link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[PKL]

Wait...I might need to redo that. Didn't take into account Guard. NOOBIE MISTAKE

EDIT: Cancel, not Guard ugh. I'm allowed mistakes the first time right? Right?

Edited December 11, 2013 by PKL

[PKL]

Very productive first move >_>. Guard OP

[Espinosa]

The reward would've been big if I had connected and Luna proc'd. Oh well.

[PKL]

The reward would've been big if I had connected and Luna proc'd. Oh well.

Yeah. Brom's hit was pretty bad though.

[Elieson]

58 isn't /that/ bad

[Espinosa]

Yeah. Brom's hit was pretty bad though.

Didn't really have a much better alternative. Forged something is a lot more reliable but brave attacks provide additional skill proc chances and I thought that since I probably have my only chance to attack Tibarn untransformed, I might as well try my luck. Bows are ineffective against untransformed Tibarn/Naesala too, so it's either a Laguzslayer (not too effective w/o a 3x Mt bonus) of some sort of a regular weapon.

And I guess you can call Cancel activations whatever you want. I think I would say "Tibarn activates Cancel" and do the same for every other skill. The more consistent you are with wording the less time you spend botting (and the more you can copy n paste sometimes).

Edited December 11, 2013 by Espinosa

[PKL]

Hmm...yeah. I'll keep that copy paste thing in mind.

[dondon151]

Royals have so many cons, it's not even funny:

- lack of offensive skills

not really a huge deal considering that most offensive skills in this game kind of blow, plus fishing for skill activations is less reliable than relying on pure damage output.

- no possibility of HP restoration (Tibarn can get RNG blessed with Cancel procs though)

this is like, no one outside paladins and ike. sword users don't run runesword, and if they do, it hasn't ever done anything. renewal ena is not viable because she gets wrecked by giffca.

- offence is not significantly, if at all, higher than that of Beorc units

okay now this is just false. giffca has largo-level atk and much higher spd and def. naesala's atk is much worse, but he also doubles everything. you're probably going by a different standard of "significantly higher," but royals are clearly just better.

- lack of braves, and besides armours Tibarn/Giffca don't double any units of note. Naesala doubles everything but has damage output comparable to, like, Mia.

giffca doesn't double any units of note precisely because he makes units with 25 or fewer speed unviable, lol. you're forced to slap a laguzguard on those units (and they still take a lot of damage) just to avoid getting murdered.

- since you must get your turn for your royal to transform if not equipped with the Demi Band (starting with Full Guard), getting a 2nd turn leaves you vulnerable to being whacked on the opponent's first turn (bows and tomes aren't effective but laguzslaying weapons are), and you want to run Shinon if you want to avoid it all costs.

- Full Guard royals are forced to take a turn (when it might not be beneficial for them to attack instead of anyone else still alive) to equip the Demi Band and, when that is done, they become 3x weak to laguzslaying weapons, tomes and (for bird royals) bows.

this is just a result of bad mechanics. i've been lobbying to get this changed because it results in a clear first-player advantage, but no one seems to care that second-player gets totally shafted by the transformation mechanics.

- any Beorc unit you choose to attack could happen to have one of the two Laguzguards, halving the damage dealt.

this is the only reason why i wouldn't run all three laguz royals on the same team.

Edited December 11, 2013 by dondon151

[Espinosa]

not really a huge deal considering that most offensive skills in this game kind of blow, plus fishing for skill activations is less reliable than relying on pure damage output.

True, but if Ike doubles something with a Brave Sword it's hard for him not to proc Aether. If not doubling, he still has an almost 50% chance to proc Aether, which gives him more hits and chances of more damage/HP restoration. Play against Elieson and then we'll see if attacks with Silver weapons will be the only ones you will use.

this is like, no one outside paladins and ike. sword users don't run runesword, and if they do, it hasn't ever done anything. renewal ena is not viable because she gets wrecked by giffca.

Ike and Paladins can still form most of your team, which is what Dio did in his game with Ice Sage.

okay now this is just false. giffca has largo-level atk and much higher spd and def. naesala's atk is much worse, but he also doubles everything. you're probably going by a different standard of "significantly higher," but royals are clearly just better.

Bulk is a major thing but Giffca only doubles the Generals, Kieran and Nasir (and they can take a couple rounds against him, or could even run a Laguzguard) from units of note, and Laguzguards could appear on any unit you try to attack until you figure out where it is absent.

giffca doesn't double any units of note precisely because he makes units with 25 or fewer speed unviable, lol. you're forced to slap a laguzguard on those units (and they still take a lot of damage) just to avoid getting murdered.

That's true, Giffca is pretty scary. The 25 AS people are just Kieran, Jill, Ena, Soren and Muarim, and all five aren't exactly viable even if Giffca were to vanish into thin air. 24 AS people are all afraid of Ike and Tibarn, not only Giffca.

this is just a result of bad mechanics. i've been lobbying to get this changed because it results in a clear first-player advantage, but no one seems to care that second-player gets totally shafted by the transformation mechanics.

The transformation gauge mechanics are up for discussion.

this is the only reason why i wouldn't run all three laguz royals on the same team.

It's the biggest reason, yeah.

[Hawkeye]

Ilyana rexbolts brom
(rexbolt gives +3 skill btw)


sorry for delaying things. i got called into work unexpectedly and then i had to fight with my computer for half an hour before it would turn on

also, this was brought up earlier, siege tomes cannot be countered, even by other siege tomes

and i agree with dondon about transformation mechanics being skewed. i think all laguz with bands or starting gauges of 16 should transform at the start of the match, regardless of whose turn it is. it doesn't match the actual game, but it makes things more balanced

Edited December 11, 2013 by Hawkeye

[PKL]

I hate laguz. How much gauge does Tibarn start with?

[Elieson]

16

[PKL]

[spoiler=see teams here]

Espinosa's Team:



vs

Hawkeye's Team:

Turn 2

vs

Hawkeye's Tibarn transforms!

Hawkeye's Ilyana (Rexbolt) attacks Espinosa's Brom (Brave Lance)!

28 dmg 100% hit 15% crit 27% skill

(23 22 85 89)

Brom takes 28 damage!

Both sides survive the fight!

Stats:

Espinosa

Ike 52/52

Oscar 49/49

Makalov 51/51

Brom 27/55

Tibarn 66/66

Hawkeye

Tibarn 66/66 (20/20)

Ike 52/52

Gatrie 59/59

Ilyana 39/39

Oscar 49/49

Espinosa acts next!

Edited December 11, 2013 by PKL

[Espinosa]

sorry for delaying things. i got called into work unexpectedly and then i had to fight with my computer for half an hour before it would turn on

also, this was brought up earlier, siege tomes cannot be countered, even by other siege tomes

and i agree with dondon about transformation mechanics being skewed. i think all laguz with bands or starting gauges of 16 should transform at the start of the match, regardless of whose turn it is. it doesn't match the actual game, but it makes things more balanced

Hope the computer issues don't come back to haunt you, since that could get in the way of more important things than the PoR link arena.

Good to know about the siege tomes (could be relevant info for Ilyana vs Ilyana endgames).

The only good thing about the current Laguz transformation methods with Full Guard/Beorcguard (should be a thing with 3x effective weapons) is that it makes Shinon more desirable (which to me is a good thing because the game shouldn't be just about exchanging attacks, but balance is an important thing nevertheless).

The first turn is generally risky though, not just for the royals. Glass cannons could be picked on, Ilyana could be either immediately killed or weaken Nasir/Lucia (w/o Shinon in the same party) and Shinon is another variable in the mix. If Shinon's team goes first, he could have 2 or more chances to proc sleep with the Brave Bow. If not, probably just 1.

One idea I have in mind right now, to make the first turn less decisive for the game, is to have both players relegate one unit who will be taking the first attack. This pretty much makes Provoke useless, though.

[PKL]

Brom gets owned by Ilyana holy shiet. Espi move I only have 30 mins left you noob.

[Espinosa]

Brom Brave Lances Gatrie.

[Elieson]

Call me noob but why didn't brom counter? Does shade prevent counters in this environment?

[Hawkeye]

you attack at uncounterable range if possible

[Elieson]

Bah, got caught thinking fe7 mechanics

[Espinosa]

Call me noob but why didn't brom counter? Does shade prevent counters in this environment?

We started doing things differently from GBA arena, so 1-range doesn't counter 1-2 range, 1-2 range doesn't counter 2-3 range and so on. Players get to pick their range if there's an option, usually it's obvious (e.g. we know that Hawkeye saw that Brom equipped a Brave Lance), sometimes preferrable to attack at point-blank range, for example if Ike wants to try his luck at proccing Aether while still continuing to wield the Ragnell. It's still worth thinking if switching to GBA counterattack mechanics is the way to go (no idea how sieging functions in GBA arena, if at all) and we could come back to this.

[PKL]

[spoiler=see teams here]

Espinosa's Team:



vs

Hawkeye's Team:

Turn 3

vs

Espinosa's Brom (Brave Lance) attacks Hawkeye's Gatrie (Vague Katti)!

3x2 dmg 100% hit 0% crit 27% skill

(3 28 22 96)

Gatrie receives 3 damage!

(67 75 61 43)

Gatrie receives 3 damage!

Gatrie counters!

8 dmg 100% hit 37% crit 25% skill

(39 29 70 11)

Gatrie activates Luna! Brom's Def is cut in half! (16)

Brom receives 24 damage!

Both sides survive the fight!

Espinosa

Ike 52/52

Oscar 49/49

Makalov 51/51

Brom 3/55

Tibarn 66/66

Hawkeye

Tibarn 66/66 (20/20)

Ike 52/52

Gatrie 53/59

Ilyana 39/39

Oscar 49/49

Hawkeye acts next!...

Some other time because I gotta go soon, sorry guys. :(

Edited December 11, 2013 by PKL

[Elieson]

I would assume that seiges can't be countered in all arenas, and only Longbows can counter Longbows. Other than that, 1~2 can counter anything else. GBA-Arena, I mean.

[Espinosa]

Bwahaha lol. Also, I think Luna should cut only the base number.

I would assume that seiges can't be countered in all arenas, and only Longbows can counter Longbows. Other than that, 1~2 can counter anything else. GBA-Arena, I mean.

Yeah, but in GBA Brave Sword users also counter magic for example.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Espinosa

[PKL]

Bwahaha lol. Also, I think Luna should cut only the base number.

So, it doesn't take Knight Ward or supports into account? It's only 1 point of difference and your brom is so dead anyway lol

Botting was fun!

Edited December 11, 2013 by PKL

[Espinosa]

So, it doesn't take Knight Ward or supports into account? It's only 1 point of difference and your brom is so dead anyway lol

I would think so; no way to check though. No difference now, but it's good when we get the details figured out and stay consistent to those.