link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Espinosa]

Here is mine FE8 Tier List (for average stats meta)

Top:

Kyle

Gerik (best stats in game)

Forde

Franz

Erika

Tana

Vanessa

Cormag

Ephraim

High:

Moulder

Neimi

Seth

Joshua

Amelia

Colm

Mid;

Gilliam

Marisa

Sahel

Innes

Don't brother tier:

Everybody else.

I think the Cavs might be too high, and I don't know why Kyle would be above everyone. Vanessa might not deserve being in the same tier as Tana too, with poorer stats and supports.

[AnonymousSpeed]

So, I'm going to assume Ike X Oscar support is currently banned at all levels, A, B, or C. Which is fine, I'm just checking.

[X-Naut]

Cavs are up there because they're fast Garm users, 28/29 AS doubles a lot of units and they have some good support partners. I don't think they should top the list (that's probably Eirika/Tana territory), but they're certainly close.

[Refa]

Tana isn't good enough to reach the top of the list, with her lameass defensive stats and offensive capabilities.

[Espinosa]

So, I'm going to assume Ike X Oscar support is currently banned at all levels, A, B, or C. Which is fine, I'm just checking.

Yeah, these two can't have any support between each other.

Cavs are up there because they're fast Garm users, 28/29 AS doubles a lot of units and they have some good support partners. I don't think they should top the list (that's probably Eirika/Tana territory), but they're certainly close.

A problem with Garm users is that they lose the speed boost if they ever switch to a different weapon, and you're kinda tempted to when you have full weapon triangle control.

Haven't played FE8 as much as some other people so my insight could be off here.

Tana's pretty good defensively considering Bidoof gives her +5 defence. Some of the best supports around, too.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Bidoof!

Sorry, I just wanted to say that.

[dondon151]

Tana's biggest problem is that Dragon Axe users OHKO her.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Tana's biggest problem is that Dragon Axe users OHKO her.

I like the Dragon Axe.

You know I should probably just shut up and make an FE8 team.

[Espinosa]

I guess if we speak of averages without boosters, then Tana's not only OHKO'd by Dragon Axe but also has difficulty doubling anyone with Vidofnir unless she takes a Body Ring. Killer Lance is nowhere as good, especially with 2/5 of the teams being protected from crits.

[Refa]

Ephraim should be pretty high up there too, considering he 2HKOes everything, gets 2RKOed at worst (? Can someone confirm), has a great support with Eirika and is one of the few units who can deal significant damage to Eirika without using a god awful weapon (Regenlief is no Siegmund, but it is pretty good).

[Espinosa]

I just realised how quickly I forget what metagames are like after we haven't played them for a while.

Also, I wanted to let everyone know that I plan to open the sign-ups for the PoR (with customisation) event/tourney thing tomorrow or one of these days to see if running a forum event would be feasible in the future and also to just play games with good teams in what appears to be the most developed metagame we have by now.

A week or so ago, I revised the spoilered info on hosting games / skill mechanics / other stuff (under FE9 resources). Not sure if anyone's read the new thing (it's pretty long and elaborate) but I wanted to ask if some people could read it and tell me if it's understandable so that the mechanics / rules are set in stone when we begin.

[Nicolas]

Yeah, Tana has higher stats, but you know what? In most times that mean nothing. I calculated this and you almost always need the same number of turn to kill someone. 5 point of str isn't that huge diffrence when you are not doubling.

Cavaliers are on top, because their versitality. They can do really many things and you can't easy see what you enemy want to do. That's more useful than stats.

Gerik is best tank in game. There is only one weapon, which is effective agaist him, but it doesn't have WTD against him.

Efraim is so low, because if your opponent has more than half brain he won't let him life longer than two moves.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Well, I'm working on yet another FE9 team, are there any more hosts for those?

[Hawkeye]

Espinosa, the rules look pretty good. A few things:

The resolve explanation is a bit cumbersome and it took a few tries for me to get what you meant.

The two different brackets are too subtle to differentiate transformed and untransformed laguz.

Do laguz always have their gauge go down to zero when they unequip bands? I guess that's probably right, just making sure.

[dondon151]

Cavaliers are on top, because their versitality. They can do really many things and you can't easy see what you enemy want to do. That's more useful than stats.

GKs are bad. if someone is running a GK, he probably has garm, otherwise the GK gets doubled by everything. that's the opposite of versatile.

[Psych]

I know I don't really have anything to do with these, but since it's not an option in the poll...

You should allow Ragnel or Support Oscar, but not both, to be left up to the player's discretion.

[Nicolas]

GKs are bad. if someone is running a GK, he probably has garm, otherwise the GK gets doubled by everything. that's the opposite of versatile.

lolnope

You need 28 AS to double Franz/Forde and 27 to double Kyle.Only few units can do it (Marisa, Tana, Vanessa, Neimi, Joshua, Erika and other Garm user), but only Erika and Garm user is matter. Others aren't durable, have bad supports, loses AS with good weapon or their damage is "funny".

So what GK without Garm(for example: I'm gonna use both Kyle and Forde, when Kyle don't have Garm) can do? Use ravers! Use NBrave weapon without AS loses! And remember that Kyle has 28 Str! Only Efraim's offense is better.

[Espinosa]

I actually can't fully agree with dondon's logic there. Doubling somebody isn't a sufficient reason to secure an advantageous matchup. For example, Tana doubles Ephraim (not needing the Body Ring if Ephraim is weighed down by Siegmund in turn), but attacking Ephraim hurts her almost as much where she can be finished off next turn.

It's true though, you have to unequip Garm if going against an Axereaver / enemy with a sword, losing that +5 spd bonus.

[Nicolas]

I more think about team with two GKs. One with Garm and one, who would be used as support unit.

This team has many good points.

[Espinosa]

Well, the Cavs do support each other, so it's not a bad idea to base your team around.

Espinosa, the rules look pretty good. A few things:

The resolve explanation is a bit cumbersome and it took a few tries for me to get what you meant.

The two different brackets are too subtle to differentiate transformed and untransformed laguz.

Do laguz always have their gauge go down to zero when they unequip bands? I guess that's probably right, just making sure.

Thanks for the feedback!

The brackets might not be entirely necessary, and it's usually easy to keep track of whom's transformed or untransformed without any difference in bracket shape, but since you can't just check what a unit's current stats are in our simulation it's helpful to know and I'm simply offering my own method of going about it. Every host has his own style of delivering the information; accuracy is still the only important thing as well as not revealing too much (e.g. Oscar activates Nihil! should be announced instead of Oscar's Nihil nullifies Aether!).

It's tested that unequipping the Demi Band decreases the gauge all the way down to 0, so I assume it's the case for the Laguz Band as well. I've never actually cleared on Path of Radiance on Normal difficulty (was informed it's too easy before I even started out) so I'm mostly theorycrafting as regards the royal mechanics.

My Resolve mechanics explanation:

Resolve and Wrath activate when their user is exactly at or below 50% HP. This should be announced only when the unit is about to attack and is in Resolve/Wrath range, even though, mostly without exceptions, Resolve's skl/spd boosts are in effect even when the user hasn't yet countered or is unable to counter.

Resolve grants its user 50% extra strength (not magic), skill and speed, bonuses rounded down. Skill and speed bonuses are factored in calculation hit and avo respectively.

The exception for Resolve not activating is when its user provokes the opponent to hit them into Resolve range by initiating a round of combat during which they suffer sufficient damage to get into Resolve range (above which they were previously). The bonuses from Resolve will not appear until the round of combat is over in this case. This exception doesn't apply to the Resolve user being a target of an attack or initiating a round of combat against somebody with Vantage assuming said counterattack puts them into Resolve range.

The wording could probably use more work, but I really don't know how to make the exception clearer than it currently is - the mechanic is in itself rather confusing. Any advice would be welcome here.

[dondon151]

resolve can only activate before a unit with the skill performs an attack. when resolve activates, damage, hit, crit, and whether or not the units in combat will double attack are rechecked. [cue examples]

there, that explanation is simple.

[Espinosa]

It's simple indeed, but is it complete? Because if you're not performing an attack, Resolve kicking in still makes a visible difference statwise (e.g. receiving a hit from Meteor or being hit with a bow). Attacking only affects whether or not it is announced (our equivalent of the red-coloured flashing in-game).

[Espinosa]

Would you look at these huge buggers? I think I'll try to flip all the pictures facing right from scratch, because they just keep randomly increasing in size.

edit: aaaah, and it's happening to the guys facing right too:

I just don't know what to do about this...

Edited February 10, 2014 by Espinosa

[Hawkeye]

I'd say something like:

If the unit is not in resolve range and is then hit into resolve range, resolve will only apply for the counterattack if the resolve unit has not already attacked (i.e. if the enemy initiated combat, or the resolve unit initiated combat but the enemy unit activated vantage). If the resolve unit attacked first and then the enemy's counterattack puts them into resolve range, the bonuses will not be applied for this round of combat (so if resolve gives the unit enough speed to double, they will not do so. If the unit was already able to double before factoring resolve, the second hit will not be boosted by resolve).

[Espinosa]

That sounds wordy and complicated too, especially considering the explanation isn't the product of my writing. Also,

If the unit was already able to double before factoring resolve, the second hit will not be boosted by resolve).

Actually, this wasn't implied by me before, but I'm going to check this one out in-game because I'm pretty sure it's the other way around.