Which FE do you you think was the most well-written?

[RJWalker]

SD's writing is the best though. It's not amazing. Only a handful of characters have lines and the plot is very basic but it manages to make it all work. Throwing in some fancy words works, I guess?

[Jotari]

Yes but this thread is about the writing and my point was that the writing in FE4 doesn't really bring the plot home sometimes, specially in 1st Gen, because it tries to show the scope of the story and the emotions of big moments while losing out on complexity of character.

In the context of the plot, Sigurd conquering stuff while Manfroy does his thing makes sense. But as the writing put it, it meant four chapters of Sigurd and the others not actually developing (despite marrying another important character even) while we are informed things may or may not be happening in Grandbell. I like the plot of it but it stands out to me as something that needed better writing than it got.

Oh yes entirely. That's the basic point of the initial comment I made today.

[General Banzai]

SD's writing is the best though. It's not amazing. Only a handful of characters have lines and the plot is very basic but it manages to make it all work. Throwing in some fancy words works, I guess?

IT WAS EITHER INTO THE ARMY OR ONTO THE CHOPPING BLOCK

its not fancy words its all about style like mmmmm look at dat parallel structure its making my mouth water

[Rapier]

Honestly, if FE4 had the same writting as FE5, I'd love that game a million times more. I believe FE4 had room for a lot of potential, yet the characters are portrayed superficially (for example, Sety is just another generic party member, when he actually did a lot of important things in FE5 that were only HINTED in FE4; same about Leaf, who acts like a wimp through and through in FE4... what about all the character building in FE5?). Yet I can grasp the hidden contents and the minor details of the story. I understand things are more complex than the game shows.

FE9 earned my vote, though. I love the writting. The story is so simple, yet the plot was done magnificently. We really tend to admire Ike later because we see he went through a lot of things, and that wasn't just because of the in-game events, it's because his character was well developped along with the plot. As a comparison, Micaiah doesn't even stand next to Ike in character development, even though she also went through a lot to liberate Daein. Actually, FE10 was a game without much character development; I remember Skrimir and Pelleas, but all the rest seem like generic units.

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

Honestly, if FE4 had the same writting as FE5, I'd love that game a million times more. I believe FE4 had room for a lot of potential, yet the characters are portrayed superficially (for example, Sety is just another generic party member, when he actually did a lot of important things in FE5 that were only HINTED in FE4; same about Leaf, who acts like a wimp through and through in FE4... what about all the character building in FE5?). Yet I can grasp the hidden contents and the minor details of the story. I understand things are more complex than the game shows.

FE9 earned my vote, though. I love the writting. The story is so simple, yet the plot was done magnificently. We really tend to admire Ike later because we see he went through a lot of things, and that wasn't just because of the in-game events, it's because his character was well developped along with the plot. As a comparison, Micaiah doesn't even stand next to Ike in character development, even though she also went through a lot to liberate Daein. Actually, FE10 was a game without much character development; I remember Skrimir and Pelleas, but all the rest seem like generic units.

Actually, I thought Leif did have a decent character arc in FE4-- by the time of his Chapter 10 conversation with Altenna he's coming across as a confident and capable leader instead of the little dolt he was being two chapters before.

I also think Leif is just about the ONLY Gen 2 character to have a decent character arc. Arthur/Amid and Tinny/Linda get a lot of screen time but it's not exactly development-- if Arthur inherits anything from his father there's not any sense of how he rises to the challenge of it. If you pair him with Fee (I don't), he's pining for Silesse one moment and then WHOMP, inheriting Velthomer or Edda or whatever the next. Ruling Freege doesn't even seem to be on his list of priorities, and he gets that by default. And then there's Lester, Delmud, and Ulster, who get less impressive characterization than their substitutes rate.

FE5 made some choices about what they wanted the characters to be, and so we actually get a fleshed-out Forseti!Ced instead of some random kid who looks AND acts like a carbon copy of Finn wearing Lewyn's hair. If Arthur had been in FE5 like that unused portrait suggests, we might have gotten some interesting development for him, too.

[Rapier]

Regarding Tinny, Arthur, Fee, Paty, Faval and Seliph, I believe they could've been fleshed out better. I see a lot of potential within them, at least. Julia's also a generic waifu and this irks me.

I wish they'd remake FE4 with Supports, but the chances of it happening are zero, obviously.

[Axie]

I actually think Julia is pretty good! She's a bit too waifu-y before she recovers her memories, but since we know Seliph and Julia are half-brothers, the fact she's a bit of a waifu towards him only makes things in the story more tense anyway, and I like her conversation with Julius in the Final Chapter.

[Rapier]

I actually think Julia is pretty good! She's a bit too waifu-y before she recovers her memories, but since we know Seliph and Julia are half-brothers, the fact she's a bit of a waifu towards him only makes things in the story more tense anyway, and I like her conversation with Julius in the Final Chapter.

Same here, but she could've been developped better before Chapter 9. Something that would make her more than a generic mysteryous waifu (Deirdre was better than her in that aspect). also, she is the only girl that doesn't get shipping

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Honestly, if FE4 had the same writting as FE5, I'd love that game a million times more. I believe FE4 had room for a lot of potential, yet the characters are portrayed superficially (for example, Sety is just another generic party member, when he actually did a lot of important things in FE5 that were only HINTED in FE4; same about Leaf, who acts like a wimp through and through in FE4... what about all the character building in FE5?). Yet I can grasp the hidden contents and the minor details of the story. I understand things are more complex than the game shows.

FE9 earned my vote, though. I love the writting. The story is so simple, yet the plot was done magnificently. We really tend to admire Ike later because we see he went through a lot of things, and that wasn't just because of the in-game events, it's because his character was well developped along with the plot. As a comparison, Micaiah doesn't even stand next to Ike in character development, even though she also went through a lot to liberate Daein. Actually, FE10 was a game without much character development; I remember Skrimir and Pelleas, but all the rest seem like generic units.

A wimp did not say "I'm going to kill you like a dog you are" to his. Nemesis, they instead run away and fail multiple times

Leif in fe5 is exactly the latter, a wimp. Meanwhile Leif in fe4 is a cold blooded avenger(for a lack of better expression. Finn seems to think so, to the point that he need to remind Leif about how important it is for him to survive), which while stupid is the furthest you can get for a wimp. Heck one of the most defining characteristic of fe5 leif is the fact that he IS a wimp compared to Seliph despite the fact that fe4 Gen 2 is basically the leif show until the writer remember seliph exist

Edited November 18, 2013 by Eradicator Boner

[General Banzai]

Leif in Thracia is less wimp and more easily-manipulated and naively idealistic.

Which is why August is the real hero of FE5

[Axie]

despite the fact that fe4 Gen 2 is basically the leif show until the writer remember seliph exist

I've seen some people trying to make this notion happen and it doesn't make any sense. Seliph is the main character even during the Thracia chapters while Leif drops out of the plot as soon as they step outside of Thracia.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Axie

[RJWalker]

Ced in FE4 is completely different to Ced in FE5.

In FE4, he's an impulsive youth, mad about his father leaving and has some character development along with Fee.

In FE5, he's a Gotoh clone who lacks any personality and has no character development.

Talk about a drastic change...

I vastly prefer his FE4 version.

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

Ced in FE4 is completely different to Ced in FE5.

In FE4, he's an impulsive youth, mad about his father leaving and has some character development along with Fee.

In FE5, he's a Gotoh clone who lacks any personality and has no character development.

Talk about a drastic change...

I vastly prefer his FE4 version.

Ced gets that development in FE4 ONLY if Lewyn's his father, though. If you paired Fury with Noish or Arden or any random dude, you don't get the tension and Ced just seems like a fairly run-of-the-mill Dutiful and Modest Youth, IMO. Same with Fee to a lesser extent; if you don't get to witness her anger at Lewyn she seems more generically perky and eccentric. But as strongly as Lewyn/Fury is implied in FE4 it's still optional.

FE5!Ced is one weird dude. I find him kind of alarming, actually, like he's already halfway turned into a Forseti-bot. I kind of don't get why Ced has fans who like him aside from Forseti being hax because IMO he's not... likable. Admirable, yeah. Likable?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Like as in personality?

Because Ced did not look half bad, being Finn with green hair an all(lol)

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

Like as in personality?

Because Ced did not look half bad, being Finn with green hair an all(lol)

Yeah. I mean, if people like Ced for being cute and hax that's fine. I just don't get his appeal as a written character.

[Celice]

Yeah. I mean, if people like Ced for being cute and hax that's fine. I just don't get his appeal as a written character.

Do you consider his agency as part of a "written character"? I found him a bit interesting in his leading of that mercenary-whatever group, his trying to save the children, his mentorship to Asvel and probably many others, and his interaction with Cyas as well as his own (somewhat reckless) assault of that castle.

If the act and the entity are exclusive for you, I can see how Sety can be an empty husk. I can appreciate him for what he does, as well as the differences between his roles and actions in both games.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Celice

[General Banzai]

there's also the fact that he kind of allowed his mother to die due to gallivanting around playing the hero in Manster

the convo he has with karin in 4x can be pretty cutting

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

there's also the fact that he kind of allowed his mother to die due to gallivanting around playing the hero in Manster

the convo he has with karin in 4x can be pretty cutting

I'd feel the impact of that more if I actually believed that Lewyn-- who seems to be pulling some pretty major strings behind the scenery-- would have let himself be intercepted by his own offspring and would've actually rushed home to Silesse to cure Fury's canceraids if he did encounter Ced. Since I don't find that likely, the whole scene feels more like an excuse for Ced to nobly feel bad over his own failings while not actually being guilty of the transgression.

Do you consider his agency as part of a "written character"? I found him a bit interesting in his leading of that mercenary-whatever group, his trying to save the children, his mentorship to Asvel and probably many others, and his interaction with Cyas as well as his own (somewhat reckless) assault of that castle.

If the act and the entity are exclusive for you, I can see how Sety can be an empty husk. I can appreciate him for what he does, as well as the differences between his roles and actions in both games.

I liked Ced far more at first glance-- especially the interaction with Asvel-- but come the end of the game he just didn't really click with me. Ced felt like part deus ex machina, part yardstick by which Leif can measure his own inadequacy, and part "Seriously, I'm supposed to believe this guy is sixteen? Nuh-uh."

Something about FE5!Ced just feels off to me, and if he's supposed to feel off because he's the next avatar of Forseti and semi-divine and all, that's cool but I still don't connect with him.

MODEDIT: yo don't doublepost

Edited November 19, 2013 by Integrity

[Celice]

I liked Ced far more at first glance-- especially the interaction with Asvel-- but come the end of the game he just didn't really click with me. Ced felt like part deus ex machina, part yardstick by which Leif can measure his own inadequacy, and part "Seriously, I'm supposed to believe this guy is sixteen? Nuh-uh."

Something about FE5!Ced just feels off to me, and if he's supposed to feel off because he's the next avatar of Forseti and semi-divine and all, that's cool but I still don't connect with him.

To be charitable, something about the entire game feels off to me, much like an unpolished, and to an extent unfinished, game. I'd hardly put it off as intentional, and perhaps consequential of its original development intentions (distribution via Nintendo Power flashcarts--Fire Emblem seems to be a popular franchise to try and incite sales. We're lucky there wasn't a Virtual Boy game ever in production).

[Soledai]

I'd feel the impact of that more if I actually believed that Lewyn-- who seems to be pulling some pretty major strings behind the scenery-- would have let himself be intercepted by his own offspring and would've actually rushed home to Silesse to cure Fury's canceraids if he did encounter Ced. Since I don't find that likely, the whole scene feels more like an excuse for Ced to nobly feel bad over his own failings while not actually being guilty of the transgression.

I feel this is splitting hairs here, but in 2nd Gen and there-in FE5 Levin isn't technically Levin, since Holsety took possesion of Levin, he's let's kill the Lopt sect instead what Levin would've done, likely went back home but, Holsety is kind of like the end justifies the means type of person or at least I got that vibe

I liked Ced far more at first glance-- especially the interaction with Asvel-- but come the end of the game he just didn't really click with me. Ced felt like part deus ex machina, part yardstick by which Leif can measure his own inadequacy, and part "Seriously, I'm supposed to believe this guy is sixteen? Nuh-uh."

Something about FE5!Ced just feels off to me, and if he's supposed to feel off because he's the next avatar of Forseti and semi-divine and all, that's cool but I still don't connect with him.

The one thing I think about when it comes to the 'personality shift' in Sety from FE4 to 5 is that since 5 happened during 4 before Sety joined the Liberation Army, he was apparently a stiff/bland and then during untold events that lead him and Manster into a sticky situation, he becomes more humble and self-aware, and feeling obligated to protect Manster, he stays instead of returning home

Well, that's what I think at least

Edited November 19, 2013 by Soledai

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

I feel this is splitting hairs here, but in 2nd Gen and there-in FE5 Levin isn't technically Levin, since Holsety took possesion of Levin, he's let's kill the Lopt sect instead what Levin would've done, likely went back home but, Holsety is kind of like the end justifies the means type of person or at least I got that vibe

The one thing I think about when it comes to the 'personality shift' in Sety from FE4 to 5 is that since 5 happened during 4 before Sety joined the Liberation Army, he was apparently a stiff/bland and then during untold events that lead him and Manster into a sticky situation, he becomes more humble and self-aware, and feeling obligated to protect Manster, he stays instead of returning home

Well, that's what I think at least

The FE4 playing guide and the interview with Kaga from the Treasure artbook kind of contradict one another about 2nd Gen Lewyn. Kaga's own quote was "This means that there's no doubt that the Levin in the second half is basically the same person as Levin in the first half. However, he's given a part of himself to Forsety," whereas the playing guide said, "The question of who Levin from the 2nd half is doesn't have a clear answer, but compared to the previous Levin his personality has undergone an obvious change. Even whether Levin's own persona is alive or not is unclear." So even the design team wasn't consistent about who was calling the shots inside Lewyn's head.

This sort of confusion means that FE4 automatically loses the "best-written" contest.

Nice explanation on Ced, though.

[Soledai]

The FE4 playing guide and the interview with Kaga from the Treasure artbook kind of contradict one another about 2nd Gen Lewyn. Kaga's own quote was "This means that there's no doubt that the Levin in the second half is basically the same person as Levin in the first half. However, he's given a part of himself to Forsety," whereas the playing guide said, "The question of who Levin from the 2nd half is doesn't have a clear answer, but compared to the previous Levin his personality has undergone an obvious change. Even whether Levin's own persona is alive or not is unclear." So even the design team wasn't consistent about who was calling the shots inside Lewyn's head.

This sort of confusion means that FE4 automatically loses the "best-written" contest.

Nice explanation on Ced, though.

I wouldn't say FE4 loses the best-written due to one or two character contradictions... on the other hand I'd say it makes Levin more interesting, due to this contradiction

Also, Thank you...?

I just considered the possibility before I presented my theory

[General Banzai]

I wouldn't say FE4 loses the best-written due to one or two character contradictions...

no, but there is the thing that it was never in the running for that to begin with

honestly I feel judging best written on a game that only has a fan translation is ridiculous to begin with

[Soledai]

If that was the case, then the topic would've been "The Most Well-Written localized Fire Emblem" but it's not

Localizers and fanslators do the same thing, so I fail to see how FE 1-6 or in this case FE4 isn't qualified to be in the running or why it's ridiculous

[DomesticHausCat]

Radiance for sure! It took a very tried and true story format of the series (hero's country is conquered, time to get it back) and gave it just enough twists to make it interesting. The characters all have great lines, the political turmoil between countries is great and all the supports are fantastic! And it's very fun to watch Ike's growth as a character from beginning to end. Not to mention almost every character got a good amount of lines via the Info conversations, giving everyone some life in them. Plus the way they handled the Fire Emblem itself in the story was extremely interesting. Awesome story and it was well written all the way through.