Redwall Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I would be surprised if Mega Latias got banned. Mega Latias can be a useful Defogger and occasional win condition with Defog / Roost / Calm Mind / Fairy STAB, but leaving off Refresh and Substitute makes it hard to sweep, and Fairy STAB won't do much to Heatran and Scizor anyway. While there are probably better movesets, Mega Latias will still be stuck with only 110 base SpA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Mega Latias has the best defensive typing in the game, doesn't she? And I wouldn't use Defog on her, because it's a waste when I can use Sub + Roost + Multiscale. That's scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Isn't Steel/Fairy better than Dragon/Fairy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djing Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) That Mega Latios looks way too ridiculous. It's STAB Psyshock is comparible to Mewtwo's Psystrike with Dragon STAB attached to it. Edited November 22, 2013 by Spaceman Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I guess it's debatable which one is better. But I find the Sub CM set uber material. We'll see if it is once it comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Dragon Fairy has so many issues against Steel though, since neither STAB do effective damage and it gets hit for super effective damage. Wouldn't count on Mega Latias to run Hidden Power Fire on a defensive set. Also I'm curious as to see how often Infiltrator is going to pop up to spam Toxic on defensive Substitute users such as this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Mega Latias has the best defensive typing in the game, doesn't she? And I wouldn't use Defog on her, because it's a waste when I can use Sub + Roost + Multiscale. That's scary. Assuming Sub / Roost / CM / Fairy STAB, I don't think CM boosts her SpA quickly enough to seriously threaten Ferrothorn, Aegislash, Scizor, or Jirachi, all reasonably common Pokes with good bulk and viable Steel moves. I guess we shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) The only two pokemon who often use steel type moves in the OU metagame are Scizor and Lucario as far as I can remember. Needing Scizor/Lucario on every team because of Mega Latias is a sign that Mega Latias is uber. Edited November 22, 2013 by Chiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I don't know how to access usage statistics, but on top of the Latias-beating uses, Ferrothorn and Forretress can use Gyro Ball to hit Gengar and Dragons; Jirachi can use Iron Head for general Serene Grace hax; the actually-threatening versions of Aegislash run Iron Head (I don't think the Stance Dance set that many ladder players run is any good). I guess there's also Scarf Genesect with Iron Head, but that may get banned at some point. These guys and Scizor / Lucario are all fairly useful Pokes in general, and many of them fit in a wide variety of teams, so I wouldn't consider Mega Latias overcentralizing for this reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Calcs 130 = 359 180 = 459 Aprox 28% boost Am I seeing things here? Most Mega EVO are stuck at 20% boost, yet this one gets basically an LO boost? Also Latios Psyshock and Dragon pulse is a 107 effective BP pre STAB, Draco Meteor is 176 BP pre STAB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/official-smogon-university-gen-vi-simulator-statistics-%E2%80%94-october-2013.3491683/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/6358025/ Only 25% of Aegislash use Iron Head. Only 45% of Ferrothorn use Gyro Ball. Only 30% of Forretress use Gyro Ball. Edited November 22, 2013 by Chiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Ferrothorn: Gyro Ball is also the fourth-highest move. I'm not sure what kinds of sets are good for it, aside from the fact that I think it rocks (and thought it was awesomesauce ever since I saw it in B/W). However, if those stats mean anything, that means that it's not something that Mega Latias should ignore. If said Latias becomes popular, I'd expect Gyro Ball's popularity to rise. Alakazam: Top move: Shadow Ball. It's definitely not a OHKO, but it'll smart. How popular is Drapion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/official-smogon-university-gen-vi-simulator-statistics-%E2%80%94-october-2013.3491683/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/6358025/ Only 25% of Aegislash use Iron Head. Only 45% of Ferrothorn use Gyro Ball. Only 30% of Forretress use Gyro Ball. Those stats were collected over the first eight days of play, so it wouldn't surprise me if the trends have changed. I was initially going to use the word "often" in describing the uses of the moves I suggested, which is why I mentioned usage statistics previously, but it was a mistake on my part to mention usage statistics at all in this context; you and I both know that the popularity of a move doesn't necessarily have anything to do with its efficacy. Gyro Ball's uses beyond Latias-sniping should be clear: you can catch Outrages from Garchomp and Dragonite and deal a reasonable chunk of damage; you can nail Gengar and score SE damage on Kyurem-B and Tyranitar. Making Forretress the designated Stealth Rock user is a terrible idea since it receives very few opportunities to switch in compared to guys like Hippowdon and Heatran; for this reason, HP Ice and Toxic Spikes are the only moves that compete seriously with Gyro Ball on Forretress. Demonstrating that Mega Latias isn't overcentralizing does not require Gyro Ball to be, in general, much better than these alternatives; it need only have non-trivial uses outside of hitting Mega Latias. Similar arguments for Ferrothorn, and although it makes a good SR user, SR is so ubiquitous in Pokebank OU that it's worth considering having it on another Pokemon. And although it is uncommon, 252 Atk / 252+ SAtk Aegislash with a Life Orb and Shadow Ball / Sacred Sword / Iron Head / Shadow Sneak can punch holes in most teams that don't have a physically defensive Mandibuzz; eschewing King's Shield means Aegislash risks getting snared by Pursuit, but without having seen its whole moveset, players are likely to be hesitant to bring in Scarf Tyranitar and CB Scizor due to the threat of King's Shield cutting their Atk in half and effectively forcing a switch. Considering that you should have a Steel-type Pokemon on your team anyway, it is not a huge stretch (imo) to demand a physical Steel-type move. Mega Latias' susceptibility to Ground-type moves and loss of Leftovers recovery hurt it a bit as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I think I've hatched some 500-600 Gastly now... Still no shiny... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 The popularity of a move has everything to do with naming Mega Latias über, though. Giving Latias HP Fire instead of Sub could solve her problem with Ferrothorn, Forretress, Aegislash (not many use steel moves on him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I'm positive that move sets evolve depending on the meta. Right now, it looks Latias friendly. I'm sure that will change once she's introduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djing Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Porygon-Z is now Normal/Ghost. If that actually happened, I would shit bricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 The popularity of a move has everything to do with naming Mega Latias über, though. Not necessarily. Perceptions of the efficacy of a certain move held by the tiering contributors obviously matter more, and in general can differ, from the perceptions held by the playerbase at large. Also, if (say) Gyro Ball on Forretress remained useful enough to seriously consider even in Mega Latias' absence, this bit would likely not be considered overcentralization. Giving Latias HP Fire instead of Sub could solve her problem with Ferrothorn, Forretress, Aegislash (not many use steel moves on him). Yes, but eschewing Sub obviously limits your sweeping potential. Since Latias only has base 110 SpA and about 80-120 SpA EVs (252 HP / 80 SpA / 176+ Spd beats positive-natured base 100s and base 130s when untransformed and transformed, respectively), the opponent won't face much offensive pressure from ML and can scout its moveset without much trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 i would also take usage stats with a grain of salt because 1. the metagame is very new 2. there are a lot of bad players on the ladder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Porygon-Z is now Normal/Ghost. If that actually happened, I would shit bricks. HOLY SHIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) Not necessarily. Perceptions of the efficacy of a certain move held by the tiering contributors obviously matter more, and in general can differ, from the perceptions held by the playerbase at large. Also, if (say) Gyro Ball on Forretress remained useful enough to seriously consider even in Mega Latias' absence, this bit would likely not be considered overcentralization. It's surprisingly easy to contribute--all you have to do is get a certain amount of points in the ladder (I think enough points to be in the top 500). So a lot of people can vote; I don't think it's gonna differ very much. Furthermore, the people who ladder the most--and get up to the top 500 the most--are the ones who influence the usage statistics the most, since they battle so much. Even if the top 500 plays very differently from the rest, I've personally never liked Gyro Ball on Ferrothorn or Forretress. Thunder Wave allows Ferrothorn to spread status whereas HP Ice allows Forretress to hit things like Landorus and Gliscor harder. Further, Sacred Sword + Shadow Sneak is perfect coverage. I don't think Iron Head is that much better than Sacred Sword. I just forgot to mention this, but it's very important: it's also worth noting that Latias has Multi Scale to easily stall out Gyro Ball's 8 PP with Sub + Roost. So pretty much the only problems for Latias are Scizor, Lucario, Jirachi with Iron Head and Aegislash with Iron Head. Edited November 23, 2013 by Chiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaSaint Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Eevee - #133 (Timid) Female (♀) Anticipation: 31 / 16 / 31 / 30 / 31 / 28 Still debating internally if this was more or less traumatizing than the 27/x/28/29/30/31 Milotic I bred in Gen IV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Furthermore, the people who ladder the most--and get up to the top 500 the most--are the ones who influence the usage statistics the most, since they battle so much. It wouldn't surprise me if each alt in the top 500 played more games on average than the average alt, but since they represent probably like 10% of the alts on there (going by the 88.9 GXE of the rank-500 player on Pokebank OU), they would really have to play like crazy--like, for the number of games played by the top 500 and the other alts to be roughly equal, the top 500 alts would have to combine to play ten times as many matches as the other alts if the 10% figure is accurate. Even if the top 500 plays very differently from the rest, I've personally never liked Gyro Ball on Ferrothorn or Forretress. Thunder Wave allows Ferrothorn to spread status whereas HP Ice allows Forretress to hit things like Landorus and Gliscor harder. OK, but that simply means Thunder Wave or HP Ice suits some teams better than others, not that it's always better than Gyro Ball. Further, Sacred Sword + Shadow Sneak is perfect coverage. I don't think Iron Head is that much better than Sacred Sword. Aegislash with Sacred Sword and Shadow Sneak as its only two attacking moves gets walled far too easily in spite of technically having good type coverage; for this reason, I like having Shadow Ball in addition to these moves. Also, having Iron Head doesn't preclude having Sacred Sword. I just forgot to mention this, but it's very important: it's also worth noting that Latias has Multi Scale to easily stall out Gyro Ball's 8 PP with Sub + Roost. My mistake. I ran the calculations--somehow I previously assumed Gyro Ball would do enough to beat Multiscale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Porygon-Z is now Normal/Ghost. If that actually happened, I would shit bricks. Okay this is fake, I'm sad >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Devil Trigger Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) Anyone can tell me what moves will a Klefki have in hordes? EDIT: Never mind, don't need this anymore. Edited November 23, 2013 by Darkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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