link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Elieson]

Fix'd

[Espinosa]

My luck with Wrath is like Elieson's luck with Aether in the last game.

[Quintessence]

Hmm, so when Wrath/Resolve activates, two RNs are averaged as well?

[Elieson]

Turn 6


[spoiler=Teams and Rules]

Espinosa's team



VS

ZeeEmm's team



Ruleset:
- Maximum Stats meta, no boosters, no custom skills
- Shade active until 2 members have fallen, Provoke always active
- GBA-style counter
- NOJ Effectiveness (3x)

The Transformation Gauge belonging to ZeeEmm's Lethe has reduced by 3. Lethe's Gauge is at 11/20.

vs.

ZeeEmm's Lethe!NT (Claw) attacks Espinosa's Nephenee (Silver Lance+)!

9 dmg 98% hit 0% crit 0% Skill
(6 38 83 19)

Nephenee receives 9 damage!

Nephenee activates Wrath!
Nephenee counters!

Wrath's 50% crit

96

14 dmg 100% hit 0% crit 0% Skill
(6 82 57 68)

Lethe receives 14 Damage.

Lethe!NT (Claw) attacks Espinosa's Nephenne (Silver Lance+) a second time!

9 dmg 98% hit 0% crit 0% Skill
(70 16 24 24)

Nephenee receives 5 damage!

Nephenee is KO'd.

Lethe's Transformation Gauge has been reduced by 1. Lethe's Gauge is at 10/20.

--Result--

Current HP (Espinosa's Team)
Ike: 60/60
Boyd: 60/60
Brom: 55/60
Nephenee: 0/59
Ena: 65/72

Current HP (ZeeEmm's Team)
Makalov: 15/60
Astrid: 56/56
Jill: 60/60
Haar: 52/60
Lethe: 54/68


Turn 6 Ends. Espinosa performs next.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Elieson

[ZemZem]

Lethe~ <3

YEAH

[Espinosa]

Elieson, Neph should be doing 14 damage. If Beorcguard is equipped, then it only negates anti-laguz weaponry bonuses - it does not halve damage from Beorc units like Laguzguard does for Beorc.

Hmm, so when Wrath/Resolve activates, two RNs are averaged as well?

No. Remember the "true hit"? The two hit RNs is what it refers to, and not skills or crits or anything else.

I'm signing off, but I'll Silver Lance Makalov with Brom for the last time. Elieson, if you have the time, you could do this, then ZM's turn, and then we'll continue another time so that we're 8 turns in.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Espinosa

[Quintessence]

Quick! Someone, use Retaliate on Makalulz!

edit: oh ok

Edited January 8, 2014 by Quintessence

[PKL]

Espo, dont go yeeet. Check PM!

[Elieson]

Elieson, Neph should be doing 14 damage. If Beorcguard is equipped, then it only negates anti-laguz weaponry bonuses - it does not halve damage from Beorc units like Laguzguard does for Beorc.

I'm signing off, but I'll Silver Lance Makalov with Brom for the last time. Elieson, if you have the time, you could do this, then ZM's turn, and then we'll continue another time so that we're 8 turns in.

Curses! Ok, editting now.

I'll be able to roll that, then I have to go as well.

[ZemZem]

I'm faring better than expected!

Thankfully Nephenee didn't crit once.

[Espinosa]

I'm faring better than expected!

Thankfully Nephenee didn't crit once.

Yeah, next time I play I'll go for 5% crits instead of wasting my time gambling with Neph.

[PKL]

Yeah, next time I play I'll go for 5% crits instead of wasting my time gambling with Neph.

Never trust the RNG to go your way in FE, I guess.

It makes 2 of us that have been betrayed by the RNG now.

Edited January 8, 2014 by PKL

[Elieson]

Turn 7

[spoiler=Teams and Rules]

Espinosa's team

VS

ZeeEmm's team

Ruleset:

- Maximum Stats meta, no boosters, no custom skills

- Shade active until 2 members have fallen, Provoke always active

- GBA-style counter

- NOJ Effectiveness (3x)

The Transformation Gauge belonging to Espinosa's Ena has decreased by 3. Ena's Gauge is at 17/20.

Ena's Renewal activates, and Ena restores 7 HP.

vs.

Espinosa's Brom (Silver Lance+) attacks ZeeEmm's Makalov (Vague Katti)!

20 dmg 95% hit 0% crit 27% Skill

(20 7 75 58)

Makalov receives 15 damage!

Makalov is KO'd.

--Result--

Current HP (Espinosa's Team)

Ike: 60/60

Boyd: 60/60

Brom: 55/60

Nephenee: 0/59

Ena: 72/72

Current HP (ZeeEmm's Team)

Makalov: 0/60

Astrid: 56/56

Jill: 60/60

Haar: 52/60

Lethe: 54/68

Turn 7 Ends. ZeeEmm performs next.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Elieson

[Quintessence]

Never trust the RNG to go your way in FE, I guess.

It makes 2 of us that have been betrayed by the RNG now.

getting Sothe 1% crtkilled is the bessss amirite

edit: WAIT WASN'T MAK'S HP 15?

Edited January 8, 2014 by Quintessence

[ZemZem]

Astrid shoots Ena with the Brave Bow.

[PKL]

I bet she will tink...

BALANCED

Edited January 8, 2014 by PKL

[Elieson]

getting Sothe 1% crtkilled is the bessss amirite

edit: WAIT WASN'T MAK'S HP 15?

Uhhhhhhhh it's Zero now!

[PKL]

So, like, can Ena be defeated?

[ZemZem]

Changing my plan of action. I'll have Lethe attack Boyd.

[Espinosa]

Elieson, I notice that with Neph KO'd, Brom seems to have the same attack on Mak as before, but -5 hit. He should've lost +1 atk from one of his supporters no longer being there. Gotta be precise with those calculations, because players do check the numbers to decide what to do next (not to mention the changes in units' HP each turn). Doing much better than the first two turns though, haha!

So, like, can Ena be defeated?

Maybe not by ZM's current team, but in general it's not easy to say. Untransformed Ena loses 17x2 / 72 HP per round of combat with Giffca (and can be doubled by some other folks), can be Luna'd and Aether'd (not represented in ZM's team). Demi Banded Ena loses 30 / 72 HP to Laguz Lance Brom (no supports), 18 x 2 / 72 HP to Laguzslayer Zihark, 32 / 72 HP to Laguz Axe Boyd or 42 / 72 HP to Rexbolt Soren.

Transformed Ena w/ Full Guard seems a little too good at many things on the other hand - 45 atk is almost Tibarn-strong, 29 AS is fast enough to avoid getting doubled by anybody not named Naesala and also doubling Generals and other person's untransformed Enas, and 37 def rivals supported KW+VK Gatrie/Brom (who can be doubled, have less HP and do not restore HP).

I'd say Ena is about as good as Giffca and Tibarn in this meta, but I'm not sure if she's really broken. It doesn't hurt to keep using her in some of the teams to come.

[Elieson]

Ena 2gud

[Espinosa]

Also, I followed Quintessence's lead and had a more careful look into a possible Radiant Dawn metagame. Some observations about potential problems:

- Calculations of average stats are pointless because caps are rammed often for multi-tiered units, which is many of them, so we probably have to go for max stats with the assumption that all 5%+ growths result in a stat gains each level-up. All characters seem to cap nearly all of their stats that way.

- There's a big gap between the AS numbers between some characters. SMs and Volke double all Beorc units besides Ike, Sephiran and Lughnasadh Leonardo.

- The royals have ridiculous caps, e.g. Tibarn reaching 46 AS and Naesala 50 AS. There's no Laguzguard or anything of the kind here, so good luck taking these guys on. Giffca and Caineghis get 70 atk / 40 AS too. Regular Laguz like Vika/Nealuchi, Ulki and Lethe seem perfectly playable on the other hand.

- About the skills. This one is obvious, but, as low as skl/2 activations are, when they proc it's death for whoever happens to be the recipient.

- ...but at the same time they probably are proccing approximately never, considering 3 characters come with Nihil skills and Ike gains the 4th one when promoting, and all 4 can be moved around and equipped on different units. And all those other nifty skills - expect to never see them if we allow the movement of Nihil and other unequippable skills.

- All in all, sounds like a really unbalanced hyper-offensive meta.

Some good points though:

- Kurth, Ena and Gareth (Nasir dies to a breeze more or less) are all great support characters with their Tide skills, and who you place them provides some depth to team building.

- Anybody can support anybody (iirc), so you're pretty flexible with your support pairs, letting you produce some broken builds like Ike x Caineghis with +45 avo. The +avo supports could be crushed by +hit builds, Tibarn granting at least +27 to his partner, or +54 if he supports, say, Elincia. There's also Parity.

To be frank, it's probably a better idea to keep playing PoR and also play Sacred Stones and TearRing Saga. Radiant Dawn just doesn't seem playable at all.

[Nicolas]

Well, FE10 meta don't even look in half as bad as FE5 meta, which should be called sage emblem.

[Espinosa]

FE5 generally sounds scary because of Holsety, crits on counter making attacking anything suicidal (not sure about this just what I figured) and Awareness being on only two usable units (Mareeta and Trewd). I'd rather play TearRing Saga instead with all the shields/amulets and AS complexities and whatnot.

[Elieson]

I wouldn't mind seeing 7 in the mix as well, both max stats and otherwise. Nothing is really game breaking afaik