Airship Canon Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Unrelated: Would Apo be possible without using any promoted classes (Manakete, Taguel, Dancer, Conqueror, Dread Fighter, Bride, and Lodestar count)? Used a Dancer, but... Olivia wasn't allowed into combat+was unarmed+No Skills outside Special Dance. She was practically necessary since mobility. Biggest difficulties were: 1. Dealing with Thronie-- He shuts down Unpromoted classes HARD. With the 65 HP cap, it takes a combination of 60 Speed and 70 DEF to reliably survive. Counter: More Archers. ..Particularly, I had Lucina and Lucina!Morgan launching Agg-boosted MU and Inigo at things. 2. Mobility-- Since Unpromoted have no Staff+Weapon classes, dual role isn't possible. Counter: There is none. Deal with it. 3. The 7 turn Timelimit on Wave 5. Counter: Pulling Anna and the Sorcs via chump damage with Mire. [sorcs come running, Anna will be primed and attack anyone in range after a mire] ...you really don't have problems killing things. What hurts is the 65 HP cap [Making living against Luna+ hard, render Vengeance as shoddy] and more particularly the lack of dual-role units. [spoiler=Just in case a static SS of the Anna kill isn't proof..] (Laurent vs. Soldier on Wave 4) (Morgan and Inigo killing an Invincisorc) (Burning down Nightmare Sniper clean through his 70 DEF) (Generic overview in Wave 4) Edited August 28, 2014 by Airship Canon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Woah, that's amazing that you were actually able to do it. Is there any challenge run you haven't done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoran Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Pairing options! I'm going to run Sniper Virion!Severa supported by Gerome, and the choice of father for Gerome affects Laurent x Kjelle. Option 1 Lon'qu!Gerome [Hero]: Swordfaire, Aggressor, All +2, Lancebreaker Virion!Severa [sniper]: Galeforce, Vengeance, All +2, Skill +2 This is a 100% DS, 100% Hit, 75+ Speed Sniper pair that will kill anything in the game from range 3 as long as Severa has 11 HP or less. That leaves me with Stahl!Laurent x Donnel!Kjelle, which can do a couple things. There's the standard Sage x Dark Flier deal with proc stacking. As an alternative, Laurent and Kjelle can just barely squeak out 100% DS with Laurent as a Sniper (with All +2 and Skill +2) and Kjelle as an Assassin (with All +2 and Defender). Option 2 Stahl!Gerome [sniper]: Bowfaire, Aggressor, All +2, Skill +2 Virion!Severa [sniper]: Galeforce, Vengeance, All +2, Deliverer This pair foregoes perfect Hit (Gerome has only 238) and the ability to kill Anna and the Nightmare Snipers in favor of mobility. It also offers a slightly better Sage x Dark Flier pair in Lon'qu!Laurent x Donnel!Kjelle, since Laurent gets more Magic and Skill. Any thoughts here? Spare fathers are Frederick and Kellam, neither of whom are great with Laurent or Gerome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheRage Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I have been wondering what does DS stand for ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Dual Strike. Did you see my post a couple pages ago when you asked who should be what class? It's pretty general because I would not feel comfortable actually telling you what to use, but you still might get some use out of it. Edited August 29, 2014 by isetrh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheRage Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 how are dreadfighters and the wife class [i forget the name] viewed as for Appo ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Sounds like you didn't read it if you're asking how Brides are... Bride is sometimes used if a girl is paired to a magic Galeboy and has Lancefaire or Bowfaire. Without either a husband who takes advantage of the pair up bonuses or a strategy that takes advantage of Staff access, there are better options. Dread Fighter has good pair up bonuses but pretty meh stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabeasty Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) From what I can tell, the big issue with Dread Fighter is that you would typically want to use them to have a magically inclined character give physical pair-up bonuses, the same way a Bride would work for magic bonuses. However, Dread Fighter has a slightly higher gap between its str/mag than bride does, leaving Dread Fighter more physically inclined and making their magic much weaker than using other magic classes. If you were to use them for physical with axes or swords you'd be better off going with other more physically inclined classes, and using them just for the physical pair-up bonus as a magical unit seems inefficient. At one point I was going to try using a Dread Fighter Gregor!Laurent to support a physical Noire, but then I realized I actually have some decent physical options (Berserker, Assassin, and Hero with sword/axefaire) with Gregor!Laurent. Gregor!Laurent's str is positive even, and his mag is only +3 so he can definitely go physical if needed. Correct me if I'm wrong but there doesn't seem to be any real reason to bother with Dread Fighter in that situation. Edited August 29, 2014 by Diabeasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) From what I can tell, the big issue with Dread Fighter is that you would typically want to use them to have a magically inclined character give physical pair-up bonuses, the same way a Bride would work for magic bonuses. However, Dread Fighter has a slightly higher gap between its str/mag than bride does, leaving Dread Fighter more physically inclined and making their magic much weaker than using other magic classes. If you were to use them for physical with axes or swords you'd be better off going with other more physically inclined classes, and using them just for the physical pair-up bonus as a magical unit seems inefficient. At one point I was going to try using a Dread Fighter Gregor!Laurent to support a physical Noire, but then I realized I actually have some decent physical options (Berserker, Assassin, and Hero with sword/axefaire) with Gregor!Laurent. Gregor!Laurent's str is positive even, and his mag is only +3 so he can definitely go physical if needed. Correct me if I'm wrong but there doesn't seem to be any real reason to bother with Dread Fighter in that situation. The thing is that dread fighter is one of ''very'' few male magic using classes that boost both magic and speed. In fact, the only other male option is tactician/grandmaster, and obviously not many can use that. So Dread Fighter is often extremely useful to boost female magic users' speed. Edited August 29, 2014 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The thing is that dread fighter is one of ''very'' few male magic using classes that boost both magic and speed. In fact, the only other male option is tactician/grandmaster, and obviously not many can use that. So Dread Fighter is often extremely useful to boost female magic users' speed. The female Magic user is likely a Sage, Dark Flier, or Valkyrie, so she will likely double most enemies already. If you really need her to hit 75 to double Anna and NS, then it's about your only option, but otherwise you're just losing 8 Mag and 3 Skill. Also if it's a Galeboy, he will have a much harder time hitting 75 Speed as a Dread Fighter with Dark Flier/Valkyrie support than he would as a Sage with Dark Flier/Valkyrie support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabeasty Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Dread Fighter is only 1 spd behind Sage actually, so the difference isn't TOO huge. But really you're missing out on a lot elsewhere just for that extra speed from the pair-up bonus. If it's the only way you can hit a threshold, I'd say it's a fair deal since you'll PROBABLY still murder everything anyway. Otherwise... doesn't really seem worth it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Dread Fighter is only 1 spd behind Sage actually, so the difference isn't TOO huge. But really you're missing out on a lot elsewhere just for that extra speed from the pair-up bonus. If it's the only way you can hit a threshold, I'd say it's a fair deal since you'll PROBABLY still murder everything anyway. Otherwise... doesn't really seem worth it to me. Whoops, I was thinking Dread Fighters had 40 Speed. Still, a lot of Owains and not+Speed!Brady as Sages with Dark Flier support and LB/GF/Agg/TF/proc have 53 Speed. Add Rallies, tonic, and Dark Flier pair-up and that's 73. If they have to reach 75 they can replace TF with AS+2, just reaching 75. If they're a Dread Fighter and have Paladin they could then replace something with Defender, losing either proc, Agg, or GF. Ouch. Works for +Speed!Brady, magic Inigo, or magic Morgan though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Dread Fighter is only 1 spd behind Sage actually, so the difference isn't TOO huge. But really you're missing out on a lot elsewhere just for that extra speed from the pair-up bonus. If it's the only way you can hit a threshold, I'd say it's a fair deal since you'll PROBABLY still murder everything anyway. Otherwise... doesn't really seem worth it to me. You're forgetting that the difference between +1 speed and +0 speed is actually THREE speed, because A and S ranks boost all boosted stats a further 2. So it adds three speed to the front unit, which can often break thresholds. Edit: OOPS! I totally misread your comment in context of Isetrh. But yeah, that's the dread fighter's primary utility as far as I know, that +3 speed.. Also the fact that if the dread fighter has decent strength too, then he now has the option to always attack the enemy's weakest defensive stat, and can also bypass either aegis or pavise whenever he wants. Edited August 30, 2014 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I think the main thing with Stahl!Gerome is that Stahl is in high demand. I edited my last post to mention physical Sumia!Lucina Not really. Off the top of my head, Inigo, Severa, and Laurent (Vantage) would be the only other kids that want him. He's the perfect physical dad. Grants Astra/Luna proc stack along with 2 faires that he can use across all of his classes along with great mods to boot. Stahl is a great father for a lot of kids, but I rarely see anyone recommend him as the best for anyone outside of Gerome. I don't know if this is just because Gerome is the best use of his genes, if it's because other children just want other fathers more than Stahl, or a combination of both. Or maybe I haven't looked hard enough, could be that too.Gerome is the best use of his genes by far. Cherche gives fuck all for inheritance and Stahl gives the guy everything he could possibly want: accuracy, procs, faires, complimentary mods, and classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Not really. Off the top of my head, Inigo, Severa, and Laurent (Vantage) would be the only other kids that want him. He's the perfect physical dad. Grants Astra/Luna proc stack along with 2 faires that he can use across all of his classes along with great mods to boot. Gerome is the best use of his genes by far. Cherche gives fuck all for inheritance and Stahl gives the guy everything he could possibly want: accuracy, procs, faires, complimentary mods, and classes. I thought Gerome and Yarne not needing procs was one of the reasons the "GF/L/DG+ on everything" metagame fell out of favor? Stahl!Gerome does sound good though. I'm guessing he would be a Bowfaire Warrior? Edited August 30, 2014 by isetrh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I thought Gerome and Yarne not needing procs was one of the reasons the "GF/L/DG+ on everything" metagame fell out of favor? Stahl!Gerome does sound good though. I'm guessing he would be a Bowfaire Warrior? Stahl!Gerome is seen as best Gerome because it exchanges a small bit of power from Vaike!Gerome for infinitley better accuracy. Bowfaire Warrior is normally what is run, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Maybe I should go with StahlVirion!Gerome. Main issue is that without a Berserker husband Severa loses the ability to double NS. How big of a deal is this? Edit: Since what Gerome gets out of Stahl is basically Archer, and Virion is spare, that would work better for my team as a whole. Edited August 30, 2014 by isetrh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabeasty Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) I gave Virion to Yarne personally. Gerome needs a little more love because he's pretty lackluster by default at least IMO. Yarne makes a good berserker, so I'm just going to marry him to Severa instead of Gerome. Edited August 30, 2014 by Diabeasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I gave Virion to Yarne personally. Gerome needs a little more love because he's pretty lackluster by default at least IMO. Yarne makes a good berserker, so I'm just going to marry him to Severa instead of Gerome. What I'm doing with Yarne is Assassin Gregor!Yarne x Sniper +Skill FeMU. Just reaches 100% DS with AS+2 on both, and the resulting Morgan gives Noire 100% DS and 75 Speed as another Sniper x Assassin pair. I'm glad you guys got me thinking about Gerome's dad, because if Severa forgoes Wyvern Lord I think they can get 100% DS. Need to check my math first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabeasty Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Stahl!Gerome has both Assassin and Sniper, so you probably can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I found a way. Lon'qu!Severa @ Assassin LB/GF/Swordfaire/Vengeance/Deliverer Virion!Gerome @ Sniper LB/Agg/Bowfaire/AS+2/Skill+2 Speed: 46 +6(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rallies) +2(tonic) +3(pair up) =77 Skill: 76(Severa: 48 +6(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rallies) +2(tonic)) +76(Gerome: 48 +2(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rallies) +2(tonic) +2(AS+2) +2(Skill+2)) +8(pair up) =160 How is it? Any changes or suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabeasty Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 You could do the same with Stahl, as Virion!Gerome only has 1 skl over Stahl!Gerome (give Severa AS+2), but it's up to you to decide if the 2 extra STR and added versatility that Stahl gives is worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Thanks, I might do that depending on what Inigo ends up doing. Severa dropping Swordfaire for As+2 would mean 3 less Strength in the front. With 2 more in the back that's only 1 more damage total. Stahl!Inigo (married to Donnel!Kjelle) might be a Warrior. Having a Speed pair up or not determines whether or not he can double the Berserkers. He could possibly use Axefaire insteas of Bowfaire considering I have a lot of Bows and no Axes yet. Kjelle will probably be a Paladin. With All+2 and pair up bonuses, both she and Inigo reach 69 Speed. Alternatively I could make Inigo a Berserker for a speedier option, letting Kjelle do Wyvern Lord and reach 69 Speed without needing AS+2. If I were to make him a Berserker, he could take Henry instead of Stahl for Vengeance since Luna's activation rate is low. Brady would switch to Ricken instead of Henry. Gerome could take Stahl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabeasty Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) If you used AS+2 on an assassin you could use both bows and swords equally effectively, so that's something to consider. Stahl/Chrom!Inigo is interesting, he has quite a few options available to him. I always used Inigo as an assassin, but with either as a father he could go with pretty much whatever you want. Edited August 30, 2014 by Diabeasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) I thought Gerome and Yarne not needing procs was one of the reasons the "GF/L/DG+ on everything" metagame fell out of favor? Stahl!Gerome does sound good though. I'm guessing he would be a Bowfaire Warrior? Stahl was exclusive on Severa during that meta. [Part of why that was... focused] ...Frederick!Gerome [who is laughably bad in terms of doing what he's good at compared to others] is who was used. Often times you'd see Kellam!Yarne alongside him. Why, gotta have luna. ...This was the G/D/L Meta [basically]: Chrom/Olivia MaMU/Nowi Lissa/Ricken Sully/Donnel Miriel/Gregor Sumia/Henry Maribelle/Lon'Qu Panne/Kellam Cordelia/Stahl Tharja/Gaius Cherche/Frederick ..And that's basically it. EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER WORSHIPPED THAT PAIRING SET AS THOUGH IT WAS GOD. Edited August 30, 2014 by Airship Canon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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