: Chrom, Stahl, Frederick, Kellam (very much not recommended, but he gives Luna), Libra, Ricken.

Yarne: Stahl, Virion, Libra, Frederick, Lon'qu (only if you're a FeMU and marrying him to make a super morgan, as otherwise this is a massive waste of Lon'qu).

Laurent: Libra, Henry, Gregor, Lon'qu, Ricken.

Gerome: Henry, Virion, Stahl, Gregor.

I may have missed some, but those are generally the recommended ones.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

Here's a quick rundown of generally accepted good fathers for each child

Names, names, names.

with as a few spoilers as possible

Don't talk about stuff that's not past where she is.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Alastor15243]

Don't talk about stuff that's not past where she is.

Sorry, didn't catch that part.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Sethera]

Czar_Yoshi covered most of it. I'm just adding the stuff I think about.

For pairings, I think another thing to keep in mind is inheriting skills that you might not get otherwise. For instance, if a parent can reclass into Wyvern Rider, but their child cannot, it might be best to pass down something from the Wyvern Rider tree. However, if it's a skill the child doesn't really need (Counter being a good example for some) then it might not be necessary.

Galeforce is recommended for quite a lot of children, and if you're going for optimization, try to pass it down or at least have the father pass down the Pegasus Rider tree. But imo the usefulness of Galeforce mainly depends on the child's role. If they're going to be working support more then Galeforce might not be necessary.

Another big thing is balance, however. There can be some children that have a "best father" but that might not be the way to go if you want to have a balanced team. Giving one child their "best father" might be a big way to screw over another child who really needed that father so you kind of have to think about the children as a group.

Also mainly, I find it best to just try and use as many different classes as possible. For instance, assassin is a really good class and a lot of people use it. If I went for pure optimization, probably a good percentage of my units would be assassins, but I tend to prefer variety. It might not be the most optimized, but imo it's more fun so yeah.

Btw, Apotheosis is a LONG way away for you, as it's basically the pinnacle of DLC. I wouldn't really worry about it yet.

[Bonch]

Libra is fine on Owain. You won't see any big advantages from using him over Ricken unless he's married to Lucina, but you also won't see any disadvantages (unless you don't like Vengeance as a proc).

There's nothing wrong with that team and it'll generally serve you fine. However, Virion has a lot of potential on quite a lot of children (including Yarne and Gerome, neither of which I see here) so it seems like a shame to bench him.

Alright, but; Libra gives sorcerer doesn't he? But not Ricken, and since I'm marrying Lucina, that won't be happening for what you mentioned.

I don't have the full list, so not everyone is there; sorry. Who I want help with mostly: Inigo(should he be mag or phys?) Gerome, Laurent and Yarne, I'm not sure who to have be their dads.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Libra does give Sorc, but... What are you going to do with it? Vengeance is simply an alternative to Luna, and it's a pretty bad end class for Apo.

Inigo will want to go with whatever suits your team more- some Inigos can swap between the two without changing fathers if you're feeling ambivalent. Usually, what kind of Inigo you want will depend on what you do with Nah, since he's the best suited Galeboy for being physical in the event that she wants to run General from Vaike or something. If Nah is magical or neutral, then he can go either way- usually physical with Noire/Kjelle or magical with Nah/Morgan.

[Diabeasty]

Quick question regarding Gaius!Kjelle. Aside from being able to hit 75 speed as a Wyvern Lord, does she have any other notable uses of the extra stats compared to Donnel!Kjelle? I'm trying to figure out if I want to give Gaius!Kjelle a shot in the future, I usually don't because Noire is one of my favorite characters in the game and I like having her be awesome.

[Alastor15243]

Quick question regarding Gaius!Kjelle. Aside from being able to hit 75 speed as a Wyvern Lord, does she have any other notable uses of the extra stats compared to Donnel!Kjelle? I'm trying to figure out if I want to give Gaius!Kjelle a shot in the future, I usually don't because Noire is one of my favorite characters in the game and I like having her be awesome.

I know she can hit 75 speed as a bride without the use of AS+2 with a dread fighter's speed boost, if you like using Bride-Dread Fighter duos. Just to clarify, Donnel!Kjelle can't hit 75 speed as a bride with a dread fighter boost even WITH AS+2.

She's also fast enough to not need a speed pairup or AS+2 to reach 75 speed as an assassin/SM. This means she can pair up with a sniper and hit 75 speed if she likes, and with +5 skill, that means that she can hit 100% DS if you can come up with +7 skill between her husband's mods and +skill skills. Stahl!Inigo (+3 skill) could bring her to 100% DS if they both had AS+2, albeit only when Inigo's in the back unless he gives up Luna or Aggressor for Skill+2/Defender. On a no-brave run this can be compensated for by using a Mystletainn on Kjelle for when Inigo's in front, of course, though it's not exactly ideal.

She'd have an absurdly easy time reaching 100% DS with Virion/Stahl!Yarne though, but that defeats the general purpose of those Yarnes and cripples their attack power.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

Quick question regarding Gaius!Kjelle. Aside from being able to hit 75 speed as a Wyvern Lord, does she have any other notable uses of the extra stats compared to Donnel!Kjelle? I'm trying to figure out if I want to give Gaius!Kjelle a shot in the future, I usually don't because Noire is one of my favorite characters in the game and I like having her be awesome.

I'm pretty sure I've got her in a set with Vaike!Yarne on my 100% DS team that has a 100% chance of being able to take out Wave 5's double Zerkers in only six hits with a single Rallybot and no procs, which means no Luna+ damage and is very difficult for non-Lucina/Vengeance pairs to pull off.

[Azz]

Okay so I was going over my remaining fathers(Virion,Kellam,Lon'qu) and was wondering if one of them was better for Nah.

I know Vaike is good but I also heard Kellam is quite good for a tanky Nah(I also like Nowi's and Kellam's supports).

Should I bother changing or just stay with what I have?

Edited January 27, 2015 by Azz01