Pokemon X/Y General Thread

[Chiki]

Wtf, they made Defog really overpowered.

I wonder if one could use Baton Pass + Substitute support with Dragon Dance Mega Charizard X. That would be awesome.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Chiki

[Redwall]

I like the new Defog a lot since it prevents hyper-offense teams with suicidal entry-hazard setters from dominating. Taunt Gliscor and Tornadus-T completely shut it down, though, giving a reason to continue using Rapid Spin.

[Chiki]

If I get back into competitive Pokemon during the winter I'll probably make a team with Dual Screen Klefki or Deoxys-S / Tornadus-T / Scizor / Substitute sweeper. Sounds pretty formidable. I got to the top of the ladder with a similar fourth gen team a few years ago.

Lol I'm gonna make a team now. I feel like playing Showdown for a bit.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Chiki

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

how long until deoxys forme got hit? lol

probably never?

[Chiki]

Deoxys-S in gen 4? It got banned. But you can use Azelf instead.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I know that all of them are banned in Gen 4 and Gen 5(which is hilarious because people used to say that Deoxys D and Deoxys S is terrible because Whimsicott and Magic Bounce/Magic Coat exist)

I wonder how much things will change with Gen 6 Defog

[dondon151]

I'd rather use CB Scizor over Mega Scizor if I wanted to have a good U-turn user for synergy with Regenerator. CB Scizor has 195 base attack while Mega Scizor has 150.

that's not how stat multipliers work

CB scizor effectively has even higher attack because stat multipliers also multiply additional stat points from EVs. a huge power pokemon with 55 base atk has much more atk than a normal pokemon with 110 base atk.

[Chiki]

Holy shit Mega Kangaskhan with Substitute is scary.. I guess I found my Substitute user.

[Fruity Insanity]

Holy shit Mega Kangaskhan with Substitute is scary.. I guess I found my Substitute user.

So...

Power Up Punch

Sucker Punch

Fake Out

Substitute?

[Ether]

You definitely want return, if you're using Sub, ditch Fake Out.

[Redwall]

Return / Fire Punch / Power-Up Punch / Sucker Punch is the most dangerous imo. A lot of people run Earthquake for some reason, but Power-Up Punch hits Tyranitar and Heatran just fine.

[Ether]

Earthquake is for Aegislash, iirc.

[Redwall]

Unboosted Fire Punch hits Aegislash just fine on the switch. I don't think it's worth giving up SE damage on Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory when King's Shield Aegislash is so easy to deal with for balanced and bulky-offensive teams.

[Ether]

Well, presumably people will switch to Fire Punch once Pokemon bank comes out and it actually exists.

[Chiki]

Substitute > Fire Punch. By not mega-evolving Kangaskhan can deal with Aegislash. Scrappy bypasses ghost types. Substitute deals with CB Scizor.

Ignore this post Fire Punch is better.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Chiki

[Alfred Kamon]

Return / Fire Punch / Power-Up Punch / Sucker Punch is the most dangerous imo. A lot of people run Earthquake for some reason, but Power-Up Punch hits Tyranitar and Heatran just fine.

Yes for Tyranitar, but most Heatran with some PS EVs can resist those punches and 2HKO Mega Kanghaskan easily.

Earthquake is for Aegislash, iirc.

I find it funny how my Air Baloon Aegislash counters that completely. The only viable move would be Sucker Punch then, that I can just stall for by using Swords Dance.

Substitute > Fire Punch. By not mega-evolving Kangaskhan can deal with Aegislash. Scrappy bypasses ghost types. Substitute deals with CB Scizor.

Ignore this post Fire Punch is better.

reply to bold: no it can't. Kangaskhan in its normal form can't compete with Aegislash unless, maybe, with Earthquake. Max atk normal Kangaskhan with Fire punch does 100-120 damage to a 0 EVs neutral nature in def Aegislash in its defense stance. Not to mention that it makes contact and can be countered by King's Shield (same as Scrappy Power-up Punch).

So basically every Aegislash even without EVs in def get 3-4HKOed by a normal Kangaskhan with max atk, but that esteem is kinda simplistic since every Aegislash has King's Shield and won't hesitate to use it. You get more than enough turns to use a Swords dance and 1HKO it.

I think the only Kangaskhan who can compete with Aegislash is one running Earthquake. Which anyway gets obliterated by one holding Air Baloon.

That's why most Kangaskhans in WiFi now run Crunch instead of Sucker Punch. Or Rock Slide. Having twice the possibility to lower def/flinching is quite good too.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Alfred Kamon

[Redwall]

Yes for Tyranitar, but most Heatran with some PS EVs can resist those punches and 2HKO Mega Kanghaskan easily.

252 HP / 0 Def Heatran takes a minimum of 34.71% from 252+ Atk Mega Kanga's Power-Up Punch. The next round of Power-Up Punches double in strength to finish Heatran, who gets outsped without a Scarf.

I find it funny how my Air Baloon Aegislash counters that completely. The only viable move would be Sucker Punch then, that I can just stall for by using Swords Dance.

reply to bold: no it can't. Kangaskhan in its normal form can't compete with Aegislash unless, maybe, with Earthquake. Max atk normal Kangaskhan with Fire punch does 100-120 damage to a 0 EVs neutral nature in def Aegislash in its defense stance. Not to mention that it makes contact and can be countered by King's Shield (same as Scrappy Power-up Punch).

So basically every Aegislash even without EVs in def get 3-4HKOed by a normal Kangaskhan with max atk, but that esteem is kinda simplistic since every Aegislash has King's Shield and won't hesitate to use it. You get more than enough turns to use a Swords dance and 1HKO it.

I think the only Kangaskhan who can compete with Aegislash is one running Earthquake. Which anyway gets obliterated by one holding Air Baloon.

That's why most Kangaskhans in WiFi now run Crunch instead of Sucker Punch. Or Rock Slide. Having twice the possibility to lower def/flinching is quite good too.

Its lack of Speed and reliance on a 40-BP STAB makes Stance Dance Aegislash walled far too easily by defensive Gyarados, Gliscor (who can pop any Balloons with Ice Fang), and Landorus-T. Aegislash's best uses are as a defensive pivot; mixed wallbreaker with Shadow Ball and Sacred Sword; and/or spinblocker with King's Shield, which stops Pursuit attempts from Scarftar and CB Scizor cold.

Giving Aegislash an Air Balloon cuts its longevity as a pivot since you're without Leftovers recovery, and Aegislash doesn't have the Speed to take full advantage of the Air Balloon anyway. King's Shield basically gives your opponent a free turn in many cases outside of scouting Choiced Pokemon; adequately prepared players won't hesitate to switch immediately to Landorus-T or Gyarados on either a Swords Dance or King's Shield, to tank +1 Shadow Sneak with no problem. I prefer using Shadow Ball / Sacred Sword / Shadow Sneak / either King's Shield or Iron Head in the final slot.

Sucker Punch is a must-have on Kangaskhan since it lets you nuke faster Pokemon like Choice Scarf Genesect after a PUP boost.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Miikaya

[dondon151]

does anyone think it's worth running mega kanga without PUP?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I actually think about using it since PUP did not give extra coverage

Theoritically speaking, Kanga attack power is a bit higher than Choice Band Gyarados.

I think it worth it, with some spikes to hit some ko thereshold

[Chiki]

Mega Kanga can use Drain Punch but it's not worth it when compared to PuP.

I've been using Dual Screen Deoxys-S + Sub SD Landorus-T with success. People don't know what to do against it.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Chiki

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Incoming Deoxys complains and ban sooner or later LOLOL

[Alfred Kamon]

252 HP / 0 Def Heatran takes a minimum of 34.71% from 252+ Atk Mega Kanga's Power-Up Punch. The next round of Power-Up Punches double in strength to finish Heatran, who gets outsped without a Scarf.

Its lack of Speed and reliance on a 40-BP STAB makes Stance Dance Aegislash walled far too easily by defensive Gyarados, Gliscor (who can pop any Balloons with Ice Fang), and Landorus-T. Aegislash's best uses are as a defensive pivot; mixed wallbreaker with Shadow Ball and Sacred Sword; and/or spinblocker with King's Shield, which stops Pursuit attempts from Scarftar and CB Scizor cold.

Giving Aegislash an Air Balloon cuts its longevity as a pivot since you're without Leftovers recovery, and Aegislash doesn't have the Speed to take full advantage of the Air Balloon anyway. King's Shield basically gives your opponent a free turn in many cases outside of scouting Choiced Pokemon; adequately prepared players won't hesitate to switch immediately to Landorus-T or Gyarados on either a Swords Dance or King's Shield, to tank +1 Shadow Sneak with no problem. I prefer using Shadow Ball / Sacred Sword / Shadow Sneak / either King's Shield or Iron Head in the final slot.

Sucker Punch is a must-have on Kangaskhan since it lets you nuke faster Pokemon like Choice Scarf Genesect after a PUP boost.

I was a bit wrong about Heatran (still is a valid point with some Def EVs anyway) but I really don't get what's all the rest about. We were discussing a Mega Kanghaskan vs. Aegislash scenario where someone said that even a normal Kangaskhan with Scrappy could deal with it. I clearly said it can't, and that Air Baloon Aegislash pretty much walls M-Kangaskhan completely. If you throw in any pokémon you want in the reasoning which is the point? :\

Also, most Gliscor run a Earthquake/Toxic/Protect/Substitute set which gets walled completely. I usually prefer Iron Head over Sacred Sword, so that it can deal with other kinds of Gliscor or even Landorus. Switch in when I use Sword Dance, then I just use another Sword dance when you try to break my baloon, and therefore I can KO them with Iron Head + Shadow Sneak (since defense stance Aegislash will most likely survive an Earthquake from Gliscor or Terrakion, with some EVs in HP and Def).

Ah, I run WiFi sets where you must consider a 3vs3 scenario and Item Clause on, so obviously Leftovers is saved for something better too.

And I usually like to use this Aegislash with some backup from a double screen Klefki. Works pretty fine I should say.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Alfred Kamon

[Sasori]

Does anyone has some advice on how I should use my Absol. Its my favourite in my team, but his performance has been a little unreliable.

Mega Absol is quite fast and hits hard, but generally not enough to one shot Mons that its not super effective to. It also has the defense of a wet towel which gets him killed instantly a lot of the time. Sword dancing to boost his attack even further sounds pretty dangerous with his crappy defences so I gave up on that idea. So my idea now is to have him hit as many types for super effective damage as possible

I also have some problem thinking up on a moveset for him. He learns many moves, but there are only 4 slots and i'm not entirely what to pick. He learns a lot of dark moves that are handy to use, but I have to think about coverage as well. Sucker punch is great for priority, but only has 5 uses and is useless when people switch their mons, pursuit is good for ensuring a kill on things weak to dark, but is low powered otherwise and dark slash is the most reliable dark move for consistent damage, but doesn't have an nice extra effect like the other two moves. All 3 moves are good, but having 3 dark moves isn't a very good idea.

He learns a lot of coverage moves as well and now that he has a mega form he can actually use some special attacks like flamethrower or fire blast. I'm also wondering if I should breed an Absol to give him a strong attack like play rough or mega horn. Mega horn is the stronger attack, but play rough seems like the better idea for hitting fighting and dragon instead of Grass and psychic. Both hit dark types which is rather nice.

[Redwall]

I was a bit wrong about Heatran (still is a valid point with some Def EVs anyway) but I really don't get what's all the rest about. We were discussing a Mega Kanghaskan vs. Aegislash scenario where someone said that even a normal Kangaskhan with Scrappy could deal with it. I clearly said it can't, and that Air Baloon Aegislash pretty much walls M-Kangaskhan completely. If you throw in any pokémon you want in the reasoning which is the point? :\

Also, most Gliscor run a Earthquake/Toxic/Protect/Substitute set which gets walled completely. I usually prefer Iron Head over Sacred Sword, so that it can deal with other kinds of Gliscor or even Landorus. Switch in when I use Sword Dance, then I just use another Sword dance when you try to break my baloon, and therefore I can KO them with Iron Head + Shadow Sneak (since defense stance Aegislash will most likely survive an Earthquake from Gliscor or Terrakion, with some EVs in HP and Def).

Ah, I run WiFi sets where you must consider a 3vs3 scenario and Item Clause on, so obviously Leftovers is saved for something better too.

And I usually like to use this Aegislash with some backup from a double screen Klefki. Works pretty fine I should say.

Oh, I was assuming 6v6 without Item Clause. Either way, Air Balloon Aegislash only walls a Fire-Punch-less Kangaskhan if the latter transformed beforehand. A Scrappy PUP pops the Balloon if Aegislash switches in, obviating the need for the EQ user to pop it. As you point out, 252+ Atk Aegislash needs more than one Swords Dance to KO with Iron Head 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T after accounting for Intimidate, but it will only have time for one if Kangaskhan pops the balloon. The combination of PUP from a Jolly Kangaskhan and Earthquake from a 0 Atk Landorus-T deals a minimum of 94% to a 252 HP / 0 Def Shield Aegislash, which is enough to KO after Stealth Rock. The consequence is that Aegislash with an Air Balloon is, at best, a Kangaskhan check, one with very little coverage if its only two attacking moves are Iron Head and Shadow Sneak.

[dondon151]

Does anyone has some advice on how I should use my Absol. Its my favourite in my team, but his performance has been a little unreliable.

sucker punch is pretty much mandatory on absol

megahorn is rather redundant coverage since absol could run either superpower (though i guess you can't superpower yet) or play rough to hit dark types SE. if you want to run 3 attacks, sucker punch, play rough, and fire blast make for decent coverage, and then the 4th slot can be swords dance, protect, sub, or pursuit. you could also run night slash over sucker punch but that sounds like kind of a waste.

another option is to run SD, baton pass, STAB, and coverage move.