link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Moblin Major General]

Final Boss Link Arena

Dragaron

Medeus(Shadow Dragon)

Anankos

Idoun

Grima

Fire Dragon

Medeus(Earth Dragon)

VS

Julius

Fomortiis

Takumi(CQ final)

Duma

Berserk Ashnard

Ashera

Veld

Best out of 10

Edited September 9, 2016 by Feldmarschall Rommel

[Espinosa]

Here's another one of these rare posts stating that for some time I will again be available to play / host games. I'd really rather not bother with anything other than Fates LA though, and that remains an area we never got to learn or decide upon much (speaking of the way skills work) by now.

I guess I can't really say that the LA has been on a hiatus due to my absence, since it probably has more to do with Horace's inactivity since we could often get several games going at once with one of us hosting and one often playing the same game.

So if Horace renews his interest or a plot twist occurs and PKL gets back into it, we could see some action here; otherwise, probably not.

Right now though, I'm having trouble remembering where we left off. We were discussing what to do with skills like Hana's personal, not agreeing on anything, Horace also proposing stuff like Laslow's personal rally should do stuff and me getting intolerant about the idea, and I think that's where it stopped?

Don't think we came close to establishing a tier list or anything, or understanding how a Fates metagame would work - we had a very good idea about Path of Radiance and Awakening metas though (the two most playable metas we've had since this thing's inception, which explains why each has had a finished tournament).

So tl;dr if there's any chance of continuing, we could get back to this thing. Or each of us could forget about it and focus on all those other things to do, which has also worked well for me so far, lol.

[Quintessence]

Iirc we left on the discussion about whether Elise's and Camilla's personal were worth banning, worked as an aura or worked as if the team was actually a tile layout where they favored only the adjacent portraits. Oh and we worked with supports and dual bonus.

I don't know, Fates meta has a lot to discover and test that only the idea of thinking about it gets me awfully lazy. There's also one or two games left in suspense that weren't developed (dunno if it was fue to Horace being unable to host or what).

Anyways, I'm not interested in this meta, it has a lot of stuff that... ehh. Add to that that I'm not a fan of the game. I enjoyed Awakening's meta A LOT, it was versatile, a bit volatile but had a lot of variety and was fun. But Fates meta needs a lot of work because we don't even know what are the better setups.

I'd be interested in TMS#FE meta, although there are little resources about it, and few people play it, so ~

[Darrman]

How would one even have a TMS meta? Have teams of five monsters duke it out?

[Espinosa]

Ah, maybe that's why people's interest died down, because Fates doesn't seem fun to play? tbqh, Fates is the only thing I'd play/host atm.

To make any discoveries about the metagame, I think we need to take a few really simple steps:

- decide to do with controversial AoE skills

- not dabble in fanfiction by changing stuff like rally skills to somehow work in the arena; after all, we never did try making staves a thing in LA even once

- play some games with basic rulesets, including natural reclasses only and any reclasses possible in a single (probably) Revelation file (parents only for now)

I don't think any progress will be made until more games are played though! Trying to pick the best of the best and then seeing if they are as effective as we'd thought seems like the way to go. Isn't this how we always went about things? I kinda forget right now haha. Though I imagine I'd had a better understanding of this stuff before we all moved on to other things.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Espinosa

[Quintessence]

How would one even have a TMS meta? Have teams of five monsters duke it out?

A cast of 3 playable characters with SP gauge on zero. Dunno about the mechanics so

= EDIT =

Ah, maybe that's why people's interest died down, because Fates doesn't seem fun to play? tbqh, Fates is the only thing I'd play/host atm.

To make any discoveries about the metagame, I think we need to take a few really simple steps:

- decide to do with controversial AoE skills

- not dabble in fanfiction by changing stuff like rally skills to somehow work in the arena; after all, we never did try making staves a thing in LA even once

- play some games with basic rulesets, including natural reclasses only and any reclasses possible in a single (probably) Revelation file (parents only for now)

I don't think any progress will be made until more games are played though! Trying to pick the best of the best and then seeing if they are as effective as we'd thought seems like the way to go. Isn't this how we always went about things? I kinda forget right now haha. Though I imagine I'd had a better understanding of this stuff before we all moved on to other things.

In fact, I think a lot of people might like the Fates Arena, it's probably a personal thing regarding my posture about the meta. I sent like 2 or 3 teams but the games weren't developed, and I lost the continuity of the game with Pokemon Moon, Mobius FF, TMS and life stuff.

= EDIT 2 =

If we agree on certain discrepancies and discuss how the affect the meta and define a basis on it, I think it will work and basically rollout if people put interest on it.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Quintessence

[General Horace]

just saw this now

I'm fairly busy over the christmas season, basically only going to have downtime from the 20th-23rd until Jan 2nd, so I probably couldn't host/play any games till then,

[Espinosa]

I could manage to host a few games in the next couple of weeks. Working on putting up a few more resources for the stickied thread, but what just got me wondering is Fates' RNG.

https://fire-emblem-strategy.tumblr.com/post/143452625727/how-fates-handles-hit-rates

How exactly are we going to adapt this to the usual RN rolls?

[Espinosa]

The Link Arena has just received a new resource - skills learnt naturally listed as text, which may be preferable to the image format also hosted in the same post, as well as skills each potential friend grants:

Anna - Lucky Seven, Demoiselle, Inspiration, Shurikenbreaker, Tomebreaker

Arthur - Gamble, Axebreaker, Axefaire, Aegis, Luna, Sol, Armored Blow, HP+5, Elbow Room (A+ Azama: Miracle, Renewal, Countermagic, Tomefaire) (A+ Niles/Keaton: Lucky Seven, Shurikenbreaker) (A+ Benny: Defence+2, Wary Fighter, Pavise)

Azama - Renewal, Tomefaire, Miracle, Countermagic (A+ Subaki: Darting Blow, Camaraderie, Warding Blow, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Hayato/Kaden: Magic+2, Rend Heaven, Quixotic) (A+ Arthur: HP+5, Gamble, Axefaire, Sol, Axebreaker)

Azura - Amaterasu, Camaraderie, Air Superiority, Darting Blow, Warding Blow, Luck+4, Voice of Peace (A+ Sakura: Miracle, Renewal, Countermagic, Tomefaire) (A+ Elise: Demoiselle, Inspiration, Tomebreaker)

Benny - Gamble, Axebreaker, Axefaire, Pavise, Luna, Sol, Wary Fighter, Armored Blow, Defence+2, HP+5 (A+ Hayato: Magic+2, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic)

Beruka - Gamble, Axebreaker, Swordbreaker, Axefaire, Sol, Savage Blow, HP+5, Strength+2, Trample (A+ Oboro: Seal Defence, Seal Speed, Lancefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic) (A+ Camilla: Heartseeker, Malefic Aura, Vengeance, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Lifetaker) (A+ Selena: Strong Riposte, Sol, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker)

Camilla - Lifetaker, Heartseeker, Bowbreaker, Swordbreaker, Seal Magic, Vengeance, Savage Blow, Strength+2, Malefic Aura, Trample (A+ Hinoka: Darting Blow, Camaraderie, Warding Blow, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Elise: Demoiselle, Inspiration, Tomebreaker) (A+ Selena: Strong Riposte, Sol, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker) (A+ Beruka: HP+5, Gamble, Axefaire, Sol, Axebreaker)

Charlotte - Gamble, Demoiselle, Inspiration, Axebreaker, Tomebreaker, Axefaire, Sol, HP+5 (A+ Rinkah: Seal Resistance, Death Blow, Lancebreaker) (A+ Nyx: Heartseeker, Malefic Aura, Vengeance, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Lifetaker) (A+ Beruka: Strength+2, Swordbreaker, Savage Blow, Trample) (A+ Peri: Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow)

Corrin - Dragon Fang, Draconic Hex, Hoshidan Unity

Effie - Demoiselle, Inspiration, Tomebreaker, Pavise, Luna, Wary Fighter, Armored Blow, Defence+2 (A+ Mozu: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Hana: Duelist's Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Life or Death) (A+ Nyx: Heartseeker, Malefic Aura, Vengeance, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Lifetaker)

Elise - Demoiselle, Inspiration, Swordbreaker, Tomebreaker, Savage Blow, Strength+2, Trample (A+ Azura: Darting Blow, Camaraderie, Warding Blow, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Sakura: Miracle, Renewal, Countermagic, Tomefaire) (A+ Effie: Defence+2, Wary Fighter, Pavise, Luna, Armored Blow)

Felicia - Demoiselle, Inspiration, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Tomebreaker, Sol, Strong Riposte (A+ Hana: Duelist's Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Life or Death) (A+ Peri: Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow) (A+ Flora: Heartseeker, Malefic Aura, Vengeance, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Lifetaker)

Flora - Lifetaker, Heartseeker, Demoiselle, Inspiration, Axebreaker, Bowbreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Tomebreaker, Seal Magic, Sol, Vengeance, Malefic Aura, Strong Riposte

Fuga - Renewal, Lancebreaker, Swordfaire, Tomefaire, Seal Resistance, Seal Strength, Miracle, Astra, Countermagic, Vantage, Death Blow, Duelist's Blow (A+ Hayato: Magic+2, Rend Heaven, Quixotic)

Gunter - Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Swordbreaker, Aegis, Luna, Sol, Armored Blow, Savage Blow, Strength+2, Elbow Room, Strong Riposte, Trample (A+ Jakob: Gentilhomme, Inspiration, Tomebreaker)

Hana - Renewal, Swordfaire, Tomefaire, Seal Strength, Miracle, Astra, Countermagic, Vantage, Duelist's Blow (A+ Felicia: Demoiselle, Inspiration, Tomebreaker) (A+ Setsuna: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Effie: Defence+2, Wary Fighter, Pavise, Luna, Armored Blow)

Hayato - Quixotic, Lancebreaker, Tomefaire, Seal Resistance, Rend Heaven, Death Blow, Magic+2 (A+ Azama: Miracle, Renewal, Countermagic, Tomefaire) (A+ Benny: Defence+2, Wary Fighter, Pavise, Luna, Armored Blow) (A+ Fuga: Duelist's Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Life or Death)

Hinata - Lancebreaker, Swordfaire, Seal Resistance, Seal Strength, Astra, Vantage, Death Blow, Duelist's Blow (A+ Subaki: Darting Blow, Camaraderie, Warding Blow, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Takumi: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Kaden: Magic+2, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic) (A+ Odin: Heartseeker, Malefic Aura, Vengeance, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Lifetaker)

Hinoka - Amaterasu, Camaraderie, Air Superiority, Quixotic, Lancefaire, Seal Defence, Seal Speed, Rend Heaven, Darting Blow, Warding Blow (A+ Azura: Demoiselle, Inspiration, Tomebreaker) (A+ Sakura: Miracle, Renewal, Countermagic, Tomefaire) (A+ Setsuna: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire) (A+ Camilla: Strength+2, Swordbreaker, Savage Blow, Trample)

Jakob - Gentilhomme, Inspiration, Tomebreaker, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow, Elbow Room (A+ Takumi: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire, Air Superiority, Amaterasu)

Izana - Renewal, Swordfaire, Tomefaire, Seal Strength, Miracle, Astra, Countermagic, Vantage, Duelist's Blow

Kaden - Quixotic, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Magic+2, Evenhanded, Beastbane, Even Better, Grisly Wound (A+ Hinata: Duelist's Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Life or Death) (A+ Azama: Miracle, Renewal, Countermagic) (A+ Keaton: HP+5, Gamble, Axefaire, Sol, Axebreaker)

Kagero - Quixotic, Shurikenfaire, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Poison Strike, Magic+2 (A+ Rinkah: Seal Resistance, Death Blow, Lancebreaker) (A+ Setsuna: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Peri: Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow)

Kaze - Shurikenfaire, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Astra, Vantage, Duelist's Blow, Poison Strike (A+ Silas/Xander: Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow)

Keaton - Gamble, Axebreaker, Axefaire, Sol, HP+5, Odd Shaped, Beastbane, Better Odds, Grisly Wound (A+ Benny: Defence+2, Wary Fighter, Pavise, Luna, Armored Blow) (A+ Laslow: Strong Riposte, Sol, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker) (A+ Kaden: Magic+2, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic)

Laslow - Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Axefaire, Shurikenfaire, Sol, Poison Strike, Strong Riposte (A+ Odin: Heartseeker, Malefic Aura, Vengeance, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Lifetaker) (A+ Keaton: HP+5, Gamble, Axefaire, Sol, Axebreaker) (A+ Xander: Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow)

Leo - Lifetaker, Heartseeker, Gentilhomme, Inspiration, Bowbreaker, Tomebreaker, Seal Magic, Vengeance, Malefic Aura (A+ Takumi: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Odin: Duelist's Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Life or Death) (A+ Niles: Lucky Seven, Shurikenbreaker) (A+ Xander: Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow)

Mozu - Amaterasu, Air Superiority, Bowfaire, Seal Strength, Certain Blow, Quick Draw (A+ Oboro: Seal Defence, Seal Speed, Lancefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic) (A+ Effie: Defence+2, Wary Fighter, Pavise, Luna, Armored Blow) (A+ Nyx: Heartseeker, Malefic Aura, Vengeance, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Lifetaker)

Niles - Lifetaker, Heartseeker, Lucky Seven, Bowbreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Seal Magic, Vengeance, Malefic Aura (A+ Subaki: Darting Blow, Camaraderie, Warding Blow, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Arthur: HP+5, Gamble, Axefaire, Sol, Axebreaker)

Nyx - Lifetaker, Heartseeker, Lucky Seven, Bowbreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Seal Magic, Vengeance, Malefic Aura (A+ Mozu: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Orochi: Magic+2, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic) (A+ Effie: Defence+2, Wary Fighter, Pavise, Luna, Armored Blow) (A+ Charlotte: HP+5, Gamble, Axefaire, Sol, Axebreaker)

Oboro - Quixotic, Lancefaire, Seal Defence, Seal Speed, Rend Heaven (A+ Mozu: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Rinkah: Seal Resistance, Death Blow, Lancebreaker) (A+ Orochi: Magic+2, Tomefaire) (A+ Beruka: Strength+2, Swordbreaker, Savage Blow, Trample)

Odin - Lifetaker, Heartseeker, Bowbreaker, Swordfaire, Seal Magic, Seal Strength, Astra, Vengeance, Vantage, Duelist's Blow, Malefic Aura (A+ Niles: Lucky Seven, Shurikenbreaker) (A+ Laslow: Strong Riposte, Sol, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker) (A+ Leo: Gentilhomme, Inspiration, Tomebreaker)

Orochi - Quixotic, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Magic+2 (A+ Rinkah: Seal Resistance, Death Blow, Lancebreaker) (A+ Oboro: Seal Defence, Seal Speed, Lancefaire) (A+ Kagero: Poison Strike, Shurikenfaire) (A+ Nyx: Heartseeker, Malefic Aura, Vengeance, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Lifetaker)

Peri - Lifetaker, Heartseeker, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Aegis, Luna, Vengeance, Armored Blow, Elbow Room, Malefic Aura (A+ Felicia: Demoiselle, Inspiration, Tomebreaker) (A+ Kagero: Poison Strike, Shurikenfaire) (A+ Selena: Strong Riposte, Sol, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker) (A+ Charlotte: HP+5, Gamble, Axefaire, Sol, Axebreaker)

Reina - Amaterasu, Camaraderie, Air Superiority, Quixotic, Shurikenfaire, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Darting Blow, Poison Strike, Warding Blow, Magic+2

Rinkah - Lancebreaker, Shurikenfaire, Seal Resistance, Death Blow, Poison Strike (A+ Orochi: Magic+2, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic) (A+ Oboro: Seal Defence, Seal Speed, Lancefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic) (A+ Charlotte: HP+5, Gamble, Axefaire, Sol, Axebreaker)

Ryoma - Amaterasu, Camaraderie, Air Superiority, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Astra, Vantage, Darting Blow, Duelist's Blow, Warding Blow (A+ Silas/Xander: Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow) (A+ Takumi: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire) (A+ Saizo: Poison Strike, Shurikenfaire)

Saizo - Shurikenfaire, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Astra, Vantage, Duelist's Blow, Poison Strike (A+ Subaki: Darting Blow, Camaraderie, Warding Blow, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Laslow: Strong Riposte, Sol, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker)

Sakura - Amaterasu, Camaraderie, Renewal, Air Superiority, Tomefaire, Miracle, Countermagic, Darting Blow, Warding Blow (A+ Hana: Duelist's Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Life or Death) (A+ Elise: Demoiselle, Inspiration, Tomebreaker)

Scarlet - Lucky Seven, Shurikenbreaker, Swordbreaker, Pavise, Aegis, Wary Fighter, Armored Blow, Savage Blow, Defence+2, Strength+2, Trample

Selena - Amaterasu, Camaraderie, Air Superiority, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Sol, Darting Blow, Warding Blow, Strong Riposte (A+ Setsuna: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire) (A+ Camilla/Beruka: Strength+2, Swordbreaker, Savage Blow, Trample) (A+ Peri: Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow)

Setsuna - Amaterasu, Air Superiority, Bowfaire, Shurikenfaire, Certain Blow, Poison Strike, Quick Draw (A+ Hana: Duelist's Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Life or Death) (A+ Hinoka: Darting Blow, Camaraderie, Warding Blow) (A+ Selena: Strong Riposte, Sol, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker)

Shura - Gamble, Lucky Seven, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Axefaire, Shurikenfaire, Sol, Poison Strike, HP+5

Silas - Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Aegis, Luna, Sol, Armored Blow, Elbow Room, Strong Riposte (A+ Jakob: Gentilhomme, Inspiration, Tomebreaker) (A+ Kaze: Poison Strike, Shurikenfaire) (A+ Ryoma: Duelist's Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Life or Death)

Subaki - Amaterasu, Camaraderie, Air Superiority, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Astra, Vantage, Darting Blow, Duelist's Blow, Warding Blow (A+ Saizo Poison Strike, Shurikenfaire) (A+ Azama: Miracle, Renewal, Countermagic, Tomefaire) (A+ Niles: Lucky Seven, Shurikenbreaker)

Takumi - Amaterasu, Air Superiority, Quixotic, Bowfaire, Lancefaire, Seal Defence, Seal Speed, Rend Heaven, Certain Blow, Quick Draw (A+ Jakob: Gentilhomme, Inspiration, Tomebreaker) (A+ Hinata/Ryoma: Duelist's Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Life or Death) (A+ Leo: Heartseeker, Malefic Aura, Vengeance, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Lifetaker)

Xander - Swordbreaker, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow, Savage Blow, Strength+2, Elbow Room, Trample (A+ Kaze: Poison Strike, Shurikenfaire) (A+ Ryoma: Duelist's Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Life or Death) (A+ Leo: Gentilhomme, Inspiration, Tomebreaker) (A+ Laslow: Strong Riposte, Sol, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker)

Yukimura - Renewal, Swordfaire, Tomefaire, Seal Strength, Miracle, Astra, Countermagic, Vantage, Duelist's Blow

May contain errors, so feel free to check it out. It'll probably be easy to locate errors when we start using all resources in team building.

Currently wondering what else would be good to put up. Viable weapons? A list for natural/friend reclasses possible simialar to the one with skills?

And while looking at the skills each character has available, I've thought if some of the banned skills could make a return. Ninja may be a good class (idk yet actually), but it only offers two okay skills, and Apothecary and Villager presently grant absolutely NOTHING. I was fairly categorical about Spendthrift being outlawed immediately, but is it really so bad? I imagine comboing Spendthrift with Life or Death on the first turn could prove deadly, and at least two units can do so - Yukimura and Izana... I imagine Oboro could benefit the most from the skill seeing how she's already really viable with Spear Fighter's max stats, good mods and double Seals.

It seems like a metagame consisting entirely of parents with no marriage (too much freedom can be too much, but we can question this when we get deep enough into the metagame) but featuring friendship seals is the way to go. This way, nearly everyone has 3 class sets, except Fuga who can befriend Hayato and as such gets 3. Corrinsexuals don't get to choose their sets, while others have room for customisation, which can make guessing fun.

[Elieson]

I could manage to host a few games in the next couple of weeks. Working on putting up a few more resources for the stickied thread, but what just got me wondering is Fates' RNG.

https://fire-emblem-strategy.tumblr.com/post/143452625727/how-fates-handles-hit-rates

How exactly are we going to adapt this to the usual RN rolls?

I've taken a hiatus to working on a Fates and PoR/RD Spreadsheet to run autocalcs on, and tbh I do'nt really wanna build a hosting method for Fates because coding Seals and Shuriken debuffs will be a literal nightmare, but I could probably have PoR/RD sheets, along with an improved Awakening sheet, ready to go for next month. I'd do ones for FE 1-5 because with FE13 coding, 4 and 5 wouldn't be too hard, but no one plays those metas.

since you said Resources

[Espinosa]

And I've got the Viable Weapon resource done:

Weapon          Mt  Hit  Crt  Rnk Rng  Additional effect

swords / katanas
Raijinto        11   80   5   Prf 1-2  spd+1,def/res-1, avo+10; +4 str if in inventory (Ryoma only)
Siegfried       11   80   5   Prf 1-2  cev+10; +4 def if in inventory (Xander only)
Silver Katana   12   90   0   B    1   spd+1,def/res-1, cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle
Silver Sword    12   90   0   B    1   cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle
Venge Katana     9   90   0   A    1   spd+1,def/res-1, avo-20; 2xMt on counter
Axe Splitter     7   75   0   D    1   spd+1,def/res-1, avo-10; eff. vs axes
Dual Katana      8   75   5   C    1   spd+1,def/res-1; reverse WT
Practice Katana  6   80   0   C    1   spd+5,def/res-1
Armourslayer     9   95   0   D    1   eff. vs armours
Wyrmslayer       9   95   0   D    1   eff. vs dragons
Killing Edge     6   85  25   C    1   avo-10; 4x dmg on crit
Levin Sword     11   80   0   C   1-2  mgc; avo-20; no crits/skills
Kodachi          5   85   0   D   1-2  spd+1,def/res-1; no dbl, foe dbl+5; no crits/skills
Wakizashi       10   75   0   B    2   spd+1,def/res-1, avo-10; no dbl, foe dbl+5

lances / naginata
Silver Naginata 13   80   0   B    1   def/res+1, cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle
Silver Lance    14   80   0   B    1   cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle
Venge Naginata   9   90   0   A    1   def/res+1, avo-20; 2xMt on counter
Swordcatcher     7   65   0   D    1   def/res+1, avo-10; eff. vs swords
Dual Katana      8   85   5   C    1   def/res+1; reverse WT
Guard Naginata	 5   75   0   C    1   def/res+5
Beast Killer    10   85   0   D    1   eff. vs beasts/riders
Killer Lance     7   75  25   C    1   avo-10; 4x dmg on crit
Bolt Naginata   11   70   0   C   1-2  def/res+1; mgc; avo-20; no crits/skills
Javelin          6   75   0   D   1-2  no dbl, foe dbl+5; no crits/skills
Spear           12   75   0   B    2   avo-10; no dbl, foe dbl+5

axes / clubs
Silver Club     14   75   5   B    1   cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle
Silver Axe      16   70   0   B    1   cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle
Venge Club      10   75   5   A    1   avo-20; 2xMt on counter
Pike-Ruin Club	10   60   5   D    1   avo-10; eff. vs lances
Dual Club        9   60  10   C    1   reverse WT
Hammer          12   75   0   D    1   eff. vs armours
Killer Axe       8   65  25   C    1   avo-10; 4x dmg on crit
Great Club       6   45  55   C    1   avo-5; 4x dmg on crit 
Bolt Axe        14   65   0   C   1-2  mgc; avo-20; no crits/skills
Throwing Club	 6   70   0   D   1-2  no dbl, foe dbl+5; no crits/skills
Tomahawk        14   55   0   B    2   avo-10; no dbl, foe dbl+5
Battering Ram   12   60   5   B    2   no dbl, foe dbl+5

bows / yumi
Fujin Yumi      14   70   5  Prf   2   res+2, avo+10 (Takumi only)
Silver Yumi     16   70   0   B    2   res+2, cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle
Silver Bow      15   80   0   B    2   cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle
Spys Yumi        5   55   0   A    3   avo-20; no dbl
Dual Yumi       11   55   5   C    2   res+2; reverse WT
Illusory Yumi    8   65   0   C    2   res+10, avo-10
Surefire Yumi   10  120   0   B    2   def-4,res-2, avo-30
Killer Bow       7   75  25   C    2   avo-10; 4x dmg on crit
Shining Bow     13   70   0   C   1-2  mgc; avo-20; no crits/skills
Mini Bow         7   75   0   D    1   avo-10; no dbl, foe dbl+5

tomes / scrolls
Brynhildr       10   80   5  Prf  1-2  skl% Seal Magic, cev+10 (Leo only)
Ginnungagap     15   65   0   A   1-2  mag/2 for next atk
Dragon Spirit	11   85  10   A   1-2  skl/def+1; eff. vs dragons; mag/2 for next atk
Rabbit Spirit   11   75   0   B   1-2  res+1, cev-5; mag/skl-2 after battle
Ragnarok        11   80   0   B   1-2  mag/skl-2 after battle
Tiger Spirit	 8   70   0   C   1-2  spd+1, avo-5, dbl-3
Calamity Gate    7   70   5   C   1-2  spd/def+1; reverse WT
Horse Spirit	 4   70   0   D   1-2  skl/spd/def/res+3
Mjölnir          5   75  25   C   1-2  avo-10; 4x dmg on crit
Nosferatu        7   70   0   D   1-2  absorb HP; avo-20; no dbl; no crits/skills (Sorcerer only)

daggers / shuriken
Silver Shuriken 10   85   0   B   1-2  spd+2, cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle [spd/def/res-4]
Silver Dagger   10   90   0   B   1-2  cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle [spd/def/res-4]
Spys  Shuriken   1   70   0   A    3   spd+2, avo-20; no dbl [str/mag/skl/spd/lck-2, def/res-5]
Steel Shuriken	 7   80   0   C   1-2  spd+2, avo-5; dbl-3 [str-3, def/res-4]
Dual Shuriken    6   70   5   C   1-2  spd+2; reverse WT [str/mag-2, def/res-4]
Sting Shuriken   7   90   0   D   1-2  spd+2; eff. vs armours [skl/def/res-3]
Hunters Knife	 7   95   0   D   1-2  eff. vs beasts/riders [lck-2, def/res-3]
Barb Shuriken    4   80  25   C   1-2  spd+2, avo-10; 4x dmg on crit [lck/def/res-4]
Flame Shuriken	 9   75   0   C   1-2  mgc; spd+2, avo-20; no crits/skills [mag/def/res-4]

Once again, I'll be indebted if any errors are found, but likely we'll find them when we're actively working with stuff.

And yeah, I can't imagine Fates sheets working as there's way too much stuff to take into account. I did everything 'raw', so to speak, with all the older metagames too, though, just couldn't get used to doing it otherwise.

Now wondering what to focus on next - available classes maybe? Or trying to theorycraft-tier every character?

I imagine we'll be ready to play a game really soon.

[Elieson]

Is it worth adding which games have which weapons? Primarily, for S-rank stuff.

[Espinosa]

We banned S-rank weapons and braves I think? But it shouldn't matter much when it's pretty much assumed everyone bases a team off a possible Revelation file (more units to choose from and build friendship between); then again, you can get all the same weapons in Museum Melee in the other two paths anyway.

[Elieson]

We banned S-rank weapons and braves I think? But it shouldn't matter much when it's pretty much assumed everyone bases a team off a possible Revelation file (more units to choose from and build friendship between); then again, you can get all the same weapons in Museum Melee in the other two paths anyway.

If you're running [Cheve's Anonymous Wyvern Rider] or something though.

I forgot about Museum Melee though. That makes sense.

[Carmine Sword]

In the weapon list, the Mini Bow is listed as lowering your avoid, lowering your effective speed, and being unable to double, when it does none of these things.

Brynhildr gives a Skill% chance to half the enemy's magic stat during damage calculation, it doesn't inflict Seal Magic on the enemy.

[Espinosa]

It does lower your avo by 10 actually! Edited everything else, cheers Carmine! And I used to think Brynfuidufdfgd has the same proc effect as Seal Magic; guess not.

Anna - Adventurer/Bow Knight/Maid/Strategist

Arthur - Berserker/Hero/Paladin/Great Knight (A+ Azama: Great Master/Onmyoji) (A+ Niles/Keaton: Adventurer/Bow Knight) (A+ Benny: General)

Azama - Great Master/Onmyoji/Merchant/Mechanist (A+ Subaki: Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Hayato/Kaden: Basara) (A+ Arthur: Berserker/Hero)

Azura - Dancer/Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight (A+ Sakura: Priestess/Onmyoji) (A+ Elise: Maid/Strategist)

Benny - General/Great Knight/Berserker/Hero (A+ Hayato: Onmyoji/Basara)

Beruka - Wyvern Lord/Malig Knight/Berserker/Hero (A+ Oboro: Spear Master/Basara) (A+ Camilla: Dark Knight/Sorcerer) (A+ Selena: Hero/Bow Knight)

Camilla - Wyvern Lord/Malig Knight/Dark Knight/Sorcerer (A+ Hinoka: Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Elise: Maid/) (A+ Selena: Hero/Bow Knight) (A+ Beruka: Berserker/Hero)

Charlotte - Berserker/Hero/Maid/Strategist (A+ Rinkah: Blacksmith/Oni Chieftain) (A+ Nyx: Dark Knight/Sorcerer) (A+ Beruka: Wyvern Lord/Malig Knight) (A+ Peri: Paladin/Great Knight)

Corrin - Nohr Noble/Hoshido Noble

Effie - General/Great Knight/Strategist/Maid (A+ Mozu: Sniper/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Hana: Swordmaster/Master of Arms) (A+ Nyx: Dark Knight/Sorcerer)

Elise - Strategist/Maid/Wyvern Lord/Malig Knight (A+ Azura: Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Sakura: Priestess/Onmyoji) (A+ Effie: General/Great Knight)

Felicia - Strategist/Maid/Hero/Bow Knight (A+ Hana: Swordmaster/Master of Arms) (A+ Peri: Paladin/Great Knight) (A+ Flora: Dark Knight/Sorcerer)

Flora - Strategist/Maid/Hero/Bow Knight/Dark Knight/Sorcerer

Fuga - Swordmaster/Master of Arms/Blacksmith/Oni Chieftain/Great Master/Onmyoji (A+ Hayato: Basara)

Gunter - Paladin/Great Knight/Wyvern Lord/Malig Knight/Hero/Bow Knight (A+ Jakob: Strategist/Butler)

Hana - Swordmaster/Master of Arms/Priestess/Onmyoji (A+ Felicia: Strategist/Maid) (A+ Setsuna: Sniper/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Effie: General/Great Knight)

Hayato - Onmyoji/Basara/Blacksmith/Oni Chieftain (A+ Azama: Great Master) (A+ Benny: General/Great Knight) (A+ Fuga: Swordmaster/Master of Arms)

Hinata - Swordmaster/Master of Arms/Blacksmith/Oni Chieftain (A+ Subaki: Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Takumi: Sniper/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Kaden: Onmyoji/Basara) (A+ Odin: Dark Knight/Sorcerer)

Hinoka - Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight/Spear Master/Basara (A+ Azura: Strategist/Maid) (A+ Sakura: Priestess/Onmyoji) (A+ Setsuna: Sniper) (A+ Camilla: Wyvern Lord/Kinshi Knight)

Jakob - Butler/Strategist/Paladin/Great Knight (A+ Takumi: Sniper/Kinshi Knight)

Izana - Onmyoji/Great Master/Swordmaster/Master of Arms/Merchant/Mechanist

Kaden - Nine-Tales/Onmyoji/Basara (A+ Hinata: Swordmaster/Master of Arms) (A+ Azama: Great Master) (A+ Keaton: Berserker/Hero)

Kagero - Master Ninja/Mechanist/Onmyoji/Basara (A+ Rinkah: Blacksmith/Oni Chieftain) (A+ Setsuna: Sniper/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Peri: Paladin/Great Knight)

Kaze - Master Ninja/Mechanist/Swordmaster/Master of Arms (A+ Silas/Xander: Paladin/Great Knight)

Keaton - Wolfssegner/Berserker/Hero (A+ Benny: General/Great Knight) (A+ Laslow: Bow Knight) (A+ Kaden: Onmyoji/Basara)

Laslow - Hero/Bow Knight/Master Ninja/Mechanist (A+ Odin: Dark Knight/Sorcerer) (A+ Keaton: Berserker) (A+ Xander: Paladin/Great Knight)

Leo - Dark Knight/Sorcerer/Strategist/Butler (A+ Takumi: Sniper/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Odin: Swordmaster/Master of Arms) (A+ Niles: Adventurer/Bow Knight) (A+ Xander: Paladin/Great Knight)

Mozu - Merchant/Master of Arms/Sniper/Kinshi Knight (A+ Oboro: Spear Master/Basara) (A+ Effie: General/Great Knight) (A+ Nyx: Dark Knight/Sorcerer)

Niles - Adventurer/Bow Knight/Dark Knight/Sorcerer (A+ Subaki: Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Arthur: Berserker/Hero)

Nyx - Dark Knight/Sorcerer/Adventurer/Bow Knight (A+ Mozu: Sniper/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Orochi: Onmyoji/Basara) (A+ Effie: General/Great Knight) (A+ Charlotte: Berserker/Hero)

Oboro - Spear Master/Basara/Merchant/Mechanist (A+ Mozu: Sniper/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Rinkah: Blacksmith/Oni Chieftain) (A+ Orochi: Onmyoji) (A+ Beruka: Wyvern Lord/Malig Knight)

Odin - Dark Knight/Sorcerer/Swordmaster/Master of Arms (A+ Niles: Adventurer/Bow Knight) (A+ Laslow: Hero/Bow Knight) (A+ Leo: Strategist/Butler)

Orochi - Onmyoji/Basara/Merchant/Mechanist (A+ Rinkah: Blacksmith/) (A+ Oboro: Spear Master) (A+ Kagero: Master Ninja) (A+ Nyx: Dark Knight/Sorcerer)

Peri - Paladin/Great Knight/Dark Knight/Sorcerer (A+ Felicia: Strategist/Maid) (A+ Kagero: Master Ninja/Mechanist) (A+ Selena: Hero/Bow Knight) (A+ Charlotte: Berserker/Hero)

Reina - Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight/Onmyoji/Basara/Master Ninja/Mechanist

Rinkah - Blacksmith/Oni Chieftain/Master Ninja/Mechanist (A+ Orochi: Onmyoji/Basara) (A+ Oboro: Spear Master/Basara) (A+ Charlotte: Berserker/Hero)

Ryoma - Swordmaster/Master of Arms/Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight (A+ Silas/Xander: Paladin/Great Knight) (A+ Takumi: Sniper) (A+ Saizo: Master Ninja/Mechanist)

Saizo - Master Ninja/Mechanist/Swordmaster/Master of Arms (A+ Subaki: Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight) (A+ Laslow: Hero/Bow Knight)

Sakura - Priestess/Onmyoji/Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight (A+ Hana: Swordmaster/Master of Arms) (A+ Elise: Strategist/Maid)

Scarlet - Wyvern Lord/Malig Knight/Adventurer/Bow Knight/General/Great Knight

Selena - Hero/Bow Knight/Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight (A+ Setsuna: Sniper) (A+ Camilla/Beruka: Wyvern Lord/Malig Knight) (A+ Peri: Paladin/Great Knight)

Setsuna - Sniper/Kinshi Knight/Master Ninja/Mechanist (A+ Hana: Swordmaster/Master of Arms) (A+ Hinoka: Falcon Knight) (A+ Selena: Hero/Bow Knight)

Shura - Adventurer/Bow Knight/Berserker/Hero/Master Ninja/Mechanist

Silas - Paladin/Great Knight/Hero/Bow Knight (A+ Jakob: Strategist/Butler) (A+ Kaze: Master Ninja/Mechanist) (A+ Ryoma: Swordmaster/Master of Arms)

Subaki - Falcon Knight/Kinshi Knight/Swordmaster/Master of Arms (A+ Saizo: Master Ninja/Mechanist) (A+ Azama: Great Master/Onmyoji) (A+ Niles: Adventurer/Bow Knight)

Takumi - Sniper/Kinshi Knight/Spear Master/Basara (A+ Jakob: Strategist/Butler) (A+ Hinata/Ryoma: Swordmaster/Master of Arms) (A+ Leo: Dark Knight/Sorcerer)

Xander - Paladin/Great Knight/Wyvern Lord/Malig Knight (A+ Kaze: Master Ninja/Mechanist) (A+ Ryoma: Swordmaster/Master of Arms) (A+ Leo: Strategist/Butler) (A+ Laslow: Hero/Bow Knight)

Yukimura - Merchant/Mechanist/Swordmaster/Master of Arms/Onmyoji/Great Master

Here's my latest resource, which basically shows every reclass possible naturally and by Friendship Seal. Good for planning teams.

Working on it and typing everything up actually made me reconsider if banning either Life or Death OR Spendthrift was a good idea. I have a feeling Wary Fighter tanking might be dominant in the meta? We'll see when we play out more fights, I suppose.

Not sure how I could pull of the tiering thing by purely theorycrafting though tbqh? I can't even imagine a top 5 atm. Ryoma, Charlotte, armours? The armours become more numerous with Friendship Seals being used, too.

[Carmine Sword]

So I actually made a team for this if anyone wants to play a match. Might be useful just to test things out at any rate.

[Espinosa]

Aye, I was just about to say "lemme host a game or two".

Pretty sure we banned braves and legendary weapons, but what about killers? I recall Horace complaining about there being no detriment to just spamming those.

[General Horace]

pretty sure any unit with a -faire skill just oneshots with killer crits (with wta) which is pretty lame. You could try them I guess though.

[Quintessence]

Not to mention the bunch of dmg auras that exist in the game that give units like +10 and +15 extra dmg.

[Espinosa]

I guess killers are banned then?

Auras do buff defence too. Shouldn't Azura's Foreign Princess be active in LA too? That basically makes Azura a defensive buffbot with a bit of recovery thrown in.

Anyway, natural classes/skills+one friend seems perfect for the metagame on paper at least considering it gets everybody about the same number of skills (of course, not all classes have the same treatment... Apothecary gets nothing, while Ninja gets very little). I realised that besides Fuga, Gunter is the 2nd non-Corrin character to have 4 class sets to choose from with Jakob as a buddy. Gunter seems pretty useless though.

Welp, if Carmine and somebody else send me their teams, we could begin tomorrow, pretty much.

[Carmine Sword]

Sent my SUPER AMAZING TEAM.

[Quintessence]

Idk though, killers can be tested to see if they are worth banning.

Azura can be used as a buffbot but she's kinda fragile and has a terrible class spread. Amaterasu and Foreign Princess are a thing but not too good imo.

[Espinosa]

That's true. If she doesn't want to eat arrows, Azura basically chooses between Onmyoji/Priestess/Maid/Strategist, all rather fragile and locked to a single weapon type. At least her speed mods are good?

You can have huge crit even without killer weapons - A+ Rinkah!Charlotte gets 20 crit from Zerk, 20 from Death Blow on PP as well as some more when attacking a female. The real problem is the 4x dmg modifier - it's just too much. Braves/Legends/Killers should all be banned.

So, Carmine's team been approved and if somebody feels like playing, hosting could begin any time.

[Elieson]

I think the idea of 4x crit is dangerous for this meta, /because/ of the skills you can combine with them.

Kinda like how fe9!ike with ragnell is ok, but with oscar support is a bit much