Jotari Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I agree. Tower of Guidance is where most of my beef lies, but your first point was one that always stuck in my craw in an unpleasant manner. All the sudden, Skrimir is totally cool with Micaiah's forces? Really? The line "No one doubts your gift, Micaiah." he says just made me go "oh wat." Sothe actually attempts to point this kind of thing out before the teams are formed and Ike just brushes it aside. The only conflict we see is Naesala and Skrimir. This is fine, but what about the Daein/Begnion/Crimea conflict that was just happening before Ashera's judgment? Ya know? Did you miss the part where Daein were being forced into the conflict and had no choice to fight before their population became statues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 it could've been a much less substantial waste if you'd have included it in the first place, instead of going into every topic blaring the "fe4['s story, gameplay, insert other] is shit" horn further, you keep effectively saying there's "nothing to it," when I'd think anybody who'd bother to call fe8 "Gothic" could pick up some shit going on in fe4 about I dunno, imperialism? Chivalry? Something more than "it's random garbage" fe4 has nothing to do with imperialism and chivalry isn't a mood imperialism isn't a mood either actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axie Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) To me a big problem of FE4 is that 1st Gen kinda feels like a six-part prologue to the main event that is 2nd Gen and the gameplay even lends itself to that notion with marriages and inheritance. (Which makes it all the more baffling to me that some - most? - people prefer 1st Gen over 2nd Gen, but each to their own.) Even the fact Sigurd is only tangentially related to Manfroy's masterplan could have worked better if the game wasn't visibly in a rush to get 1st Gen out of the way (as good as Chapter 5 was when Sigurd finally got actually involved in the Grandbell drama). Speaking of Manfroy: he's only not the weakest villain of FE because Beld is, like Banzai said, a derpfaced atrocity that also works under Manfroy anyway. His motivation is... to revive Lopt so he won't have to hide in the desert anymore, or something? That's as good as nothing and he doesn't have the personality to make up for it (like, say, FFVI Kefka does). Once again random 2nd Gen dialogue comes to our rescue when Seliph finds that deserted Lopt shrine in Chapter 7 and reflects upon how those people had no gods other than Lopt to believe in, but then the game doesn't do anything with that. Wasted potential is what it is. Edited November 16, 2013 by Axie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Manfroy is significantly better than whoever that guy is that is the villain of FE13, even if Trabant laugh all over him, or even with the fact that he messed up very badly in the final chapter I mean, fuck at least Manfroy does something on the fucking screen. That FE13 person does nothing except for failing, and then he manage to do something using a rather bullshit plothax and fail even more. But then again, being able to win against Chrom's army offscreen in the future is nothing worth bragging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizenberg Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 fe4 characters more memorable than any of the fe8 characters. lets see alvis, trabant, sigurd, eltshan, levin, leaf, ira, reptor, langabolt, manfroy, ishtar I'm glad you outlined the plot for me so I didn't have to because of the jank gameplay structure, gen 1 has 5 chapters and a prologue to cobble together a story, and yet there is no story, it's just a string of random occurrences some of which have some relation to one another also saying it's "just my opinion" goes with the territory, everything we're saying is just opinion, pointing that out is a waste of everyone's life oh there is a story. you just didn't understand it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Manfroy might have looked pretty generic but he did pull of quite a masterful plan that gave him perhaps the biggest victory for any Fire Emblem villain yet seen (alternate timeline Grima didn't actually do anything to earn his win meaning alternate timeline Validar has to get the credit for winning and we see him for all of six seconds in the opening and know nothing about how he might have succeed so well while his current incarnation fails so much). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted November 16, 2013 Author Share Posted November 16, 2013 fe4 characters more memorable than any of the fe8 characters. lets see alvis, trabant, sigurd, eltshan, levin, leaf, ira, reptor, langabolt, manfroy, ishtar That's debatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) Manfroy might have looked pretty generic but he did pull of quite a masterful plan that gave him perhaps the biggest victory for any Fire Emblem villain yet seen (alternate timeline Grima didn't actually do anything to earn his win meaning alternate timeline Validar has to get the credit for winning and we see him for all of six seconds in the opening and know nothing about how he might have succeed so well while his current incarnation fails so much). Trabant comes from the same game. Manfroy only manage to kill most of the Gen 1 and awakened Loptous. He did not win. Trabant not only manage to sucessfully realize his goals by manipulating pretty much everyone and their mom and their all father dagda, he also have his son still surviving by the end of the game, which is huge considering that every other villain's offspring ends up dead(everyone else), or one of their child is dead(One of Neir Siblings, Julius). Edited November 16, 2013 by Eradicator Boner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Trabant comes from the same game. Manfroy only manage to kill most of the Gen 1 and awakened Loptous. He did not win. Trabant not only manage to sucessfully realize his goals by manipulating pretty much everyone and their mom and their all father dagda, he also have his son still surviving by the end of the game, which is huge considering that every other villain's offspring ends up dead(everyone else), or one of their child is dead(One of Neir Siblings, Julius). I think gaining control of the entire continent and wiping out virtually anyone who can oppose you above the age of five is pretty significant win. Trabant killed killed an enemy king but he was still stuck in the god forsaken barren peninsula that forced is people to be war like. By the time Celice's army appears Thracia is suffering so much Trabant becomes suicidal, going into battle without Gungnir. I think Trabant is an awesome villain, better than Manfroy but I don't think he was really victorious beyond killing Quan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Travant's victory isn't really significant when his 'enemies' had the exact same goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 fe4 characters more memorable than any of the fe8 characters. lets see alvis, trabant, sigurd, eltshan, levin, leaf, ira, reptor, langabolt, manfroy, ishtar oh there is a story. you just didn't understand it oh yes, i didnt understand it shakespeare? no prob milton? no prob chaucer? no prob ts eliot? no prob pynchon? no prob joyce? no prob but FIRE EMBLEM??? waaaaaay over my head and for supposedly being more memorable than any of the FESS characters, can you remind me what Reptar, Langobalt, Ishtar, and Ayra even did? In fact, I often forget if Ayra is in first gen, or if that's Lakche, because they look nearly identical. Oh, and remind me what Eltshan's purpose in the plot was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 fe4 characters more memorable than any of the fe8 characters. lets see alvis, trabant, sigurd, eltshan, levin, leaf, ira, reptor, langabolt, manfroy, ishtar Reptor more momorable than Duessel, Cormag, Knoll or Forde?FTW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axie Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) fe4 characters more memorable than any of the fe8 characters. lets see alvis, trabant, sigurd, eltshan, levin, leaf, ira, reptor, langabolt, manfroy, ishtar As someone who doesn't have either FE4 or FE8 as the favorite FE game: lol @ the notion of Reptor and Langobalt being memorable, not just compared to FE8 people but AT ALL. Begnion Senators, as lame as they are, have twice the personality and more actually evil than those two. I'm not even sure how they made it to this conversation. I reiterate that Manfroy is the least developed/interesting main villain of Fire Emblem. Even the Demon King's dead soulless body has more of a motivation than Manfroy. Trabant is interesting but a bit underutilized so I wouldn't call him that memorable either. Alvis is more complex both in motivation and in actions, so there's that. Ishtar and Selena have more of less the same function in the plot; Ishtar stands out a bit more because she's surrounded by evil assholes, while Selena, not so much, because of Duessel and Glen. Still, I think both are absolutely amazing and equally memorable. I really like Sigurd, and I won't deny that he is one of the most iconic main characters of the series, but I think it's mostly because he dies (the only main character to die in FE history - he's our Aerith). Levin is also pretty important in 2nd Gen and his personality + Holsety carries him through his less important 1st Gen, so I'll give you him too. Leif is memorable mainly because of FE5 so he doesn't count. I'm not sure how memorable he would be without it because in FE4 his importance in the plot goes down after Altenna is recruited. (Also: you list Reptor and Langobalt as memorable, but not Altenna? what the hell man) Ayra is memorable mainly because of how badass she is because she has no impact on the plot after her recruitment. That can be said of many characters in many FEs, including FE8 (Gerik <3). Eldigan's development is all over the place and his death is very anti-climatic, so I'm inclined to say he's memorable because he's badass, too. tl;dr: I agree with Sigurd and Levin; Alvis and Ishtar are memorable enough; the others, not at all (except Leif because of FE5). Edited November 16, 2013 by Axie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizenberg Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) oh yes, i didnt understand it shakespeare? no prob milton? no prob chaucer? no prob ts eliot? no prob pynchon? no prob joyce? no prob but FIRE EMBLEM??? waaaaaay over my head and for supposedly being more memorable than any of the FESS characters, can you remind me what Reptar, Langobalt, Ishtar, and Ayra even did? In fact, I often forget if Ayra is in first gen, or if that's Lakche, because they look nearly identical. Oh, and remind me what Eltshan's purpose in the plot was? lol what a child. carry on hating fe4. i don't care. because im sure as hell that i don't want to waste my time arguing with these so called fire emblem experts. Edited November 16, 2013 by Aizenberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 In fact, I often forget if Ayra is in first gen, or if that's Lakche, because they look nearly identical. I'm pretty sure they're the same person, Ayra just cut her hair and changed her name, which is like the anime equivalent of character development or something. The same goes for Nanna and Lachesis, except in that case Lachesis bought a feather too. I'm sure there are other examples, but I'm too lazy to point them out. FE4 was really lazy when it came to face portraits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seo Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Well... I think FE4, then FE9. The scenario is very very impressive, I was for example, not of all expecting the end of the 5th chapter. FE9 is really amazing because of work on, with the laguz, the map, the politics, it's good at this side. But I think FE4 is really amazing, when you see the twelve crusaders, the **** sect, the children system which was a super new system, the countries are also well made, etc... I think that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 lol what a child. carry on hating fe4. i don't care. because im sure as hell that i don't want to waste my time arguing with these so called fire emblem experts. good, nobody wants you around anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadeuscho Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Again, think about when this game was released. Some of you are coming in with the expectations we have had since FE6. Fire Emblem and death on some level is about the death of faceless soldiers. Not every character had the development or was expected to at the time, so it's a very poor reasoning. So if someone were to say FE4 characters were some of the best of the series, they are clearly talking about the cream of the crop. It's why our discussions aren't Dorcas vs Moulder vs Ricken. It's Finn vs Innes vs Virion, etc. The scope of FE4 is impressive in itself, along with the type of story it was trying to convey. More than any other fire emblem, I think FE4 (and its midquel) shows the price and pain of war. Everything in gen1 is meant to build up to chapter 5's twist. oh yes, i didnt understand it shakespeare? no prob milton? no prob chaucer? no prob ts eliot? no prob pynchon? no prob joyce? no prob but FIRE EMBLEM??? waaaaaay over my head I think it's great that you've read all these as English major, but that doesn't mean you can't be wrong about your description about FE4 gen 1 story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizenberg Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) good, nobody wants you around anyway edit: nvm what i said. im an drunken idiot Edited November 16, 2013 by Aizenberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I think it's great that you've read all these as English major, but that doesn't mean you can't be wrong about your description about FE4 gen 1 story. I read most of them not as an english major @Aizenberg: haha what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted November 16, 2013 Author Share Posted November 16, 2013 you're right. carry on with your circle jerking! fucking elitist faggots... All because a few people here don't agree with your opinion on FE4 doesn't make them elitist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadeuscho Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I read most of them not as an english major oh cool. that's even better. I think a lot of people enjoy Lyon more than I did. I do like how he acts differently depending on which twin whose story you choose (and the plot unfolds a bit differently), but he still doesn't ranking that high as a villain. Truth be told, I don't like most of the villains in FE as opposed to others series. I like most of them midway through the story. I like the Black Knight in FE9 but not as much in FE10. I like Arvis in FE4 gen 1 but not FE2. My favorites would be Hardin and Zephiel, with Hardin probably being my favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 A lot of villains in FE are just evil, for either no reason or bad reasons. I think Lyon is the best antagonist after Alvis/Trabant. Those two were really sympathetic, they just happened to be opposed to your army. Lyon had good character development and works as a tragic figure, possibly it helped that the actual villain was possessing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizenberg Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 All because a few people here don't agree with your opinion on FE4 doesn't make them elitist. yes i know. i overreacted in a very childish way. sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I think the best villain in the series is Gharnef. Sure he's petty and the entire reason for his evilness is because of simple jealousy but goddamn it, he's just a great villain. A truly evil SOB that you just hate right from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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